Bernt; You can post pictures in the photo section of the groups main page. Any attachments to an E-Mail would simply stay with the email. ? "Most" W&W #8 machines used a plain bobbin case without a tension spring, the tension being applied externally. These will have a tension adjusting screw under the bobbin cover plate just inside the end of the machine bed & to the rear of the opening.
Very late #8 machines used the same bobbin case & smaller diameter, but thicker, bobbin as the Early #9 machines. These bobbin cases had a tension spring mounted on the case.??
Holding the case in front of you with open side toward you the bobbin should be placed in the early #8 case with thread coming off the bottom to the right. When placed in the machine the thread will come off the bottom toward the rear.?
Later #8 & #9 again with open side of case facing you the bobbin should be placed with thread coming off the to to the right. The thread is then placed in the slot in top of case, beneath tension spring & double back to the left under the spring & out the forked end. Thus when placed in the holder the thread will come off the top Toward you.?
Later #9 machines added a locating finger to the top of the case with a corresponding slot cut in the top of the ring of the bobbin holder/Drop. The late #8's & All #9's used the same bobbins. D-9 machines used a bobbin of same diameter, but again thicker, as these along with a built in case & latch finger. Miller/TN?
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Where do the posted attachments/pictures end up? My previous reply had pictures of the problem spring and case.
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Hello, about the #8 bobbin and tension:
I wonder if the spring tip on mine is bent in? I struggle to pull the thread past that bend into the fork.
Someone said the thread shoul come from the other side into the fork but I don't think that is possible on mine?
Regards Bernt
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Thanks for thei info Miller. I think I knew these were D9¡¯s, seems I remember someone telling me that before, I just forgot.
?
Ken Jansen
?
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Show quoted text
Welcome Ken;
With 7-digit serial numbers your machines would be what are called D-9's. There are several minor differences between the #9 & the D-9 but the primary
one is the bobbin arrangement. The #9 has a bobbin case which is removed when changing bobbin with a hinged holder which W&W referred to as the Bobbin Drop. The D-9 has a built in case with a latch finger to secure the bobbin. The D-9 bobbin is also slightly
thicker than the #9, though both have the same outside diameter. The D-9 one will thus hold more thread. It can be identified from the #9 bobbin by the fact it has a single hole in each side down close to the hub.? The #9 bobbins does not have any holes in
their sides.
I also have an old electrified D-9 in a case much as you describe. As I also have one in a treadle & one handcrank I have just left it as is.
Miller/TN
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New Moderators Announcement
Hi to All Members;
I have just added two members (I hope Successfully) as Moderators for our group to assist me in handling computer problems.?
They are Paul Fox & Helen Howes.
Those of you who are members of the Treadleon group will recognize Helen's name immediately as she has been a moderator there for some time now.
Paul is newer to us but I have great confidence in his ability to do the job. In fact it is the plan for him to be the main one so as not to over load Helen, as we
all know she is already carrying a hefty load with Treadleon along with her own personal life. My sincerest thanks to both of them for pitching in.
I sincerely want this group to continue & it is just not wise to have only one person who can make decisions. This was the position I found myself in as we
simply have not heard from Dean in some time now. I know that all will give them your complete support & thanks to all of the Group.
Just keep the thoughts, questions, comments etc coming so we stay active.
Miller Fulks/TN
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Re: Intro, new W&W No.8 owner
miller wrote:
> You may already know this but Singer assigned their Serial numbers in
> blocks, Prior to actual production. I can give you the assigned date for
> all of your Singers except the 221K & the model 12.
> The only info I have on the 12 is that 1871 was the tear. The others are
> as follows;
> 201-2 = Feb 12, 1941
> 66-1 = May 3, 1916
> 99K = Nov 14, 1941
> 221 = Aug 19, 1947
Thanks Miller -- those dates all match what I have, from the ismacs
pages.
And yes -- the two-speed pulleys are familar, both from my 29-4, and
also from modern and not-so-modern power tools: I also use a vintage
Shopsmith table-saw/drill-press/sander/lathe/jointer/jig-saw combo
machine from 1951, with a three pulley belt system for three operating
speeds.
paul
=----------------------
paul fox, pgf@... (arlington, ma, where it's 56.7 degrees)
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Re: Intro, new W&W No.8 owner
Paul; You may already know this but Singer assigned their Serial numbers in blocks, Prior to actual production. I can give you the assigned date for all of your Singers except the 221K & the model 12. The only info I have on the 12 is that 1871 was the tear. The others are as follows; 201-2 = Feb 12, 1941 66-1 = May 3, 1916 99K = Nov 14, 1941 221 = Aug 19, 1947
The bobbin winder housing on the W&W #8 appears to be cast iron. I see no reason for it to rust more than other parts. Perhaps at some point the paint was damaged thus it lost protection.? Note that both the bandwheel & handwheel on the #8 have two grooves. The belt should be sized to fit the larger diameter on one & the smaller diameter on the other. It can then be thrown to the opposite set of grooves thus giving two speeds &/or power levels to the machine at the same treadling speed. Miller/TN?
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Welcome Ken; With 7-digit serial numbers your machines would be what are called D-9's. There are several minor differences between the #9 & the D-9 but the primary one is the bobbin arrangement. The #9 has a bobbin case which is removed when changing bobbin with a hinged holder which W&W referred to as the Bobbin Drop. The D-9 has a built in case with a latch finger to secure the bobbin. The D-9 bobbin is also slightly thicker than the #9, though both have the same outside diameter. The D-9 one will thus hold more thread. It can be identified from the #9 bobbin by the fact it has a single hole in each side down close to the hub.? The #9 bobbins does not have any holes in their sides.
I also have an old electrified D-9 in a case much as you describe. As I also have one in a treadle & one handcrank I have just left it as is. Miller/TN
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Re: Intro, new W&W No.8 owner
My 8's serial number and the price were both low, and it seems to have spent its life as a well loved companion, so, even with with the bum foot, I'm happy. And it does have some of the metal attachment inserts, also from a 9.
That rust is like the part is a different metal composition.? Maybe Miller has info on that?
The puppies are encouraged to pose with the machine!? What kind are they?
K
On Jun 15, 2018 10:50 AM, "paul fox" < pgf@...> wrote: treadle&gears wrote:
?> Welcome!
Thanks!!
?> You are very lucky to get the glass feet. I also have an 8, but only a
I knew as soon as I opened the drawer and saw them, while examining the
machien before buying, that it was a good purchase.
?> chipped 9 foot.
?>
?> Is your bobbin winder on the irons?
It is.? Oddly, it's the only part of the irons with any serious rust.? But
I think it will clean up sufficiently.
?
?>
?> 8s are really excellent machines. Maybe when your puppies are less of a
?> handful you can post some photos in the album section.? We love pictures of
?> these beauties!
I assume you're talking about sewing machines, but maybe I'll post
some puppy pictures too.? ;-)
paul
?>
?> K
?>
?> On Jun 15, 2018 10:27 AM, "paul fox" < pgf@...> wrote:
?>
?> Hello, all.? Many thanks to Miller for helping me get subscribed -- it
?> took a while, but I'm here now.
?>
?> I've always liked sewing machines, since watching my mother with her
?> old black Singer (whose exact model is lost to history -- perhaps a
?> 201 or a 15), and learning to sew on her "new" 237 (which I now own).
?> Twenty years ago I bought my first vintage machine, an inexpensive
?> 29-4 leather patcher ($75!) from a local cobbler so I could do repairs
?> to hiking equipment and motorcycle luggage.? What a beautiful beast it
?> is.
?>
?> But I really fell into collecting last year when someone offered up a
?> free 201-2 on a local town mailing list.? They claimed it needed motor
?> work, but it's been fine, and I love the way it feels and sounds.
?>
?> That started the flow:? a friend then gave me his grandmother's lovely
?> model 66 treadle, which I did a lot of work on, and my in-laws gave me
?> my wife's grandmother's two (!) Featherweights -- one black, one white.
?>
?> Then I started buying. :-)? I became enthralled with W&G chain
?> stitchers, and made a couple of somewhat naive purchases of those, but
?> I still love them.? I found an 1871 Singer New Family which I'm
?> working on getting to sew, and somewhere in there I couldn't pass up a
?> near-perfect 99K hand crank, even though it meant I had to build a
?> display base for it, since it came as just the head.
?>
?> And now I have my W&W No 8.? S/N is 265363, making it 1880-ish, I
?> think?? I was out of floor space for new treadles, but I'll squeeze it
?> in somewhere.? As far as I can tell, it's complete, including extra
?> glass inserts for the presser foot, and a few as-yet uninvestigated
?> attachments.? I've had no chance to work on it (new puppies will do
?> that), but I'm looking forward to learning more from this list!
?>
?> I've been keeping a blog, of sorts, about my machines, here:
?>? ?
?>
?> paul
?> =----------------------
?>? paul fox, pgf@... (arlington, ma, where it's 50.9 degrees)
?>
?>
?>
?>
?>
?>
=----------------------
paul fox, pgf@... (arlington, ma, where it's 55.2 degrees)
|
My name is Ken Jansen, I live in Missouri. I have been addicted to sewing machines for about 5 years. Over 100 have been through my sewing collection in that time with probably at least 60 still here, many are parts machines? quite a few
are for repair. I have a hard time turning down a needful machine if the price is right. I sew but mostly on treadles and doing heavy canvas and upholstery materials and some leather. I have 2 Wheeler and Wilson #9¡¯s One is in a treadle and seems to work well,
It could use some more cleaning and the cabinet refinished, the other is a head in one of those horrid alligator ?vinyl covered portable boxes that is just about in pieces. It is pretty rusty but it does turn.
The serial numbers are 2764917, and 2582907. I will probably take the one that is just the electrified head and turn it into one of my insert machines by making a block/insert to put it on and be able to insert it into the generic treadle
table I have. The one in the treadle table sews so smoothly that I bet the other will when it is done.
I need to stop acquiring and get caught up on the repairing part. The biggest problem is an outlet for the fixed machines.
If anyone has any dating information I would love to know better when these machines were made. Right now I have it narrowed down to I think 1895 to 1905 time frame.
?
Ken Jansen
?
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Re: Intro, new W&W No.8 owner
treadle&gears wrote: > Welcome! Thanks!! > You are very lucky to get the glass feet. I also have an 8, but only a I knew as soon as I opened the drawer and saw them, while examining the machien before buying, that it was a good purchase. > chipped 9 foot. > > Is your bobbin winder on the irons? It is. Oddly, it's the only part of the irons with any serious rust. But I think it will clean up sufficiently. > > 8s are really excellent machines. Maybe when your puppies are less of a > handful you can post some photos in the album section. We love pictures of > these beauties! I assume you're talking about sewing machines, but maybe I'll post some puppy pictures too. ;-) paul > > K > > On Jun 15, 2018 10:27 AM, "paul fox" <pgf@...> wrote: > > Hello, all. Many thanks to Miller for helping me get subscribed -- it > took a while, but I'm here now. > > I've always liked sewing machines, since watching my mother with her > old black Singer (whose exact model is lost to history -- perhaps a > 201 or a 15), and learning to sew on her "new" 237 (which I now own). > Twenty years ago I bought my first vintage machine, an inexpensive > 29-4 leather patcher ($75!) from a local cobbler so I could do repairs > to hiking equipment and motorcycle luggage. What a beautiful beast it > is. > > But I really fell into collecting last year when someone offered up a > free 201-2 on a local town mailing list. They claimed it needed motor > work, but it's been fine, and I love the way it feels and sounds. > > That started the flow: a friend then gave me his grandmother's lovely > model 66 treadle, which I did a lot of work on, and my in-laws gave me > my wife's grandmother's two (!) Featherweights -- one black, one white. > > Then I started buying. :-) I became enthralled with W&G chain > stitchers, and made a couple of somewhat naive purchases of those, but > I still love them. I found an 1871 Singer New Family which I'm > working on getting to sew, and somewhere in there I couldn't pass up a > near-perfect 99K hand crank, even though it meant I had to build a > display base for it, since it came as just the head. > > And now I have my W&W No 8. S/N is 265363, making it 1880-ish, I > think? I was out of floor space for new treadles, but I'll squeeze it > in somewhere. As far as I can tell, it's complete, including extra > glass inserts for the presser foot, and a few as-yet uninvestigated > attachments. I've had no chance to work on it (new puppies will do > that), but I'm looking forward to learning more from this list! > > I've been keeping a blog, of sorts, about my machines, here: > > > paul > =---------------------- > paul fox, pgf@... (arlington, ma, where it's 50.9 degrees) > > > > > > =---------------------- paul fox, pgf@... (arlington, ma, where it's 55.2 degrees)
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Re: Intro, new W&W No.8 owner
Welcome! You are very lucky to get the glass feet. I also have an 8, but only a chipped 9 foot.
Is your bobbin winder on the irons?
8s are really excellent machines. Maybe when your puppies are less of a handful you can post some photos in the album section.? We love pictures of these beauties!
K
On Jun 15, 2018 10:27 AM, "paul fox" < pgf@...> wrote: Hello, all.? Many thanks to Miller for helping me get subscribed -- it
took a while, but I'm here now.
I've always liked sewing machines, since watching my mother with her
old black Singer (whose exact model is lost to history -- perhaps a
201 or a 15), and learning to sew on her "new" 237 (which I now own).
Twenty years ago I bought my first vintage machine, an inexpensive
29-4 leather patcher ($75!) from a local cobbler so I could do repairs
to hiking equipment and motorcycle luggage.? What a beautiful beast it
is.
But I really fell into collecting last year when someone offered up a
free 201-2 on a local town mailing list.? They claimed it needed motor
work, but it's been fine, and I love the way it feels and sounds.
That started the flow:? a friend then gave me his grandmother's lovely
model 66 treadle, which I did a lot of work on, and my in-laws gave me
my wife's grandmother's two (!) Featherweights -- one black, one white.
Then I started buying. :-)? I became enthralled with W&G chain
stitchers, and made a couple of somewhat naive purchases of those, but
I still love them.? I found an 1871 Singer New Family which I'm
working on getting to sew, and somewhere in there I couldn't pass up a
near-perfect 99K hand crank, even though it meant I had to build a
display base for it, since it came as just the head.
And now I have my W&W No 8.? S/N is 265363, making it 1880-ish, I
think?? I was out of floor space for new treadles, but I'll squeeze it
in somewhere.? As far as I can tell, it's complete, including extra
glass inserts for the presser foot, and a few as-yet uninvestigated
attachments.? I've had no chance to work on it (new puppies will do
that), but I'm looking forward to learning more from this list!
I've been keeping a blog, of sorts, about my machines, here:
?
paul
=----------------------
?paul fox, pgf@... (arlington, ma, where it's 50.9 degrees)
|
Intro, new W&W No.8 owner
Hello, all. Many thanks to Miller for helping me get subscribed -- it
took a while, but I'm here now.
I've always liked sewing machines, since watching my mother with her
old black Singer (whose exact model is lost to history -- perhaps a
201 or a 15), and learning to sew on her "new" 237 (which I now own).
Twenty years ago I bought my first vintage machine, an inexpensive
29-4 leather patcher ($75!) from a local cobbler so I could do repairs
to hiking equipment and motorcycle luggage. What a beautiful beast it
is.
But I really fell into collecting last year when someone offered up a
free 201-2 on a local town mailing list. They claimed it needed motor
work, but it's been fine, and I love the way it feels and sounds.
That started the flow: a friend then gave me his grandmother's lovely
model 66 treadle, which I did a lot of work on, and my in-laws gave me
my wife's grandmother's two (!) Featherweights -- one black, one white.
Then I started buying. :-) I became enthralled with W&G chain
stitchers, and made a couple of somewhat naive purchases of those, but
I still love them. I found an 1871 Singer New Family which I'm
working on getting to sew, and somewhere in there I couldn't pass up a
near-perfect 99K hand crank, even though it meant I had to build a
display base for it, since it came as just the head.
And now I have my W&W No 8. S/N is 265363, making it 1880-ish, I
think? I was out of floor space for new treadles, but I'll squeeze it
in somewhere. As far as I can tell, it's complete, including extra
glass inserts for the presser foot, and a few as-yet uninvestigated
attachments. I've had no chance to work on it (new puppies will do
that), but I'm looking forward to learning more from this list!
I've been keeping a blog, of sorts, about my machines, here:
paul
=----------------------
paul fox, pgf@... (arlington, ma, where it's 50.9 degrees)
|
Hi All;
All of you who were having trouble with membership check your status. Even though I kept getting there were no pending members I did find a list of 18 names which were separate from the rest.?
These names did not show up on the regular members list. I checked their boxes & approved them all. The names moved to the regular members list. Hopefully this has all of these squared away.
I do now have a couple of volunteers to serve as moderators , now I have to work on getting them added, which should improve the group a lot. What wee bit of expertise I have is in things
mechanical, not computers.?
Miller/TN
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Lee; Excellent & informative post. I have never figured out why so many think the larger bandwheel of an industrial treadle will give More Power, when as you pointed out is the exact opposite.?
I would like to point out some errors in Alex's article.? 1st he states that Allen Wilson's Father was a Tory, fighting the British in the War of Independence. °Õ´Ç¡¤°ù²â ?³Ù?°ù¨¥/ noun
1. US an American colonist who supported the British side during the American Revolution. Assuming that the Elder Wilson did fight for the colonist he was not a Tory. 2nd there is no indication which I am able to find that the D-9/9W machines were made beyond about 1913, certainly not up till WWII. 3rd he expounds that W9 designation, I have never found this used in any literature at all, Singer catalogs definitely refer to their version as the 9W, not W9. I can't prove it but I think this may well be a mis-reading of the decals on the pillar of these machines. The decals though say W&W 9, not W9. The W&W is intertwined & I think it is often simply mis-read. This same decal is found on both the original No 9 & the later D-9 variation as well as the first Singer 9W's.
Alex has some very good info, but one does sometimes have to Sift it a bit. Sometimes it does seem to me he talks faster than he thinks. Miller/TN
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Stepping firmly out of genre .. Industrial Machines 1.You need to have an industrial treadle to peddle an industrial machine.? False .. White Sit Straight treadles and W&W treadles with the drive wheel outside of the frame work great. 2. Industrial Treadles need the big drive wheels !? False .? The run quite nicely with smaller domestic drive wheels (tweak the pitman length) or even dual speed drive wheels meant for 29K patchers work great.? Smaller size makes speed more responsive and punching power greater.? The big drive wheel is for speed (like on a 10 speed bike). 3. Because it is an industrial it is heavy duty and can sew leather.? Partially correct.? Built heavy for long hours of operation. Most cannot sew leather and many were designed for garment construction. Since the machines where built heavy it is not unusual to see them used for things they were never designed for. 4. Home sewers don't need an industrial machine.? Mostly false.? ?Most industrials can sew a thicker stack of cloth than a domestic and more room under the harp of full size machines makes bulky work like bags and quilts much easier.? Change out the clutch motor for a servo motor and have wonderful quiet control that your tailed domestic machine wished it had. Want to sew on binding or keep a stack of material under control try a Singer 78-1? needle feed ... inspired by the Davis vertical feed design.? ?Pics at ? 5. Singer bought Wheeler and Wilson for their Bridgeport production facilities? and their patents for industrial machines. True? (I read it on the internet!) 6. Industrial machines are big and bulky .? True? .? Most straight stitch machines weigh in around 50#.? The old clutch motors were very heavy at around 30+ pounds. 7. You need to have a mechanic in order to run an industrial machine.? False (mostly).? Models like the class 16 and famous 31-15 Tailor Machine were design with very few adjustments in applications where there were no mechanics (Tailor shop, dry cleaner, alterations shop). Very tough to knock out of time, and simple drive mechanisms.? Biggest danger to you and machine .. dropping the beastie!!
Pictures of my first industrial ... a singer 21w180? at? ? ?...? the W&W heritage? is right there on it's face for all to see!
Greetings from hot, rainy Florida
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This is fun!? I did not know about the D!
K
On Wed, Jun 13, 2018, 7:28 PM Miller Fulks < miller@...> wrote: Hi All;
Everyone has been quite for a while so thought I would start a general topic. Some of these will be W&W specific, others not. Feel free to comment or add other you have heard.
Myth #1; A machine can be dated by its patent dates, Wrong!
My W&W 1872 #3 treadle has patents back to 1850, My 1924 W&G Automatic has patent dates going back more than 40 years.
Myth #2; All rotary machines turn over Backwards IE the handwheel turns away from you, Wrong!
A W&W? #8 rotary, Standard rotary, Singer 115? rotary Singer 221 (FW) rotary, among others, all rotate toward you.
Myth #3; W&W made a model W9, Wrong!
They made a No 9 & a D-d while Singer made a 9W but neither to the best I have been able to find ever referred to one of their machines as a W9.
Myth #4: The D in a W&W model stands for Domestic, Wrong!
The D-9 was the only "Family" machine with a D in the model designation. Several of their industrial models had a D. A couple of examples are the D-10 & D-12.
These machines were all follow-ups of the same numbered models with some improvement designed & patented by Wilbur F Dial. Apparently the D was in tribute
to Mr dial.
Myth #5; When Singer brought out the Back Clamp foot on their model 66 they Copied the W&W foot, Wrong!
They may, or may not, have been influenced by it but did not Copy it. The W&W foot is not a back clamp but a mid-mount foot.
Got to leave for now, this is the last night of a Gospel Meeting where I worship. Speaker is a Gigantic man who measures Exactly 4 feet tall. His wife is kinda short though,
she fall a bit short of him.?
Add a few myths you have heard.
Miller/TN
gigantic man who measures Exactly 4 feet tall. His wife is some shorter than him though.?
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Myth #6;? The thread check is to add extra tension to the upper thread, Wrong! Depending upon the exact location & type some thread checks will add just a wee bit of tension, others add none at all. The purpose of the thread check is to prevent tangling of the thread when the take-up drops to provide slackness for the thread to pass around the bobbin.
Two things to keep in mind, The Tension must be between the spool & take-up & the Check must be between the tension & the needle. It can be (& has been so made) on either side of the take-up. The check may be in the form of a spring or a lever.
The proper tension can be given to the thread with or without a check. Some machines have been designed in such a way that a check was not needed or used at all. I have sewn on several machine on which the check was either broken or missing which sewed very well. Occasionally the thread might drop a loop around the needle which will result in a broken thread, but this has nothing to do with the tension. Miller/TN
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Deb; I remember Too Well several years ago I carried my #8 treadle to the TN TOGA. First day there among my Socializing Etc I tried to do some sewing on it, could not get it to make a stitch. I had previously sewed on it at home with no problem. I carried it back home that afternoon & brought something else for the next day (We meet for three days at this one). The next week I tried it again at home & much to my chagrin discovered I had been threading the bobbin thread backwards. I "Knew" that I knew which way to thread it, Another one of those myths.
It is no myth though that most W&W #8 machines have an external bobbin tension & will not sew if the thread comes off the bobbin in the wrong direction. Miller/TN
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Ken Jansen
Treadle&Gears