D9 Hand Machine Stud adjustment
Miller, Dean, anyone; On the D9 hand machine the free standing cap is held on a stud. A screw located on the side can be loosened and the screw driver used to adjust or rotate the stud in place. I assume it is to adjust the caps connection between its internal geared track and the gear located on the balance wheel. My question is can I adjust this to minimize the noise my gear connection makes? Or will this prematurely wear out my gear teeth? In addition, should I use fine grease on the gear teeth in the cap? Or should I use oil?, as W&W only mentions oil. I hope the answer to this question helps other handmachine operators. Thanks again to anyone who can help.
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Anthony from N. California
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Re: Puzzling tension discs.
Hi Helen; There is an old saying of "Never Say Never". That said however to the best of my knowledge W&W "Never" used the disc tension, always the "Wheel" tension system. Extremely early ones applied the tension to the spool but before the 1850's had ended they had begun using the Wheel method. This was continued throughout the life of the company & was also used on the Singer 9W machines which were built on the W&W design. I would say you are correct in your thoughts that someone has Improvised. You are correct in taking a full turn of the thread around the wheel. With very fine, Slick thread it sometimes became necessary to take two turns, but this is an exception, normally one is plenty. If the thread slipped without turning the wheel providing the tension, you simply took another turn.? I do not know why you would have to back the nut off so far to get the correct tension. When you took the wheel from the spare did you also use its spring. Perhaps at some point in time someone has replaced the spring with a longer one. It would seem doubtful they would have shortened the stud when changing to the discs, but I suppose it could be possible. Compare its length with that of the spare machines & see if that appears to be the case, though I am doubting it. I think a wrong spring more likely. Miller/TN
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Hello all, I am working on a D9 treadle. On dis-assembling the tension device to clean it I discovered that, rather than the joined tension discs I expected to find, there were two seperate discs. After cleaning and re-assembly I couldn't get a decent stitch. In the end I have swapped the discs with a joined set from a spares D9 model I bought for ?4.99 a while ago. I've wrapped the top thread around the top tension device clockwise from the right and am now getting a good stitch but the top tension has to be at it's lowest setting (the holding nut will fall off if I go any looser). I did try to tighten the tension on the bobbin thread but the screw won't budge.? I also had to take the small tear shaped piece that sits over the thread feed spring from my spares machine as that was missing from the treadle machine. Which makes me think a previous owner had to improvise here and there, hence the ?unexpected discs. On the other hand, maybe some models were made with seperate discs? Regards, Helen
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Re: Embroidering on the No9 and D9
I would love to hear more about attempts to do embroidery with a D-9.? I made a casual try the other day, stitch length to zero, and I tried out a rounded foot with two holes, a larger one forward of the needle hole.? Not much luck--thread breaking, impatience.? I wondered if this larger hole was to feed something like narrow soutache braiding through, and you could embroider with that.
At any rate, keep talking!? Liz in SC
On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 8:23 PM, A.V.S. <anthonysalazarjr@...> wrote: That would be great. I have 2, the New No9 with a mother, daughter, and parot-and the other one is of two servants/seamstresses fitting a dress on a women. Both have San Francisco dealer addresses stamped on the back which is why I bought them. I need to remove some photos from my album and upload some pictures in the future.
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Anthony from N. California
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Re: Embroidering on the No9 and D9
That would be great. I have 2, the New No9 with a mother, daughter, and parot-and the other one is of two servants/seamstresses fitting a dress on a women. Both have San Francisco dealer addresses stamped on the back which is why I bought them. I need to remove some photos from my album and upload some pictures in the future.
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Anthony from N. California
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Re: Embroidering on the No9 and D9
Hi Anthony.
I have not tired this with any of W&W 9 however I have a trade card where there is picture of dog, that was embroidered on a W&W.? I will try to remember to pull my album of W&W cards and scan you a copy of it.?? I have a some nice collection of W&W cards
which I do find interesting seeing the different ways W&W used them to promote their machines.? I am sure at the their paper dolls where you could change dresses was something many young girls in rural areas were asking mom and dad to acquire them when they
went into the city.
Dean
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Embroidering on the No9 and D9
I picked up a trading card the other day, and on the back it described the No9s capabilities; including embroidery. Has anyone successfully embroidered with ease on the No9? Is a special foot required? So far the only way I can think to try is to set the stitch length knob to zero, an use the Gimp/braider foot. If anyone has found an easier or more successful way I would be interested.
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Anthony from N. California
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Re: Singer 9w7 Bobbin Theory
Anthony; I found a copy of a Singer 9W manual on needlebar. An illustration clearly shows a flat sided bobbin having 8 holes. I therefore suspect you are correct this is the original bobbin used. As to multiple winding of a bobbin in spite of it not being a recommended practise I have encountered many bobbins so wound. in all honesty I cannot say I have picked up on a pattern as to whether it is more prevalent on bobbins with holes in the side. I have had bobbins of both types so wound. In fact I had one spool type VS bobbin which had at least 6 or maybe 8 colors of thread on it. The thread was old & rotten & I went to strip it & every little bit another color would show up. You could not of course see it until you uncovered another layer.? There is little doubt in my mind the 115 was brought out as the replacement for the 9W as it was as I said essentially a "Singerized" W&W design. ?The basic design of the rotary mechanism is W&W although it had many features adapted to it of the Class 15 machines. It used a very similar, though not interchangeable, bobbin case & bobbin, the direction of rotation for the balance wheel was changed to that of the Singer & the body was essentially that of a class 15 Singer. As the Singer class 15 machines were introduced while W&W's mainstay was the #8 I see no way it could really be referred to as a replacement for the 9W. In 1900 alone (5 years prior to acquiring W&W) Singer SN's record 135,300 numbers assigned to class 15 machines. Even after acquiring W&W Singer continued to push their class 66 machine as their "Top of the Line" machine which commanded the highest price. As soon as they had revamped the 9W into the 115 they began its production at Elizabethport & dropped the 9W from their line. Production of machines at the old W&W factory at Bridgeport was devoted solely to industrial machines. In fact to the best of my knowledge the 9W machines were the only family machines Singer ever produced at Bridgeport. I believe that the bobbins for the 115 were the ones I was thinking of which probably the originals did not have holes in the side. I do not know for sure if they were ever added to them or not. In my 115 I am using bobbins for the 20U which do not have holes.?I do suspect that Singer had a machine whose bobbins were adopted for the 9W but I do not know which model. Obviously it was not the 221 as it did not come on the market until 1933 or 20 years after the 9W was discontinued. Miller/TN
On Monday, August 8, 2016 10:09 AM, A.V.S. <anthonysalazarjr@...> wrote:
You cant really tell in the picture, but it feels and looks somewhat different then a 221 bobbin. Also, there is a album in the gallery showing illustrations of W&W bobbins&cases, as well as a Singer bobbin class 9w7 and its case(priced at a whopping $3.00!) . I have only seen 9w7s with 8 hole bobbins.
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Anthony from N. California
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Re: Singer 9w7 Bobbin Theory
You cant really tell in the picture, but it feels and looks somewhat different then a 221 bobbin. Also, there is a album in the gallery showing illustrations of W&W bobbins&cases, as well as a Singer bobbin class 9w7 and its case(priced at a whopping $3.00!) . I have only seen 9w7s with 8 hole bobbins.
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Anthony from N. California
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Re: Singer 9w7 Bobbin Theory
Based on all documentation, pictures , and my Singer 9w7(which had a bobbin in the case), I have no knowledge of a 9w7 bobbin without holes. My 9w7 had its spool pin jammed behind its faceplate, and thus had not operated in a long time based on the condition. The bobbin I found in the case, is different then a ordinary featherweight bobbin. The edges are almost sharp, not rounded or smooth like a 221 bobbin. Ill post a photo in my album of the bobbin. I still believe the 15 and or 115 took over the role of the dressmakers machine, and played a factor to the phasing out of the 9w1-9w7. As for winding the bobbin multiple times, I have found it works on the 9w7 bobbin without issue. I suppose its preference, likely when bobbins are scarce. Most likely a combination of cost, similarity, capacity, etc led to the change from the D9 to 9w7 bobbin.
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Anthony from N. California
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Re: Singer 9w7 Bobbin Theory
Hi Anthony; Excellent discussion. There are a few points though I believe need to be clarified.? 1st; The 9W7 is listed in the 1908 Singer/Bridgeport catalog along with the 9W1. The 9W1 wears W&W decoration & fits W&W cabinets. The 9W7 wears Singer decoration & fits Singer cabinets. I do not believe the bobbin had been changed at this point but that both still used the same bobbin as the W&W D-9 which was a bagel shaped bobbin. I have seen, in fact looked at one just this past Saturday, 9W7 machines which use the bagel bobbin, will not accept the flat sided ones.? My own 9W7 does use the flat sided bobbins. I have some older bobbins which are dimensionally correct for it which do not have holes in the side. I am not for certain what an original flat sided bobbin for the 9W7 looked like, my personal believe is it was some of these without holes. All recommendations I have ever seen from the manufactures themselves state do not wind thread on a bobbin which already contains thread, always start with an empty bobbin. Yes I have seen all types of bobbins wound with multiple colors of thread but I have no reason to believe this was a consideration of the change in bobbin type or of adding the holes in the side. The original Singer class 15 machine was the Improved Family (IF/15-1) introduced about 1879. This one had a built in bobbin case & what is referred to as a Long Beak shuttle. It was made in both domestic & industrial versions & was a popular dressmakers machine long before Singer acquired W&W. ?Along about 1887 a new bobbin arrangement was designed & the 15-11CB (Central Bobbin) machine was placed on the market. This one used the removable bobbin case & is the Daddy of the class 15 machines we are most familiar with. With the switch to the rectangular bed in the early 1890's it became the 15-30. The W&W machines along with the Singer 9W's were all rotary machines, the Singer class 15 machines are oscillators. The Singer 115 is a rotary & is essentially a "Marriage" of the W&W design with the Singer Class 15 machines, in fact at first glance when many people first see a 115 they simply think it to be a 15. The 115 was placed on the market in 1912 & as best as I am able to determine the 9W7 was phased out in 1913. ? My suspicion for the reason for the change from the bagel shaped W&W bobbin to the flat sided one is that Singer already had a machine in ?their industrial line which used a flat sided bobbin of otherwise correct dimensions. It was a simple matter to make the necessary adjustments to the bobbin case & latch finger & this then used a bobbin which was both cheaper to produce as well as reducing inventory. Just my thoughts. Any other comments, even if in disagreement to mine are certainly welcome, we are here after all to try to learn more about these great machines. Miller/TN ?
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Not many people are posting as much lately, so I hope to start a conversation or two. I wanted to throw a thought out for debate/second opinion about the Singer9w7 bobbin and why singer switched to it circa 1910. First off, we know that the first things to come to mind are as follows; 1-Size; The 9w7 bobbin is larger then the D9 bobbin, and thus has a greater cotton capacity. 2-Nostalgia; The W&W bobbins were very different from any other Singer bobbin. The 9w7 bobbin falls in line with other Singer family bobbins like the 66 class bobbin. 3-Cheaper; W&W SM were a luxury compared to Singers, which were more of an economy model sewing machine. The same can be said for the bobbins, the 9w7 bobbin was? simpler to mfg. Yesterday I came up with another theory. I was browsing the Singer catalogues available in the link section. In the catalogue, the 9w7 is described as follows; "Especially recommended for Dressmaking on account of the minimum of noise, facility with which the bobbin can be removed, the large cotton capacity, etc." In addition, page 2 shows diagrams of Oscillating shuttle and vibrating shuttle, stating that the oscillating system is "the dressmakers machine", while the vibrating system was labeled "for the home". Implying Singer divided their Home machines into two categories. By 1913, the catalogue does not mention the 9w7 at all, and replaced the Singer 15/115 model(s) for their dressmaking choice. The 15 and 115 used a 66 style bobbin with holes drilled in it and flat sides similar to the 9w7 bobbin. So for dressmaker designated machines, Singer provided flat sided bobbins with multiple holes located on the side. Two reasons why are; The holes allow the thread color, and capacity to be viewed while in the bobbin case, and the large holes are located midway in the bobbin, making it possible for users to wind multiple times on one bobbin, without removing all of the previous thread(I tested this today on my 9w7 and it works perfectly and evenly-Something 66 bobbins cannot claim, with a thread hole located next to/against the core).
If you read all of this you might be able to tell I have far too much time on my hands lately. If you have any opinions or ideas I would love to hear them. If you own both a Singer 9w7 and a 66 class/d9 try determining the color/capacity without removing the bobbin from its case. Try winding multiple times on 9w7 and 66/d9 bobbins and tell me the difference. I would love to hear other peoples experiences.
Sincerely~
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Anthony from N. California
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Hi, Anthony from northern California.
Do you belong to the Vintage Sewing Machine website? If so there's quite a few people that repaint different sewing machines if they are too far gone away. They may even have something in their files. That's where I got a copy of the manual for my Wheeler and Wilson #9.
This is Carol from northwestern California.
Can anyone who has repainted their D9 give me advice on the matter? All my machines have rough beds, and practically no decals left. I am strongly considering repainting all 3 of my machines. Most likely solid black enamel, which will look good enough for me, as I dot find decals necessary. Pictures of repainted machines would help a lot. My questions generally follow;
Any taping, disassembly tips? Any products in particular? Any procedures to do a thorough job? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance to anyone who is willing to help me.
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Anthony from N. California
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Hi Miller, that makes sense. Thank you for the info?
Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S? 5, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
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-------- Original message -------- From: Miller Fulks <mmf38@...> Date: 7/31/2016 9:35 PM (GMT-05:00) To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Wheeler_and_Wilson-Sewing-Machines] Dating no. 8 treadle Hi Brenda; The W&W #8 was produced from approximately 1878 to 1889. Unfortunately we have no SN records of them as we do on Singer machines. I have copies of a couple of Bill of sales that help narrow it a bit. Problem here of course is we don't know how long a period existed from them leaving the factory until they were actually sold at retail. First one is SN 327,542 & is simply dated 1883 2nd one is SN 509,994 & is dated Sept 15 1885. Your 5-digit SN is obviously much earlier than either of these. Also most #8 machines will be found with a patent date of Aug 27, 1878 on them. They may well have already had a good number of plates made up prior to the issuance of the 1878 patents (two in fact on the same day) so we can't really say it was made prior to that patent date. My best guess though is it was made no later than 1879. Miller/TN
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Re: Singer looks like my D-9
Thank you, Miller!? It's wonderful to get such detailed information so generously given.
BTW, I did finally get some 127x1 Boye #18 needles which do work in my D-9 (with a good bit of twisting and pushing!) So relieved.
Liz
On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 12:56 PM, Miller Fulks <miller@...> wrote: Liz; As Dean said this is essentially a W&W D-9 machine with just a few mods, one being to fit the Singer cabinets. As it does fit a Singer cabinet & has Singer decals it would have been I?believe made between 1908 & 1913. However I do not believe you will find an 1879 patent date on this machine. That date actually would be correct for a Singer machine, but is not applicable to machines made in the Bridgeport CN factory. This machine would be a 9W7 model. It does use the same identical feet & needles as a W&W D-9. As the SN is a bit higher than the 9W7 which I have it likely takes the flat sided bobbins rather than the Bagel shaped ones. Early ones take the regular W&W D-9 bobbin. Mine takes the flat sided one & it is # 3,185,801. If this be the case then bobbins made for the 301 & 221(FW) will work as they have the same basic dimensions.? On mine I am able to just get a DBx1 needle in past the alignment screw, I can't do this on my D-9s. It is a bit short but when pulled down sews as well as the proper 127x1/Boye 18 needles & is readily available at very attractive prices. I cannot say if this would work on another or not, it depends on the exact length of that screw. If you have a spare Singer cabinet these heads can sometimes be found at very reasonable prices. I know one is supposed to be at the TN TOGA ?later this week priced at $25.00 for the head only. They will fit any standard full size Singer cabinet. Miller/TN
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Re: Singer looks like my D-9
Liz; As Dean said this is essentially a W&W D-9 machine with just a few mods, one being to fit the Singer cabinets. As it does fit a Singer cabinet & has Singer decals it would have been I?believe made between 1908 & 1913. However I do not believe you will find an 1879 patent date on this machine. That date actually would be correct for a Singer machine, but is not applicable to machines made in the Bridgeport CN factory. This machine would be a 9W7 model. It does use the same identical feet & needles as a W&W D-9. As the SN is a bit higher than the 9W7 which I have it likely takes the flat sided bobbins rather than the Bagel shaped ones. Early ones take the regular W&W D-9 bobbin. Mine takes the flat sided one & it is # 3,185,801. If this be the case then bobbins made for the 301 & 221(FW) will work as they have the same basic dimensions.? On mine I am able to just get a DBx1 needle in past the alignment screw, I can't do this on my D-9s. It is a bit short but when pulled down sews as well as the proper 127x1/Boye 18 needles & is readily available at very attractive prices. I cannot say if this would work on another or not, it depends on the exact length of that screw. If you have a spare Singer cabinet these heads can sometimes be found at very reasonable prices. I know one is supposed to be at the TN TOGA ?later this week priced at $25.00 for the head only. They will fit any standard full size Singer cabinet. Miller/TN
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Re: Singer looks like my D-9
Hi Liz,
It would use the same attachments and needles.? Somewhere along the line Singer changed the bobbin style to one like that used in the Featherweight and 301.? However I am not sure if there is anything to say after X serial all used the flat bobbin.
FWIW I think that cabinet is one of the best looking that Singer made.? That may be as my first old machine I got back in 1969/70 was in that same cabinet.? Mine contained a Singer 66 with lotus decals that my moms, mother parents had brought new.?
Dean
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Thanks, Dean!? So do you think this machine would use the W&W foot & needles??
Liz
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Re: Singer looks like my D-9
Thanks, Dean!? So do you think this machine would use the W&W foot & needles??
Liz
On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 12:16 PM, Daddy Dean <daddydean1@...> wrote:
Hi Liz,
The reason it looks like a W&W is it is a W&W be with the bed redesigned to fit Singer cabinets, and Singer decals.? Singer acquired W&W in 1905, but it was several years before the stock of W&W head casting were used up.? Who ever dated the machine used
a patent date as that is not an 1879 machine.?
Dean
Except for the spool holder, this Singer looks just like my W&W D-9.? I'm sure some of you would be able to make interesting comments.? Liz in SC
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Beautiful 1879 antique Singer sewing machine. Minor damage to top. Make me an offer.
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Re: Singer looks like my D-9
Hi Liz,
The reason it looks like a W&W is it is a W&W be with the bed redesigned to fit Singer cabinets, and Singer decals.? Singer acquired W&W in 1905, but it was several years before the stock of W&W head casting were used up.? Who ever dated the machine used
a patent date as that is not an 1879 machine.?
Dean
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Except for the spool holder, this Singer looks just like my W&W D-9.? I'm sure some of you would be able to make interesting comments.? Liz in SC
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columbia.craigslist.org
Beautiful 1879 antique Singer sewing machine. Minor damage to top. Make me an offer.
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Except for the spool holder, this Singer looks just like my W&W D-9.? I'm sure some of you would be able to make interesting comments.? Liz in SC
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avs