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Introducing Margie
My name is Margie and I am a sewing machine collector.? My Wheeler & Wilson is a #12.? I hope that won't exclude me from the club.? When I bought it a number of years ago, I had no idea what I was buying.? It came with everything, but needles and one tiny part.? My OSMG was impressed that I had found it in a thrift store.? He was able to supply the part. ? I cleaned it up, took a needle from my modern industrial Juki and made a quilt. ?
I look forward to reading about everyone's machine(s) and how you get them up and running.? If I can add anything, I will. |
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Re: New member with 3 Wheeler and Wilson machines
I'm not sure f you were talking to me or not, but I measured a needle plate for you.
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length: 2.597 to 2.560" width: 0.759-0.766" distance to center of needle hole from closest end approx 1.175", hole is centered between sides Kelly in PA On 7/23/2019 12:27 PM, lyanne ornstein wrote:
Hi, I know this is a bit off topic, but I have a needle plat laying around that I believe was one for a #6 that I had at one time. It does not fit my #8 or #9W. can you possibly send me the dimensions of your #6 needle plate? |
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Re: D-9 needle
Hi Riley; The W&W needle has a shank diameter of 1.75 mm & a length to the eye of 38.9 mm, whether the round shank or the one with flat. A DBx1 needle has a round shank of 1.64mm with a length to the eye of 33.9 mm. Thus the DBx1 needle is 5 mm shorter than the original W&W needle & the shank 0.11 mm smaller in diameter. This converts to a bit over 3/16" on the length & a bit over .004" on the shank diameter. I habitually use the DBx1 needle in my #8, #9 & I also have a late Singer 9W7 which uses the flat-sided bobbins that will accept one also.? On none of my D-9s will the needle pass the alignment screw near the bottom of the needlebar. Apparently, this screw is just a tad shorter on this particular 9W7.? One does as you said have to pull the needle down in the clamp & also align the eye. After doing this I can tell no difference in the stitch quality with the DBx1 needle in comparison to a regular W&W needle. Another option on the machines which will accept the full-size shank is a 128x1 needle. this needle has the 1.75mm round shank, but the same 33.9 mm length to the eye of the DBx1.? The 128x1 is readily available at a reasonable cost but not quite as economical as the DBx1. As the difference in shank diameters only shifts the needle blades C/L by 0.002" (Half the thickness of a sheet of 20 lb printer paper) I have stayed with the DBx1 rather than going to the slightly higher priced 128x1.? Some people use a UY 118 GBS or GAS needle in these machines as it is almost as long as the W&W needle at 36.6 mm to the eye. The shank diameter is however only 1.52 mm so the needle shaft is shifted away from the hook by over twice the amount of the DBx1. I have fears that particularly when using a small size needle with lightweight thread it might result in some skipped stitches, so have stayed with the DBx1. Miller/TN |
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Re: New member with 3 Wheeler and Wilson machines
Hi All; Here is a link to a picture of the four basic feet used on W&W machines from the late 1850s on.? The caption under the feet tells what machine each was used on. Although I did not state it here the Singer 9W used the same feet as the D-9.? Judy, your #9 feet will fit right onto your #8. I appreciate the offer but have more feet than I have time to use. I have one set of feet with 6 digit part numbers on them so assume they were sold by Singer, although they are identical to my D-9 attachments. One exception to the interchangeability of the attachments is any which uses a drive arm on the needle clamp will not swap between the #8 & the 9s. The needle clamp screw is on the front of the #8 needlebar & it has a stamped piece which attaches to the back of the bar with an extension to the right to drive the arm.? When they introduced the #9 the clamp screw was moved to the left side & the attachment arm drove from there. This same arrangement was continued on throughout production, including the 9Ws. Miller/TN?
On Monday, July 22, 2019, 03:21:26 PM CDT, sustainability@... <sustainability@...> wrote:
i have some feet for the no 9, but only have a no 8 and cannot justify a 9... thinking to sell them.?? if you are interested, can send pics judy in so cal |
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D-9 needle
I was given a needle from a package labeled
GROZ-BECKERT ? 10? Nm90/14 DB X 1 1738 16 X 257 71 X 1 16 X 231 278 WH DB X 257 399,162 AC02 R 051293248 G that I had high hopes of it working - it did, BUT I had to drop the needle down a tiny bit to get a good stitch. It's an old machine, who knows what it has been through. I have needles off 'the bay' that claim to fit, but I will be happy with anything that makes it work. It still needs a lot of cleaning and TLC yet. I am looking forward to a quilt put together on it. RileyG |
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Re: New member with 3 Wheeler and Wilson machines
Hi Lillian Technically there were two needles which fit the #8, #9, D-9 & Singer 9W machines. These were the 126x1 & 127x1, also known as the 6N1 & 9N1 & Boye #27 & #18 respectfully.? The only difference between them is the 127x1/9N1/Boye#18 has a flat on the shank to make it self-setting. The #8 machines can use either, some #9s, but not all, can use either while the D-9 & 9W requires the needle with flat, unless they have been modified by removal of the alignment screw. This screw is near the bottom of the needlebar & is covered by a sleeve which can be removed. The screw is heavily staked in & is hard to remove other than with a bit of drilling. The #8 & #9 machines do not use the sleeve, nor do they have the alignment screw, so the eye has to be aligned when installing the needle. These needles used a short groove rather than a scarf. W&W had an or some industrial model/s which used a 126x9 needle, identical except it had a scarf rather than a short groove. These should also work fine in any of these machines using the round shank needles. Miller/TN? |
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Re: New member with 3 Wheeler and Wilson machines
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýThanks for the comments.I need to sort out the needle issue as well. There were needles in all 3 machines and I have some rusty ones that I'm going to try to clean up against all advice.? There are some pretty ones labeled 90/14 (looks like Schmetz) in the box of stuff but if the stuff is probably for a 9, then likely the pretty needles are for something else too. Now I'm thinking - should I peruse the files or play with the machines.? I really really want to make something with a machine from the 1870's. Lillian, near Cape Cod |
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Re: New member with 3 Wheeler and Wilson machines
Ha, Lillian, you have fallen into the fixing up the donor machine trap! I have done this several times - bought a head for parts then ended up keeping it intact and looking for just parts. I find it hard to part out an intact machine, but I am overrun with stray heads and am going to have to do it eventually.
I have the lovely carved attachment box with my No 9. I don't recall ever seeing one for a No 8, so you are probably correct. Buying a machine by mistake cracked me up. You are part of my tribe! Kelly in PA |
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Re: New member with 3 Wheeler and Wilson machines
Hi Lillian & Welcome to the Group; I will try & address a few of your questions. As to bobbins for the #8 machines "Most" of them use a bobbin that is 1 inch 25.4mm) in diameter & a [plain case which has no tension built into it. The lower thread tension is applied externally of the bobbin case. Late #8 machines use a bobbin which measures 22 mm (.866") in diameter & the case has a built-in tension spring. This same bobbin & case was carried over to the early #9 machines, but very shortly a locating finger was added to the case. I did a write-up on the bobbins & cases for the files section, it is found on page 2, also on page 5 of the photo section are pictures of all the various bobbins & cases used on the W&W family machines, & also includes the Singer built 9W machines. As to the carved attachment boxes, I have never seen these with attachments for other than the #9 or D-9 machines. The shanks for the #8, #9 & D-9 attachments are all the same "Except"; The #8 simply has a hole through the shank for the clamp screw, so the screw has to be removed to change feet. The #9 & D-9 feet are both slotted so the screw only has to be loosened & the attachment slid out the side. However, the slot is on opposite sides for the D-9 from the #9. Any of the feet "can" by a bit of manipulation be used on any of these model machines. The #8 was intended for use primarily with the glass feet so was not necessary to remove the foot itself in changing. While an insert foot was made for the #9 it also introduced more dedicated feet which did require changing, so made the detach & attach quicker & easier by the slotted shank. The #9 machines used the hinged bobbin holder with a removable case, W&W called the holder the bobbin Drop. The D-9 came along in 1895 & used a built-in bobbin case with a latch finger. The case was not removed in changing bobbins. The Singer 9W retained the case of the D-9.? On the #8 with external tension, it is "Absolutely" Essential that the bobbin is placed so the thread comes off the bobbin from the bottom toward you & thus up in front. If you put it in the other way the thread will miss the tension & you will simply get big Rat's Nests below the cloth. If I can help you with any other questions do feel free to ask. Miller/TN |
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New member with 3 Wheeler and Wilson machines
I'm happy to join this group - thank you.? I live in New England and have "several" vintage machines including 3 Wheeler and Wilsons.
I acquired a #8 head several years ago (with acquisition fever), and failed to notice that it had no bobbin or bobbin case.? The serial number is 81906 and the last patent date is 1876.? A friend at a New England TOGA has a working 8 in a cabinet but her bobbin and case did not fit in my 8. At an on-line auction I got an identical (but dirtier) 8 with a serial number of 304746 and a last patent date of 1878, thinking it could be a donor.? This one had all the parts but no cabinet. So Husband has built a beautiful cabinet and reconstructed the whole thing. After cleaning the donor, I may use it instead of the first one. Included in the heap of stuff with it is a lovely carved box full of feet etc, but none are glass so I wonder if that should have gone with a 9 instead of the 8? I cleaned the donor in a way I have never done before.? I slathered it with Gojo, waited a while, actually hosed it in the back yard, dried it quickly, and drenched it in Tri-flow.? I then used my dental pick to remove an astonishing amount of thread from the joint behind the bobbin mechanism. It's a tight area and I can't imagine how all that thread could have gotten in there - I saved it because it is so unbelievable. I'll wipe it down and oil it properly but it does now turn very smoothly. When it's neater,? I'll see if I can thread it and make stitches. I have a manual and a variation of same and am studying both. I got the 9 head at another on-line auction, sort of by mistake - I was trying for an 8 and it went beyond my limit so I got the 9 instead.? It makes perfect stitches but needs a bit of cleaning and, of course, either a treadle or a crank. ? I might be able to put it in my treadle mutt (also Husband made) but I'd love to crank it although a proper crank seems unlikely unless I can figure a way to get a Singer crank to work with shims or something.? I'm still trying to learn about D's and W's but I think my manual is the right one. I've looked through the site somewhat and expect to learn a lot. Lillian, near Cape Cod |
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Re: Serial Number and needles
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýI have also purchased other needles from Jon and he has been most helpful.? Susan ? From:
[email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Michael
Kendall via Groups.Io ? ? Hello group, ? ? I have purchased quite a few of the 127x1 needles from Jon.? He is a really awesome person to work with.? I purchased only size 19 from him which is perfect for ticket 30/jeans thread and was extremely grateful to have found him.? I've also purchased other needles from him that would have been near impossible to find elsewhere.? Jon is a great guy. ? Best regards, Mike |
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Re: Serial Number and needles
Hello group, ? I have purchased quite a few of the 127x1 needles from Jon.? He is a really awesome person to work with.? I purchased only size 19 from him which is perfect for ticket 30/jeans thread and was extremely grateful to have found him.? I've also purchased other needles from him that would have been near impossible to find elsewhere.? Jon is a great guy. Best regards, Mike |
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Re: Serial Number and needles
For everyone who has a W&W D-9 sewing machine needles are available through: Jon Helig ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?930 Coombs Rd ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Millville, NJ 08332 He is also in the Facebook group for Wheeler and Wilson ? ? ? ? ?Carol of northern California On Jul 18, 2019 8:16 PM, "Miller Fulks" <mmf38@...> wrote:
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Re: Serial Number and needles
William is spot on that it is a D-9. The D-9 machines all had a 7 digit serial number with the first digit being a 2, They began for some reason around 2,2xx,xxx & went up into the 2,9xx,xxx numbers. The D in the model was for Wilbur Dial who designed the new bobbin arrangement & patented it in 1892. It was first used on the #11 & then in 1895 the #9 was upgraded to use the new bobbins. The interesting thing is the D appeared only in models which were already in existence & received some upgrade designed by Dial. When he played a part in the design of a new model, as in the #11 the D was not used in the model designation.? For many years it was told the D stood for domestic. We now know that to be a myth. First W&W used the term Family machines rather than domestic so it should have been an F-9 on that premise. More importantly, though is the D-9 was the only family machine to use the D, while there were several industrial models which used it. A general rule of thumb for a Rough estimate of the date on a D-9 is to take the serial number & subtract 2,200,000 from it & divide the result by 75,000, Add that number to 1895 & it will give you an approximate date. Thus 2.791,561 - 2,200,000 = 591,561.? 591561 ¡Â? 75,000 gives 7.88 so call it 8. 1895 + 8 gives a date of 1903 ¡À a year. 127x1 is the correct needle. The Boye #18 needle is a correct substitute for this needle. I still have some of each so have not looked further "Yet". May have to soon. In my #8 & #9 machines which used the 126x1 round shank needle, I use a DBx1. It will not pass the locating screw on most D-9 machines, though my Singer 9W7 will barely accept one. This needle has a 1.64 mm diameter shank as opposed to the 1.75 mm shank of the originals. After being pilled down until the thread is picked up by the hook it sews just as well as an original, at least in every task I have put mine to. Miller/TN ? |
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Re: Bobbins
I did not type those question marks. I tabbed to make the measurements stand out and it came through as question marks.
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Kelly On 7/18/2019 5:44 PM, Kelly Pakes wrote:
I measured four W&W #6 bobbins: |
RileyG
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