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Hello, All!

A good friend gave me her aunt's treadle Wheeler and Wilson that originally reigned on a sheep ranch in Oregon for several years. It has the serial number of 2341945 and the last patent on it is 8/18/1885.? There is an S in the middle of the WW's so I wonder if it is a nod to Singer. It has the coffin top. This machine runs well now that I added a belt. I have rubbed sewing machine oil on it. What is a best way to get rust off the plate? Way back when, people used to soak machines in kerosene to clean them up.? Would that be appropriate for this machine?

Can I brighten up the gold lettering? Since this machine's cabinet has spent the last several years holding potted plants as a living room decorative, how do I refinish the water rings left on the top board and the splinters on the edges?

How hard is it to get needles? Can these needles be sharpened?? Has anyone considered creating them via a company like Shapeways that mades 3D copies of designs sent to them?

?I have another treadle machine, a 1910 Singer Cabinet model I have had for several years.? I am looking forward to exploring how this Wheeler and Wilson compares to it. Ironically, my dad threw away the two treadle machines at the house when he became in charge, saying that nobody would be interested in them now that electricity had come to the farm.

Thank you for creating this group and letting me join.?

Betty Fitzsimmons

I finally posted the image of the lid support in my album in the photos section. A family emergency prevented me from doing it sooner. There is another album 'W&W Parlor Cabinet' on page 8 that shows the door and lid support complete and in position. I ordered screws online that I believe are correct, or at least close enough. If the screw is the right fit, all I need to find is a piece of oak to make the new support out of.?
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Anthony from N. California

there are a number of companies that make reproductions, posted online..
one is:

judy in so cal
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Brilliant Trick Melts Belly Fat Overnight (Do This Tonight)
Celebrity Local

Hi Group,
I am looking into making a new lower support/stopper for the door of my cabinet. The original was removed for some reason, leaving the weight of the lid and door on the hinges. Luckily the lid support at top is still intact, so I have a similar original to go by when recreating the missing one. My biggest issue is finding the correct type of screw. If anyone should happen to have a spare cabinet screw the right size that they would be willing to sell or trade I would greatly appreciate it.

I am going to remove the screw for the top support to measure and take pictures tonight. Thank you in advance to anyone who can help me.
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Anthony from N. California

Hi Miller,
I wish we had more information on Mr.Dial while he worked with/for W&W and after Singer took over. When did singers oscillating hook (singer66) come out? It would be interesting if W&W used "vertical hook" in their advertisements when Singer used "Oscillating hook". I have yet to find any documentation in regards to the price of the extra attachments and attachment box. I saw a listing once for a D9 that had the extra attachments and a $5 W&W receipt in the box. Maybe it was for the attachment set, or just a hire purchase plan. It didnt have any details filled in beyond the price.

Does anyone know the original price for singers 27, 66? It would be nice to compare Singers prices and that of W&W.
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Anthony from N. California

Hi Anthony;
Thanks for the price listing, interesting.
I am not truly sure if W&W ever listed these machines as a D-9 in their catalogs, manuals, advertising & etc. They did mark the right slide plate with the D-9 mark, along with a last patent of Aug 2, 1892. The D would seem to be for a designer for W&W named Wilbur F Dial. There are some industrial models with a D in their model No & all appear to have some improved feature patented by Mr Dial. The major factor on the D-9 was the new bobbin arrangement with the built in case & latch finger, rather than the older bobbin Drop with removable case. This bobbin arrangement had been first used on the #11. The #11 had not previously existed & does not carry the D designation. It seems that only existing models which had received some significant improvement patented my Mr Dial had the D applied.
Miller/TN

I pulled out a w&w paper pamphlet I have and wanted to post the prices for the machines. Just in case some people do not know the exact price of their machine. Based on the types of cabinets and testimonials, I believe it dates to circa 1898. ?This advertisment is most relevant to the West Coast, as it was distributed and stamped such by the Main Office in San Francisco. The East Coast may have had different prices and cabinets available.
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Prices and cabinets are listed in order as follows;
3 Drawer coffin top, decorated and embossed $60
5 Drawer coffin top, ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?" ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?$65
7 Drawer coffin top, ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?" ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?$70
"Drop Head Machines"
5 Drawer Drop-head, ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? " ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?$70
"Cabinet machines"
Embossed cabinet, ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?$75
Library cabinet, ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? $80
Mirror Cabinet, ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?$85
"Tailoring Machines"
D-12, 2 drawer and 2 leaves, leather ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? $65
No.15, ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?" ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?, cloth ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? $65
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W&W at this time was using "No.9" instead of "D9" to advertise the domestic machines, even though the wood-cuts and descriptions are for the improved D9. This advertisement uses V.H. (Vertical Hook) to describe the machines as well. The makers of the "Celebrated Victor Shirt" state that the old style sewing machines does for the No.9 "as the Horse Car does to the electric". This and another testimonial by one woman who had owned a No.9 for ten years narrows the date no earlier than 1898. Since the first No.9s came out in 1888.
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Anthony from N. California

Miller,
Thanks you for the information on the slide plate. ?I am considering buying a #9 head on my local Craigslist that's for sale for $30. ?It has the smooth plate on it. ?I don't think I am missing any other parts but for $30 it may be a fairly cheap way to get the part I need. ?I don't really want another machine around the house but perhaps I could sell some of the other parts. ?That idea makes me a bit sad but the machine has already lost it's treadle parts & cabinet. ?Not quite sure what to do.

My Mother-in-law to going to ask the previous family member who had the machine if they know the family history of the machine. ?I know the machine goes back 3 generations but it would be neat to learn if the machine goes back farther to the original owner in the 1890s. ?It's pretty neat that these old sewing machines can still be used today. ?It makes you wonder about all the people that have used it and wonder what items they made.

I've decided that I probably will never finish my WW cabinet and machine, so am prepared to sell.? If anyone is in the SE AZ, or NM, West TX or So CA area and is willing to pick up this machine let me know off list.
I won't be shipping as this puppy is HEAVY!! I have pics in the Kathy in Tucson photos. It has attachments, new belt, and does work!?
This list gets first choice before I list it publicly.?

Kathy in Tucson

Welcome Kim;
The #9 machine has the smooth plate, while the D-9 has the one with the finger hole cutout. The rolled down one actually protrudes slightly beyond the bed & has a rolled edge which is grasped by the fingers.
As a general rule the two plates are of a different width where they fit the machine bed, thus are not interchangeable. That said I do have a very early D-9 which uses a plate which is sized the same, thus interchangeable with, the #9 plate. It does have the finger hole rather than the smooth top with rolled edge.
I would have to double check to be sure but as I recall the #8 plate would not be interchangeable.
With the 1890 patent date your machine would have been built between 1890 & 1895, at which time the D-9 replaced it. I have a #9 which I acquired from the Granddaughter of the original owner. She knows her Grandmother married in a 1892 & that she acquired it after she was married, but doesn't know how long afterward. Its SN is 229,218.
All #9 machines have a SN of 6 digits or less, while all D-9's have a 7 digit number which begins with either a 2 or 3.
The #9 is a great machine & they sew very well indeed. Do feel free to ask any questions which may arise. Sharing information is our sole purpose in being here.
Miller/TN

Hello,
I am new to the group and new to treadle machines. ? Thanks for the add - I am hoping to learn more.
My Mother-in-law is offering me a No. 9 treadle machine that is a family heirloom. ?Overall, I think the machine is in good condition with a bit of dirt and minor rust. ?I am noticing that the slide plate is missing. ?I have looked other no. 9 machine online and there is seems to be a of couple different designs - one that is smooth and one that has a finger hole? ?Are these interchangeable? ?What about a slide plate from a no. 8 or a D-9. ?Would these work on this machine? ?The serial number is 280083 and the last patent date is 1890. ?I am adding a couple photos that I took today. ?I am excited to try to get this machine in working order and hope I can do some sewing on it as well. ?Thanks again!
Kim W

Thanks much, Miller. ? Appreciate all the info. ? ?


Sent from my iPad?

Hi Kay;
In picture T of your album you show the bobbin case as having an Aug 18, 1885 patent date. The SN of your machine denotes a much earlier date than this.
The earlier #8 "Only" bobbin measures 1.0 inch in diameter, the late #8 & all #9 bobbins are about .866" or just a bit under 7/8 of an inch. The 1 inch bobbin will not fit inside this case. All indications are you have the regular #9 bobbin, though as mentioned it was introduced on the very late #8's.
My early #9 @ SN 21,041 uses this identical holder, case & bobbin. Quite early on a positioning finger was added to the case & a notch had to be cut in the upper ring of the holder to accommodate the finger. The holder & case you picture have neither the notch not the finger, so this would indicate they are from an 1885 to around 1890 date. I can only believe the holder,case & bobbin have been switched out for the original after the machine left the factory. I suspect the hook is likely the original built for the larger case & bobbin, this may also account for some of the rattle.
A bobbin case of mine with the positioning finger carries patent dates of Oct 23, '86 & Aug 18, 88. The holder has no markings at all.
Miller/TN

I added a photo to my album on page 4 of the hook (photo H). ?It's stamped "8" in the recessed part. ?I've noticed researching this online is kinda hard because it seems a lot of the 8s are like mine, and have various degrees of upgrades and replacements.

Hi Mary;
Your attachment set is for a #9 machine. I am giving a link to a picture of 4 W&W feet from our photo albums.
left to right the first one is for the curved needle machines. 2nd is for a #8, 3rd is for the #9 & 4th is for a D-9. Note that dimensionally the shank is the same for the #8, #9 & D-9 thus they can be switched with the difference in the method of changing. To use the #8 foot on any model you have to remove the clamp screw in order to remove or insert a foot. For the #9 you simply loosen the screw & insert or remove the foot from the right side while on the D-9 it is done from the left side. The D-9 presser bar will accept a foot from either the left or right. The #9 bar will accept a foot only from the right unless you remove the thread cutter.
Note that during the #8 & #9 era most all the attachments were made to fit the cleft foot, same as the glass inserts so the foot itself did not have to be removed for every attachment change. With the D-9 most all the attachments carried their own shank most were equipped with an all metal straight stitch foot so the glass inserts seem to have been gradually phased out during this 1895-1905 era.
Miller/TN

i recently purchased a Wheeler & Wilson 9 tin with?
attachments in it. ?I'm wondering if they are for an
early 9. ?Or what they are? ?Photos are at




Sent from my iPad?

Hi K;
Yes, SN matches so this is the original plate on the machine. Bobbin holder has definitely been changed out for the latest style. I do not know of any site showing the proper parts for these machines. In our photo section are pictures of two early #8s which are both still earlier than yours. One of these albums is named SteveH's early number 8 & the other Steve's early WW8. Neither of these machines yet have the stitch control on the bed, not the screw adjusted tension nor a hinged bobbin holder. Note that these both had a big knurled headed screw to attach the bobbin holder so it could be loosened by hand to slide back for changing the bobbin.
The picture of the hinged bobbin holder I linked to was from an online manual from needlebar's web site. You can access the entire manual by going to this link;

When this page opens down near the bottom click on Needlebar Original Site. When that page opens at the top you will find online manuals. click on that & a page of manual listings will come up. Scroll down till you come to W&W 8 treadle & hand.
I had "Assumed" that when the switch was made to the newer style bobbin case & holder that the hook had to be changed also thus felt the newer style would not be compatible with the older machines. I have a spare holder of the later type so for curiosities sake am going to have to try this & see how it works. I don't think it will even be necessary to completely remove the adjusting screw, just back it up till all tension is removed.
Miller/TN