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Late 8 early 9 bobbin and case. ?Does this mean I can use #9 bobbins? The nice bobbin in the pictures was in a drawer, the one in the machine when I got it was actually broken so I tossed it out. ?I was wondering which bobbin it took. ?I got the impression from another source this was an 8 only.

The presser bar is not the problem. The presser bar is not meant to adjust left or right. The regulator is designed to be a thumb screw type adjustment and a oil cup. The other ones are just oil cups as well. Sounds like adjusting your needle bar will solve the needle rubbing.

In regards to you bobbin case, your photos show you have the late No8/early No9 case and holder. This type of holder is loud on my No9 as well. You can adjust it inwards as Miller stated. To insure enough thread clearance to sew, place a empty bobbin in the case and thread the upper only. After placing bobbin in case, between holder and hook, Lightly hold your upper thread the same as pulling the bobbin thread up when preparing to sew. Gently run the machine by hand and observe the hook grab the thread as the needle goes down, and up again. Keep holding the thread and it will not bunch up under the machine, as there is no bobbin thread. The hook will just throw it off for the next cycle of the needle coming down. You dont want your thread getting pinched between the holder and the smooth of the bobbin case, so adjust the holder left or right accordingly.?
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Anthony from N. California

I added a photo album of my #8.

It does have a bobbin case. ?The bobbin fits perfectly, and the whole assembly is rattling around. ?I adjusted the screw on the retainer, and I will have to keep experimenting to get it just right. ?

I checked the needle bar height and it looks like it was lowered at some point (There is a dirt ring at a higher spot on it and some tool marks). ?

The new thing I discovered is that if I remove the presser bar regulator from the top, the foot moves to the left and the needle clears the hole. ?I haven't figured out yet how to make it stay in that position with the regulator screwed in, but it looks like the presser bar is the problem.

Anthony;
Good advice there. I don't know why I didn't catch that but you're right, the shank of the needle should not be entering the needle hole in the foot, it should stop above it. I will have to pull the face plate on my #8 & see for sure what the procedure would be but I believe it is very similar to the #9 in that respect.
Miller/TN

Before you adjust the arm of the machine or try to straighten the neede bar, you might try adjusting the needle bar up slightly. Miller helped me fix a No9 that had its needle bar set to low. This was causing the needle to strike and rub the hook. The needle bar had a collar with a screw. Loosening the screw, you can move the needle bar up, down, turn, or remove it completely. Since you say the "fat" of the needle is rubbing, it sounds like your needle bar is too low. Causing the needle to go too far down at its lowest point. I would try adjusting the needle bar up first.?

I only know No9s, so I am clueless if No8s have a collar for the needle bar. Someone else might be able to advise you further.

Hope I was of some help!
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Anthony from N. California

Hi K;
Unfortunately we do not have any way of positively dating W&W machines by SN. As best I can determine the #8 model was introduced in 1878. It continued in production until introduction of the #9 in 1889. I have seen a picture of the plate from a very early #8, only a 4 digit SN beginning with a 2. This machine stated it was patented by J A House & had patent dates of 1870, 72 & 73. My #8 treadle is later @ # 353,878 , does not reference J A House & has patent dates including the same 1872 & 73 dates on the early one but adds dates from 1876 & 1878. Your SN wold indicate a quite early machine likely no later than 1880.
Does your bobbin have a case with it. In so far as I am aware all of the #8s did. If your case is missing that would explain the Rattling. If the case is there & it still rattles then it is likely the holder itself needs adjusting. Projecting from the base of the bobbin holder, toward the machine, you should see a small screw with its end flattened. Turning this screw in reduces the clearance while turning it outward increases the clearance. The holder should be adjusted so that its spring just snugs up against the bobbin holder to keep it snug, but still be loose enough to allow the thread to pass around the bobbin case beneath the spring. Too loose & you get the rattle, too tight & you get thread breakage.
I presume when you say the upper tension is a flat spring what you are referring to is a flat spring wound as a cone. This spring operates through end compression rather than "Winding" the coils to a tighter wind as in a clock spring, which is wound flat rather than conical. This is known as a Volute spring & is a carry over from the tension of the earlier curved needle machines.
Pictures of the underside of the sn 2K+ machine as well as a later 45K+ machine do not show the tension screw like mine has for the bobbin thread. I am not real sure how their tensions are set. So far I have not found a manual from this early. Look carefully beneath the bed of your machine. These earlier pics show a couple of levers beneath the bed at the bobbin end. One I believe is the stitch length controller & the other may well be the tension control.
As to your needle striking on the side there are a couple of possibilities. First of course is that the machine is misaligned with the bed. 2nd is that the needlebar, below the head so it doesn't interfere with its operation has been hit & given a slight bend. If this should prove to be the case you would need to remove the bar & straighten it. Some people straighten them a by striking them while in the machine, but I have just never felt it wise to put impact such as that onto cast iron.
In the case of the misalignment with the bed, most machines when they were assembled & properly aligned at the factor had two or three dowel pins placed through the bed & into the pillar base. Thus if the bed for some reason had to be removed from the machine upon re-assembly the dowels would automatically align the machine. Some early machines however did not have these dowels & as it is common for there to be clearance between a screw & its hole it is possible for one of these to get a bit out of alignment. You can look underneath the bed beneath the pillar & see if there are dowels along with the attaching screws.
Check all of this out very carefully & do feel free to ask further as needed. If there is anything in particular you would like me to look at then you can attach pictures to a private email directly to me.
Boye 27 is the correct needle for your machine.
Although I have never met him personally from interacting with Jon here on the group I will say he knows his needles, along with other things. Seeing some of his E-Bay listings he seems to be about the most reasonable seller of needles I have found. I truly believe him to be an honest & trustworthy person to de business with. Other than on one occasion he let the group know he had some W&W curved needles in stock he has never used the group as a means of promoting his business, which in my opinion further adds to his integrity as a person.
Miller/TN

Welcome K;
I love my W&W #8 machine. Well, actually I love all my W&W's but the #8 is sorta special. It was a vast improvement over the older curved needle machines, though they can be enjoyable also. It is the only family machine, of any make, that I am aware of offhand which has the two-groove pulleys allowing for two different speed ratio's to the needle while using the same treadling speed. Also I enjoy watching all the moving parts as opposed to having them hidden away inside the pillar & arm. Its only real drawback is it is small & thus has limited clearance for sewing bulky things. There are some online manuals available for down loading, if you do not have one let me know & I can give you some links. A few very late #8 machines used a different bobbin than the earlier ones. These late ones use the same bobbin which was continued with the #9. The bobbin case has a tension spring mounted to it. The earlier ones, which are in the majority, have a plain case with no built in tension & use a larger diameter but thinner bobbin. Tension control is external to the case via a knurled head thumb screw located underneath the bed at the back side of the bobbin cover plate. In threading one of these it is imperative you place the bobbin with the thread coming from the bottom toward you, so when it is picked up it comes up in front of the bobbin. Put it in backwards & it "Will Not Sew", just don't ask How I Know
Any questions or comments you may have concerning this machine or any other W&W you may have do feel free to chime in. We are here for the sole purpose of sharing info about these great machines. As you have the time be sure & look over the files section, there is a lot of info posted on the various models as well as needles, bobbins etc, some of this I even wrote myself. Photo section is of course always nice to browse through, lots of good pictures of the various machines.
Miller/TN

Hello!?

Thanks for letting me join your group!

I'm K and I recently got a # 8 treadle. ?It is my oldest machine and my only pre-1900 so far. ?I have a bunch of machines. ?My favorites are the treadles and hand cranks (re-homing most of the electrics). ?I live in southwestern Ohio, and work as an engineering admin. ?Jon (the needle guy) told me on Quilting Board about this group and recommended you.

K

Thanks Miller..it really is amazing as the machine was completely?
frozen when we got it. ? My husband is going to make a top
to fit it. (And fit it to some irons we have, not sure what brand they are.)
?Have it now in the cabinet that one of the other
8s came in.


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Miller,

Hi Brenda;
Everything I have seen on belts is "They should be just tight enough to run the machine without slipping". When I install a new leather belt my general practise is to first lay one end on the floor & stand on it. I then pull the belt up behind me & over my shoulder & pull to stretch it as much as possible. I then run the belt around the grooves & through any guides present. I will pull the belt fairly snug & cut off the end without the staple flush with the other end. Then punch the hole for the staple & join (in place of course). This will generally be tight enough to run, but not overly tight. The staple holes are normally about ?" back from the end. After running a while the belt will stretch & begin to slip. When this occurs open one end of the staple, cut the belt off through the hole & repunch & rejoin. You may have to do this again later, but usually after two shortenings it will not stretch any m,ore for a long time.
Miller/TN

How tight should the belt be then?

Hi Brenda;
I suppose you have noticed you have two grooves on both the treadle's bandwheel & the machine's handwheel. The belt should run in the larger groove on one wheel & the smaller groove on the other wheel. If running from the large groove on the bandwheel to the small groove on the machine you get more speed & can thus sew faster. When running from the small bandwheel groove to the larger on the machine you run slower for either more control or more power for thicker, heavier materials. A very worthwhile setup in my opinion & the sizes are calculated so that the same belt can be swapped from side to side with tension that will work for either, doesn't require another belt.
Miller/TN.

Thanks so much, Miller. The dimensions help out so, so much. You said to throw the belt off when winding, that makes sense.?

Hi Brenda;
I measured 4 bobbins & the winder spindle for my #8. The bobbins were consistent with a hole diameter through the hub of .232". The part of the spindle the bobbin fits on for winding is tapered. with the outer end being about .220" & the inner end going up to about .250" over a length of about 5/8" (.625"). You simply push the bobbin on until it is tight, there is no groove inside the hole to engage or no pin to engage the side of the bobbin, it is simply friction driven from the fit on the spindle.

The freer it turns the better, you do not want any drag on the winder. My winder has an over center cam which operates against a flat spring. It turns down for winding & up when not in use. The winder tire engages the flat on the bandwheel on the side next to the iron's leg. Wheel is of course outside the leg. You just throw the belt off in order not to run the machine while winding, there is no other release.
Miller/TN

I have a #8 treadle. The bobbin winder is missing and in the process of fabricating a new one. My question is, does the spindle spin freely and how snug shold the bobbin be on the spindle? It's suppose to attach to the irons underneath. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.?

Mary;
That old #8 is cleaning up right nice & appears to be making a good stitch, well done.
Miller/TN

I uploaded a couple short videos of this machine sewing
and new pictures of it cleaned.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mmaryts/sets/72157683817458804


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