Hi Jose;
Perhaps I can help you with part of your questions. rom the time Allen Wilson had perfected his rotary hook machine using the curved needle around 1852 all of these machines were essentially of the same design. It would appear that over most of their production life, at least as family machines were concerned that model numbers applied for the main part to the finish, rather than design. #1 machines had Silver plated arms, cloth plate & other parts.#2 machines had these parts Bronze plated while #3 machines had them painted. A #4 machine was listed as a heavier machine for heavy duty use. To date I have not seen one of these, I suspect most of them went for industrial use. A #5 machine had a tubular bed (Free Arm). A #6 was an early straight needle machine.
These machines were made in versions with low wide beds, low narrow beds & the high bed. A change in the shape of the feed dogs was made around 1870 but this did not result in a model number change. Around 1900 a change was made in the configuration of the hook which "I Think" did away with the necessity of the hook making two revolutions per stitch & thus completed the stitch with one revolution. It is my understanding that W&W attempted to drop these machines after the introduction of the #8 around 1878. Certain segments of industry kept demanding them so they were kept in the line in the high bed version for the duration of the company. After Singer bought W&W in 1905 they were also continued in Singer/Bridgeport catalogs, also in the high bed version as the Singer 1W1 until at least 1924 & perhaps a year or so longer.
In these machines I have one half case treadle & three heads. The treadle & 2 of the heads are from Ca 1870 with the 4th head Ca 1860. The 1860 machine is a wide bed with Silver parts so I would call it a #1, the other three are all narrow bed with painted parts, so #3's.
As far as I am aware of the treadle machines all came equipped with the leather foot straps. The straps had been broken off when I acquired mine but the ends were still attached beneath the pedals. There were simply holes in the straps through which the screws were inserted to clamp the straps to the underside of the pedals beneath the screw heads.
I have never seen any indication of these machines being equipped with pads or wheels. My suspicion, though only a guess, is that as these same treadles were used in some industrial fields is that in some situations they may well have bolted them to the floor.
As to the leather on the belt pulley, mine has tapered/skived ends to overlap & give a smooth joint & then has two screws placed through the joint. The overlapping ends would of course have been glued & though I have not taken one off they are likely glued to the metal core beneath the leather as well. Although I do not have any documented evidence on this I can almost guarantee a form of animal glue would have been used. This glue can still be acquired from some suppliers today, normally referred to as Hide Glue. It comes in a powder form, is mixed with water & then heated & stirred well usually in a steel or cast iron pot. It is actually a quite excellent glue with good adhesive qualities, just a bit messy & Stinky to use. Its use predates the sewing machine by many centuries.
On the brass lock I am not sure I know for certain which one you are needing. On my half case I have the rear part of the cover is fixed to the table top. The front part of the cover folds up & back over the rear fixed part to provide access to the machine for use. Without actually measuring I guess this front part is about twice as long as the fixed rear part.
Under the top of the rear cover are the two small drawers you mention, one on either side. To the left of the machine is a fixed covered box (Note I do not call this one a drawer as it does not move). The spindle from the machine's main shaft projects into this box for placing the bobbin for winding. There is also a spool pin to place the spool of thread on for bobbin winding inside this box. The cover for this box as I recall has a simple latch which keeps the lid closed by friction. The main Cover for the machine itself can be Key Locked. Anyway I am not for certain which of these you are missing. If you will let me know I will see if I can get you a workable picture.
Miller/TN
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Dean, I've been trying to contact you.? Please contact me off list Cheryl jncparker4@...
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Hi all. I joined
this group many months ago but, as this is my first post, let me previously
introduce myself. My name is Jos¨¦-Carlos and I¡¯m living in Barcelona
(Catalonia, Spain). I am a professional antiques restorer, specialized in
technical and mechanical antiques, and working for both museums and private individuals.
But my today¡¯s post is not about my job but about my hobby: I¡¯m the ¡°proud¡±
owner of a sewing machines midsize collection (nowadays composed by 67 machines,
all of them manufactured prior to WWII).
Regarding
Wheeler & Wilson ones, I have got a D9 (#2398317), an 8 (#409223) and a,
for you, very rare Aurora, a W&W#1 type 1 clone (supposedly unlicensed),
manufactured in Barcelona, in a pretty number (nearly forty thousands), along
last quarter of nineteenth century. One of my
last acquisitions has been a W&W#1 type 3 (#993337), that one with the
raised bed baseplate. Its ¡°furniture¡± is the most usual one, exactly like the
machine pictured in our group webpage: a hinged lid with 2 small drawers in the
front, under the cover fixed part, and another bigger drawer, this time on the
left of the machine. I¡¯m now beginning
this machine¡¯s restoration, in a ¡°museum approach¡± (a very time consuming
project with more than 150 forecasted hours!); that means, restoring the
machine ¡°as it is¡± at present (not as it supposedly ¡°was¡±, much more than a
century ago), but optionally replicating missing parts, if any, bearing always
in mind that, if it¡¯s the case, it¡¯s advisable to use original materials and methods
and to clearly identify the added parts. My first
doubt is about the tabletop drawer: its cover locking ¡°mechanism¡± is not
complete and I need to remake the small missed metal part (in brass, I guess) that
is located under the front end of the cover and screwed to it. Any of you would
share with me a picture, instructions manual, or a drawing showing this part? My second
doubt is about the pedals (¡°sandals¡±, according W&W nomenclature). I would
like to add its leather straps (although I guess they were a payable add-on). I
can easily deduce the width and thick of these straps as they has to pass
through the pedal slots, but I don¡¯t know how were these bands fixed to the pedals
underside screws. Once again, any of you might help me? The third
question is about the holes located at the bottom end of the table¡¯s legs. What
was their original function? Is there any documental evidence of placing here
some kind of pads or wheels? If that is the case, how were them? Fourth and
last question is about the cam or pulley, identified as part number 6 in some instructions
manuals. This cam is located under the machine¡¯s cloth plate, transmission belt
moving around it. As I can read in those manuals this part was originally
leather-covered but I can¡¯t imagine how was this leather originally stuck or
glued to the metal (epoxy glues were not yet invented in 1875!). Any ideas?
Thank you
very much in advance!
Best
regards from Catalonia.
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Re: Thrilled with my new WW 9
Hi Sandra; That Aug 223, 1894 patent was US patent #527,915. It described a dual purpose needlebar which could use either the round shank or flat shank needles. Illustrated & described is the plain straight needlebar with the shouldered clamp screw as on most #9 machines with the shoulder area serving as the Drive for accessories such as the ruffler. In line with the clamp screw near the bottom of the needle bar was a short headless screw which projected in to the needle hole in the bar. When this screw was turned in it prevented a needle with flat from being installed except in the proper orientation. When backed up it allowed insertion of the round shank needle. Very late #9's & all D-9's seem to have the needlebar with the enlarges sleeve at the bottom. This sleeve has an integral drive lug so the clamp screw is a straight screw without the shoulder. Beneath the sleeve is that short screw which aligns the needle with flat as it is inserted. It is not however accessible due to the sleeve so is not the dual purpose bar as per the patent in spite of being marked with the patent date. To date I have found no one who has ever seen on of these dual purpose bars per the patent.
On the picture what I would like if possible is a good detail view of "Just" the hook. I would like to compare it with my hook. I am afraid the looper would actually block the view I am wanting. ?It might be nice to also have the view of the looper in place without the holder in front of it.? Miller/TN ?
On Friday, May 12, 2017 11:35 AM, Sandra Scott via Groups.Io <sake1950@...> wrote:
Thanks, Miller. Have not had time to work with this machine much this week other than to check it out.? The looper did have a better stitch on my older WW9 than the later one. I compared the fine thread plate to the chain stitch plate and did not see any difference on the bottom of the plate that would allow for additional clearance. Are you wanting a closeup of the looper placed in the machine without the bobbin cover in place? I was able to find the instruction sheet for the looper. My machine does have the Oct 23, 1894 patent date on the needle bar. So that pretty much dates it to late 1894 or possibly early 1895 , I guess. Thank you. Sandra in Texas. Sent from my iPhone > On May 11, 2017, at 4:17 PM, Miller Fulks < mmf38@...> wrote: > > Hi Sandra; > I have 5 W&W treadles. A #3, #8, #9 & a D-9 drop head. The 5th came to me as irons only so not certain as to its ancestry. It has a regular sized, not the larger industrial, bandwheel mounted outside the legs & runs on ball bearings. It thus was not for a drop head machine & "Most Likely" originally housed a covered top D-9 though it conceivably could have been a light industrial or tailoring machine such as the #11. > The #3 & #8 irons are both unmarked. The other three all have Wheeler & Wilson markings on the cross members between the legs. > > When we were trying the chain stitch spider we were well aware of the special throat plate which we did not have. However I believe the primary reason for that plate is for extra clearance as the chain stitch makes a thicker seam. I do have a chain stitch looper for a Standard Slim Rotary & it also used a similar special throat plate. I have successfully made a chain stitch with this machine though it could be told the seam was a bit cramped with the regular plate. > > When we were trying the W&W looper we simply did not get far enough along to "Need" the extra clearance of the special plate. We could not successfully pick up the thread & form the chain. The looper, although installed per directions simply did not want to hold the proper location to form the stitch, so we concluded that it required a special built hook for it. > > The instruction sheet, a small single page, came from Needlebar's site so I do not feel comfortable with posting it to another board. It was posted to Needlebar by the late Eleanor Beck. If you would like to look at it you can go to needlebar.org; picture library,? US machines, W then Wheeler & Wilson. As I recall it is near the top of first page. Everything on needlebar has been archived & is accessible except the forums which are member only. > > If there i9s any way you can do so I would love to see a good detailed close up picture of the face of the hook with the bobbin holder removed from in front of it to compare with my hook.. > > Also does your higher numbered #9 have the straight needle bar or one with a detachable sleeve at the bottom? If the later, look very closely around the Very Top of the needlebar above the head & see if it has an 1894 patent date there. If so it was likely roll stamped in very fine letters & is best seen with a magnifying glass. If there it will read Oct 23, 1894. > Miller/TN > > >
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Re: Thrilled with my new WW 9
Thanks, Miller. Have not had time to work with this machine much this week other than to check it out. The looper did have a better stitch on my older WW9 than the later one.
I compared the fine thread plate to the chain stitch plate and did not see any difference on the bottom of the plate that would allow for additional clearance.
Are you wanting a closeup of the looper placed in the machine without the bobbin cover in place?
I was able to find the instruction sheet for the looper.
My machine does have the Oct 23, 1894 patent date on the needle bar. So that pretty much dates it to late 1894 or possibly early 1895 , I guess.
Thank you.
Sandra in Texas.
Sent from my iPhone
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On May 11, 2017, at 4:17 PM, Miller Fulks <mmf38@...> wrote:
Hi Sandra;
I have 5 W&W treadles. A #3, #8, #9 & a D-9 drop head. The 5th came to me as irons only so not certain as to its ancestry. It has a regular sized, not the larger industrial, bandwheel mounted outside the legs & runs on ball bearings. It thus was not for a drop head machine & "Most Likely" originally housed a covered top D-9 though it conceivably could have been a light industrial or tailoring machine such as the #11.
The #3 & #8 irons are both unmarked. The other three all have Wheeler & Wilson markings on the cross members between the legs.
When we were trying the chain stitch spider we were well aware of the special throat plate which we did not have. However I believe the primary reason for that plate is for extra clearance as the chain stitch makes a thicker seam. I do have a chain stitch looper for a Standard Slim Rotary & it also used a similar special throat plate. I have successfully made a chain stitch with this machine though it could be told the seam was a bit cramped with the regular plate.
When we were trying the W&W looper we simply did not get far enough along to "Need" the extra clearance of the special plate. We could not successfully pick up the thread & form the chain. The looper, although installed per directions simply did not want to hold the proper location to form the stitch, so we concluded that it required a special built hook for it.
The instruction sheet, a small single page, came from Needlebar's site so I do not feel comfortable with posting it to another board. It was posted to Needlebar by the late Eleanor Beck. If you would like to look at it you can go to needlebar.org; picture library, US machines, W then Wheeler & Wilson. As I recall it is near the top of first page. Everything on needlebar has been archived & is accessible except the forums which are member only.
If there i9s any way you can do so I would love to see a good detailed close up picture of the face of the hook with the bobbin holder removed from in front of it to compare with my hook..
Also does your higher numbered #9 have the straight needle bar or one with a detachable sleeve at the bottom? If the later, look very closely around the Very Top of the needlebar above the head & see if it has an 1894 patent date there. If so it was likely roll stamped in very fine letters & is best seen with a magnifying glass. If there it will read Oct 23, 1894.
Miller/TN
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Re: Thrilled with my new WW 9
Hi Sandra;
I have 5 W&W treadles. A #3, #8, #9 & a D-9 drop head. The 5th came to me as irons only so not certain as to its ancestry. It has a regular sized, not the larger industrial, bandwheel mounted outside the legs & runs on ball bearings. It thus was not for a drop head machine & "Most Likely" originally housed a covered top D-9 though it conceivably could have been a light industrial or tailoring machine such as the #11.
The #3 & #8 irons are both unmarked. The other three all have Wheeler & Wilson markings on the cross members between the legs.
When we were trying the chain stitch spider we were well aware of the special throat plate which we did not have. However I believe the primary reason for that plate is for extra clearance as the chain stitch makes a thicker seam. I do have a chain stitch looper for a Standard Slim Rotary & it also used a similar special throat plate. I have successfully made a chain stitch with this machine though it could be told the seam was a bit cramped with the regular plate.
When we were trying the W&W looper we simply did not get far enough along to "Need" the extra clearance of the special plate. We could not successfully pick up the thread & form the chain. The looper, although installed per directions simply did not want to hold the proper location to form the stitch, so we concluded that it required a special built hook for it.
The instruction sheet, a small single page, came from Needlebar's site so I do not feel comfortable with posting it to another board. It was posted to Needlebar by the late Eleanor Beck. If you would like to look at it you can go to needlebar.org; picture library, US machines, W then Wheeler & Wilson. As I recall it is near the top of first page. Everything on needlebar has been archived & is accessible except the forums which are member only.
If there i9s any way you can do so I would love to see a good detailed close up picture of the face of the hook with the bobbin holder removed from in front of it to compare with my hook..
Also does your higher numbered #9 have the straight needle bar or one with a detachable sleeve at the bottom? If the later, look very closely around the Very Top of the needlebar above the head & see if it has an 1894 patent date there. If so it was likely roll stamped in very fine letters & is best seen with a magnifying glass. If there it will read Oct 23, 1894.
Miller/TN
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Re: Thrilled with my new WW 9
Yes, both of my WW9's have the last patent date of March 25, 1890. My other one is not as nice with serial # 245955.
The looper must need the chain stitch needle plate to work, which I have also. The only difference I see in the needle plate is a slight indention from the needle hole to the slit for the feed dog. I tried the looper & plate on my other WW9 and it worked there also. I assume the chain stitch needle plate is required for the looper to work.
Is the instruction for the looper in the files? It was easy to use.
I now have 6 WW's, 1,3, two 8's (one of which I cannot get it to sew) and two 9's.
I tried down loading pictures but internet is so very slow here and would not load. I will try again for pictures when I can.
Sandra in Texas
Sent from my iPad
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On May 11, 2017, at 7:09 AM, Miller Fulks <mmf38@...> wrote:
Hi Sandra;
Great find there. My very first W&W was also a #9 which I obtained from the Granddaughter of the original owner. She knew her Grandmother married in 1891 & bought the machine After she married but did not know how long afterward. This one is also in a two drawer cabinet which is marked Wheeler & Wilson on the cross brace of the irons.I was of the opinion this was commonly done, though I have only the one #9 treadle.
The #9 seems to have been made from around 1889 until some point in 1895, when it was replaced by the D-9. Unfortunately we do not have accurate dating records for these machines. Your SN however is rather high for a #9 indicating it is probably from late in the series. Mine which is known to be no earlier than 1891 is #'d at 229,218.
Your's should have a March 5 1890 patent date on the right slide plate where the SN is found.
Do you have the chain stitch looper which attaches in place of the bobbin? A couple of years ago a lady who attends the Treadleon sponsored TN TOGA in Winchester TN every year brought a #9 & a chain stitch looper she had purchased off E-Bay. I had an instruction sheet for one. We tried that looper on about 4 different #9 machines & it would not work on any of them. From looking at the instruction sheet & the machines we concluded in order to use it the machine's hook had to have some extra cuts that most #9's did not have. Apparently they were factory fitted & only those machines with which the looper was supplied were cut for it.
Miller/TN
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Re: Thrilled with my new WW 9
Hi Sandra;
Great find there. My very first W&W was also a #9 which I obtained from the Granddaughter of the original owner. She knew her Grandmother married in 1891 & bought the machine After she married but did not know how long afterward. This one is also in a two drawer cabinet which is marked Wheeler & Wilson on the cross brace of the irons.I was of the opinion this was commonly done, though I have only the one #9 treadle.
The #9 seems to have been made from around 1889 until some point in 1895, when it was replaced by the D-9. Unfortunately we do not have accurate dating records for these machines. Your SN however is rather high for a #9 indicating it is probably from late in the series. Mine which is known to be no earlier than 1891 is #'d at 229,218.
Your's should have a March 5 1890 patent date on the right slide plate where the SN is found.
Do you have the chain stitch looper which attaches in place of the bobbin? A couple of years ago a lady who attends the Treadleon sponsored TN TOGA in Winchester TN every year brought a #9 & a chain stitch looper she had purchased off E-Bay. I had an instruction sheet for one. We tried that looper on about 4 different #9 machines & it would not work on any of them. From looking at the instruction sheet & the machines we concluded in order to use it the machine's hook had to have some extra cuts that most #9's did not have. Apparently they were factory fitted & only those machines with which the looper was supplied were cut for it.
Miller/TN
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Re: Thrilled with my new WW 9
I didn't know that W&W made chain stitch attachments. Do you have pics??
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Thrilled with my new WW 9
I found a WW 9 treadle with really nice decals, serial number 308992. The irons are marked Wheeler Wilson, none of my other 5 WW irons are marked. I bought it from the original owners great grandson. He said they married in 1888 and she got the machine soon after. It hasn't been used or cleaned in years. I have it cleaned & sewing again. The 2 drawers were full of old buttons & attachments. Two of the attachments were the chain stitch needle plate & the chain stitch bobbin cover. ? Sandra in Texas
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Re: Wheeler and Wilson #8 hand crank
Hi Deb;
Excellent advice there from Bill. I will just add the following. I do not have specific instructions for the W&W machines. However several makes recommend the needle Rise for 2.4mm or 3/32" depending upon the standard you use, At that point of rise the point of the hook should center on the needle & be in the scarf area. Do keep in mind the #8 threads right to left as do the 9's. On the #8's with external bobbin tension (no spring on the case) the thread "MUST" come off the bottom of the bobbin toward you in loading the bobbin so it pulls up in front of the bobbin. Turn it around & it will not sew, just don't ask me how I know.
Miller/TN
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Re: Wheeler and Wilson #8 hand crank
Hi Deb. I'll try my best to walk you through it. First, remove the thread, the bobbin and the needle so it doesn't get bent. Next, loosen the screw that holds the bobbin holder and remove the bobbin holder. This allows for an unobstructed view of the rotating hook. Next, lay the sewing machine back on it's side and locate the two set screws on the first fitting to the right of the rotating hook beside the black casting that holds the bobbin holder. These two set screws hold the shaft that is attached to the rotating hook. Once loosened, you should be able to turn the the hook back and forth. If you find that it is still stuck, say with age, or dried oil, etc., you must do what you can to free it up so it turns because this is how you set the timing. Once lose, raise the needle bar and replace the needle. With your left hand, rotate the hook so it is just under the needle hole and then hold it from turning and lower the needle bar by turning the hand wheel with you right hand. Lower it all the way. Now, continue to turn the hand wheel so the needle comes up ever so slightly and stop. Now, adjust the rotating hook by turning it so the end of the hook just comes up to the needle and then re-tighten the set screws. Your machine should now be timed. You can go back and and adjust things ever so slightly after if you need too, but this should work now.
Good luck, Bill.
On Sunday, April 30, 2017 4:49 PM, Deb via Groups.Io <brookstonegsp2@...> wrote:
I acquired a #8 hand crank missing plates, a needle bar etc. I have found these pieces and have the machine back together, ?only to find the timing is truly off. I can watch the needle come down late behind the hook and brush against the u of the hook as the needle comes up. I need to know where to start in figuring out how to fix this. I am not ready to give up on this machine.
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Wheeler and Wilson #8 hand crank
I acquired a #8 hand crank missing plates, a needle bar etc. I have found these pieces and have the machine back together, ?only to find the timing is truly off. I can watch the needle come down late behind the hook and brush against the u of the hook as the needle comes up. I need to know where to start in figuring out how to fix this. I am not ready to give up on this machine.
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I have a 12, but it's bobbin assembly looks like a d9.
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D;
Thanks for the link, several manuals there. Some other sites which have down loadable manuals are;
The Smithsonian, ISMACS, needlebar & Singer.
Singer has free manuals for a number of their older machines while newer ones have a fee. The other sites mentioned are all free.
Miller/TN
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Just found this site with manuals for d9, #8, curved needle, Davis, Willcox & Gibbs, Eldredge 2 spool etc.? https://www.woodlandquiltworks.com/services/lessons-traning-manuals/training-manuals/
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David; Glad I could help you get it back together. Taking pictures & labeling parts is certainly a good idea.? I do have to admit though it is something I totally ignore. I normally just take them apart & drop all the parts in some sort of container & then start fishing them out when it goes back together.? Most difficult time I ever had with one was my first Davis Vertical Feed machine. I bought it as a "Parts" machine at a parts machine price. The person I had acquired it from had taken it apart & then didn't know how to get it back together, so he just boxed up the parts & sold them. He said he was quite sure all the parts were there. I guess he was right as I used everything & didn't seem to be missing anything or have any left overs. Miller//TN
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Gotcha. Thanks, that did the job. I should take pictures before disassembly or be more alert when working on mechanical things!
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David; Here is a link to pictures from needlebar showing the two types of feed used on these machines. As you can see the springs, while not identical, are located similarly on both types. This feed return spring & the presser foot spring are to the best of my recollection the only two springs on these machines.
Miller/TN
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Anybody got a link to an Exploded Diagram for a #3 ? (or by extension any curved needle machine) I gotta extra coil spring left over after having the feed dogs out....and cloth wont feed thru now. I'm certain this spring has to do with it because it worked prior to cleaning. Thanks! ? David O.?
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Cheryl
J.C. Verdegay
Sandra Scott
Deb