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Rare W&W machines
Hi all you W&W fans;
I have been granted permission to post pictures of a couple of very rare curved needle #1 machines. These machines belong to a collector from the Netherlands named Rijnko Fekkes. One machine is a very early one dating back to 1853 By that point in time less than 1500 machines had been built & not many of these have survived. This one was apparently exported to France as it has French markings on it. The other one is a hand crank machine, of which only a very few are known to exist. It is a later machine & was a UK export. I think it highly likely the UK importer simply imported the machine & then had the base with crank assembly fabricated there, so would not have been made by W&W but was used originally. I have seen pictures of another which appeared near identical, so likely from the same source. I did feel these very rare machines would be a good addition for our group & am greatly appreciative to Rijnko for permission to use them. Rijnko is a noted collector & has many fine machines. He is a member of Needlebar & ISMACS & possibly others but is not dedicated to any single brand of machine that I am aware of. Miller/TN |
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Re: New member - Allen B. Wilson relative
Hi Miller Wow there are not many people I come across that even know about threads (your the first? :-))? ?) threads that are capable of delivering a lateral?force for vices, acro-props and G clamps. I have hazy recollections of cutting one of them at the apprenticeship training school.? At the domestic appliance works we used a lot of self tapping screws a bit nasty and if the components were serviceable there was a special clip that clicked over the sheet metal hole that would not wear out. The most interesting screw we had was a "lobed thread" that we used on die cast components, we had lobed taps that would cut / roll the threads so there was no swarf on the gas components. Thanks for the info on breech threads I can remember seeing them with the slots cut and now I understand more about the cam action 1/4 turn. The interesting similar nuts that we had that sort of did the same thing I used in the sheet metal development shop, to describe it since I do not know its proper name other than a "fast nut"? threaded and then a hole drilled at an angle to allow the nut to slide over and along the thread and then level out so the threads catch and then you could apply force.? ? I am still taken aback by what our forefathers did in engineering back then with gun and sewing machine construction, things made to last compared to the domestic appliance construction basic "fit for purpose" cost reduction, most modern items if you have to take it apart more than once the threads will strip out. It has put a smile on my face remembering a past life before I ended up in software (it was not fun) I remember from the Blacksmiths shop where we stored all the larger diameter threaded components and in my grandfathers house under the stairs where all the 100s of boxes of smaller size nuts and bolts in all the flavours, As a kid of 10y+ I used to be sent to find something, it would take me ages. all the best John? ? ?? ? On Wed, 11 Sep 2019 at 18:05, Miller Fulks <mmf38@...> wrote:
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Re: New member - Allen B. Wilson relative
Hi John; A few more pints on screw? threads. Other than the standards we have talked about I have cut left hand threads, 2-lead threads, square threads, acme threads? Buttress threads. Most of the Buttress threads I did were of the interrupted nature. On these we assembled the parts, marked both for location, then cut away 4 longitudinal equally spaced sections of the threads of a bit over 45 deg in each part. These were commonly called Breech Block threads as they were first designed for locking the breech's of large? Naval guns.? This allowed the breech to be slid home without rotation & then a 45 deg turn would lock it tightly in place. On those Singer threads you will note they are virtually all given in fractional sizes.. The numbered series for the smaller sizes had not yet been introduced when Singer set their screw sizes. 9/64, 11/64 & 15/64 all show u frequently. 9/64-40 is used for the screw which holds the foot, the needle clamp screw & the bed screw & some other places as well. At? 0.1406" this screw is 0.0026" larger than a #6? @0.138". The 11/64 screw is 0.172" or 0.005" smaller than a #9, while the 15/64 thread @? 0.234" falls between a #12 & #14.? A couple of rules of thumb are a #0 screw has a major diameter of 0.060". All other sizes vary by 0.013" per each whole number. Thus you can take the #'d screw size & multiply the # by 0.013 then add 0.060 & you have the diameter of that size screw. The other is to take the major diameter of the screw & subtract one pitch length & it will give a working diameter for the tap drill.As an example for a 1/4-20 screw subtract 0.050 "(1/20) from.0.250" & the closest drill to that .0200" will give an acceptable size for all purposes unless extreme accuracy is called for. Miller/TN
On Wednesday, September 11, 2019, 02:26:36 AM PDT, John Harrison <jdhtyler@...> wrote:
Hi Miller It is interesting when you find your roots. {no pun intended} Regarding the previous photos? The big lathe would have been a line shaft driven in the past we had a 3 phase motor 415v running it. When I used it I had to take small cuts because the headstock bearing were worn so a bigger cut the 3 jaw chuck would lift up onto the tool and make a mess. The radial arm drill was also converted to electric and at the back there were 3 pullies with a 3 inch belt speed change was done with a broom handle and a bit of nerve since the drill had to run to move the belt across. We use to drill a 3/4 inch hole from a centre pop mark no pilot hole in 1/2 inch black bar, we used to make large chimney bands for steeplejacks like Fred Dibnah? ? They were in 6ft lengths balanced on a 30 gallon oil drum and a steel peg in the bed to hold against the drilling action, we could not clamp it down since the bar needed to oscillate a bit since radial arm drill rotate perfectly centred. If we had clamped it something would have broken. Years later in the 1990 we had to add a DC injection breaking kit and a cage around the belts.?? I did not serve my apprenticeship with my father I did that at Thorn EMI in a section that produced domestic Gas and Electrical appliances.After a while I worked on gas appliances in the development department and in 1987 I left to do a degree Beng. in Electrical Electronics the only job I could get in 1992 was in computing and everything went down hill from there health, work life balance until I gave up and took early voluntary redundancy after 16years by the end of that I was working in a "team of ONE" so taking time off or holidays was hell.?? In 1980s at night school we had to learn about gear trains on a lathe to cut the correct thread pitch, it came in useful later that year at the age of 17y I had to cut a fine thread on a 2 inch?combustion chamber for a Pulse Jet engine (I found the plans in a library book). Wow that was a noisy beast I wired it down to a heavy trolley, it was meant to have 4 lb of thrust. The pulse jet engine was intended for control line flying but I was too scared, there are people who have done it in recent years on YT.?
?? <waffle warning, you have been warned > Our MIller connection is because of Man who rented the Causway farm in Hoghton Lancashire ? the small windows to right may have been added by my family since they did weaving and farming ?? Ancestry is all about coincidence I find. The miller family ran the farm in 1841-1851 then the Harrisons from 1861-1875 when he died. Then in the 1970 my relative age 97y who has miller as his middle name, well his wife's family ran the farm.? ?? The head of the Miller family at Causeway was born 1791 and a few of the kids start marrying the Crook family then things like this happen in the church records ? Baptism ? 20 Feb 1834 ? Holy Trinity, Hoghton, Lancashire, England ? [1] John Crook Miller - Child of Thomas Miller & Rachel Abode: Hoghton Occupation: Coal Merchant? ? Notes: [The Baptised's first names were entered as John Crook, (Crook deleted), then John Miller, (Miller deleted), then John Crook again. So I checked [1]Johns dad to find Thomas Crook born 1801 so he is born a Miller but uses Crook in most of his life ? Baptism ? 16 Jun 1799 ? St James, Brindle, Lancashire, England ? POSSIBLE SURNAME MILLER NOT CROOK // Thos. Miller - Son of Wm Miller Abode: Withnell. Thomas then gets married as Miller ? 28 Dec 1818 ? St Andrew, Leyland, Lancashire, England ? Thomas Miller - Husbandman Bachelor of Leyland Rachel Wadsworth - (X), of Parish of Brindle Witness: Thomas Blackden?; William Beevey?? Thomas kids baptism records are a hoot to read Then after that nearly everyone gets a MILLER injection kids being born or even many of wife's have MILLER added as a middle name. The only reason I could think of was money was the root because? ? Probate Thomas Crook 1801¨C1864 ? 09 Jul 1864 ? Riley Green Hoghton? Thomas Miller Crook left ?12,000 to Thomas Miller Crook of Liverpool a coal merchant and James Whitehead of Southport coal merchant.? His son [1]John died a bit later (he had married the daughter Elizabeth Miller from Causeway farm) ? Probate [1]John Crook?1834¨C1891 ? 10 Mar 1892 ? Stanley Grange, Samlesbury ? ?55985 11s 1d of Spring Vale Brewery Darwen, , to Eli Crook Coal Merchant That is a lot of money back then so I guess association with the MILLER name was important to them and it carried in the following generations to my relative, Herbert Miller Crook - (one of the poor crooks that never saw the ??? there is a long story ......) ?all the best John On Wed, 11 Sep 2019 at 03:29, Miller Fulks <mmf38@...> wrote:
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Re: New member - Allen B. Wilson relative
Hi Miller It is interesting when you find your roots. {no pun intended} Regarding the previous photos? The big lathe would have been a line shaft driven in the past we had a 3 phase motor 415v running it. When I used it I had to take small cuts because the headstock bearing were worn so a bigger cut the 3 jaw chuck would lift up onto the tool and make a mess. The radial arm drill was also converted to electric and at the back there were 3 pullies with a 3 inch belt speed change was done with a broom handle and a bit of nerve since the drill had to run to move the belt across. We use to drill a 3/4 inch hole from a centre pop mark no pilot hole in 1/2 inch black bar, we used to make large chimney bands for steeplejacks like Fred Dibnah? ? They were in 6ft lengths balanced on a 30 gallon oil drum and a steel peg in the bed to hold against the drilling action, we could not clamp it down since the bar needed to oscillate a bit since radial arm drill rotate perfectly centred. If we had clamped it something would have broken. Years later in the 1990 we had to add a DC injection breaking kit and a cage around the belts.?? I did not serve my apprenticeship with my father I did that at Thorn EMI in a section that produced domestic Gas and Electrical appliances.After a while I worked on gas appliances in the development department and in 1987 I left to do a degree Beng. in Electrical Electronics the only job I could get in 1992 was in computing and everything went down hill from there health, work life balance until I gave up and took early voluntary redundancy after 16years by the end of that I was working in a "team of ONE" so taking time off or holidays was hell.?? In 1980s at night school we had to learn about gear trains on a lathe to cut the correct thread pitch, it came in useful later that year at the age of 17y I had to cut a fine thread on a 2 inch?combustion chamber for a Pulse Jet engine (I found the plans in a library book). Wow that was a noisy beast I wired it down to a heavy trolley, it was meant to have 4 lb of thrust. The pulse jet engine was intended for control line flying but I was too scared, there are people who have done it in recent years on YT.?
?? <waffle warning, you have been warned > Our MIller connection is because of Man who rented the Causway farm in Hoghton Lancashire ? the small windows to right may have been added by my family since they did weaving and farming ?? Ancestry is all about coincidence I find. The miller family ran the farm in 1841-1851 then the Harrisons from 1861-1875 when he died. Then in the 1970 my relative age 97y who has miller as his middle name, well his wife's family ran the farm.? ?? The head of the Miller family at Causeway was born 1791 and a few of the kids start marrying the Crook family then things like this happen in the church records ? Baptism ? 20 Feb 1834 ? Holy Trinity, Hoghton, Lancashire, England ? [1] John Crook Miller - Child of Thomas Miller & Rachel Abode: Hoghton Occupation: Coal Merchant? ? Notes: [The Baptised's first names were entered as John Crook, (Crook deleted), then John Miller, (Miller deleted), then John Crook again. So I checked [1]Johns dad to find Thomas Crook born 1801 so he is born a Miller but uses Crook in most of his life ? Baptism ? 16 Jun 1799 ? St James, Brindle, Lancashire, England ? POSSIBLE SURNAME MILLER NOT CROOK // Thos. Miller - Son of Wm Miller Abode: Withnell. Thomas then gets married as Miller ? 28 Dec 1818 ? St Andrew, Leyland, Lancashire, England ? Thomas Miller - Husbandman Bachelor of Leyland Rachel Wadsworth - (X), of Parish of Brindle Witness: Thomas Blackden?; William Beevey?? Thomas kids baptism records are a hoot to read Then after that nearly everyone gets a MILLER injection kids being born or even many of wife's have MILLER added as a middle name. The only reason I could think of was money was the root because? ? Probate Thomas Crook 1801¨C1864 ? 09 Jul 1864 ? Riley Green Hoghton? Thomas Miller Crook left ?12,000 to Thomas Miller Crook of Liverpool a coal merchant and James Whitehead of Southport coal merchant.? His son [1]John died a bit later (he had married the daughter Elizabeth Miller from Causeway farm) ? Probate [1]John Crook?1834¨C1891 ? 10 Mar 1892 ? Stanley Grange, Samlesbury ? ?55985 11s 1d of Spring Vale Brewery Darwen, , to Eli Crook Coal Merchant That is a lot of money back then so I guess association with the MILLER name was important to them and it carried in the following generations to my relative, Herbert Miller Crook - (one of the poor crooks that never saw the ??? there is a long story ......) ?all the best John On Wed, 11 Sep 2019 at 03:29, Miller Fulks <mmf38@...> wrote:
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Re: New member - Allen B. Wilson relative
Hi John; Yes, Miller is fine, that's what everyone calls me. I thoroughly enjoyed the pictures. Is the belt on the lathe in picture 8? being run from an overhead line-shaft. I see the drive belt running upward from the head-stock but the upper efrom 1964-1968 nd doesn't show. That looks to be a pretty heavy duty drill press in that photo also. I have run a shaper some,but not near as much as a lathe or milling machine. I worked in one shop where we had a large Planer. They do much the same type of work as a shaper, except the bed travels rather than the ram.They can be built in much larger sizes than is practical for a shaper. Largest part I ever had in a lathe was 33 feet long & weighed a ton a foot, 33 tons. When I went through my machinist apprenticeship we had a class on screw threads & had to buy? a 3-volume set of standards. These covered US, British, ISO Metric as well as a lot of other thread. there were pipe threads, microscope threads? Jar lid & I can't recall off hand was there, but I still have the books & refer to them as needed. Interestingly when Paul Mauser introduced the 1889 Belgian rifle he standarized on a BSW thread of 12 TPI.. When he introduced his now very famous model 1898 he increased the diameter of the thread, but retained the same 12 TPI BSW thread, which was used an all Mauser rifles from 1889 until at least post WWII. One of my maternal great Grandmothers maiden name was Nannie Jane Miller, thus the root of my middle name. She was likely of German descent as her ancestors settled n Pennsylvania. Later her branch of the family migrated southward & finally settled in TN, & formed a small town named Millersburg. Miller/TN |
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Re: New member - Allen B. Wilson relative
Hi Miller (hope it is OK referring to you like that) I was a bit surprised that the Singer tension?screw thread fitted the WWD9 I have in the past used a lathe to cut screw threads but not that small, down at that size they tend to be called BA often used by electricians. In the blacksmiths shop we have UNF, Whitworth, BSF but smallest was about 1/4 inch ;-)? ? BA10 I think is a little larger than I measured the screw on the WW at about 1.65mm Funny to think before 1841 and?Joseph Whitworth? the nut and bolt were made as a matched pair and not standard. ? In this link there is a list of other thread standards I just found this link, it lists the tap sizes at the end ?? You can see my granddads thread cutting lathe with three draws next to a shaper (a bit like a lathe but cuts flat surfaces).it is the 6th photo I was only given these photos in 2005 by a relative I found by ancestry research, he was a wheelwright in the 1940s and used to visit when he wanted some jobs done. His family name often had a middle name of MILLER and he never knew why, with ancestry I managed to solve the problem it was very convoluted to say the least.?? All the very best, I hope this is a bit of fun for you. I just finished making 3 small box bottom bags in billiard cloth only 3 inch square with draw strings, I need the Singer 201 with electric; you do need both hands when things get small. My wife wanted them to put Welsh red glass dragon gifts in them. A bit of a learning curve since I have not made anything fancy like that.? ? John? On Tue, 10 Sep 2019 at 21:07, Miller Fulks <mmf38@...> wrote:
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Re: New member - Allen B. Wilson relative
John; No problem at all with the length of the post. I found it very interesting.? The big problem with finding screws is most of them are not standard by today's standard. Our modern screws in the fine thread series, which is mostly used on sewing machines are standardized by SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers).? Screw sizes for most of these machines had been determined prior to the formation of the SAE.? You can't just walk into any old hardware store & find them. There are firms, at least here in the US who will make screws to order, but they are generally quite expensive. Some sources are an old dealership with some old stock parts. Sometimes some old parts will come up on the on-line auction, or if a junker can de found cheaply the needed part is often there. Speaking of clocks I am not into them, but do have one. It is a Seth Thomas Mirror Ogee style wall clock. It is marked that it was made in Plymouth Hollow Conn, USA. Just after or perhaps during the American War Between the States the Seth Thomas factory burned. As most everyone was employed by the town offered to rebuild the plant if Mr Thomas would agree to stay ther for some period of time.? He accepted & the plant was rebuilt & went back to making clocks, BUT, in the process, the town's name was changed to Thomasville Conn. The fact that mine is marked Plymouth Hollow means it was built prior to the fire. It is a weight drive with 30 Hr movement. It still keeps good time, Except, when I forget to wind it. Miller/TN |
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Re: Bobbins
Hello, I am fascinated with my machine, all of this is new to me, and super excited about being in this group. I would like to know if you could tell me where did you purchased your bobbins, I am missing the bobbin case for my # 9, and have been searching for one for quite some time with no luck. Thank you in advance.
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Re: New member - Allen B. Wilson relative
Hi Miller Sounds like you are on a good path with the medication, it is a bit of a shock how long you have suffered, I have my fingers crossed for you.? My AF is quite minor/ lucky I went in with an very irregular pulse at the beginning of 1998 and was sent to another hospital in an ambulance to be told by a useless doctor that I was too young at 36y to have an AF heart and that I should go back to work. 6months later I had a stroke while I was preparing to crew on a yacht from Swansea UK to Portugal, I lived on my own and did not know until I had a phone call and found I could not say anymore than 3 words before getting stuck. I was lucky 11 days in hospital until my AF heart rate came down from 220 beats to a more normal level; after I came out I joined a gym and 12months later I was back caving and mountain climbing. Interesting thing was I still had breathing problems on just one flight of stirs but if I pushed on with the rest of the stairs my breathing would return to normal a bit like a second wind.? I say this in the hope others find it useful if they are ill. My main problem is that if I get flu or bronchitis then it really his me hard.? My stab at 1900 was such a guess based on thin data, as you know they had a badge by Singer around 1905. I have a few singers and the transfers look odd for the year of the serial number, this is because quite a few were traded in and refurbished by Singer often the case and wood base do not match the date of the machine. I watch a few YT when people strip down a sewing machine to clean it, I could do that I have done that with motorbikes to replace bearings and repaint. With sewing machines I just check for wear and adjust if needed mostly just oil and use them. The WWD9 was dry as a bone and the oil had turned to hard varnish but it would sew once I replaced the bottom bobbin tension screw. (where do you get screws that small, I may have to take a clock to bits) I just ordered a singer 99 bobbin case for ?6 because the tension screw from that fitted but the head of the screw was a bit too big, however the WWD9 works well now. I am still amazed at the quality of engineering from back in the day the tooling and production equipment is stunning when you consider that in a domestic home around 1900 the sewing machine was the most sophisticated piece of equipment unless they had a clock ;-)? ?(It is worth reading about Harrison and the longitude prize? ? )? ? ??Our family used to repair machines in the cotton mills in Gt. Harwood Lancashire and around 1930 my granddad wanted a micrometer so he made one and I still have it he did this in between shoeing cart horses and other blacksmith work. Sorry I got a bit long with the post.? ? ?? all the best John On Tue, 10 Sep 2019 at 00:55, Miller Fulks <mmf38@...> wrote:
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Re: New member - Allen B. Wilson relative
Hi John & Helen;'As you are both what you likely do not realize is I am currently in cancer treatment for Non-Hodgkin/s Lymphoma for the third time in my life, 1987, 2017 & now 2019.. I had strictly Chemo by? infusion the first two times. 1st time went into remission for 30 years, 2nd time about 18 months. My oncologist said my body would not stand another full dose of the chemo's I had previously. She got me into a study group on which I have a limited number of infusions & more oral medication by capsules.? These are a form of immune theropy which helps my natural immune system to fight off the cancer. So far things seem to be going well, have had almost no side effects & feel good. My last previous CT scan? the cancer cells were shrinking. I had a new scan Saturday, but do not have results from it yet. John, I ran those other two numbers through "The Formula" & both fell just a it short of the listed dates, but no more than one year. Keep in mind the serial number was applied before the machine left the factory. t would then go to an area distributor, then a retail dealer & finally to the end user.? To date all the known dates ffor the machine have? been within one year or spot on which I think is excellent confirmation.??Those which were off have consistently?shown a year earlier which likely means it took them a bit longer from leaving the factory to being sold by the dealer. Miller/TN
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Re: New member - Allen B. Wilson relative
Hi Miller Sorry about your leg I myself had a problem back in April the Doc asked me to drive myself to the hospital to report with heart failure. I had Bronchitis twice this year and had it 7 times over the past 4y.? The local heath authority?told the GPs to restrict antibiotics so my AF heart suffered and so I was in hospital for 2weeks it was 6 days before they gave me antibiotics since I was going down hill fast; a month later in out patient they reluctantly gave me a stronger dose. The following week I walked around 18 holes of golf. Online found serial numbers for a 9 with a longer bed and one like mine that was 6y and I got about 68000 so that was my 1900 guess, but that is only if the others got the year right? This is what I found? ww9 2398019 1898 ww9d 2810160 1904 my ww9d serial was 2544138 bought by a family in the UK Hope you get better soon, I was carrying about 6kg of fluid when I walked into hospital they shifted that in about 4days My biggest problem was that I could not lie down or lean back in a chair for 2 weeks I would manged to get to sleep after 4am and the staff would wake me at 6am becasue the shift changed and they wanted to fill in the paperwork. It was enough to make a person ILL? ;-) Hope you get better soon John ?? On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 at 02:04, Miller Fulks <mmf38@...> wrote:
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Re: New member - Allen B. Wilson relative
Hi Helen Sounds like a very nice machine you are getting, in the UK things like that are rare for any brand of sewing machine.? Next?week I will be closer to it than you? Canada ON. I worked in the Blacksmiths from the age of 10y and then part time after 16y I did an apprenticeship for a large company 10y later I left and did a degree in electronics before?I was forced into computing (that nearly killed me off) So now I renovate sewing machine for my wife and I to use The latest the WW9D was bought just because for the harp space ? to the right of the needle. The machine I used as a lad was a Singer 222K and unfortunately my mother gave it away. For me there is not much difference in sewing or sheet metal fabrication. all the best John ? ? On Sun, 8 Sep 2019 at 23:32, Helen DeFoe <hjdefoe@...> wrote: Hi John!? I notice you said your family business "was" blacksmiths, not "is", so I assume you don't carry on the trade yourself!? Thank you for the link about Sewalot and Alex Askaroff.? I have indeed been in contact with him, and he has used the information and photos I've sent in his lengthy W & W article (albeit with a few errors). |
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Re: New member - Allen B. Wilson relative
Hi Helen; My MD put me on this elevated feet restrction Thur & by Fri night the swelling had gone down considerably. Yesterday I ahd an appointment with my oncologist in Nashville TN, about a two hour drive. I did ride crosswise n the back seat with my feet in a pillow, but to do a fair amount of walking at the Hospital, Vanderbilt University Medical Center. By the time I got back home yesterday evening my leg & foot was swollen again.? After keeping it elevated last night & today it is back down to near normal. Hopefully in a few days I will be able to stay up long enough to do a bit of catching up on my main computer. I did get a chance to look at the pictures, thnks so much for posting them here. Very interesting & certainly appropriate for this forum.If you look under each picture you will find an Edit box. Click it? you will fid instructions on how to add text to your photo. You could thus mark the portrait as being Allen /b Wilson & the grave marker as being for his Grandfather & etc.? It is always good to do this on photos as the further down the list as more posts are added the more difficult it comes o find the post itef to get the pertinent data. Miller/TN
On Sunday, September 8, 2019, 08:19:28 PM CDT, Helen DeFoe <hjdefoe@...> wrote:
Thank you for the welcome, Miller!? I would be just delighted to receive a copy of your W & W talk!? That is so thoughtful of you.? Would you please explain what TOGA means?? ? I hope? you're back on your feet soon! -- Helen DeFoe |
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Re: New member - Allen B. Wilson relative
Welcome Helen & John; Thanks for the History Helen & the pictures. As of now I am working off my e-mail list so haven't actually gone to the W&W photo section but will. A few years back we had a lady attend the TN TOGA in Winchester TN who was also related to Nathaniel Wheeler.. It just so happened that year I was set up to give a talk on the W&W machines. This was cam-corded &? I am? pretty certain I still have a copy off it. If you would like I will see if I could send you a copy in a few days.?? As of now I am under doctors orders to stay on by back with my feet elevated for a swollen lower left leg. I am thus working from a laptop in bed. Most everything I have is on a desktop, so it may be a few days before I am able tofrom the serial number, divide the reslt by 75,000 get to it. The D-9 model was placed on the market in 1895 & made until 1905 when W&W was sold to Singer. To? date all recorded serial numbers have been between 2,200,000 & 3,000,000. Production apparently averaged around 75,00 machines per year. ?.? A general Rule of Thumb to date a D-9 s to subtract 2,200,000? from the serial number, divide the result by 75,000., Add this to 1905 & it should give a date within =/- a year. You are spot on in your 100 estimate on yours John, could be late 1899 to no later than 1901 by this "Formula" which incidentally has checked extremely close on a few machines which have had Bill of Sale or Warranty info saved.?
Miller,TN |
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Re: New member - Allen B. Wilson relative
Helen DeFoe
Hi John!? I notice you said your family business "was" blacksmiths, not "is", so I assume you don't carry on the trade yourself!? Thank you for the link about Sewalot and Alex Askaroff.? I have indeed been in contact with him, and he has used the information and photos I've sent in his lengthy W & W article (albeit with a few errors).
You know far more than I about the actual W & W machines!? The one which had been passed down in our family was disposed of years ago, before I knew much about A. B. Wilson.? I purchased a beautifully restored #9 in a mirror-front cabinet back in June, but I have to wait until Christmas to lay hands on it.? My brother our East picked it up in VA, but he won't be able to bring it here to MI until then! -- Helen DeFoe |
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Re: New member - Allen B. Wilson relative
Hi Helen I like the history, it is stunning what they did back then. Our family business was Blacksmiths that started? with my GGrandad in Lancashire UK around 1900?? Just in case you have not seen this chap I will include a link to his site about WW, he also covers much more. ?? (I am not sure where this will end up, just you reading or the group ? so it is a bit of a test) I also just joined because? 9 hrs ago I bought a WWD9 sold as working what a laugh? Cosmetic damage and right hand corner of the bed is broken right through the rear screw of the stitch length plate (I will fix it later metal glue) The bottom bobbin tension had a screw missing so I nicked on out of my singer 99k (not flush fir but it works) It took a bit for me to figure out I had to wrap the thread all the way around the top tension wheel, I have not seen a friction wheel before. Guessing at the serial number 2544138 it could be about dated 1900? John On Sun, 8 Sep 2019 at 19:35, Helen DeFoe <hjdefoe@...> wrote: Hello all!? I'm so pleased to find this group, and am impressed with the knowledge so many of you have.? I'm a member of the W & W Facebook group, but hadn't known of you all until Googling recently.? One of the FB members is a relative of the business half of W & W: Nathaniel Wheeler.? I'm a great x 3 niece of Allen Benjamin Wilson, the inventor.? Here's some info for you history nuts if you're interested: born in 1823, Allen has no living direct descendants, as both his daughters died childless.? Because he was the only "famous" member of an otherwise ordinary family, I'm fortunate that some neat information and items of his have been passed down over the generations.? One is a photograph of a portrait of him, painted when he was in his 40's, I'm guessing.? The original portrait has been lost, as my cousins got rid of it, not knowing who he was.? They only knew him as "that guy whose eyes followed you around the room".? I took a photo or the portrait when visiting their parents some 30 years ago.? I have succeeded in posting this photo on the Photos page on this site.? (No small feat for technologically challenged person like me!)? |
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