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Re: While we're on the subject of HDs...

 

The Sportster gearbox is actually pretty tough, but it is clunky though.



James Franklin
2411 Pine Summit DR. E
Jacksonville, Florida 32211

808-225-0994 (cell)





From: "petetibble" <petetibble@...>
Reply-To: W650riders@...
To: W650riders@...
Subject: [W650riders] While we're on the subject of HDs...
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 21:11:24 -0000

A friend of mine has the hots for a Buell (not the latest one).
I recall that Sportster gear boxes used to be notoriously fragile.
Is that all a thing of the past or are they still a weak point?
Pete

_________________________________________________________________
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Re: Ride your bike to work day

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

LOL! Me too.
?
It's raining here so I'll go in the garage, sit on the W and make motorcycle noises.
?
?
gene in OR (still working on cleaning out the garage...)

----- Original Message -----
I'm retired, so I'll ride around the yard!

Keith Williams? wrote:
The SABMAG groupe says Wednesday is Ride Your Bike To Work Day.? I hadn't seen it mentioned elsewhere.?? Keith Williams
Tank seam flanges

john gary simpson
 

Anyone gone to the trouble and expense to remove them? If not, have
you considered it?
Re: NWC - RETRO jAWAS

john gary simpson
 

..you said what I was thinking....

Martin Taylor wrote:
why would you want to?

________________________________

From: W650riders@yahoogroups.com on behalf of ADRIAN
Sent: Tue 17/07/2007 17:21
To: W650riders@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [W650riders] NWC - RETRO jAWAS

<>


Check this out - you can buy retro Jawas now!

Adrian


We won't tell. Get more on
(and love to hate):

Re: Oil/ Oil Additives

john gary simpson
 

Back when I was a kid (before electronic ignition, synthetic oil, cable TV etc)one school of thought was that if you broke an engine in HARD it would be faster on the track. But synthetic STILL can prevent ring seating since modern engines are held to about 200 degrees and synthetics break down way higher than that. In (air cooled)? motorcycles though, that is NOT the case! Excelsior Hendersons run quite hot, but I still never saw mine get the oil above 325 degrees.

Jon Haddock wrote:
Ferraris and Porsches DEFINITELY get their rings broken in at the
factory before they are sold. They power part of the Porsche factory
from the dynos. This is because they are obliged to guarantee a
minimum power output and the only way to ensure this is to bed the
rings properly. They do this by loading the motor and revving it to
the red line several times. The cycling of hard load and relax to
idle super-heats the rings while they are still rough, melting the
ring's high spots and creating a smooth gas tight surfce. The rapid
drop to idle in-between the rev-outs bathes the rings in cooling oil
vapour.
Several race car engine bulders do the same thing, and in fact if you
baby a motor without doing this as your first action, the rings will
never properly bed-in.

Synthetics cannot stop this initial high spot heating and
melting...They're good but not THAT good...they only manage around
100 deg C above mineral oils before they break down. That's enough to
guarantee zero wear at normal engine temps, but they'll run-in fine
during those initial few bursts.

Jon

> That's not entirely true. New engines that are perfectly honed
from the factory don't require ring-seating and can use synthetic
from the get go. If you rebuild your engines at home and have less
than perfect equipment, as I do, you STILL need to seat your rings
with fossil oil. They will take ten times as long, if ever, to seat
using synthetic oil.
>
> Ray Nielsen .> wrote: --- In
W650riders@yahoogroups.com, "bufallobiff"
> wrote:
> >
> > ---Moto-Guzzi has synthetic in them from the factory and it's
> > the "break in" oil.
> >
> Break in oils these days are regular motor oils. Mobil 1's web site
> com> used to have a FAQ section where they addressed
the
> issue of break in vs. synthetic oil.
>
> They noted that some Corvettes, Aston-Martins, Porsches and a few
> other brands came from the factory with Mobil 1 in the crankcase.
> In a nutshell, NO problems with using a synthetic during break in.
>
> I've changed to Mobil 1 in my new bikes at the first change
> interval, usually around 600 miles. No problems and many have
> achieved high mileage (several over 100 K miles). These bikes ran
> the gamut from a 1100cc Gold Wing, a Suzuki Burgman scooter, W650,
> Bandit 1200, Suzuki Boulevard M50 and more that I can't remember --
> about 15-18 bikes in the last 24 years.
>
> Just my two bits worth.
>
> Ray Nielsen, in Minneapolis.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.
> Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.
>


Get the Yahoo! toolbar and wherever you're surfing.
NWC: Polish digital clock

petetibble
 

And no, this isn't a Polish joke, it's a brilliant digital clock
designed by Polish students. Have a look, its quite addictive, if not
100% accurate:



Pete
Re: Change in Mufflers

john gary simpson
 

I have a pair of Dunstall replicas that I put on my URAL for? month.? Didn't like them - too loud.? I put the stockers back on.

Brent Burtschell wrote:
I have a 2000 model W650 with mufflers that are welded on to the head
pipes (factory installation). I've been considering a change to
Dunstall replica type mufflers but have some reservations. Once the
original equipment mufflers are cut off, is there an easy way to
reattach them without having them look like a cobbled up mess? The
small covers at the pipe/muffler junction are tack welded on. From
all of the correspondence that I've seen so far, the main jets are
likely to be close to the right size. I have a Dynojet kit with jets,
needles,springs, etc., and it appears that the modification would
benefit from at least the needle change. Some correspondence has also
recommended the exact point at which the Mufflers should be cut off.

Has anyone done this modification and then reattached the original
mufflers? It looks like a sleeve could be fabricated to clamp to the
head pipes and the original mufflers, but I'm not sure how clean it would look.

Brent Burtschell
Los Alamos, New Mexico


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Re: Ride your bike to work day

john gary simpson
 

I'm retired, so I'll ride around the yard!

Keith Williams wrote:
The SABMAG groupe says Wednesday is Ride Your Bike To Work Day.? I hadn't seen it mentioned elsewhere.?? Keith Williams

Looking for a deal? with Yahoo! FareChase.
Re: fork spring suggestions, please

Stewart Nyi
 

I know I should leave this to the pros here.
I have not had my W that long, and have not installed the progressive springs.
With those caveats in mind, some thoughts on your question #2:
?
I did install the progressive springs on my last bike - Vulcan 750.? Spacers were alredy in the forks, and were cut to size with a hack saw - no big deal.? Some Vulcan owners used PVC for spacers, if I recall correctly.? The change in springs was simple, and improved the handling of the bike, especially under hard stops, immensely.?? In looking at the?W maintenance manual briefly, it does not appear that?the procedure would be much?different for the W.? I'm sure others here?will let you know for sure.
?
The prior owner of my W did not feel the need to change the fork springs, nor do I; however, we are both small in stature.? Also, my bike does have the low bars,?which apparently helps reduce the nose dive problem some.
?

Stewart

----- Original Message ----
From: Drew W
To: W650riders@...
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 12:53:12 PM
Subject: [W650riders] fork spring suggestions, please

Hello - Being that this is a well-worn topic, I was hoping to find
what I was looking for by searching the archives. Alas, no *clear*
answers. So, I'm hoping to get some help from this great group.

I live in San Francisco and most of my riding is here in the City.
The roads here are a bit dodgy and I'm also not too keen on the
proverbial nose dive the W takes on hard braking (a frequent
occurrence for us city riders). So, I'm looking to upgrade my
springs with progressives.

I know where to get the Hagons, but they are rather pricey. I also
know where to get Progressive springs (much less expensive, but
require a spacer). And, my mechanic just threw out a third choice -
Race Tech springs (which are in between the other two in price).

So, for those of you who have done this upgrade, my questions are:

1) which springs do you recommend (is there any that you strongly
recommend AGAINST)?
2) for those that require a spacer, have you found any
issues/challenges/ tips with this?
3) does anyone have a good source for the Race Tech fork springs?

Thank you!
drew



Building a website is a piece of cake.
Yahoo! Small Business gives you

Re: Oil/ Oil Additives

 

I used to be not brave enough to do it either but the last few new
autos/trucks (the dubya also) I've bought got this treatment....the
last one started at 2 miles on the odometer. These engines are now
mechanically quiet and go 10,000 miles between oil changes and use no
oil in between. The engines I babied during breakin years ago always
used a quart every 2-3 thousand miles.

I pretty much followed the mototuneusa.com process as reasonably close
as possible.

Just my thoughts and observations.

Vernon



I've never been brave enough to use the technique on a new motor,
but Jon's
right. that 's the way to optimise powr out of your mill. It does
involve
an oil change every few operatins for a very few miles





Larry Botheras



Essex UK

W650 Wrench

2007 Moto Guzzi Norge

1977 KH400

1978 CD175

1994 Ural Solo







From: W650riders@... [mailto:W650riders@...] On
Behalf Of Jon Haddock
Sent: 17 July 2007 20:41
To: W650riders@...
Subject: [W650riders] Re: Oil/ Oil Additives



Ferraris and Porsches DEFINITELY get their rings broken in at the
factory before they are sold. They power part of the Porsche factory
from the dynos. This is because they are obliged to guarantee a
minimum power output and the only way to ensure this is to bed the
rings properly. They do this by loading the motor and revving it to
the red line several times. The cycling of hard load and relax to
idle super-heats the rings while they are still rough, melting the
ring's high spots and creating a smooth gas tight surfce. The rapid
drop to idle in-between the rev-outs bathes the rings in cooling oil
vapour.
Several race car engine bulders do the same thing, and in fact if you
baby a motor without doing this as your first action, the rings will
never properly bed-in.

Synthetics cannot stop this initial high spot heating and
melting...They're good but not THAT good...they only manage around
100 deg C above mineral oils before they break down. That's enough to
guarantee zero wear at normal engine temps, but they'll run-in fine
during those initial few bursts.

Jon

That's not entirely true. New engines that are perfectly honed
from the factory don't require ring-seating and can use synthetic
from the get go. If you rebuild your engines at home and have less
than perfect equipment, as I do, you STILL need to seat your rings
with fossil oil. They will take ten times as long, if ever, to seat
using synthetic oil.

Ray Nielsen <rnielse1@> wrote: --- In
W650riders@... <mailto:W650riders%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"bufallobiff" <mschuder@>
wrote:

---Moto-Guzzi has synthetic in them from the factory and it's
the "break in" oil.
Break in oils these days are regular motor oils. Mobil 1's web site
<www.mobil1.com> used to have a FAQ section where they addressed
the
issue of break in vs. synthetic oil.

They noted that some Corvettes, Aston-Martins, Porsches and a few
other brands came from the factory with Mobil 1 in the crankcase.
In a nutshell, NO problems with using a synthetic during break in.

I've changed to Mobil 1 in my new bikes at the first change
interval, usually around 600 miles. No problems and many have
achieved high mileage (several over 100 K miles). These bikes ran
the gamut from a 1100cc Gold Wing, a Suzuki Burgman scooter, W650,
Bandit 1200, Suzuki Boulevard M50 and more that I can't remember --
about 15-18 bikes in the last 24 years.

Just my two bits worth.

Ray Nielsen, in Minneapolis.






---------------------------------
Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.
Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.
Re: NWC - RETRO jAWAS

Martin Taylor
 

why would you want to?

________________________________

From: W650riders@... on behalf of ADRIAN
Sent: Tue 17/07/2007 17:21
To: W650riders@...
Subject: [W650riders] NWC - RETRO jAWAS



<>


Check this out - you can buy retro Jawas now!

Adrian
Re: Ride your bike to work day

pete7953
 

--- In W650riders@..., Keith Williams <kwilliams1936@...>
wrote:

The SABMAG groupe says Wednesday is Ride Your Bike To Work Day. I
hadn't seen it mentioned elsewhere. Keith Williams

Same as any other day for me :-)

Might be nice if it stayed dry for both journeys !

Pete
Re: Oil/ Oil Additives

Larry Botheras
 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

I¡¯ve never been brave enough to use the technique on a new motor, but Jon¡¯s right¡­ that ¡®s the way to optimise powr out of your mill.? It does involve an oil change every few operatins for a very few miles

?

?

Larry Botheras

?

Essex UK

W650 Wrench

2007 Moto Guzzi Norge

1977 KH400

1978 CD175

1994 Ural Solo

?

?

?

From: W650riders@... [mailto:W650riders@...] On Behalf Of Jon Haddock
Sent: 17 July 2007 20:41
To: W650riders@...
Subject: [W650riders] Re: Oil/ Oil Additives

?

Ferraris and Porsches DEFINITELY get their rings broken in at the
factory before they are sold. They power part of the Porsche factory
from the dynos. This is because they are obliged to guarantee a
minimum power output and the only way to ensure this is to bed the
rings properly. They do this by loading the motor and revving it to
the red line several times. The cycling of hard load and relax to
idle super-heats the rings while they are still rough, melting the
ring's high spots and creating a smooth gas tight surfce. The rapid
drop to idle in-between the rev-outs bathes the rings in cooling oil
vapour.
Several race car engine bulders do the same thing, and in fact if you
baby a motor without doing this as your first action, the rings will
never properly bed-in.

Synthetics cannot stop this initial high spot heating and
melting...They're good but not THAT good...they only manage around
100 deg C above mineral oils before they break down. That's enough to
guarantee zero wear at normal engine temps, but they'll run-in fine
during those initial few bursts.

Jon

> That's not entirely true. New engines that are perfectly honed
from the factory don't require ring-seating and can use synthetic
from the get go. If you rebuild your engines at home and have less
than perfect equipment, as I do, you STILL need to seat your rings
with fossil oil. They will take ten times as long, if ever, to seat
using synthetic oil.
>
> Ray Nielsen wrote: --- In
W650riders@..., "bufallobiff"
> wrote:
> >
> > ---Moto-Guzzi has synthetic in them from the factory and it's
> > the "break in" oil.
> >
> Break in oils these days are regular motor oils. Mobil 1's web site
> used to have a FAQ section where they addressed
the
> issue of break in vs. synthetic oil.
>
> They noted that some Corvettes, Aston-Martins, Porsches and a few
> other brands came from the factory with Mobil 1 in the crankcase.
> In a nutshell, NO problems with using a synthetic during break in.
>
> I've changed to Mobil 1 in my new bikes at the first change
> interval, usually around 600 miles. No problems and many have
> achieved high mileage (several over 100 K miles). These bikes ran
> the gamut from a 1100cc Gold Wing, a Suzuki Burgman scooter, W650,
> Bandit 1200, Suzuki Boulevard M50 and more that I can't remember --
> about 15-18 bikes in the last 24 years.
>
> Just my two bits worth.
>
> Ray Nielsen, in Minneapolis.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.
> Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.
>
Re: Ride your bike to work day

Larry Botheras
 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Yep, can¡¯t remember where I saw it¡­

?

?

Larry Botheras

?

Essex UK

W650 Wrench

2007 Moto Guzzi Norge

1977 KH400

1978 CD175

1994 Ural Solo

?

?

?

From: W650riders@... [mailto:W650riders@...] On Behalf Of Keith Williams
Sent: 17 July 2007 06:16
To: W650 riders
Subject: [W650riders] Ride your bike to work day

?

The SABMAG groupe says Wednesday is Ride Your Bike To Work Day.? I hadn't seen it mentioned elsewhere.?? Keith Williams
Re: Oil/ Oil Additives

 

Ferraris and Porsches DEFINITELY get their rings broken in at the
factory before they are sold. They power part of the Porsche factory
from the dynos. This is because they are obliged to guarantee a
minimum power output and the only way to ensure this is to bed the
rings properly. They do this by loading the motor and revving it to
the red line several times. The cycling of hard load and relax to
idle super-heats the rings while they are still rough, melting the
ring's high spots and creating a smooth gas tight surfce. The rapid
drop to idle in-between the rev-outs bathes the rings in cooling oil
vapour.
Several race car engine bulders do the same thing, and in fact if you
baby a motor without doing this as your first action, the rings will
never properly bed-in.

Synthetics cannot stop this initial high spot heating and
melting...They're good but not THAT good...they only manage around
100 deg C above mineral oils before they break down. That's enough to
guarantee zero wear at normal engine temps, but they'll run-in fine
during those initial few bursts.

Jon

That's not entirely true. New engines that are perfectly honed
from the factory don't require ring-seating and can use synthetic
from the get go. If you rebuild your engines at home and have less
than perfect equipment, as I do, you STILL need to seat your rings
with fossil oil. They will take ten times as long, if ever, to seat
using synthetic oil.

Ray Nielsen <rnielse1@...> wrote: --- In
W650riders@..., "bufallobiff" <mschuder@>
wrote:

---Moto-Guzzi has synthetic in them from the factory and it's
the "break in" oil.
Break in oils these days are regular motor oils. Mobil 1's web site
<www.mobil1.com> used to have a FAQ section where they addressed
the
issue of break in vs. synthetic oil.

They noted that some Corvettes, Aston-Martins, Porsches and a few
other brands came from the factory with Mobil 1 in the crankcase.
In a nutshell, NO problems with using a synthetic during break in.

I've changed to Mobil 1 in my new bikes at the first change
interval, usually around 600 miles. No problems and many have
achieved high mileage (several over 100 K miles). These bikes ran
the gamut from a 1100cc Gold Wing, a Suzuki Burgman scooter, W650,
Bandit 1200, Suzuki Boulevard M50 and more that I can't remember --
about 15-18 bikes in the last 24 years.

Just my two bits worth.

Ray Nielsen, in Minneapolis.






---------------------------------
Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.
Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.
Re: Ride your bike to work day

[email protected]
 

http://www.ridetowork.org/

In a message dated 7/17/2007 4:02:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, larry.botheras@... writes:

Yep, can¡¯t remember where I saw it¡­
?

Larry Botheras
Essex UK

W650 Wrench

2007 Moto Guzzi Norge

1977 KH400

1978 CD175

1994 Ural Solo

?

?

?

From: W650riders@... [mailto:W650riders@...] On Behalf Of Keith Williams
Sent: 17 July 2007 06:16
To: W650 riders
Subject: [W650riders] Ride your bike to work day





The SABMAG groupe says Wednesday is Ride Your Bike To Work Day.? I hadn't seen it mentioned elsewhere.?? Keith Williams


Rrrose.
@>-->--

Re: Ride your bike to work day

[email protected]
 

It is.? I thought I'd posted that here?

In a message dated 7/17/2007 3:34:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kwilliams1936@... writes:


The SABMAG groupe says Wednesday is Ride Your Bike To Work Day.? I hadn't seen it mentioned elsewhere.?? Keith Williams



Rrrose.
@>-->--

Re: Change in Mufflers

Ruari McLennan
 

I can't answer that, Brent, but it seems to me that if you cut at the right place & allow for re-introduction of a reducer sleeve sized to fit between the outer and inner header pipe you could slide it in between the two; leave some of it extended; and then clamp back onto it the old mufflers, which theoretically butt up against the outer header pipe.

What info do you have as to the right place to perform the cut, I'd be innterested?

Ruari

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brent Burtschell" <burtschell@...>
To: <W650riders@...>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 8:51 AM
Subject: [W650riders] Change in Mufflers


I have a 2000 model W650 with mufflers that are welded on to the head
pipes (factory installation). I've been considering a change to
Dunstall replica type mufflers but have some reservations. Once the
original equipment mufflers are cut off, is there an easy way to
reattach them without having them look like a cobbled up mess? The
small covers at the pipe/muffler junction are tack welded on. From
all of the correspondence that I've seen so far, the main jets are
likely to be close to the right size. I have a Dynojet kit with jets,
needles,springs, etc., and it appears that the modification would
benefit from at least the needle change. Some correspondence has also
recommended the exact point at which the Mufflers should be cut off.

Has anyone done this modification and then reattached the original
mufflers? It looks like a sleeve could be fabricated to clamp to the
head pipes and the original mufflers, but I'm not sure how clean it would look.

Brent Burtschell
Los Alamos, New Mexico



Go to temporary photos site - ::
Send an email to W650riders-nomail@... to stop email delivery. ::
Send an email to W650riders-normal@... to resume email delivery.
Yahoo! Groups Links
fork spring suggestions, please

Drew W
 

Hello - Being that this is a well-worn topic, I was hoping to find
what I was looking for by searching the archives. Alas, no *clear*
answers. So, I'm hoping to get some help from this great group.

I live in San Francisco and most of my riding is here in the City.
The roads here are a bit dodgy and I'm also not too keen on the
proverbial nose dive the W takes on hard braking (a frequent
occurrence for us city riders). So, I'm looking to upgrade my
springs with progressives.

I know where to get the Hagons, but they are rather pricey. I also
know where to get Progressive springs (much less expensive, but
require a spacer). And, my mechanic just threw out a third choice -
Race Tech springs (which are in between the other two in price).

So, for those of you who have done this upgrade, my questions are:

1) which springs do you recommend (is there any that you strongly
recommend AGAINST)?
2) for those that require a spacer, have you found any
issues/challenges/tips with this?
3) does anyone have a good source for the Race Tech fork springs?

Thank you!
drew
Re: Oil/ Oil Additives

Martin Taylor
 

another word for the old fashioned concept of running in the engine. The rings will eventually get a heat glaze on them after the rough bits have worn off. Using a super slippery oil just delays the process. Probably best not to over rev the motor for the first couple of hundred miles.

________________________________

From: W650riders@... on behalf of Ruari McLennan
Sent: Tue 17/07/2007 17:30
To: W650riders@...
Subject: Re: [W650riders] Re: Oil/ Oil Additives



Why is that? And what is "seating" the rings?

Ruari

----- Original Message -----
From: john gary simpson <mailto:eustisgary@...>

If you rebuild your engines at home and have less than perfect equipment, as I do, you STILL need to seat your rings with fossil oil. They will take ten times as long, if ever, to seat using synthetic oil.
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