why would you want to?
________________________________
From: W650riders@... on behalf of ADRIAN
Sent: Tue 17/07/2007 17:21
To: W650riders@...
Subject: [W650riders] NWC - RETRO jAWAS
<>
Check this out - you can buy retro Jawas now!
Adrian
|
Re: Ride your bike to work day
--- In W650riders@..., Keith Williams <kwilliams1936@...> wrote:
The SABMAG groupe says Wednesday is Ride Your Bike To Work Day. I
hadn't seen it mentioned elsewhere. Keith Williams Same as any other day for me :-) Might be nice if it stayed dry for both journeys ! Pete
|
I’ve never been brave enough to use the technique on a new motor,
but Jon’s right… that ‘s the way to optimise powr out of your mill.? It does
involve an oil change every few operatins for a very few miles
?
?
Larry Botheras
?
Essex UK
W650 Wrench
2007 Moto Guzzi Norge
1977 KH400
1978 CD175
1994 Ural Solo
?
?
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: W650riders@...
[mailto:W650riders@...] On Behalf Of Jon Haddock
Sent: 17 July 2007 20:41
To: W650riders@...
Subject: [W650riders] Re: Oil/ Oil Additives
?
Ferraris and Porsches DEFINITELY get their
rings broken in at the
factory before they are sold. They power part of the Porsche factory
from the dynos. This is because they are obliged to guarantee a
minimum power output and the only way to ensure this is to bed the
rings properly. They do this by loading the motor and revving it to
the red line several times. The cycling of hard load and relax to
idle super-heats the rings while they are still rough, melting the
ring's high spots and creating a smooth gas tight surfce. The rapid
drop to idle in-between the rev-outs bathes the rings in cooling oil
vapour.
Several race car engine bulders do the same thing, and in fact if you
baby a motor without doing this as your first action, the rings will
never properly bed-in.
Synthetics cannot stop this initial high spot heating and
melting...They're good but not THAT good...they only manage around
100 deg C above mineral oils before they break down. That's enough to
guarantee zero wear at normal engine temps, but they'll run-in fine
during those initial few bursts.
Jon
> That's not entirely true. New engines that are perfectly honed
from the factory don't require ring-seating and can use synthetic
from the get go. If you rebuild your engines at home and have less
than perfect equipment, as I do, you STILL need to seat your rings
with fossil oil. They will take ten times as long, if ever, to seat
using synthetic oil.
>
> Ray Nielsen wrote: --- In
W650riders@...,
"bufallobiff"
> wrote:
> >
> > ---Moto-Guzzi has synthetic in them from the factory and it's
> > the "break in" oil.
> >
> Break in oils these days are regular motor oils. Mobil 1's web site
> used to have a FAQ section where they addressed
the
> issue of break in vs. synthetic oil.
>
> They noted that some Corvettes, Aston-Martins, Porsches and a few
> other brands came from the factory with Mobil 1 in the crankcase.
> In a nutshell, NO problems with using a synthetic during break in.
>
> I've changed to Mobil 1 in my new bikes at the first change
> interval, usually around 600 miles. No problems and many have
> achieved high mileage (several over 100 K miles). These bikes ran
> the gamut from a 1100cc Gold Wing, a Suzuki Burgman scooter, W650,
> Bandit 1200, Suzuki Boulevard M50 and more that I can't remember --
> about 15-18 bikes in the last 24 years.
>
> Just my two bits worth.
>
> Ray Nielsen, in Minneapolis.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.
> Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.
>
|
Re: Ride your bike to work day
Yep, can’t remember where I saw it…
?
?
Larry Botheras
?
Essex UK
W650 Wrench
2007 Moto Guzzi Norge
1977 KH400
1978 CD175
1994 Ural Solo
?
?
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: W650riders@...
[mailto:W650riders@...] On Behalf Of Keith Williams
Sent: 17 July 2007 06:16
To: W650 riders
Subject: [W650riders] Ride your bike to work day
?
The SABMAG groupe says Wednesday is Ride Your Bike To Work Day.? I
hadn't seen it mentioned elsewhere.?? Keith Williams
|
Ferraris and Porsches DEFINITELY get their rings broken in at the factory before they are sold. They power part of the Porsche factory from the dynos. This is because they are obliged to guarantee a minimum power output and the only way to ensure this is to bed the rings properly. They do this by loading the motor and revving it to the red line several times. The cycling of hard load and relax to idle super-heats the rings while they are still rough, melting the ring's high spots and creating a smooth gas tight surfce. The rapid drop to idle in-between the rev-outs bathes the rings in cooling oil vapour. Several race car engine bulders do the same thing, and in fact if you baby a motor without doing this as your first action, the rings will never properly bed-in. Synthetics cannot stop this initial high spot heating and melting...They're good but not THAT good...they only manage around 100 deg C above mineral oils before they break down. That's enough to guarantee zero wear at normal engine temps, but they'll run-in fine during those initial few bursts. Jon That's not entirely true. New engines that are perfectly honed from the factory don't require ring-seating and can use synthetic from the get go. If you rebuild your engines at home and have less than perfect equipment, as I do, you STILL need to seat your rings with fossil oil. They will take ten times as long, if ever, to seat using synthetic oil.
Ray Nielsen <rnielse1@...> wrote: --- In
W650riders@..., "bufallobiff" <mschuder@> wrote:
---Moto-Guzzi has synthetic in them from the factory and it's
the "break in" oil.
Break in oils these days are regular motor oils. Mobil 1's web site
<www.mobil1.com> used to have a FAQ section where they addressed the issue of break in vs. synthetic oil.
They noted that some Corvettes, Aston-Martins, Porsches and a few
other brands came from the factory with Mobil 1 in the crankcase.
In a nutshell, NO problems with using a synthetic during break in.
I've changed to Mobil 1 in my new bikes at the first change
interval, usually around 600 miles. No problems and many have
achieved high mileage (several over 100 K miles). These bikes ran
the gamut from a 1100cc Gold Wing, a Suzuki Burgman scooter, W650,
Bandit 1200, Suzuki Boulevard M50 and more that I can't remember --
about 15-18 bikes in the last 24 years.
Just my two bits worth.
Ray Nielsen, in Minneapolis.
---------------------------------
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Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.
|
Re: Ride your bike to work day
http://www.ridetowork.org/
In a message dated 7/17/2007 4:02:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, larry.botheras@... writes:
Yep, can’t remember where I saw it…
?
Larry Botheras
Essex UK
W650 Wrench
2007 Moto Guzzi Norge
1977 KH400
1978 CD175
1994 Ural Solo
?
?
?
From: W650riders@... [mailto:W650riders@...] On Behalf Of Keith Williams
Sent: 17 July 2007 06:16
To: W650 riders
Subject: [W650riders] Ride your bike to work day
The SABMAG groupe says Wednesday is Ride Your Bike To Work Day.? I hadn't seen it mentioned elsewhere.?? Keith Williams
Rrrose.
@>-->--
|
Re: Ride your bike to work day
It is.? I thought I'd posted that here?
In a message dated 7/17/2007 3:34:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kwilliams1936@... writes:
The SABMAG groupe says Wednesday is Ride Your Bike To Work Day.? I hadn't seen it mentioned elsewhere.?? Keith Williams
Rrrose.
@>-->--
|
I can't answer that, Brent, but it seems to me that if you cut at the right place & allow for re-introduction of a reducer sleeve sized to fit between the outer and inner header pipe you could slide it in between the two; leave some of it extended; and then clamp back onto it the old mufflers, which theoretically butt up against the outer header pipe.
What info do you have as to the right place to perform the cut, I'd be innterested?
Ruari
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message ----- From: "Brent Burtschell" <burtschell@...> To: <W650riders@...> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 8:51 AM Subject: [W650riders] Change in Mufflers I have a 2000 model W650 with mufflers that are welded on to the head
pipes (factory installation). I've been considering a change to
Dunstall replica type mufflers but have some reservations. Once the
original equipment mufflers are cut off, is there an easy way to
reattach them without having them look like a cobbled up mess? The
small covers at the pipe/muffler junction are tack welded on. From
all of the correspondence that I've seen so far, the main jets are
likely to be close to the right size. I have a Dynojet kit with jets,
needles,springs, etc., and it appears that the modification would
benefit from at least the needle change. Some correspondence has also
recommended the exact point at which the Mufflers should be cut off.
Has anyone done this modification and then reattached the original
mufflers? It looks like a sleeve could be fabricated to clamp to the
head pipes and the original mufflers, but I'm not sure how clean it would look.
Brent Burtschell
Los Alamos, New Mexico
Go to temporary photos site - ::
Send an email to W650riders-nomail@... to stop email delivery. ::
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Yahoo! Groups Links
|
fork spring suggestions, please
Hello - Being that this is a well-worn topic, I was hoping to find
what I was looking for by searching the archives. Alas, no *clear*
answers. So, I'm hoping to get some help from this great group.
I live in San Francisco and most of my riding is here in the City.
The roads here are a bit dodgy and I'm also not too keen on the
proverbial nose dive the W takes on hard braking (a frequent
occurrence for us city riders). So, I'm looking to upgrade my
springs with progressives.
I know where to get the Hagons, but they are rather pricey. I also
know where to get Progressive springs (much less expensive, but
require a spacer). And, my mechanic just threw out a third choice -
Race Tech springs (which are in between the other two in price).
So, for those of you who have done this upgrade, my questions are:
1) which springs do you recommend (is there any that you strongly
recommend AGAINST)?
2) for those that require a spacer, have you found any
issues/challenges/tips with this?
3) does anyone have a good source for the Race Tech fork springs?
Thank you!
drew
|
another word for the old fashioned concept of running in the engine. The rings will eventually get a heat glaze on them after the rough bits have worn off. Using a super slippery oil just delays the process. Probably best not to over rev the motor for the first couple of hundred miles.
________________________________
From: W650riders@... on behalf of Ruari McLennan
Sent: Tue 17/07/2007 17:30
To: W650riders@...
Subject: Re: [W650riders] Re: Oil/ Oil Additives
Why is that? And what is "seating" the rings?
Ruari
----- Original Message -----
From: john gary simpson <mailto:eustisgary@...>
If you rebuild your engines at home and have less than perfect equipment, as I do, you STILL need to seat your rings with fossil oil. They will take ten times as long, if ever, to seat using synthetic oil.
|
Why is that?? And what is "seating" the
rings?
?
Ruari
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message -----
? If you rebuild your engines at home
and have less than perfect equipment, as I do, you STILL need to seat your
rings with fossil oil.? They will take ten times as long, if ever, to
seat using synthetic oil.
|
?
?
Check this out - you can buy retro Jawas
now!
?
Adrian
|
I have a 2000 model W650 with mufflers that are welded on to the head pipes (factory installation). I've been considering a change to Dunstall replica type mufflers but have some reservations. Once the original equipment mufflers are cut off, is there an easy way to reattach them without having them look like a cobbled up mess? The small covers at the pipe/muffler junction are tack welded on. From all of the correspondence that I've seen so far, the main jets are likely to be close to the right size. I have a Dynojet kit with jets, needles,springs, etc., and it appears that the modification would benefit from at least the needle change. Some correspondence has also recommended the exact point at which the Mufflers should be cut off.
Has anyone done this modification and then reattached the original mufflers? It looks like a sleeve could be fabricated to clamp to the head pipes and the original mufflers, but I'm not sure how clean it would look.
Brent Burtschell
Los Alamos, New Mexico
|
That's not entirely true.? New engines that are perfectly honed from the factory don't require ring-seating and can use synthetic from the get go.? If you rebuild your engines at home and have less than perfect equipment, as I do, you STILL need to seat your rings with fossil oil.? They will take ten times as long, if ever, to seat using synthetic oil. Ray Nielsen wrote: --- In W650riders@yahoogroups.com, "bufallobiff"
.> wrote: > > ---Moto-Guzzi has synthetic in them from the factory and it's > the "break in" oil. > Break in oils these days are regular motor oils. Mobil 1's web site com> used to have a FAQ section where they addressed the issue of break in vs. synthetic oil. They noted that some Corvettes, Aston-Martins, Porsches and a few other brands came from the factory with Mobil 1 in the crankcase. In a nutshell, NO problems with using a synthetic during break in. I've changed to Mobil 1 in my new bikes at the first change interval, usually around 600 miles. No problems and many have achieved high mileage (several over 100 K miles). These bikes ran the gamut from a 1100cc Gold Wing, a Suzuki Burgman scooter, W650, Bandit 1200, Suzuki Boulevard M50 and more that I can't remember -- about 15-18 bikes in the last 24 years. Just my two bits
worth. Ray Nielsen, in Minneapolis.
Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.
|
--- In W650riders@..., "bufallobiff" <mschuder@...> wrote:
---Moto-Guzzi has synthetic in them from the factory and it's
the "break in" oil.
Break in oils these days are regular motor oils. Mobil 1's web site <www.mobil1.com> used to have a FAQ section where they addressed the issue of break in vs. synthetic oil. They noted that some Corvettes, Aston-Martins, Porsches and a few other brands came from the factory with Mobil 1 in the crankcase. In a nutshell, NO problems with using a synthetic during break in. I've changed to Mobil 1 in my new bikes at the first change interval, usually around 600 miles. No problems and many have achieved high mileage (several over 100 K miles). These bikes ran the gamut from a 1100cc Gold Wing, a Suzuki Burgman scooter, W650, Bandit 1200, Suzuki Boulevard M50 and more that I can't remember -- about 15-18 bikes in the last 24 years. Just my two bits worth. Ray Nielsen, in Minneapolis.
|
Re: W on Route 7 Eastbound ?
On Mon, Jul 16, 2007 at 03:38:33PM -0000, jv_roberts2000 wrote: So, Greg, how's your dubya running now?? The carb ever get cleaned
out OK?? No :( I need to start looking at it because I think it is somthing besides 'junk' in the carb. But I am curently traveling and wi/o much time to look.
|
Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 1:19
PM
Subject: Re: [W650riders] Re: Thinking
about getting rid of my w650
balaclava hair :-)
laura
On 16/07/07, Hazel
Clarke <hazel@hazelclarke.orangehome.co.uk
> wrote:
That makes sense.? My car might be small
but it is also bright pink and quite conspicuous; I've lost count of the
number of drivers of bigger vehicles who have pulled out in front of me -
usually, I know they have seen me and must have dismissed me as not being a
threat.? A machine gun would help a lot! Or perhaps I could just wear a
balaclava when driving?and look a bit sinister? Although that might
cause other problems.....
?
?
-----
Original Message -----
Sent:
Monday, July 16, 2007 6:12 PM
Subject:
Re: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
?
That
ties in with what I've come to realise. When something in your vicinity
presents itself as a threat, you remember it and keep it within your
mind's sphere of awareness. When something does not threaten you, you
dismiss it. That's why people say 'I didn't see you'. They DID see you,
but they dismissed you from their perception because we only register
predators or prey.
?
Ironically,
the more safety clothing you wear, the more mainstream and unthreatening
you appear and the less you register as a threat to people. Ergo, they
pull out in front of you.
?
Less
fluorescent jackets and more machine guns...That's the ticket!
The ones you see today are yuppies trying to look
bad.? Half of them have fake pony tails attached to their do-rags.
They want to?look like?the guy they were afraid of when they
were younger!? These days it's so widely known that most of them
are hairdressers, CPA's or lawyers, that the mystique is long
gone.? Nobody is afraid of a motorcyclist anymore, and that's
a? shame.? I was a lot safer on my bike when people were
afraid of bikers. They gave me plenty of room, and NO ONE pulled out in
front of me.? Nowadays, riding is scary to the
biker!
"Jonhaddock@" <jonhaddock@onetel.net>
wrote:
He was trying. I'm sure that the majority of Harley owners
like to blat about slowly. That was never my issue unless they
hold traffic up, which is when they become as arrogant and as low
down the pecking order as caravanners who don't pull over for
people...but I digress. My issue with the majoritry of Harley
riders is that they buy a Harley becauase they want to be seen as
outlaws and the whole pipes thing is a reflection of that. The
entire outlaw culture is as you know, mostly in the minds of people
predujiced against motorcycles so what these ignorent twats are
doing are actually creating a stereotype which ironically almost
didn't exist. You see a hellova lot more mean dudes on stupidly
loud Harleys today than you ever did 20 years ago...And I lived
one street away from the South Coast Angels HQ for 5 years in the
'90's. Back then, there was the odd 'I'm a friend of the Angels'
dickhead on his stolen and matt black Kawasaki 440 Ltd but that
was about it. Now, they are chugging about in
packs... Jon > maybe that guy was trying but the
majority of Sportster riders are happy > to > cruise
around which is why they buy this type of bike in the first
place. > Unlike you I no longer feel that I have to compete with
other riders so I > just ride at the speed I feel happiest with
at the time and if others want > to roar past me then so be it.
Having said that sometimes I am the one > doing > the
passing.for this reason I can enjoy both my bikes in
completely > different ways > Dick > ----- Original
Message ----- > From: " Jonhaddock@onetel.net" < jonhaddock@onetel.net> > To: < W650riders@yahoogroups.com> > Sent:
Monday, July 16, 2007 12:04 PM > Subject: Re: [W650riders] Re:
Thinking about getting rid of my
w650 > > >> >> No, this guy came gunning
past on a bend while I was accelerating out of >>
a >> thirty limit. I was two up and was taking it easy
accordingly. His >> exhausts >> were loud enough to
startle me. I knew he and his mates were behind and >>
so >> I >> was not only keeping well in front so as
not to inconvenience them, but I >> had shifted down into
fourth to ensure I would be accelerating briskly so >> any
cruising Harleys would be able to blat away without getting any
pesky >> Jap bikes in the way of their stately progress. He
was trying about as >> hard >> as he could. I was
doing 95 in third, shifting into fourth, and cranked >>
hard >> over when I went past him and the Harley's induction
note still drowned >> out >> the W...He was wide
open and trying
hard. >> >> > > > > Go to
temporary photos site - :: > Send an
email to W650riders-nomail@yahoogroups.com to stop
email delivery. > :: > Send an email to W650riders-normal@yahoogroups.com to
resume email > delivery. > Yahoo! Groups
Links > > > > > > -- > No
virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free
Edition. > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.6/902 -
Release Date: 15/07/2007 > 14:21 > >
Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the mail, news, photos &
more.
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free
Edition.
Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.6/902 - Release
Date: 15/07/2007 14:21
|
Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
|
My dealer had used spacers for the chrome oil filter cover
some time ago.
?
At the last oil change (and rear tire) early in July, Kawasaki supplied a
revised chrome oil filter cover to fit the new filter,
?
Chris Spence,
2000 W650
St.Catharines Ontario Canada
?
|
Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
The V-Max is an impressive motor and makes a great swap into a Royal Star.? But I stand on my statement (which has NOTHING to do with performance), the Harley Big Twin is the bib block Chevvy of the motorcycle world - big bore, power in the bottom end, limited rpm. You gotta remember that the 348 and 454 were designed as truck engines. Only the 396 was designed as a race engine. Your essays are comparing apples with oranges, so there's no point to be made.? Like I said before, if you're gonna compare harley with Jap bikes, make your comparisons with the Jap big twins that are market positioend with Harley, and have made a small dent in Harley's market. As for a panacke engine sound, you're speaking of the Jap twins, with their offset cranks, not the Harley Twin which is actually a two-cylinder radial engine. It sounds more like a V8 than a VW! James Franklin wrote: The V-Max still holds the motorcycle record for 60 MPH to 80 MPH roll on.
Yes, it does sound more like a 327 small block than a 454, but even at that,
a small block V-8 is closer to a large block V-8 sound, than the VW pancake
4 sounding big twin.
I can't even tell you how many impressive stories I have heard about HD
performance at track side while watching everything else pass the HDs.
Harley's only record, world land speed, is held by a V-8, not a V-Twin.
Harleys still feel like they are accelerating hard when the other, smoother
bikes are rolling away from them.
The Evos were an impressive improvement over the Shovels, but the HP #s you
quote are well beyond anything that would last..the crank isn't strong
enough, niether are the rods..it is because of weak parts that S&S became
what they are today.
James Franklin
2411 Pine Summit DR.
E
Jacksonville, Florida 32211
808-225-0994 (cell)
From: john gary simpson
Reply-To: W650riders@...
To: W650riders@...
Subject: Re: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 08:01:45 -0700 (PDT)
I don't know what your experience with Harleys is, but I have built many EVO
Harleys to better than 90 horsepower and never had one fail yet. The stock
crank is good for a build to better than 120 hp. The V-max and Magnas are
high rev motors with scant similarity to stump-pulling big blocks. More
power? Of course. But totally different character, more akin to small block
Chevvies that make their power high up (like my 8000 rpm built 65 fuelie
engine in my MGTF) If you want to classify any Japanese engines as having
big block Chevy character, start with the myriad of big inch Japanese twins
that are desparately trying
to carve into Harley's cruiser market.
James Franklin wrote: The list of bikes that will
roll away from a Harley without downshifting or
over revving, is too long to list here.
The Harley is closer compared to a John Deer than a big block Chevy..you
want the sound and feel of a Chevy V-8, you want a Yamaha V-Max, or a Honda
1100 Magna.
The Evos made about 60 HP, but their crank came from a 35 HP design..leave
the engine alone, put a tuned but less restrive pipe on it, it was just
find, but build it to make 80 - 90 HP, you have a grenade.
James Franklin
2411 Pine Summit DR. E
Jacksonville, Florida 32211
808-225-0994 (cell)
From: john gary simpson
Reply-To: W650riders@...
To: W650riders@...
Subject: Re: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 04:13:46 -0700 (PDT)
I'm speaking as a
prior owner. In regard to smooth shifting, vibration and
top-heaviness, I agree. In terms of riding balance and handling, both my
883 and my1200 were good bikes. In terms of performance, my 883 was a
slacker, but my 1200 would haul butt. In terms of reliability and ease of
maintenance, all of my Harleys were hands down the most reliable and easist
to work on. But it's the intangibles that make the Harley a Harley - the
feel of the engine at mid and low throttle, the styling, the personality. As
the old saying goes, if ya gotta ask... On performance, all stock harleys
are extremely restricted and can easiloy and cheaply make 25% to 50% more
power. A stock EVO big twin averages 46 hp out of the box, and easily make
80hp with nothing but simple intake and exhaust changes. Most Japanese
bikes will stomp a Harley in an all-out drag, but at everyday loafing
throttle, a harley's huge low-end torque keeps it ahead of the pack
effortlessly.
Effort is the
key. Do you want to be revving your bike to the limit all of the time to
make it perform? The Harley is the big block Chevy of the motorcycle
world....shhesh; I'm about to talk myself into another harley....
"larry.botheras@..." wrote:
I'm afraid I am speaking from a position of knowledge... Second worst
bike I ever rode... the worst was an 883
----Original Message----
From: eustisgary@...
Date: 16/07/2007 1:41
To:
Subj: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
Have you actually ridden a 1200 Sporty?--- In
W650riders@..., "Larry Botheras"
wrote:
>
> Think long and hard. unless it's tricked up the 1200 sporty will
feel
> slower than the W IMHO, it's not that much more powerful (HD never
quote)
> but it is a lot heavier
>
>
>
> From: W650riders@...
[mailto:W650riders@...] On
>
Behalf Of John
> Sent: 11 July 2007 06:39
> To: W650riders@...
> Subject: [W650riders] Thinking about getting rid of my w650
>
>
>
> I found a sportster 1200r that's tempting me to get rid of the w.
What
> are your thoughts on the 2006 sportster 1200 roadster?
>
___________________________________________________________
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who are looking for what you sell.
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