Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
I rode an 05 1200r which in 04 and 05 the 1200r had more compresion than the standard 1200. The 1200r also has dual discs up front, a tach, and a wider bar for better handling. My impressions of the ride were as follows, at 40 mph I felt like i was going faster then the W going 65. I think its all the torque in your face but when I rode that sporty it really made my heart pump. The w650 feels to tame, i need to go 80 and above to feel some excitement on it. It was last year since I rode that sporty 1200r and ever since then I've wanted to get back on one. --- In W650riders@..., "James Franklin" <jimw650@...> wrote:
The list of bikes that will roll away from a Harley without
downshifting or over revving, is too long to list here.
The Harley is closer compared to a John Deer than a big block Chevy..you want the sound and feel of a Chevy V-8, you want a Yamaha V-Max, or a Honda 1100 Magna.
The Evos made about 60 HP, but their crank came from a 35 HP design..leave the engine alone, put a tuned but less restrive pipe on it, it was just
find, but build it to make 80 - 90 HP, you have a grenade.
James Franklin
2411 Pine Summit DR. E
Jacksonville, Florida 32211
808-225-0994 (cell)
From: john gary simpson <eustisgary@...>
Reply-To: W650riders@...
To: W650riders@...
Subject: Re: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 04:13:46 -0700 (PDT)
I'm speaking as a prior owner. In regard to smooth shifting, vibration and top-heaviness, I agree. In terms of riding balance and handling, both my 883 and my1200 were good bikes. In terms of performance, my 883 was a
slacker, but my 1200 would haul butt. In terms of reliability and ease of maintenance, all of my Harleys were hands down the most reliable and easist to work on. But it's the intangibles that make the Harley a Harley - the feel of the engine at mid and low throttle, the styling, the personality. As the old saying goes, if ya gotta ask... On performance, all stock harleys are extremely restricted and can easiloy and cheaply make 25% to 50% more power. A stock EVO big twin averages 46 hp out of the box, and easily make 80hp with nothing but simple intake and exhaust changes. Most Japanese
bikes will stomp a Harley in an all-out drag, but at everyday loafing
throttle, a harley's huge low-end torque keeps it ahead of the pack
effortlessly. Effort is the
key. Do you want to be revving your bike to the limit all of the time to make it perform? The Harley is the big block Chevy of the motorcycle
world....shhesh; I'm about to talk myself into another harley....
"larry.botheras@..." <larry.botheras@...> wrote:
I'm afraid I am speaking from a position of knowledge... Second worst bike I ever rode... the worst was an 883
----Original Message----
From: eustisgary@...
Date: 16/07/2007 1:41
To: <W650riders@...>
Subj: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
Have you actually ridden a 1200 Sporty?--- In
W650riders@..., "Larry Botheras" <larry.botheras@>
wrote:
>
> Think long and hard. unless it's tricked up the 1200 sporty will
feel
> slower than the W IMHO, it's not that much more powerful (HD never
quote)
> but it is a lot heavier
>
>
>
> From: W650riders@...
[mailto:W650riders@...] On
> Behalf Of John
> Sent: 11 July 2007 06:39
> To: W650riders@...
> Subject: [W650riders] Thinking about getting rid of my w650
>
>
>
> I found a sportster 1200r that's tempting me to get rid of the w.
What
> are your thoughts on the 2006 sportster 1200 roadster?
>
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---------------------------------
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Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
The list of bikes that will roll away from a Harley without downshifting or over revving, is too long to list here.
The Harley is closer compared to a John Deer than a big block Chevy..you want the sound and feel of a Chevy V-8, you want a Yamaha V-Max, or a Honda 1100 Magna.
The Evos made about 60 HP, but their crank came from a 35 HP design..leave the engine alone, put a tuned but less restrive pipe on it, it was just find, but build it to make 80 - 90 HP, you have a grenade.
James Franklin
2411 Pine Summit DR. E
Jacksonville, Florida 32211
808-225-0994 (cell)
From: john gary simpson <eustisgary@...>
Reply-To: W650riders@...
To: W650riders@...
Subject: Re: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 04:13:46 -0700 (PDT)
I'm speaking as a prior owner. In regard to smooth shifting, vibration and top-heaviness, I agree. In terms of riding balance and handling, both my 883 and my1200 were good bikes. In terms of performance, my 883 was a slacker, but my 1200 would haul butt. In terms of reliability and ease of maintenance, all of my Harleys were hands down the most reliable and easist to work on. But it's the intangibles that make the Harley a Harley - the feel of the engine at mid and low throttle, the styling, the personality. As the old saying goes, if ya gotta ask... On performance, all stock harleys are extremely restricted and can easiloy and cheaply make 25% to 50% more power. A stock EVO big twin averages 46 hp out of the box, and easily make 80hp with nothing but simple intake and exhaust changes. Most Japanese bikes will stomp a Harley in an all-out drag, but at everyday loafing throttle, a harley's huge low-end torque keeps it ahead of the pack effortlessly. Effort is the
key. Do you want to be revving your bike to the limit all of the time to make it perform? The Harley is the big block Chevy of the motorcycle world....shhesh; I'm about to talk myself into another harley....
"larry.botheras@..." <larry.botheras@...> wrote: I'm afraid I am speaking from a position of knowledge... Second worst bike I ever rode... the worst was an 883
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----Original Message---- From: eustisgary@... Date: 16/07/2007 1:41 To: <W650riders@...> Subj: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650 Have you actually ridden a 1200 Sporty?--- In W650riders@..., "Larry Botheras" <larry.botheras@...> wrote:
Think long and hard. unless it's tricked up the 1200 sporty will
feel slower than the W IMHO, it's not that much more powerful (HD never quote) but it is a lot heavier
From: W650riders@... [mailto:W650riders@...] On Behalf Of John
Sent: 11 July 2007 06:39
To: W650riders@...
Subject: [W650riders] Thinking about getting rid of my w650
I found a sportster 1200r that's tempting me to get rid of the w. What are your thoughts on the 2006 sportster 1200 roadster?
___________________________________________________________ Tiscali Broadband only 9.99 a month for your first 3 months! --------------------------------- Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. _________________________________________________________________
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Re: Leno and the Rockstore
Some time ago on this group a member mentioned a comment Jay Leno had made about seeing a dubya at the Rockstore once.....I don't recall the exact statement supposedly made but it was kinda slightly derogatory, maybe a little symbolically correct, and did at least acknowledge he recognizes the dubya and has given some thought to it. Anyone recall the comment?? I'm sure a search would bring it up though. Vernon Haven't seen another W here in the Los Angeles area either. We ride almost every Sunday to the Rockstore in Malibu, Cali, where you see pretty much every kind of motorcycle. Jay Leno always rides up with bizarre looking bikes or cars. Every time I ride up on the W, people just gather around it because they never seen one and most have no idea what it is. Matter of fact my husband was a little upset (haha) everyone is checking out my bike and not his pristine cafe racer 04 Triumph Thruxton.
|
Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
The Royal Star was a big disappointment for me when I rode one..the old 1983 Venture made 100 HP (almost same engine except 100cc less), the Royal Star made 65 HP and is geared so that 4th and 5th gear are over drives.. I don't need a "super bike", but I would like a road bike that could pass another vehicle without making an appointment. James Franklin 2411 Pine Summit DR. E Jacksonville, Florida 32211 808-225-0994 (cell) From: "john gary simpson" <eustisgary@...> Reply-To: W650riders@... To: W650riders@... Subject: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650 Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 11:45:05 -0000 Ooops, I take that back. Memory failed me this time. The absolute worst bike I ever owned was a Matchless 750. The Royal Star Palomino was a disappointment in performance, had horrible vibration due to Yamahas terrible decision to remove the balance shafts from their excellent engine, and handles heavier than a Harley with a 300 ppound passenger. Hut it STILL was a better motorcycle in every respect than my Matchless 750. The worst performing, but nearly the most fun, motorcycle I ever owned , was my URAL Patrol! Two-wheel drive rocks!--- In W650riders@..., john gary simpson <eustisgary@...> wrote:
For ME, the worst was a Royal Star Palomino - simply a gorgeous
pig.
Dick Tym <rocker66@...> wrote: ? So Pray tell us What
was the worse? Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: larry.botheras@...
To: W650riders@...
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 8:09 AM
Subject: Re: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
I'm afraid I am speaking from a position of knowledge... Second
worst bike I ever rode... the worst was an 883
----Original Message----
From: eustisgary@...
Date: 16/07/2007 1:41
To: <W650riders@...>
Subj: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
Have you actually ridden a 1200 Sporty?--- In
W650riders@..., "Larry Botheras" <larry.botheras@>
wrote:
Think long and hard. unless it's tricked up the 1200 sporty will
feel
slower than the W IMHO, it's not that much more powerful (HD
never quote)
but it is a lot heavier
From: W650riders@... [mailto:W650riders@...] On
Behalf Of John
Sent: 11 July 2007 06:39
To: W650riders@...
Subject: [W650riders] Thinking about getting rid of my w650
I found a sportster 1200r that's tempting me to get rid of the w. What
are your thoughts on the 2006 sportster 1200 roadster?
___________________________________________________________
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Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
No one that I know of just enlarged the 883 to 1200cc without pipes and usually an after market carb, but even at your $300 guesstimate..it costs $600 bucks more (higher initial cost plus heads/sleeves, pistons/rings) to make a Harley that was already bigger, to match the performance of a mild mannered 650 twin. If I were going to get a Sportster, it would have to be the Sportster Sport, and that would be just because I like the look and feel...buying a Harley for performance is like flying commercial airlines for peanuts or marrying for sex. James Franklin 2411 Pine Summit DR. E Jacksonville, Florida 32211 808-225-0994 (cell) From: john gary simpson <eustisgary@...> Reply-To: W650riders@... To: W650riders@... Subject: Re: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650 Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 20:23:38 -0700 (PDT) In my experience, changing an 883 into a 1200 is an afternoon's work and three hundred bucks. That makes the 883 comparison moot. James Franklin <jimw650@...> wrote: A stock 1200 Sportster is doing the 1/4 in 13.02...half a second quicker than the fastest W 650 I have ever seen a test on. At 100 MPH (the HDs terminal speed), 1/2 second would be about 75 feet ahead, the W rider would know he lost, but the Sportster rider would know he was close. The 1200 makes 64.4 HP, 20 more than a stock W. It's stock torque is 72.7 lb-ft at 3700 RPM, which would be around 70 MPH, or twice what the W has at that speed in 5th. A W, not even a 50 HP W, is not much of a roll-on challenge for a 1200 Sportster. But an 883, which costs (supposedly) closer to the W, really isn't in the same performance class. The 883 makes 43.1 HP, about two less than the average W, yet weighs 50 lbs more. the 883 makes 43 ft lbs torque at 4550 RPM, the W 37.5 5100 RPM (that is around 80 MPH for the W) The best 1/4 mile I have seen for an 883..15.16 sec at 88.33 MPH (that puts it right there with a good Honda CB 350 or a Suzuki X6 Hustler). The slowest W test I have is 14.33 @ 92.34 The W, when compared to the Sportster, is a revver. When you compare it to a stock 883, you get a lot more performance for your money. The 883 needs pipes, and a cam, with a little chip manipulation to match a stock W. Not much after market hi-perf stuff is available for the W, but the W is a retro, and it is quicker than a 60s Bonneville or Lightning. And the W is pretty low key, it has a compression ratio of only 8.4 to 1, whereas the Yamaha XS 650 was 10 to 1. Has anyone shaved the heads on a W to see what kind of power is available there? Jon, you just did pipes and jets and got 50 HP. Jon, you probably beat the rider, not the machine, if what you rolled away from was a 1200 and you did it in 5th gear, but there is no dishonor in downshifting if the other bike has a 500cc advantage. I have ridden a lot of Sportsters (883s/1000s/1200s)..none of the rubber mounted engine ones yet..but I never rode a Sportster as comfortable as the W, or as confidant at parking lot speeds. And I bet Lucy was much more comfortable on the back of your W than she would have been on that skinny slab HD provides for a passenger on the Sportster. James Franklin 2411 Pine Summit DR. E Jacksonville, Florida 32211 808-225-0994 (cell) From: "Jonhaddock@..." Reply-To: W650riders@... To: Subject: Re: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650 Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 01:56:42 +0100 Well a stock one isn't as quick as a W650 which is about as slow as modern motorcycles get....which makes the Sporty pretty slow. Certainly my warmed up W will beat a loud piped 1200 Sporty from 60 to 100 plus....two up.....And Lucy was on the back when we did it... A 1200 Sporty is by no means slow. It's about as fast a Harley
platform as there is. /--- In W650riders@..., "Alexander
Ward" wrote:
I've been lurking on this list for years, but now I have to chime
in
on this topic.
I think the Sportster is a great partner to the W650. I have both a
2000 W650 and a 1996 Sportster XL1200S Sport. The Sport has
adjustable Showa forks and dual front discs. If you add rearsets and
clipons and a decent seat, then it becomes a really fun scoot. '
No, it is not particularly fast, but the wide flat powerband
and more than ample torque combine with decent handling and braking
to make it easy to ride without requiring a lot of work. If you
switch to 17" wheels and sticky tires it gets even better. Don't
worry about the vibration if you buy an older one with a solid- mount
engine, just install BalanceMasters active vibration dampers and
fiddle with the final drive ratios (or even switch to chain drive)
and once it is dialed in, then just enjoy it.
Although any Japanese 600 can run rings around it, that is balanced
out by the double-takes from all of the head-to-toe leather-clad
dumplings on their cool Harleys who are cruising along at 30mph when
you pass them on the outside of a curve.
You do have to think about it though. One of the classic disparaging
comments about Harleys is that they vibrate so much that parts fall
off. It is true, too. the first time I rode the Sporty any
distance, both mirrors, the taillight, and one turn signal fell off.
I felt like I had finally gained admittance to a long and proud
tradition!
At any rate, keep the W650, get a Sportster too.
Alex
--- In W650riders@..., "Larry Botheras"
wrote:
Think long and hard. unless it's tricked up the 1200 sporty
will
feel
slower than the W IMHO, it's not that much more powerful (HD never
quote)
but it is a lot heavier
From: W650riders@... [mailto:W650riders@...] On
Behalf Of John
Sent: 11 July 2007 06:39
To: W650riders@...
Subject: [W650riders] Thinking about getting rid of my w650
I found a sportster 1200r that's tempting me to get rid of the w.
What
are your thoughts on the 2006 sportster 1200 roadster?
Go to temporary photos site - ::
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delivery.
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_________________________________________________________________ Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary! Go to temporary photos site - :: Send an email to W650riders-nomail@... to stop email delivery. :: Send an email to W650riders-normal@... to resume email delivery. Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. _________________________________________________________________
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Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
I'm one who buys into the character thing... I ride a Guzzi for that reason, own a KH400 and a Ural... The 883 and 1200 were ponderous in my view.? I never could find a sweet spot for either for UK road use.? they were either shaking my teeth loose or hitting the rev limiter.? I realise this is different strokes for different folks, but I have tried it and I don't understand it.
?
?
----Original Message----
From: eustisgary@...
Date: 16/07/2007 12:13
To:
Subj: Re: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
I'm speaking as a prior owner.? In regard to smooth shifting, vibration and top-heaviness, I agree.? In terms of riding balance and handling, both my 883 and my1200 were?good bikes.? In terms of performance,?my 883 was a slacker, but my 1200 would haul butt. In terms of reliability and ease of maintenance, all of my Harleys were hands down the most reliable and easist to work on. But it's the intangibles that make the Harley a Harley - the feel of the engine at mid and low throttle, the styling, the personality. As the old saying goes, if ya gotta ask... On performance, all stock harleys are extremely restricted and can easiloy and cheaply make 25% to 50% more power.?? A stock EVO big twin averages 46 hp out of the box, and easily make 80hp with nothing but simple intake and exhaust changes.? Most Japanese bikes will stomp a Harley in an all-out drag, but at everyday loafing throttle, a harley's huge low-end torque keeps it ahead of the pack effortlessly.? Effort is the key.? Do you want to be revving your bike to the limit all of the time to make it perform? The Harley is the big block Chevy of the motorcycle world....shhesh; I'm about to talk myself into another harley....
"larry.botheras@tiscali.co.uk" tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
I'm afraid I am speaking from a position of knowledge...? Second worst bike I ever rode... the worst was an 883
----Original Message----
From: eustisgary@yahoo.com
Date: 16/07/2007 1:41
To: ups.com>
Subj: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
Have you actually ridden a 1200 Sporty?--- In W650riders@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Botheras" ...> wrote: > > Think long and hard. unless it's tricked up the 1200 sporty will feel > slower than the W IMHO, it's not that much more powerful (HD never quote) > but it is a lot heavier > > > > From: W650riders@yahoogroups.com [mailto: W650riders@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of John > Sent: 11 July 2007 06:39 > To: W650riders@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [W650riders] Thinking about getting rid of my w650 > > > > I found a sportster 1200r that's tempting me to get rid of the w. What > are your thoughts on the 2006 sportster 1200 roadster? >
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Now that's room service! to find your fit.
Larry
Essex UK
W650 wrench....
'07 Moto Guzzi Norge 1200 GT
'77 KH 400
'78 CD 175
'94 Ural 650 Solo __________________________________________________ Tiscali Broadband only ?7.99 a month for your first 3 months! http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/
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Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
The Harley guys as a whole, that I rode with..few exceptions, never downshift, thinking that their immence torque will pull them through. Each time they tried the roll on game with the Venture, the story was the same..the Venture easily pulls away..even in top gear roll ons. A little research shows the Venture makes more HP from idle to redline than the big twin..at any given RPM..then too, the Venture is geared lower, so at 60, the Venture is pulling 1000 more RPM. Adam, last year, in the mountains of GA, fouled his spark plugs on his HD twin cam trying to stay in the same gear and motor away from turns with George's 1800 Gold Wing and Tommy's 1500 Gold Wing. Someone forgot to tell him that his Harley was way down on HP and torque in comparison to those bikes...his bike weighs a lot less, but that basically helps in standing starts and top speed, when bikes are close, it is not a big factor during mid-range motoring..and it wasn't close..a 1500 Wing has a 20 HP and 15 ft lbs advantage..the 1800 Wing puts 100 Ft lbs of torque on the ground with 100 HP too...30 lbs ft more, 30 HP more. James Franklin 2411 Pine Summit DR. E Jacksonville, Florida 32211 808-225-0994 (cell) From: "Jonhaddock@..." <jonhaddock@...> Reply-To: W650riders@... To: <W650riders@...> Subject: Re: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650 Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 11:37:49 +0100 It might make 20 bhp more but it is not only hauling a fair bit more weight, but it can't rev anywhere near as high at any given speed. The W can be always be at least one gear lower. THAT is what most people fail to factor in... rear wheel torque ( which is the ONLY torque that matters), is a product of engine torque minus transmission losses over gearbox ratio ... If you have 100lbsft over a 1:1 gear ratio you have 100 lbs ft If you have 50 lbs ft over a 0.5 to one ratio, you have 100 lbs ft That's why a weedy little Jap 600 can make a 1200cc Harley with all that crankshaft torque look like a garbage truck in the acceleration stakes. ....gearing and revs. A stock W is tailing off above 6500 rpm, an opened up one is still pulling at 8000. No tester worth his salt is going to waste his time revving a stock bike past 7000 so they shift up. My bike still has a 1000rpm left in that lower gear before I change...AND I'm dropping into the next higher gear with proportionally more power available. Basically, When that guy came past, I simply shifted down three gears....I never even saw top gear. The Sportster would have had to have been at least 3000 rpm lower at a similar speed and that is a VERY big difference in gear ratios to overcome. Jon A stock 1200 Sportster is doing the 1/4 in 13.02...half a second quicker
than the fastest W 650 I have ever seen a test on. At 100 MPH (the HDs
terminal speed), 1/2 second would be about 75 feet ahead, the W rider
would
know he lost, but the Sportster rider would know he was close.
The 1200 makes 64.4 HP, 20 more than a stock W.
It's stock torque is 72.7 lb-ft at 3700 RPM, which would be around 70 MPH, or twice what the W has at that speed in 5th.
A W, not even a 50 HP W, is not much of a roll-on challenge for a 1200
Sportster.
But an 883, which costs (supposedly) closer to the W, really isn't in the
same performance class.
The 883 makes 43.1 HP, about two less than the average W, yet weighs 50
lbs
more.
the 883 makes 43 ft lbs torque at 4550 RPM, the W 37.5 5100 RPM (that is
around 80 MPH for the W)
The best 1/4 mile I have seen for an 883..15.16 sec at 88.33 MPH (that
puts
it right there with a good Honda CB 350 or a Suzuki X6 Hustler). The
slowest W test I have is 14.33 @ 92.34
The W, when compared to the Sportster, is a revver. When you compare it
to
a stock 883, you get a lot more performance for your money. The 883 needs pipes, and a cam, with a little chip manipulation to match a stock W. Not much after market hi-perf stuff is available for the W, but the W is a
retro, and it is quicker than a 60s Bonneville or Lightning. And the W is pretty low key, it has a compression ratio of only 8.4 to 1, whereas the
Yamaha XS 650 was 10 to 1. Has anyone shaved the heads on a W to see what kind of power is available there? Jon, you just did pipes and jets and
got
50 HP.
Jon, you probably beat the rider, not the machine, if what you rolled away from was a 1200 and you did it in 5th gear, but there is no dishonor in
downshifting if the other bike has a 500cc advantage. I have ridden a lot
of
Sportsters (883s/1000s/1200s)..none of the rubber mounted engine ones
yet..but I never rode a Sportster as comfortable as the W, or as confidant at parking lot speeds. And I bet Lucy was much more comfortable on the
back
of your W than she would have been on that skinny slab HD provides for a
passenger on the Sportster.
James Franklin
2411 Pine Summit DR. E
Jacksonville, Florida 32211
808-225-0994 (cell)
From: "Jonhaddock@..." <jonhaddock@...>
Reply-To: W650riders@...
To: <W650riders@...>
Subject: Re: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 01:56:42 +0100
Well a stock one isn't as quick as a W650 which is about as slow as modern motorcycles get....which makes the Sporty pretty slow. Certainly my warmed up W will beat a loud piped 1200 Sporty from 60 to 100 plus....two
up.....And Lucy was on the back when we did it...
A 1200 Sporty is by no means slow. It's about as fast a Harley
platform as there is. /--- In W650riders@..., "Alexander
Ward" <award@...> wrote:
I've been lurking on this list for years, but now I have to chime
in
on this topic.
I think the Sportster is a great partner to the W650. I have both a
2000 W650 and a 1996 Sportster XL1200S Sport. The Sport has
adjustable Showa forks and dual front discs. If you add rearsets and
clipons and a decent seat, then it becomes a really fun scoot. '
No, it is not particularly fast, but the wide flat powerband
and more than ample torque combine with decent handling and braking
to make it easy to ride without requiring a lot of work. If you
switch to 17" wheels and sticky tires it gets even better. Don't
worry about the vibration if you buy an older one with a solid- mount
engine, just install BalanceMasters active vibration dampers and
fiddle with the final drive ratios (or even switch to chain drive)
and once it is dialed in, then just enjoy it.
Although any Japanese 600 can run rings around it, that is balanced
out by the double-takes from all of the head-to-toe leather-clad
dumplings on their cool Harleys who are cruising along at 30mph when
you pass them on the outside of a curve.
You do have to think about it though. One of the classic disparaging
comments about Harleys is that they vibrate so much that parts fall
off. It is true, too. the first time I rode the Sporty any
distance, both mirrors, the taillight, and one turn signal fell off.
I felt like I had finally gained admittance to a long and proud
tradition!
At any rate, keep the W650, get a Sportster too.
Alex
--- In W650riders@..., "Larry Botheras"
<larry.botheras@> wrote:
Think long and hard. unless it's tricked up the 1200 sporty
will
feel
slower than the W IMHO, it's not that much more powerful (HD never
quote)
but it is a lot heavier
From: W650riders@... [mailto:W650riders@...] On
Behalf Of John
Sent: 11 July 2007 06:39
To: W650riders@...
Subject: [W650riders] Thinking about getting rid of my w650
I found a sportster 1200r that's tempting me to get rid of the w.
What
are your thoughts on the 2006 sportster 1200 roadster?
Go to temporary photos site - ::
Send an email to W650riders-nomail@... to stop email delivery.
::
Send an email to W650riders-normal@... to resume email
delivery.
Yahoo! Groups Links
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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.6/900 - Release Date: 14/07/2007
15:36
_________________________________________________________________
Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!
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Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
Ooops, I take that back. Memory failed me this time. The absolute worst bike I ever owned was a Matchless 750. The Royal Star Palomino was a disappointment in performance, had horrible vibration due to Yamahas terrible decision to remove the balance shafts from their excellent engine, and handles heavier than a Harley with a 300 ppound passenger. Hut it STILL was a better motorcycle in every respect than my Matchless 750. The worst performing, but nearly the most fun, motorcycle I ever owned , was my URAL Patrol! Two-wheel drive rocks!--- In W650riders@..., john gary simpson <eustisgary@...> wrote:
For ME, the worst was a Royal Star Palomino - simply a gorgeous
pig.
Dick Tym <rocker66@...> wrote: ??? So Pray tell us What
was the worse? Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: larry.botheras@...
To: W650riders@...
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 8:09 AM
Subject: Re: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
I'm afraid I am speaking from a position of knowledge... Second
worst bike I ever rode... the worst was an 883
----Original Message----
From: eustisgary@...
Date: 16/07/2007 1:41
To: <W650riders@...>
Subj: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
Have you actually ridden a 1200 Sporty?--- In
W650riders@..., "Larry Botheras" <larry.botheras@>
wrote:
Think long and hard. unless it's tricked up the 1200 sporty will
feel
slower than the W IMHO, it's not that much more powerful (HD
never quote)
but it is a lot heavier
From: W650riders@... [mailto:W650riders@...] On
Behalf Of John
Sent: 11 July 2007 06:39
To: W650riders@...
Subject: [W650riders] Thinking about getting rid of my w650
I found a sportster 1200r that's tempting me to get rid of the w. What
are your thoughts on the 2006 sportster 1200 roadster?
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Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
Unfortunately, you encountered a typical uninformed Harley rider. These jokers take off the stocknpipes and put on a pair of loud shotgun pipes, and lose about five to seven horsepower in the process! Two-into-one pipes, such as Thunderheadres, accompanied by a simple jetting enrichment will ADD about ten horsepower instead. But hey, noise is ignorance in action, and ignorance is bliss!--- In W650riders@..., "Jonhaddock@..." <jonhaddock@...> wrote:
No, this guy came gunning past on a bend while I was accelerating
out of a thirty limit. I was two up and was taking it easy accordingly. His exhausts were loud enough to startle me. I knew he and his mates were behind and so I was not only keeping well in front so as not to inconvenience them, but I had shifted down into fourth to ensure I would be accelerating briskly so any cruising Harleys would be able to blat away without getting any pesky Jap bikes in the way of their stately progress. He was trying about as hard as he could. I was doing 95 in third, shifting into fourth, and cranked hard over when I went past him and the Harley's induction note still drowned out the W...He was wide open and trying hard.
Of course it could be that the person who buys a Sportster couldn't give a toss whether you out accelerate them or not. Maybe they are
happy just cruising at their own pace
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonhaddock@..." <jonhaddock@...>
To: <W650riders@...>
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my
w650
It might make 20 bhp more but it is not only hauling a fair bit
more weight,
but it can't rev anywhere near as high at any given speed. The
W can be always be at least one gear lower. THAT is what most people
fail to factor
in... rear wheel torque ( which is the ONLY torque that
matters), is a product of engine torque minus transmission losses over gearbox
ratio ...
If you have 100lbsft over a 1:1 gear ratio you have 100 lbs ft
If you have 50 lbs ft over a 0.5 to one ratio, you have 100 lbs
ft
That's why a weedy little Jap 600 can make a 1200cc Harley with
all that crankshaft torque look like a garbage truck in the acceleration
stakes. ...gearing and revs.
A stock W is tailing off above 6500 rpm, an opened up one is
still pulling
at 8000. No tester worth his salt is going to waste his time
revving a stock
bike past 7000 so they shift up. My bike still has a 1000rpm
left in that lower gear before I change...AND I'm dropping into the next
higher gear with
proportionally more power available.
Basically, When that guy came past, I simply shifted down three
gears....I
never even saw top gear. The Sportster would have had to have
been at least
3000 rpm lower at a similar speed and that is a VERY big
difference in gear
ratios to overcome.
Jon
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Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
maybe that guy was trying but the majority of Sportster riders are happy to cruise around which is why they buy this type of bike in the first place.
Unlike you I no longer feel that I have to compete with other riders so I just ride at the speed I feel happiest with at the time and if others want to roar past me then so be it. Having said that sometimes I am the one doing the passing.for this reason I can enjoy both my bikes in completely different ways
Dick
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonhaddock@..." <jonhaddock@...> To: <W650riders@...> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 12:04 PM Subject: Re: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
No, this guy came gunning past on a bend while I was accelerating out of a
thirty limit. I was two up and was taking it easy accordingly. His exhausts
were loud enough to startle me. I knew he and his mates were behind and so I
was not only keeping well in front so as not to inconvenience them, but I
had shifted down into fourth to ensure I would be accelerating briskly so
any cruising Harleys would be able to blat away without getting any pesky
Jap bikes in the way of their stately progress. He was trying about as hard
as he could. I was doing 95 in third, shifting into fourth, and cranked hard
over when I went past him and the Harley's induction note still drowned out
the W...He was wide open and trying hard.
|
Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
For ME, the worst was a Royal Star Palomino -??simply a?gorgeous pig. Dick Tym wrote: ??? So Pray tell us What was the worse? Dick ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 8:09 AM Subject: Re: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
I'm afraid I am speaking from a position of knowledge...? Second worst bike I ever rode... the worst was an 883
----Original Message----
From: eustisgary@yahoo.com
Date: 16/07/2007 1:41
To: <W650riders@yahoogroups.com>
Subj: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
Have you actually
ridden a 1200 Sporty?--- In W650riders@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Botheras" ...> wrote: > > Think long and hard. unless it's tricked up the 1200 sporty will feel > slower than the W IMHO, it's not that much more powerful (HD never quote) > but it is a lot heavier > > > > From: W650riders@yahoogroups.com [mailto: W650riders@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of John > Sent: 11 July 2007 06:39 > To: W650riders@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [W650riders] Thinking about getting rid of my w650 > > > > I found a sportster 1200r that's tempting me to get rid of the w. What > are your thoughts on the 2006 sportster 1200
roadster? >
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Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
I'm speaking as a prior owner.? In regard to smooth shifting, vibration and top-heaviness, I agree.? In terms of riding balance and handling, both my 883 and my1200 were?good bikes.? In terms of performance,?my 883 was a slacker, but my 1200 would haul butt. In terms of reliability and ease of maintenance, all of my Harleys were hands down the most reliable and easist to work on. But it's the intangibles that make the Harley a Harley - the feel of the engine at mid and low throttle, the styling, the personality. As the old saying goes, if ya gotta ask... On performance, all stock harleys are extremely restricted and can easiloy and cheaply make 25% to 50% more power.?? A stock EVO big twin averages 46 hp out of the box, and easily make 80hp with nothing but simple intake and exhaust changes.? Most Japanese bikes will stomp a Harley in an all-out drag, but at everyday loafing throttle, a harley's huge low-end torque keeps it ahead of
the pack effortlessly.? Effort is the key.? Do you want to be revving your bike to the limit all of the time to make it perform? The Harley is the big block Chevy of the motorcycle world....shhesh; I'm about to talk myself into another harley.... "larry.botheras@..." wrote: I'm afraid I am speaking from a position of knowledge...? Second worst bike I ever rode... the worst was an 883 ----Original Message----
From: eustisgary@yahoo.com
Date:
16/07/2007 1:41
To: ups.com>
Subj: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
Have you actually ridden a 1200 Sporty?--- In W650riders@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Botheras" ...> wrote: > > Think long and hard. unless it's tricked up the 1200 sporty will feel > slower than the W IMHO, it's not that much more powerful (HD never quote) > but it is a lot heavier > > > > From: W650riders@yahoogroups.com [mailto: W650riders@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of John > Sent: 11 July 2007 06:39 > To: W650riders@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [W650riders] Thinking about getting rid of my w650 > > > > I found a sportster 1200r that's tempting me to get rid of the w. What > are your thoughts on the 2006 sportster 1200 roadster? >
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Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
No, this guy came gunning past on a bend while I was accelerating out of a thirty limit. I was two up and was taking it easy accordingly. His exhausts were loud enough to startle me. I knew he and his mates were behind and so I was not only keeping well in front so as not to inconvenience them, but I had shifted down into fourth to ensure I would be accelerating briskly so any cruising Harleys would be able to blat away without getting any pesky Jap bikes in the way of their stately progress. He was trying about as hard as he could. I was doing 95 in third, shifting into fourth, and cranked hard over when I went past him and the Harley's induction note still drowned out the W...He was wide open and trying hard.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Of course it could be that the person who buys a Sportster couldn't give a
toss whether you out accelerate them or not. Maybe they are happy just
cruising at their own pace
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonhaddock@..." <jonhaddock@...>
To: <W650riders@...>
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
It might make 20 bhp more but it is not only hauling a fair bit more
weight,
but it can't rev anywhere near as high at any given speed. The W can be
always be at least one gear lower. THAT is what most people fail to factor
in... rear wheel torque ( which is the ONLY torque that matters), is a
product of engine torque minus transmission losses over gearbox ratio ...
If you have 100lbsft over a 1:1 gear ratio you have 100 lbs ft
If you have 50 lbs ft over a 0.5 to one ratio, you have 100 lbs ft
That's why a weedy little Jap 600 can make a 1200cc Harley with all that
crankshaft torque look like a garbage truck in the acceleration stakes.
...gearing and revs.
A stock W is tailing off above 6500 rpm, an opened up one is still pulling
at 8000. No tester worth his salt is going to waste his time revving a
stock
bike past 7000 so they shift up. My bike still has a 1000rpm left in that
lower gear before I change...AND I'm dropping into the next higher gear
with
proportionally more power available.
Basically, When that guy came past, I simply shifted down three gears....I
never even saw top gear. The Sportster would have had to have been at
least
3000 rpm lower at a similar speed and that is a VERY big difference in
gear
ratios to overcome.
Jon
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Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
The 1200 engine weighs less than the 883 engine.? More aluminum and less iron. James Franklin wrote: Triumph Bonneville.. 477 lbs dry Harley Davidson Sportster 883...502 lbs dry Kawasaki W 650...450 lbs dry Harley Davidson Sportster 1200 Roadster..584 lbs wet (couldn't find dry) Gas weighs 5.68 lbs per US gallon, oil 2 lbs per quart..shouldn' t be terribly hard to do the math if you knew the capacities.. which I don't. James Franklin 2411 Pine Summit DR.
E Jacksonville, Florida 32211 808-225-0994 (cell) From: Ruari McLennan < r.mclennan@shaw.ca> Reply-To: W650riders@yahoogroups.comTo: W650riders@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650 Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 20:19:21 -0700 How much does the Halrey weigh, James? Ruari ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Franklin" < jimw650@hotmail.com> To: < W650riders@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650 >A stock 1200 Sportster is doing the 1/4 in 13.02...half a second quicker > than the fastest W 650 I have
ever seen a test on. At 100 MPH (the HDs > terminal speed), 1/2 second would be about 75 feet ahead, the W rider > would > know he lost, but the Sportster rider would know he was close. > > The 1200 makes 64.4 HP, 20 more than a stock W. > > It's stock torque is 72.7 lb-ft at 3700 RPM, which would be around 70 MPH, > or twice what the W has at that speed in 5th. > > A W, not even a 50 HP W, is not much of a roll-on challenge for a 1200 > Sportster. > > But an 883, which costs (supposedly) closer to the W, really isn't in the > same performance class. > > The 883 makes 43.1 HP, about two less than the average W, yet weighs 50 > lbs > more. > > the 883 makes 43 ft lbs torque at 4550 RPM, the W 37.5 5100 RPM (that is > around 80 MPH for the W) > > The best 1/4 mile I have seen for an 883..15.16 sec at 88.33 MPH (that >
puts > it right there with a good Honda CB 350 or a Suzuki X6 Hustler). The > slowest W test I have is 14.33 @ 92.34 > > The W, when compared to the Sportster, is a revver. When you compare it > to > a stock 883, you get a lot more performance for your money. The 883 needs > pipes, and a cam, with a little chip manipulation to match a stock W. Not > much after market hi-perf stuff is available for the W, but the W is a > retro, and it is quicker than a 60s Bonneville or Lightning. And the W is > pretty low key, it has a compression ratio of only 8.4 to 1, whereas the > Yamaha XS 650 was 10 to 1. Has anyone shaved the heads on a W to see what > kind of power is available there? Jon, you just did pipes and jets and > got > 50 HP. > > Jon, you probably beat the rider, not the machine, if what you rolled away > from was a 1200 and you did it in 5th gear,
but there is no dishonor in > downshifting if the other bike has a 500cc advantage. I have ridden a lot > of > Sportsters (883s/1000s/ 1200s)..none of the rubber mounted engine ones > yet..but I never rode a Sportster as comfortable as the W, or as confidant > at parking lot speeds. And I bet Lucy was much more comfortable on the > back > of your W than she would have been on that skinny slab HD provides for a > passenger on the Sportster. > > > > James Franklin > 2411 Pine Summit DR. E > Jacksonville, Florida 32211 > > 808-225-0994 (cell) > > > > > > From: " Jonhaddock@onetel.net" < jonhaddock@onetel.net> > Reply-To: W650riders@yahoogroups.com> To: < W650riders@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650 > Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 01:56:42 +0100 > > > Well a stock one isn't as quick as a W650 which is about as slow as modern > motorcycles get....which makes the Sporty pretty slow. Certainly my warmed > up W will beat a loud piped 1200 Sporty from 60 to 100 plus....two > up.....And Lucy was on the back when we did it... > > > >A 1200 Sporty is by no means slow. It's about as fast a Harley > > platform as there is. /--- In W650riders@yahoogroups.com, "Alexander > > Ward" wrote: > >> > >> I've been lurking on this list for years, but now I have to chime > > in > >> on this topic. > >> > >> I
think the Sportster is a great partner to the W650. I have both > > a > >> 2000 W650 and a 1996 Sportster XL1200S Sport. The Sport has > >> adjustable Showa forks and dual front discs. If you add rearsets > > and > >> clipons and a decent seat, then it becomes a really fun scoot. ' > >> > >> No, it is not particularly fast, but the wide flat powerband > >> and more than ample torque combine with decent handling and > > braking > >> to make it easy to ride without requiring a lot of work. If you > >> switch to 17" wheels and sticky tires it gets even better. Don't > >> worry about the vibration if you buy an older one with a solid- > > mount > >> engine, just install BalanceMasters active vibration dampers and > >> fiddle with the final drive ratios (or even switch to chain drive) > >> and once it
is dialed in, then just enjoy it. > >> > >> Although any Japanese 600 can run rings around it, that is > > balanced > >> out by the double-takes from all of the head-to-toe leather-clad > >> dumplings on their cool Harleys who are cruising along at 30mph > > when > >> you pass them on the outside of a curve. > >> > >> You do have to think about it though. One of the classic > > disparaging > >> comments about Harleys is that they vibrate so much that parts > > fall > >> off. It is true, too. the first time I rode the Sporty any > >> distance, both mirrors, the taillight, and one turn signal fell > > off. > >> I felt like I had finally gained admittance to a long and proud > >> tradition! > >> > >> At any rate, keep the W650, get a Sportster too. >
>> > >> Alex > >> > >> --- In W650riders@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Botheras" > >> > wrote: > >> > > >> > Think long and hard. unless it's tricked up the 1200 sporty > > will > >> feel > >> > slower than the W IMHO, it's not that much more powerful (HD > > never > >> quote) > >> > but it is a lot heavier > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > From: W650riders@yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto: W650riders@yahoogroups.com] On > >> > Behalf Of John > >> > Sent: 11 July 2007 06:39 > >> > To: W650riders@yahoogroups.com> >> > Subject: [W650riders] Thinking about getting rid of my w650 > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > I found a sportster 1200r that's tempting me to get rid of the > > w. > >> What > >> > are your thoughts on the 2006 sportster 1200 roadster? > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Go to temporary photos site - :: > > Send an email to W650riders-nomail@yahoogroups.com to stop email > delivery. > > :: > > Send an email to W650riders-normal@yahoogroups.com to resume email > >
delivery. > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.6/900 - Release Date: > 14/07/2007 > > 15:36 > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary! > > > > > Go to temporary photos site - :: > Send an email to W650riders-nomail@yahoogroups.com to stop email
delivery. > :: > Send an email to W650riders-normal@yahoogroups.com to resume email > delivery. > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Go to temporary photos site - :: Send an email to W650riders-nomail@yahoogroups.com to stop email delivery. :: Send an email to W650riders-normal@yahoogroups.com to resume email delivery. Yahoo! Groups Links ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
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Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
...883 sporty....
----Original Message----
From: rocker66@...
Date: 16/07/2007 11:37
To:
Subj: Re: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
?
So Pray tell us What was the worse?
Dick
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 8:09 AM
Subject: Re: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
I'm afraid I am speaking from a position of knowledge...? Second worst bike I ever rode... the worst was an 883
----Original Message----
From: eustisgary@yahoo.com
Date: 16/07/2007 1:41
To: <W650riders@yahoogroups.com>
Subj: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
Have you actually ridden a 1200 Sporty?--- In
W650riders@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Botheras" ...>
wrote:
>
> Think long and hard. unless it's tricked up the 1200 sporty will
feel
> slower than the W IMHO, it's not that much more powerful (HD never
quote)
> but it is a lot heavier
>
>
>
> From: W650riders@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:W650riders@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of John
> Sent: 11 July 2007 06:39
> To: W650riders@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [W650riders] Thinking about getting rid of my w650
>
>
>
> I found a sportster 1200r that's tempting me to get rid of the w.
What
> are your thoughts on the 2006 sportster 1200 roadster?
>
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Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
I've had five Harleys.? They were the most dependable motorcycles I ever owned.? The post-AMF Harleys are extremely well-built.? But since almost every Harley has had its fuel and exhaust systems modified, often by replacing a dependable carburetor with an older design which offers less performance and less dependability, many suffer from rider-induced unreliability. bufallobiff wrote: ---They say that 95% of all Harleys sold since 1965 are still on the road. They haven't made it home
yet. In W650riders@yahoogroups.com, "john gary simpson" ...> wrote: > > A 1200 Sporty is by no means slow. It's about as fast a Harley > platform as there is. /--- In W650riders@yahoogroups.com, "Alexander > Ward" wrote: > > > > I've been lurking on this list for years, but now I have to chime > in > > on this topic. > > > > I think the Sportster is a great partner to the W650. I have both > a > > 2000 W650 and a 1996 Sportster XL1200S Sport. The Sport has > > adjustable Showa forks and dual front discs. If you add rearsets > and > > clipons and a decent seat, then it becomes a really fun scoot. ' > > > > No, it is not particularly fast, but the wide
flat powerband > > and more than ample torque combine with decent handling and > braking > > to make it easy to ride without requiring a lot of work. If you > > switch to 17" wheels and sticky tires it gets even better. Don't > > worry about the vibration if you buy an older one with a solid- > mount > > engine, just install BalanceMasters active vibration dampers and > > fiddle with the final drive ratios (or even switch to chain drive) > > and once it is dialed in, then just enjoy it. > > > > Although any Japanese 600 can run rings around it, that is > balanced > > out by the double-takes from all of the head-to-toe leather-clad > > dumplings on their cool Harleys who are cruising along at 30mph > when > > you pass them on the outside of a curve. > > > > You do have to think about it though. One of the
classic > disparaging > > comments about Harleys is that they vibrate so much that parts > fall > > off. It is true, too. the first time I rode the Sporty any > > distance, both mirrors, the taillight, and one turn signal fell > off. > > I felt like I had finally gained admittance to a long and proud > > tradition! > > > > At any rate, keep the W650, get a Sportster too. > > > > Alex > > > > --- In W650riders@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Botheras" > > > wrote: > > > > > > Think long and hard. unless it's tricked up the 1200 sporty > will > > feel > > > slower than the W IMHO, it's not that much more powerful (HD > never > > quote) > > > but it is a lot heavier > > >
> > > > > > > > > From: W650riders@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto: W650riders@yahoogroups.com] On > > > Behalf Of John > > > Sent: 11 July 2007 06:39 > > > To: W650riders@yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [W650riders] Thinking about getting rid of my w650 > > > > > > > > > > > > I found a sportster 1200r that's tempting me to get rid of the > w. > > What > > > are your thoughts on the 2006 sportster 1200 roadster? > > > > > >
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Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
According to all the specs I've read the W650 weighs 450 wet which means that 1200 weighs 130 lbs more...Which is the equivalent of a 9st pillion extra. That gives the 1200 a power to weight ratio of 8.7. A 50 bhp W has a power to weight ratio of 9. ....not hugely higher. Now factor in the fact that a W that makes power to 8000 rpm...some 3000 rpm higher than the Harley and can therefore be at least one gear lower and you have the reason why a stock 1200 Sportster can't stay with my bike.
Jon
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Triumph Bonneville..477 lbs dry
Harley Davidson Sportster 883...502 lbs dry
Kawasaki W 650...450 lbs dry
Harley Davidson Sportster 1200 Roadster..584 lbs wet (couldn't find dry)
Gas weighs 5.68 lbs per US gallon, oil 2 lbs per quart..shouldn't be
terribly hard to do the math if you knew the capacities..which I don't.
James Franklin
2411 Pine Summit DR. E
Jacksonville, Florida 32211
808-225-0994 (cell)
From: Ruari McLennan <r.mclennan@...>
Reply-To: W650riders@...
To: W650riders@...
Subject: Re: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 20:19:21 -0700
How much does the Halrey weigh, James?
Ruari
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Franklin" <jimw650@...>
To: <W650riders@...>
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
A stock 1200 Sportster is doing the 1/4 in 13.02...half a second quicker
than the fastest W 650 I have ever seen a test on. At 100 MPH (the HDs
terminal speed), 1/2 second would be about 75 feet ahead, the W rider
would
know he lost, but the Sportster rider would know he was close.
The 1200 makes 64.4 HP, 20 more than a stock W.
It's stock torque is 72.7 lb-ft at 3700 RPM, which would be around 70 MPH,
or twice what the W has at that speed in 5th.
A W, not even a 50 HP W, is not much of a roll-on challenge for a 1200
Sportster.
But an 883, which costs (supposedly) closer to the W, really isn't in the
same performance class.
The 883 makes 43.1 HP, about two less than the average W, yet weighs 50
lbs
more.
the 883 makes 43 ft lbs torque at 4550 RPM, the W 37.5 5100 RPM (that is
around 80 MPH for the W)
The best 1/4 mile I have seen for an 883..15.16 sec at 88.33 MPH (that
puts
it right there with a good Honda CB 350 or a Suzuki X6 Hustler). The
slowest W test I have is 14.33 @ 92.34
The W, when compared to the Sportster, is a revver. When you compare it
to
a stock 883, you get a lot more performance for your money. The 883 needs
pipes, and a cam, with a little chip manipulation to match a stock W. Not
much after market hi-perf stuff is available for the W, but the W is a
retro, and it is quicker than a 60s Bonneville or Lightning. And the W is
pretty low key, it has a compression ratio of only 8.4 to 1, whereas the
Yamaha XS 650 was 10 to 1. Has anyone shaved the heads on a W to see what
kind of power is available there? Jon, you just did pipes and jets and
got
50 HP.
Jon, you probably beat the rider, not the machine, if what you rolled away
from was a 1200 and you did it in 5th gear, but there is no dishonor in
downshifting if the other bike has a 500cc advantage. I have ridden a lot
of
Sportsters (883s/1000s/1200s)..none of the rubber mounted engine ones
yet..but I never rode a Sportster as comfortable as the W, or as confidant
at parking lot speeds. And I bet Lucy was much more comfortable on the
back
of your W than she would have been on that skinny slab HD provides for a
passenger on the Sportster.
James Franklin
2411 Pine Summit DR. E
Jacksonville, Florida 32211
808-225-0994 (cell)
From: "Jonhaddock@..." <jonhaddock@...>
Reply-To: W650riders@...
To: <W650riders@...>
Subject: Re: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 01:56:42 +0100
Well a stock one isn't as quick as a W650 which is about as slow as modern
motorcycles get....which makes the Sporty pretty slow. Certainly my warmed
up W will beat a loud piped 1200 Sporty from 60 to 100 plus....two
up.....And Lucy was on the back when we did it...
A 1200 Sporty is by no means slow. It's about as fast a Harley
platform as there is. /--- In W650riders@..., "Alexander
Ward" <award@...> wrote:
I've been lurking on this list for years, but now I have to chime
in
on this topic.
I think the Sportster is a great partner to the W650. I have both a
2000 W650 and a 1996 Sportster XL1200S Sport. The Sport has
adjustable Showa forks and dual front discs. If you add rearsets and
clipons and a decent seat, then it becomes a really fun scoot. '
No, it is not particularly fast, but the wide flat powerband
and more than ample torque combine with decent handling and braking
to make it easy to ride without requiring a lot of work. If you
switch to 17" wheels and sticky tires it gets even better. Don't
worry about the vibration if you buy an older one with a solid- mount
engine, just install BalanceMasters active vibration dampers and
fiddle with the final drive ratios (or even switch to chain drive)
and once it is dialed in, then just enjoy it.
Although any Japanese 600 can run rings around it, that is balanced
out by the double-takes from all of the head-to-toe leather-clad
dumplings on their cool Harleys who are cruising along at 30mph when
you pass them on the outside of a curve.
You do have to think about it though. One of the classic disparaging
comments about Harleys is that they vibrate so much that parts fall
off. It is true, too. the first time I rode the Sporty any
distance, both mirrors, the taillight, and one turn signal fell off.
I felt like I had finally gained admittance to a long and proud
tradition!
At any rate, keep the W650, get a Sportster too.
Alex
--- In W650riders@..., "Larry Botheras"
<larry.botheras@> wrote:
Think long and hard. unless it's tricked up the 1200 sporty
will
feel
slower than the W IMHO, it's not that much more powerful (HD never
quote)
but it is a lot heavier
From: W650riders@... [mailto:W650riders@...] On
Behalf Of John
Sent: 11 July 2007 06:39
To: W650riders@...
Subject: [W650riders] Thinking about getting rid of my w650
I found a sportster 1200r that's tempting me to get rid of the w.
What
are your thoughts on the 2006 sportster 1200 roadster?
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Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
Of course it could be that the person who buys a Sportster couldn't give a toss whether you out accelerate them or not. Maybe they are happy just cruising at their own pace
Dick
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonhaddock@..." <jonhaddock@...> To: <W650riders@...> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 11:37 AM Subject: Re: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
It might make 20 bhp more but it is not only hauling a fair bit more weight,
but it can't rev anywhere near as high at any given speed. The W can be
always be at least one gear lower. THAT is what most people fail to factor
in... rear wheel torque ( which is the ONLY torque that matters), is a
product of engine torque minus transmission losses over gearbox ratio ...
If you have 100lbsft over a 1:1 gear ratio you have 100 lbs ft
If you have 50 lbs ft over a 0.5 to one ratio, you have 100 lbs ft
That's why a weedy little Jap 600 can make a 1200cc Harley with all that
crankshaft torque look like a garbage truck in the acceleration stakes.
...gearing and revs.
A stock W is tailing off above 6500 rpm, an opened up one is still pulling
at 8000. No tester worth his salt is going to waste his time revving a stock
bike past 7000 so they shift up. My bike still has a 1000rpm left in that
lower gear before I change...AND I'm dropping into the next higher gear with
proportionally more power available.
Basically, When that guy came past, I simply shifted down three gears....I
never even saw top gear. The Sportster would have had to have been at least
3000 rpm lower at a similar speed and that is a VERY big difference in gear
ratios to overcome.
Jon
|
Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
It might make 20 bhp more but it is not only hauling a fair bit more weight, but it can't rev anywhere near as high at any given speed. The W can be always be at least one gear lower. THAT is what most people fail to factor in... rear wheel torque ( which is the ONLY torque that matters), is a product of engine torque minus transmission losses over gearbox ratio ...
If you have 100lbsft over a 1:1 gear ratio you have 100 lbs ft
If you have 50 lbs ft over a 0.5 to one ratio, you have 100 lbs ft
That's why a weedy little Jap 600 can make a 1200cc Harley with all that crankshaft torque look like a garbage truck in the acceleration stakes. ...gearing and revs.
A stock W is tailing off above 6500 rpm, an opened up one is still pulling at 8000. No tester worth his salt is going to waste his time revving a stock bike past 7000 so they shift up. My bike still has a 1000rpm left in that lower gear before I change...AND I'm dropping into the next higher gear with proportionally more power available.
Basically, When that guy came past, I simply shifted down three gears....I never even saw top gear. The Sportster would have had to have been at least 3000 rpm lower at a similar speed and that is a VERY big difference in gear ratios to overcome.
Jon
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
A stock 1200 Sportster is doing the 1/4 in 13.02...half a second quicker
than the fastest W 650 I have ever seen a test on. At 100 MPH (the HDs
terminal speed), 1/2 second would be about 75 feet ahead, the W rider would
know he lost, but the Sportster rider would know he was close.
The 1200 makes 64.4 HP, 20 more than a stock W.
It's stock torque is 72.7 lb-ft at 3700 RPM, which would be around 70 MPH,
or twice what the W has at that speed in 5th.
A W, not even a 50 HP W, is not much of a roll-on challenge for a 1200
Sportster.
But an 883, which costs (supposedly) closer to the W, really isn't in the
same performance class.
The 883 makes 43.1 HP, about two less than the average W, yet weighs 50 lbs
more.
the 883 makes 43 ft lbs torque at 4550 RPM, the W 37.5 5100 RPM (that is
around 80 MPH for the W)
The best 1/4 mile I have seen for an 883..15.16 sec at 88.33 MPH (that puts
it right there with a good Honda CB 350 or a Suzuki X6 Hustler). The
slowest W test I have is 14.33 @ 92.34
The W, when compared to the Sportster, is a revver. When you compare it to
a stock 883, you get a lot more performance for your money. The 883 needs
pipes, and a cam, with a little chip manipulation to match a stock W. Not
much after market hi-perf stuff is available for the W, but the W is a
retro, and it is quicker than a 60s Bonneville or Lightning. And the W is
pretty low key, it has a compression ratio of only 8.4 to 1, whereas the
Yamaha XS 650 was 10 to 1. Has anyone shaved the heads on a W to see what
kind of power is available there? Jon, you just did pipes and jets and got
50 HP.
Jon, you probably beat the rider, not the machine, if what you rolled away
from was a 1200 and you did it in 5th gear, but there is no dishonor in
downshifting if the other bike has a 500cc advantage. I have ridden a lot of
Sportsters (883s/1000s/1200s)..none of the rubber mounted engine ones
yet..but I never rode a Sportster as comfortable as the W, or as confidant
at parking lot speeds. And I bet Lucy was much more comfortable on the back
of your W than she would have been on that skinny slab HD provides for a
passenger on the Sportster.
James Franklin
2411 Pine Summit DR. E
Jacksonville, Florida 32211
808-225-0994 (cell)
From: "Jonhaddock@..." <jonhaddock@...>
Reply-To: W650riders@...
To: <W650riders@...>
Subject: Re: [W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 01:56:42 +0100
Well a stock one isn't as quick as a W650 which is about as slow as modern
motorcycles get....which makes the Sporty pretty slow. Certainly my warmed
up W will beat a loud piped 1200 Sporty from 60 to 100 plus....two
up.....And Lucy was on the back when we did it...
A 1200 Sporty is by no means slow. It's about as fast a Harley
platform as there is. /--- In W650riders@..., "Alexander
Ward" <award@...> wrote:
I've been lurking on this list for years, but now I have to chime
in
on this topic.
I think the Sportster is a great partner to the W650. I have both a
2000 W650 and a 1996 Sportster XL1200S Sport. The Sport has
adjustable Showa forks and dual front discs. If you add rearsets and
clipons and a decent seat, then it becomes a really fun scoot. '
No, it is not particularly fast, but the wide flat powerband
and more than ample torque combine with decent handling and braking
to make it easy to ride without requiring a lot of work. If you
switch to 17" wheels and sticky tires it gets even better. Don't
worry about the vibration if you buy an older one with a solid- mount
engine, just install BalanceMasters active vibration dampers and
fiddle with the final drive ratios (or even switch to chain drive)
and once it is dialed in, then just enjoy it.
Although any Japanese 600 can run rings around it, that is balanced
out by the double-takes from all of the head-to-toe leather-clad
dumplings on their cool Harleys who are cruising along at 30mph when
you pass them on the outside of a curve.
You do have to think about it though. One of the classic disparaging
comments about Harleys is that they vibrate so much that parts fall
off. It is true, too. the first time I rode the Sporty any
distance, both mirrors, the taillight, and one turn signal fell off.
I felt like I had finally gained admittance to a long and proud
tradition!
At any rate, keep the W650, get a Sportster too.
Alex
--- In W650riders@..., "Larry Botheras"
<larry.botheras@> wrote:
Think long and hard. unless it's tricked up the 1200 sporty
will
feel
slower than the W IMHO, it's not that much more powerful (HD never
quote)
but it is a lot heavier
From: W650riders@... [mailto:W650riders@...] On
Behalf Of John
Sent: 11 July 2007 06:39
To: W650riders@...
Subject: [W650riders] Thinking about getting rid of my w650
I found a sportster 1200r that's tempting me to get rid of the w.
What
are your thoughts on the 2006 sportster 1200 roadster?
Go to temporary photos site - ::
Send an email to W650riders-nomail@... to stop email delivery.
::
Send an email to W650riders-normal@... to resume email
delivery.
Yahoo! Groups Links
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.6/900 - Release Date: 14/07/2007
15:36
_________________________________________________________________
Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!
Go to temporary photos site - ::
Send an email to W650riders-nomail@... to stop email delivery. ::
Send an email to W650riders-normal@... to resume email delivery.
Yahoo! Groups Links
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.6/900 - Release Date: 14/07/2007 15:36
|
Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
?
So Pray tell us What was the worse?
Dick
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 8:09 AM
Subject: Re: [W650riders] Re: Thinking
about getting rid of my w650
I'm afraid I am speaking from a position of knowledge...?
Second worst bike I ever rode... the worst was an 883
----Original Message----
From: eustisgary@...
Date:
16/07/2007 1:41
To: <W650riders@...>
Subj:
[W650riders] Re: Thinking about getting rid of my w650
Have you actually ridden a 1200 Sporty?--- In
W650riders@yahoogroups.com,
"Larry Botheras" ...>
wrote:
>
>
Think long and hard. unless it's tricked up the 1200 sporty will
feel
> slower than the W IMHO, it's not that much more powerful
(HD never
quote)
> but it is a lot heavier
>
>
>
> From: W650riders@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:W650riders@yahoogroups.com]
On
> Behalf Of John
> Sent: 11 July 2007 06:39
> To: W650riders@yahoogroups.com
>
Subject: [W650riders] Thinking about getting rid of my w650
>
>
>
> I found a sportster 1200r that's tempting me to get rid of
the w.
What
> are your thoughts on the 2006 sportster 1200
roadster?
>
___________________________________________________________
Tiscali
Broadband only ?9.99 a month for your first 3 months!
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/
|
