?? ? Guy Brandenburg, Washington, DC? http://gfbrandenburg.wordpress.com/ http://home.earthlink.net/~gfbranden/GFB_Home_Page.html ============================
From: "betwys1@... [VacuumX]"
To: VacuumX@...
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2017 10:25 PM
Subject: [VacuumX] Past Its Hay-Day?
?
Such a pity. This group has been tailing off since 2011. Such a wealth of insight too! Think a Yahoo re-org had something to do with it.
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Such a pity. This group has been tailing off since 2011. Such a wealth of insight too! Think a Yahoo re-org had something to do with it.
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Edward E02 Diffusion Pump Manual
Hey anyone got?Edward E02 Diffusion Pump Manual ?
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I bought the lowest-cost pump I could find, nominally two-stage and I imagine it was intended principally for drying out automobile air-conditioning systems after a pump replacement and confess I was disappointed by the distance to absolute zero on the vacuum gauge. I checked the oil was at the high end of the sight gage and there were no leaks but still less than one or two inches of mercury was not to be has. Still, enough for a home built bell-jar and a few demonstrations with balloon, boiling water etc.
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++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: patinacreme
11/25/2015 12:02:42 PM
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Veeco EP-2A Diffusion Pump question
Just received a Veeco EP-2A with a small amount of damage to the jet stack. There's something wrong with how the top jet cap should be attached.
I have photos explaining at
If you're familiar with this pump I sure would appreciate some insight into what's needed!
Thanks,
Steve
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Re: weird Sharpie residue
It was easy to remove the sharpie before we Aluminized it. We purposely decided to do a Quick and Dirty aluminizing insatiable. I didn't consider the fact that the vaporized aluminum would be v ry very hot and *pyrolize* the black sharpie marks and our fingerprints. But it did. So David is refiguring. No more quick and dirty aluminizationsfor me.
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On Feb 23, 2015, at 1:34 PM, Kirk Wallace kwallace@... [VacuumX] < VacuumX@...> wrote:
?
On 02/23/2015 09:55 AM, Andrew Aurigema eosraptor@... [VacuumX] wrote:
> The only time Sharpie marker dont come off a mirror I am working on is
> when the mirror is not fully polished out. Even a mirror that looks
> polished can still have quite a rough surface that traps dye or lets it
> get under the top layer of glass. I have put on squiggle lines that
> took hours of polishing to fully remove because the dye got under the
> top layer of glass. Till that top layer is polished off the marks
> remained.
Good call Drew, I wonder if the mirror passed the laser pointer test?
( )
--
Kirk Wallace
|
Re: weird Sharpie residue
Sorry. It of course passed the laser test.?
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On Mar 8, 2015, at 4:05 AM, 'Christopher Erickson' christopher.k.erickson@... [VacuumX] < VacuumX@...> wrote:
?
I asked about the laser pointer test 12 days ago.
Christopher Erickson
Consulting Engineer
Summit Kinetics
Waikoloa, HI 96738
-----Original Message-----
From: VacuumX@... [mailto:VacuumX@...]
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2015 8:35 AM
To: VacuumX@...
Subject: Re: [VacuumX] weird Sharpie residue
On 02/23/2015 09:55 AM, Andrew Aurigema eosraptor@... [VacuumX] wrote:
> The only time Sharpie marker dont come off a mirror I am working on is
> when the mirror is not fully polished out. Even a mirror that looks
> polished can still have quite a rough surface that traps dye or lets it
> get under the top layer of glass. I have put on squiggle lines that
> took hours of polishing to fully remove because the dye got under the
> top layer of glass. Till that top layer is polished off the marks
> remained.
Good call Drew, I wonder if the mirror passed the laser pointer test?
( )
--
Kirk Wallace
------------------------------------
Posted by: Kirk Wallace <kwallace@...>
------------------------------------
------------------------------------
Yahoo Groups Links
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Re: weird Sharpie residue
I asked about the laser pointer test 12 days ago.
Christopher Erickson
Consulting Engineer
Summit Kinetics
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com
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-----Original Message----- From: VacuumX@... [mailto:VacuumX@...] Sent: Monday, February 23, 2015 8:35 AM To: VacuumX@... Subject: Re: [VacuumX] weird Sharpie residue On 02/23/2015 09:55 AM, Andrew Aurigema eosraptor@... [VacuumX] wrote: The only time Sharpie marker dont come off a mirror I am working on is
when the mirror is not fully polished out. Even a mirror that looks
polished can still have quite a rough surface that traps dye or lets it
get under the top layer of glass. I have put on squiggle lines that
took hours of polishing to fully remove because the dye got under the
top layer of glass. Till that top layer is polished off the marks
remained. Good call Drew, I wonder if the mirror passed the laser pointer test? ( ) -- Kirk Wallace ------------------------------------ Posted by: Kirk Wallace <kwallace@...> ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ Yahoo Groups Links
|
Re: Pix of sharpie watermark
Could be, Drew. I hadn't considered the heat of the aluminum at all. Won't make that mistake again.
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On Feb 24, 2015, at 10:21 PM, Andrew Aurigema eosraptor@... [VacuumX] < VacuumX@...> wrote:
?
And you said this happened after you aluminized with the shaprie marker on the glass ???
I can only guess that the 2000 deg F aluminum gas flashed the dye and you are seeing the combustion product stuck to the glass.? It may only be a few atoms thick.? Who knows, it may be graphine ! ! ! ! ! ? ??
It sound silly but flash combustion staining can happen.? My 28" f/1.05 full thickness mirror fresh back from rework went into my chamber for coating.? It was precision clean upon entry.? Due to the very improbable coincidence of my wife turning off the coolant water to the diff pump coolant jacket and the thermal cutoff switch not actually cutting off and there not being any oil vapor cold traps above the diff pumps.... there was a vanishingly thin ( not visible ) fog of vacuum oil in the chamber from the diff oil getting too hot.? It contaminate the mirror without my knowing it.? I ran the aluminization and was reduced to incoherent babbling when I opened the chamber. ? Upon stripping the coating with green river and cleaning with foaming dawn detergent, then calicum carbonate then cleaning and rinsing again and again, blowing a little breath fog on the mirror brought the damage out every time.? Seen below is breath on the mirror acting as a fog water break. ?
Nothing short of wiping the mirror surface down with a soft wet cloth dripping wet with very watered down jewelers rouge and distilled water remove the surface contamination.? The re-coat was flawless and no hint of the contamination could be seen. ? ? ?
Not saying this is what happened to your mirror, but that dye is carbon based and aluminum gas ( however little of it there is ) is seriously hot. ?
Drew in rainy Florida
ps..... all the things that led up to my surface getting trashed with oil have been 200% fixed.? There is now dual redundant safety everything when it comes to them nasty diff pumps.
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Re: Pix of sharpie watermark [5 Attachments]
And you said this happened after you aluminized with the shaprie marker on the glass ???
I can only guess that the 2000 deg F aluminum gas flashed the dye and you are seeing the combustion product stuck to the glass.? It may only be a few atoms thick.? Who knows, it may be graphine ! ! ! ! ! ? ??
It sound silly but flash combustion staining can happen.? My 28" f/1.05 full thickness mirror fresh back from rework went into my chamber for coating.? It was precision clean upon entry.? Due to the very improbable coincidence of my wife turning off the coolant water to the diff pump coolant jacket and the thermal cutoff switch not actually cutting off and there not being any oil vapor cold traps above the diff pumps.... there was a vanishingly thin ( not visible ) fog of vacuum oil in the chamber from the diff oil getting too hot.? It contaminate the mirror without my knowing it.? I ran the aluminization and was reduced to incoherent babbling when I opened the chamber. ? Upon stripping the coating with green river and cleaning with foaming dawn detergent, then calicum carbonate then cleaning and rinsing again and again, blowing a little breath fog on the mirror brought the damage out every time.? Seen below is breath on the mirror acting as a fog water break. ?
Nothing short of wiping the mirror surface down with a soft wet cloth dripping wet with very watered down jewelers rouge and distilled water remove the surface contamination.? The re-coat was flawless and no hint of the contamination could be seen. ? ? ?
Not saying this is what happened to your mirror, but that dye is carbon based and aluminum gas ( however little of it there is ) is seriously hot. ?
Drew in rainy Florida
ps..... all the things that led up to my surface getting trashed with oil have been 200% fixed.? There is now dual redundant safety everything when it comes to them nasty diff pumps.
On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 8:02 PM, Guy Brandenburg gfbrandenburg@... [VacuumX] <VacuumX@...> wrote:
?
[Attachment(s) from Guy Brandenburg included below]
Here are some. First few after acetone. Last ones after paint strip per. Absolutely cannot see this on ronchi gram or Foucault
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Here are some. First few after acetone. Last ones after paint strip per. Absolutely cannot see this on ronchi gram or Foucault
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Re: weird Sharpie residue
Could still be micro-fractures.
?
One thing I do is use a 3-5mw green laser pointer.? I hit the
mirror at an angle and if I can see a green dot on the surface of the mirror
then I know that I am not done polishing.
?
?
Christopher
Erickson
Consulting Engineer
Summit Kinetics
Waikoloa, HI
96738
www.summitkinetics.com
?
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1. You cannot see the marks at all with the
naked eye. AT ALL.
2. ?I believe the
mirror is fully polished.?
3. The only way I can
tell something weird is going on is after we've washed the mirror thoroughly
with Alconox and/or powdered calcium carbonate and rinsed it thoroughly and let
the water flow off: What happens then is that the line and marks that I
drew re-appear as if a magical water-mark arose where the marks used to be. I
didn't take any photos at the time. I should say, "water-mark descended" rather
than "arose": the sheet of water was very uniform except that it was a little
thinner where the marks used to be. You could read the markings very clearly as
if there was a scar on the surface of the water. Not at all visible in any way
on the dry glass.?
?
Guy Brandenburg, Washington,
DC?
http://gfbrandenburg.wordpress.com/
http://home.earthlink.net/~gfbranden/GFB_Home_Page.html
============================
From:
"'Christopher Erickson' christopher.k.erickson@... [VacuumX]"
To: VacuumX@...
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2015 3:43
PM
Subject: RE: [VacuumX] weird
Sharpie residue
?
Agreed.? If the marker isn't coming off then the
mirror polishing isn't finished.
?
?
Christopher Erickson
Consulting
Engineer
Summit Kinetics
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com
?
The only time Sharpie marker
dont come off a mirror I am working on is when the mirror is not fully polished
out.? Even a mirror that looks polished can still have quite a rough
surface that traps dye or lets it get under the top layer of glass.? I have
put on squiggle lines that took hours of polishing to fully remove because the
dye got under the top layer of glass.? Till that top layer is polished off
the marks remained. ?
I would be inclined to polish the surface and remove the marks.
?
Can you take a pic or two of the inside of your chamber so we can see what
"classic vac" looks like ???
Drew in sunny Florida
??
|
Re: weird Sharpie residue
1. You cannot see the marks at all with the naked eye. AT ALL.
2. ?I believe the mirror is fully polished.?
3. The only way I can tell something weird is going on is after we've washed the mirror thoroughly with Alconox and/or powdered calcium carbonate and rinsed it thoroughly and let the water flow off: What happens then is that the line and marks that I drew re-appear as if a magical water-mark arose where the marks used to be. I didn't take any photos at the time. I should say, "water-mark descended" rather than "arose": the sheet of water was very uniform except that it was a little thinner where the marks used to be. You could read the markings very clearly as if there was a scar on the surface of the water. Not at all visible in any way on the dry glass.? ? Guy Brandenburg, Washington, DC?
http://gfbrandenburg.wordpress.com/
http://home.earthlink.net/~gfbranden/GFB_Home_Page.html
============================
From: "'Christopher Erickson' christopher.k.erickson@... [VacuumX]"
To: VacuumX@...
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2015 3:43 PM
Subject: RE: [VacuumX] weird Sharpie residue
?
Agreed.? If the marker isn't coming off then the mirror
polishing isn't finished.
?
?
Christopher Erickson
Consulting
Engineer
Summit Kinetics
Waikoloa, HI
96738
www.summitkinetics.com
?
The only time Sharpie marker dont come off a mirror I am working on
is when the mirror is not fully polished out.? Even a mirror that looks
polished can still have quite a rough surface that traps dye or lets it get
under the top layer of glass.? I have put on squiggle lines that took hours
of polishing to fully remove because the dye got under the top layer of
glass.? Till that top layer is polished off the marks remained. ?
I would be inclined to polish the surface and remove the marks.
?
Can you take a pic or two of the inside of your chamber so we can see what
"classic vac" looks like ???
Drew in sunny Florida
??
|
Re: weird Sharpie residue
Agreed.? If the marker isn't coming off then the mirror
polishing isn't finished.
?
?
Christopher Erickson
Consulting
Engineer
Summit Kinetics
Waikoloa, HI
96738
www.summitkinetics.com
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
The only time Sharpie marker dont come off a mirror I am working on
is when the mirror is not fully polished out.? Even a mirror that looks
polished can still have quite a rough surface that traps dye or lets it get
under the top layer of glass.? I have put on squiggle lines that took hours
of polishing to fully remove because the dye got under the top layer of
glass.? Till that top layer is polished off the marks remained. ?
I would be inclined to polish the surface and remove the marks.
?
Can you take a pic or two of the inside of your chamber so we can see what
"classic vac" looks like ???
Drew in sunny Florida
??
|
Re: weird Sharpie residue
On 02/23/2015 09:55 AM, Andrew Aurigema eosraptor@... [VacuumX] wrote: The only time Sharpie marker dont come off a mirror I am working on is
when the mirror is not fully polished out. Even a mirror that looks
polished can still have quite a rough surface that traps dye or lets it
get under the top layer of glass. I have put on squiggle lines that
took hours of polishing to fully remove because the dye got under the
top layer of glass. Till that top layer is polished off the marks
remained. Good call Drew, I wonder if the mirror passed the laser pointer test? ( ) -- Kirk Wallace
|
Re: weird Sharpie residue
The only time Sharpie marker dont come off a mirror I am working on is when the mirror is not fully polished out.? Even a mirror that looks polished can still have quite a rough surface that traps dye or lets it get under the top layer of glass.? I have put on squiggle lines that took hours of polishing to fully remove because the dye got under the top layer of glass.? Till that top layer is polished off the marks remained. ?
I would be inclined to polish the surface and remove the marks. ?
Can you take a pic or two of the inside of your chamber so we can see what "classic vac" looks like ???
Drew in sunny Florida ??
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 12:32 PM, Guy Brandenburg gfbrandenburg@... [VacuumX] <VacuumX@...> wrote:
?
That's also weird. In the past I found that "permanent" magic ?markers or sharpies came off of glass -- Pyrex or float -- in soap and water or even with handling.not this time!!
?
A person who uses a permanent marker on a surface, no matter how
precious, ought to expect it to be permanent. Sadly.
Brian Whatcott
Interesting residue
from a Sharpie or Magic Marker on a mirror that I cannot
remove before aluminizing it!
/snip/
Anybody
have comments or ideas?
?
Guy Brandenburg,
Washington, DC
|
Re: weird Sharpie residue
That's also weird. In the past I found that "permanent" magic ?markers or sharpies came off of glass -- Pyrex or float -- in soap and water or even with handling.not this time!!
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On Feb 23, 2015, at 12:15 PM, brian whatcott betwys1@... [VacuumX] < VacuumX@...> wrote:
?
A person who uses a permanent marker on a surface, no matter how
precious, ought to expect it to be permanent. Sadly.
Brian Whatcott
Interesting residue
from a Sharpie or Magic Marker on a mirror that I cannot
remove before aluminizing it!
/snip/
Anybody
have comments or ideas?
?
Guy Brandenburg,
Washington, DC
|
Re: weird Sharpie residue
A person who uses a permanent marker on a surface, no matter how
precious, ought to expect it to be permanent. Sadly.
Brian Whatcott
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Interesting residue
from a Sharpie or Magic Marker on a mirror that I cannot
remove before aluminizing it!
/snip/
Anybody
have comments or ideas?
?
Guy Brandenburg,
Washington, DC
|
Re: weird Sharpie residue
It was a permanent marker. I?
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On Feb 23, 2015, at 9:34 AM, Don Mattox donmattox@... [VacuumX] < VacuumX@...> wrote:
?
Was the Sharpie a "dry marker" or a
"permanent marker?" I imagine the residue from a dry marker would
be carbon and that the solvent from a permanent marker to be much
more aggressive. I suspect you have permanently etched the glass.
Salt from fingerprints will etch the glass as will any alkaline
material.
Don
On 2/21/15 9:05 PM, Andrew Aurigema eosraptor@... [VacuumX]
wrote:
Moving up in chemical agression towards the dye would be
methyl cloride..... or methyline cloride.... found in Dads Old
Fasion Paint Stripper. ?Neither are caustic.
Sent via the Samsung
Galaxy Note? II, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
Date:02/21/2015 11:43 AM (GMT-05:00)
Cc: David Collins
Subject: [VacuumX] weird Sharpie residue
?
Interesting residue
from a Sharpie or Magic Marker on a mirror that I cannot
remove before aluminizing it!
Here's how it
happened: David C is making a 12.5" mirror and based on
ronchi and foucault/couder zonal readings, it looks pretty
good. We tried using a wire test, and to do so, I used a
Magic Marker to draw a chord or diameter and marked some
points on it. (Saw professionals at NuTek near Baltimore
do the same thing, thought it couldn't hurt.
We
then tried to do star testing. However, trying to do that
outside when uncoated was a nightmare. So I figured it
would be asier if I did a quick-and-dirty coating in our
Consolidated Electrodynamics vacuum chamber and alumizer,
vintage mid-1960s. Literally "quick and dirty" because I
didn't even wash it off. The aluminum stuck just fine, but
you could see our fingerprints and the Sharpie line
through the aluminum. Did some more testing.
Yesterday,
we decided to do a real coating. ?So we got out the 'green
river' and the paper towels and stood outside in the snow
and cold and watched Venus and Mars do their slow evening
dance whille the aluminum came off, which it did.
Then we took the
mirror into the CCCC kitchen to clean off anything
remaining (and warm up) using our regular agents: Alconox
powder and powdered USP calcium carbonate (separately)
with water and cotton balls.
Guess
what?
We could still see,
clearly, where I had drawn the line with the permanent
marker, despite repeated washings and scrubbings.
We even tried laquer
thinner. ?No change. We haven't tried acetone, because we
were out, and intend to do so, but at this point I'm not
sure it will work either... Methyl Ethyl Ketone? I sure
hope it doesn't need polishing again, because figuring a
12.5" mirror is a WHOLE lot of work.
Weird.
Anybody
have comments or ideas?
?
Guy Brandenburg,
Washington, DC?
============================
|
Christopher Erickson
Kirk Wallace