Erik;

Have you actually been able to make connections, when running VARAC and VARA HF in that Windows 11 VM?

Mark - AD7EF

Ruben;

Thanks for letting us know about your success running VARA HF/FM on Windows 11, on a PC with a x86 (Intel or AMD) processor.

However, the question being asked on this topic is whether anyone has had success running VARA HF (and/or VARA FM) on a Mac computer using Apple's M1 processor as the CPU.

Keep in mind that the VARA HF or VARA FM modem programs run?only under Windows. This means that on a Mac computer with an Apple M1 processor, the VARA HF or VARA FM modem program (and the VARAC "Real-time P2P chatting software" or Winlink "Radio email" software) must be running in a Windows VM (Virtual Machine), running in a VMWare, Parallels or Virtualbox "Hypervisor" environment... under the MacOS operating system.

Prior to Apple introducing the M1 processor family, modern Mac computers were based on Intel x86 CPUs. It wasn't too difficult to have the VARA HF/FM modem software run reliably in a Windows VM (Virtual Machine), running in a VMWare, Parallels or Virtualbox "Hypervisor" environment when the "host computer" used a x86 CPU. Also, Windows could be used as the native OS on these computers, using the Apple "Boot Camp" utility.

On Mac computers with one of Apple's M1 processors for the CPU, the situation is more complicated, because the x86 instruction set is emulated on the M1 processors. ?While it's likely that the VARAC "Real-time P2P chatting software" and Winlink "Radio email" software can run on the emulated x86 system, it's not a given that the much more CPU-intensive VARA HF or VARA FM modem software will run properly.

Mark - AD7EF

Bill,

I have run VARA on my M1 Mac and Windows 11 ARM64 as well as packet for winlink. I am using a FTM-400 and a digilink with the 1200 baud connection. I am waiting on the 9600 cable to try higher speeds. ?I have not tried VARA HF lately but I got a new HF radio so not had time to play with it. ?

Tim?

KM4ESU

On Sun, Jul 23, 2023 at 06:35 AM, Tim Huffaker wrote:

I have run VARA on my M1 Mac and Windows 11 ARM64 as well as packet for winlink.

Bill;

I'd like to get a sense of the M1 Mac performance level needed for reliable VARA HF/FM operation, particularly for "full throughput" ?VARA FM WIDE.

It would be very helpful for us to know which?model Mac you're using, and which "hypervisor" (Parallels, VMWare) you're using to run the Windows 11 ARM64 VM.

Also, what are your hypervisor settings for the Windows 11 ARM64 VM... number of cores, RAM, HD, Display, etc.?

Mark - AD7EF

I can't speak to Parallels. But I was able to run VARA FM (and Packet) using VMWare and the Windows 11 ARM beta release. At home the contacts were fine. When I took the same system into a training site and shared my screen nothing worked. There wasn't time to debug it before the training.

I've been using a cheap, used Windows laptop for EmComm & WinLink Express. I've just stuck with that instead of trying to get things running on the M1. Even when things were running, the nagware in Windows 11 ARM beta release was frustrating. (There's an update you need! But you can't get to it in the beta.)

YMMV.

73,
Glenn
W5MTR

Mark,

At this point I have not tried Parallels on my M1 Mac Mini. I will be ordering it since several replies here and on QST have said it works. I am not worried about performance on the M1. It out performs any Intel Windows computers I have worked with. Once I get it up and running I will reply with my results.

For reference, I am running both an M1 Mac Mini, first generation and a M1 MacBook Pro connected to my IC-7300 and IC-705. I use WFview and SDR Control, both very nice and preform well on my Macs. I use JS8Call with WFview and FT8 on SDR Control. I really like the digital modes since I am not much for rag chew.?

Thanks everyone for their replies.

73
Bill
W4BRZ

On Tue, Jul 25, 2023 at 07:15 AM, Bill Roeding - W4BRZ wrote:

I use WFview and SDR Control, both very nice and preform well on my Macs. I use JS8Call with WFview and FT8 on SDR Control.

Bill;

Your response doesn't address the fundamental question you originally asked (restated here)...
>> How well do the Windows-only VARA HF and/or VARA FM (CPU-intensive radio-modem) programs run?on a M1 Mac?

This question can only be answered by Mac users who have actually used VARA HF and/or VARA FM on a Mac with a M1 CPU, on a "guest" Windows operating system, under a hypervisor such as Parallels, VMWare, or Virtualbox. I should have directed my previous comment to Tim KM4ESU and Glenn W5MTR, who, so far, are the only participants on this topic who actually appear to have done this. Erik OH2LAK also reported "It works OK for me. I'm running the Windows11 VM provided with Parallels exactly on a M1 Mac Pro", but didn't respond to my question about whether he was actually able to make successful connections with other RMS gateway or P2P stations.

Tim said "I have run VARA on my M1 Mac and Windows 11 ARM64 as well as packet for winlink", which suggests he's referring particularly to VARA FM. He also went on to say "I have not tried VARA HF...". Glenn W5MTR said "I was able to run VARA FM (and Packet) using VMWare and the Windows 11 ARM beta release. At home the contacts were fine..."

Bill... while the JS8Call and FT8 apps you mentioned do a substantial amount of DSP (Digital Signal Processing), they are available as "native" Mac apps, which can be very effectively translated into efficient M1 code, by the "Rosetta 2" emulation system that is built into MacOS for M1 Macs. This avoids both the the overhead of operating a "guest" Windows OS under a hypervisor (i.e. Parallels or VMWare) and the "Just In Time" emulation of VARA HF/FM x86 code into M1 instructions, that must be performed by the MacOS.

For Windows-only CPU-intensive DSP (Digital Signal Processing) software, such as the VARA HF and VARA FM radio-modem programs, there may be a minimum level of M1 performance, and/or Windows VM configuration, that will support reliable operation of these programs. I thought it would be helpful for other participants to know what actual M1 Mac Tim Glen were using, and what the hypervisor (Parallel, VMWare) settings were for their "guest"?Windows 11 VM.

Mark - AD7EF

Thanks Mark. This helps clear things up.?

73
Bill

Mark,

Do you know if anyone is working on VARA HF or VARA FM modem programs that will run natively on Macs? ?This will be a huge game changer for Apple users. ?Many ham radio applications are now being built for Macs and iOS. ?It would be great if VARA caught up.

73,
Nick N3CNO

On Thu, Jul 27, 2023 at 06:03 AM, N3CNO - Nick wrote:

Do you know if anyone is working on VARA HF or VARA FM modem programs that will run natively on Macs?

Nick;

The VARA HF and VARA FM radio-modem software is proprietary. It is entirely up to the developer, Jose Alberto Nieto Ros EA5HVK, whether to develop versions that run natively under operating systems other than Windows.?

If Jose did decide to produce versions of these programs that ran natively on Apple Mac computers, he'd probably have to seriously consider rewriting the signal-processing code using ARM development tools, so that these vital functions would run with maximum efficiency on the M1 processors.

While the VARA programs are, essentially, "radio-modems", and are of limited use by themselves, they are essential for the operation of higher level radio-email and radio-chat programs, the most popular of which are Winlink Express and VARAC.

Unfortunately, Winlink Express and VARAC are currently Windows-only programs.

It's a "chicken and egg" situation... until there's a reasonable base of MacOS native radio-email and radio-chat programs, there's little impetus for Jose to develop native Mac VARA programs, and until Jose develops native Mac VARA programs, there's little impetus for the developers of radio-email and radio-chat programs to produce native Mac versions of those programs.

Mark - AD7EF

Hello Bill,

I have been running Vara HF on Windows 10 on an i9 macbook pro with 16Mb RAM and now on a Macbook pro M1 10 cores and 16Mb of RAM. All on Parallel with the hypervisor in default config and Windows 11. First of all it works.
Then I can say that it works much better as the i9 was running all fans out with LOG4OM, SDRuno, VaraHF with Winlink or VaraAC and now with the M1 the mac is at 60 - 70 degres and I cannot ear the fans.
I have completed a QSO with Vara AC and Vara HF but not the last version at the time of Vara AC which was not working for me - I have not tried yet the 8.0.6. Will try it soon.
This was in May, I have been travelling then and Windows 11, Parallel and VaraAC have issued new releases since then. At the time VaraAC or HF was freezing when unattended. I have disabled the Parallel Travel mode, but it was still doing it. You could run a QSO but not leave the programs unattended. This is I think a temporary bug which may have been fixed. I will try soon with all the updated versions. There seems to be some power savings kicking in and freezing things. I am also running Cafeine on the Mac to avoid it to go to sleep.

On Sat, Jul 22, 2023 at 04:19 PM, Bill Roeding - W4BRZ wrote:

I am curious if anyone has successfully run VARA and VARAC on a M1 Mac using Parallels.

Mostly - I don't have an M1 Mac with which to test but I do have an M2Pro. There is absolutely *no* reason to think the M1 wouldn't work too.

I just tested VARA HF on my wife's M2Pro MBP. I was running Win11 in a VM using the latest version of Parallels. Before entering my VARA registration code, I was a solid 175 bps up and down. I sent a message from my Winlink account to my personal account and then replied back. I entered my registration code and got up to a 10 (I forget the speed) and it was solid on 20 m with my IC-705

Other than installing both RMS Express and VARA in a "test" folder (it's my wife's computer), I followed the "standard" install process (i.e. I did *nothing* special).

I have VarAC running as well at 500 Hz and just pinged WY6Y who was received here at a +02. He gave me a +06. Again, I'm using my IC-705. I didn't get any takers to my CQ.

Both VARA HF and VarAC are working splendidly here using an M2Pro MBP in a Win11 VM using Parallels.

Take this as a valid test or not. Take it with a grain of salt or not. It's Win11 ARM64 on an Apple ARM CPU. Win11 actually runs better on my wife's M2Pro MBP than my i7 3.8 GHz Late 2020 iMac.

I forgot, I have the CPU and memory set to auto but it allocated 4 CPUs and 6 GB RAM.

Joel - W4JBB

On Sat, Sep 30, 2023 at 11:19 AM, W4JBB wrote:

Mostly - I don't have an M1 Mac with which to test but I do have an M2Pro. There is absolutely *no* reason to think the M1 wouldn't work too.

I apologize. I just looked again at my wife's MBP and it is an M1Pro. My apologies.

Joel - W4JBB

On Thu, Jul 27, 2023 at 04:25 PM, Mark Davis wrote:

On Thu, Jul 27, 2023 at 06:03 AM, N3CNO - Nick wrote:

Do you know if anyone is working on VARA HF or VARA FM modem programs that will run natively on Macs?

Nick;

The VARA HF and VARA FM radio-modem software is proprietary. It is entirely up to the developer, Jose Alberto Nieto Ros EA5HVK, whether to develop versions that run natively under operating systems other than Windows.?

...

Mark - AD7EF

And, unfortunately, you have to be prepared to invest quite a lot simply to be in a position to start developing for the Mac... Reasonable specification hardware is more expensive than comparable performance Windows machines and Apple make it difficult to develop serious software without paying them for development tools. My wife and I were developing applications targeting both Apple and Microsoft a couple of years ago - for Windows, we could work perfectly well with a desktop costing around ?400 and Visual Studio downloaded completely free of charge. In comparison, for Apple development we struggled along on the cheapest Mac Mini which cost more than ?500 and performed quite poorly and we had to pay an annual fee to Apple for membership of their developers network in order to gain access to the tools and be allowed to ship our products through the Apple distribution platform.

Martin (G8FXC)

开云体育

?For an alternative (I realize it may be heresy to even say "Windows" to a Mac group!!!) you can read about a low-cost alternative that several are using on VARA and VARA FM.? The available $100-200? Windows "brick" CPUs (with Win 10 or 11 included) do a very nice job with VARA and the Winlink software.? Here are some details on two such setups I recently did, tested, and am using on our local VARA FM RMS Packet network in Florida.

?

Be glad to answer any questions on this for you.

73,

Rick Muething, KN6KB? Winlink Development Team

On Wed, Oct 4, 2023 at 04:21 PM, martinbradford2001 wrote:

Reasonable specification hardware is more expensive than comparable performance Windows machines

It is for new machines, but when you get to using older machines for low demand tasks - such as, perhaps, digital radio ops, I've found that older macs, pound for pound, tend to remain workable, and (broadly speaking) fail more gracefully than windows machines at the same price.

I split all sorts of things between Windows and mac, and sometimes linux, depending what I'm doing, and use Crossover and homebrew to port stuff from one machine to another.

Your mileage may, of course, vary, depending on your needs.

73,
Phil
2E0HGU

Hi Bill,
Just to add a little to this thread. ?I had been running WE/VARA HF using Parallels and Win 11 (ARM) on an M2 Apple laptop. ?Recently I noted that after several assorted upgrades, the Signalink would no longer key/Xmit even though I had a clear waterfall
Ventura 13.6.7
WE 1.7.16.0
VARA HF 4.8.7
Parallels 19.4.0

I have been using a UNI USB-C to USB dongle. ?I checked out the cabling and connections using my old Intel MacBook Pro and also a PC laptop. VARA HF connections played fine. ?Figured it was either the dongle or a software/setup issue. ?Since the dongle worked in the past, started looking for a software/setup cause. Did some digging and found info on the signalink site for Win11 configs:


Setting the parameters as per the tech note and adjusting the Volume slider in Sound properties was the fix.
Hope this helps.