Alternative motor for the Unimat SL
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Hope you looked carefully at the shipping costs before you ordered. I wanted 3 of them, they wanted $63 and up in shipping, where one? was $11.98 or so. I'll be looking elsewhere. I'll get something one of these days. I'm a cheap bastrich, and can't spend that much on shipping. ;) Bill in OKC William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY! Physics doesn't care about your schedule. The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better
On Sunday, June 12, 2022, 08:26:54 PM CDT, sawbona@... <sawbona@...> wrote:
Hello: > ... look at my album ... Will do. Thanks for the heads-up. > ... used a 130 W ... Earlier today I ordered one similar to the one referenced by NapierDeltic in his post. Only US$7.92. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33009729521.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2esp > ... polyurethane belts and found they never slipped. Yes, I have heard that they don't slip. But I cannot help but thinking that a slipping belt is a sort of insurance. And could eventually save a locked lathe. > ... shock had been efficiently transferred to the motor bearings ... > ... needed to be replaced (with high quality ones - I suspect the originals were a bit cheap and cheerful). Yes. Maybe I should do that directly do it before installing the motor.? 8^/ > ... motors get longer ... Yes. The version I ordered is only 80mm long (200W/280mN. m) I think the 300W version is 172mm long and 400mN. m. Just over twice as long for ~43% more torque, same diameter. > ... shafts are 8 mm so a direct fit for the U3 pulley and the fixing screws line up with the slots in the U3 ... That's good to know. I also ordered a ER113mm chuck spindle just in case I want to use a different pulley.? > ... new set of pulleys ... > ... speed controller for it ... > ... get the speed nearly right with the belts ... Yes, same here. I wonder if there's a power curve graph available for these motors. It would help in finding the speed range with the highest torque. Thank you very much for your input. Best, JHM |
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Yes. I used your link, and selected three motors. It did not give a total price. Just shipping of $63 and change. If I changed it to two motors it dropped the shipping to about $21. For my purposes, I need 3 of them. Two Unimats, and a toolpost grinder for a larger lathe. If I wanted it sooner than August shipping could go upwards of $100. Bill in OKC? William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY! Physics doesn't care about your schedule. The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better
On Monday, June 13, 2022, 05:51:43 AM CDT, sawbona@... <sawbona@...> wrote:
Hello: > ... sure about that? Yes ... Although today it has a higher price: US$8.41 Are you looking at the link I posted? This is what I paid, the total amount reflected both on the confirmation email and my credit card movements: Motor US$? 7.92 Collet US$? 2.72 S+H?? US$19.58 Total: US$30.22 There was a US$4.00 coupon/discount for orders over US$5.00 somewhere along the line. ETA ~ early August. No taxes as the orders is not over? the US$50.00 limit. Best, JHM |
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On Tue, Jun 28, 2022 at 09:09 AM, OldToolmaker wrote: ... used for the first time one of my Unimats with the 24 volt motor conversion.My new motor finally showed up. Contrary to what I expected, the ~ US$22.00 paid for shipping had it shipped on 23/06 and arrive on 14/07, just three weeks which is quite reasonable. It must weigh over 500 grs. and shipping it over 20.000 km is not cheap these days. The time from its arrival and it getting home to me (04/08) was customs/PO delays ...? 8^¡ã Here it is: Specs: Length: 80.5 mm / 92.5 Diameter: 52.0 mm Shaft length / diameter: ? 20.5 mm / 8.0 mm? The two pairs of M3 mounting holes are 35.0 mm apart and at right angles to each other. ... to make a new motor pulley and to drill and tap a set screw ...I ordered a ER11A spindle for the shaft but made a mistake with the size, ordering the ER11-3 instead of the ER11-8. So now I have to see how to turn a 3.0 mm shaft hole into an 8.0 mm shaft hole. Material seems to be hard, so it won't be too easy. Another issue I have is the existing pulley: it has no set screws and the motor's spindle has no flat ground into it. I'd appreciate some indication of a proper solution on how to solve this for the time being. I want to keep the original pulley so it will be (to start off) on duty at Unimat the I have refurbished. I would eventually make another pulley to use with this new motor and if the U3 motor proves to be too weak for the milling table, I'll just get another one of these and sell the original U3 motor. Thanks in advance. Best, JHM |
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My 150W motors came with flats on them. I used the Unimat as a drill press and drilled and tapped a set in the center of a spare? Unimat lathe pulleys.
?Jeff -----Original Message-----
From: sawbona@... To: OldToolmaker <old_toolmaker@...>; [email protected] Sent: Fri, Aug 5, 2022 2:31 pm Subject: Re: [Unimat] Alternative motor for the Unimat SL Hello:
On Tue, Jun 28, 2022 at 09:09 AM, OldToolmaker wrote: ... used for the first time one of my Unimats with the 24 volt motor conversion.My new motor finally showed up. Contrary to what I expected, the ~ US$22.00 paid for shipping had it shipped on 23/06 and arrive on 14/07, just three weeks which is quite reasonable. It must weigh over 500 grs. and shipping it over 20.000 km is not cheap these days. The time from its arrival and it getting home to me (04/08) was customs/PO delays ...? 8^¡ã Here it is: Specs: Length: 80.5 mm / 92.5 Diameter: 52.0 mm Shaft length / diameter: ? 20.5 mm / 8.0 mm? The two pairs of M3 mounting holes are 35.0 mm apart and at right angles to each other. ... to make a new motor pulley and to drill and tap a set screw ...I ordered a ER11A spindle for the shaft but made a mistake with the size, ordering the ER11-3 instead of the ER11-8. So now I have to see how to turn a 3.0 mm shaft hole into an 8.0 mm shaft hole. Material seems to be hard, so it won't be too easy. Another issue I have is the existing pulley: it has no set screws and the motor's spindle has no flat ground into it. I'd appreciate some indication of a proper solution on how to solve this for the time being. I want to keep the original pulley so it will be (to start off) on duty at Unimat the I have refurbished. I would eventually make another pulley to use with this new motor and if the U3 motor proves to be too weak for the milling table, I'll just get another one of these and sell the original U3 motor. Thanks in advance. Best, JHM |
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On Fri, Aug 5, 2022 at 09:24 PM, Jkle379184 wrote: My 150W motors came with flats on them.Not this one, nor was there an option for a spindle with flats. Problem is that I have the wrong size spindle ...? 8^¡ã I opened up the motor to see what was going on bearings wise as I had read of bearings on these motors being so-so. Sort of makes sense as the one component a DC motor manufacturer selling one of these for ~ US$8.00 will skimp on is the bearings. The motor comes with a pair of 602Z (8x22x7) bearings made by a company called SZSDE for which I have not found any references online. So I went to the purveyor I usually purchase these things from and came back with pair of Austrian made Steyr 608ZZ for ~ US$6.50 to replace them. Less expensive than on eBay and no shipping. Curiously enough, the Chinese made bearing is a 'Z' and not a 'ZZ', which would mean that it had a metal shield on only one side but no, it has it on both sides like the 'ZZ' Steyr. Done that, I adjusted the PS to the exact 24V DC output I will be using, set up a burn-in rig and let the motor run with no load for 120 minutes to check the temperature. I was expecting it to run a bit hot as the carbons are brand new and are not making full contact yet but that was not the case. Starting off at 21.5¡ã C and checking every 20' with a IR thermometer,? it never went over 53¡ã C. Tomorrow I will switch the leads to get the opposite rotation and run it for another 120' and that will be it for the motor's burn-in. I'm still needing some help/suggestions on how to solve the lack of a flat on the motor's spindle. I guess I can drill and tap a set screw on the original pulley but will that be enough? Thanks in advance. Best, JHM |
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How hard is the motor shaft? Will a file cut it, or does it just skate off the surface? If it's not too hard, you could put the pulley on the spindle where you want it, put a punch that fits the setscrew hole in there, and put a punch mark where you need it. Or perhaps a scribe mark if you have a tungsten carbide scribe with longish tip. That will work reasonably well even on a hard shaft. A soft graphite pencil mark would be better than nothing.? Then you can file or grind a flat or a dimple in it.? HTH! Bill in OKC William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY! Physics doesn't care about your schedule. The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better
On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 04:31:18 PM CDT, sawbona@... <sawbona@...> wrote:
Hello: On Fri, Aug 5, 2022 at 09:24 PM, Jkle379184 wrote: My 150W motors came with flats on them.Not this one, nor was there an option for a spindle with flats. Problem is that I have the wrong size spindle ...? 8^¡ã I opened up the motor to see what was going on bearings wise as I had read of bearings on these motors being so-so. Sort of makes sense as the one component a DC motor manufacturer selling one of these for ~ US$8.00 will skimp on is the bearings. The motor comes with a pair of 602Z (8x22x7) bearings made by a company called SZSDE for which I have not found any references online. So I went to the purveyor I usually purchase these things from and came back with pair of Austrian made Steyr 608ZZ for ~ US$6.50 to replace them. Less expensive than on eBay and no shipping. Curiously enough, the Chinese made bearing is a 'Z' and not a 'ZZ', which would mean that it had a metal shield on only one side but no, it has it on both sides like the 'ZZ' Steyr. Done that, I adjusted the PS to the exact 24V DC output I will be using, set up a burn-in rig and let the motor run with no load for 120 minutes to check the temperature. I was expecting it to run a bit hot as the carbons are brand new and are not making full contact yet but that was not the case. Starting off at 21.5¡ã C and checking every 20' with a IR thermometer,? it never went over 53¡ã C. Tomorrow I will switch the leads to get the opposite rotation and run it for another 120' and that will be it for the motor's burn-in. I'm still needing some help/suggestions on how to solve the lack of a flat on the motor's spindle. I guess I can drill and tap a set screw on the original pulley but will that be enough? Thanks in advance. Best, JHM |
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On Mon, Aug 8, 2022 at 06:55 PM, Bill in OKC too wrote:
Can't say how hard but a file does not skate off. You don't get to mark it just so but slow and easy will do it. A sharp file and patience will surely get me there. Yes, that would not be an issue. A properly drilled/tapped hole in the pulley is. That's what I am concerned with, not mucking up an OEM U3 motor pulley. The shaft could be marked with blue and pair of parallel lines traced with the tips of a caliper, like this: Holding the motor's rotor in a jig/vice to use the scribed lines as a guide to get a proper the flat done may do the trick.? Provided the lines are parallel, both to themselves and the motor's axis. HTH!Always. 8^) Thanks a lot for your input. Best, JHM |
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Here replying to myself ... Pity posts here cannot be previewed/edited/corrected, at least for the first 24 hours. Syntax errors/spelling mistakes and bad photos don't look nice. On Tue, Aug 9, 2022 at 09:00 AM, @juliushenrymarx wrote: Holding the motor's rotor in a jig/vice to use the scribed lines as a guide to get a proper ...Done. Shaft was not hard but it is something that conspires against you if your hand file abilities are limited, like mine. That's what a lack of adecquate shop training gets you.? 8^¡ã Not withstanding, the end result does not look too bad ... ? ... and will do fine. But it is not the same as a properly milled/filed flat. The flat is ~ 5.0 mm x ~ 13.5 mm, quite enough for a set screw in any part of the OEM motor pulley. There is a very slight difference in the distance from flat to circumference between one end of the flat to the other but my MM says it is less than 0.01, so it is good enough. Now to see about the pulley. Best, JHM |
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Get or make a set of parallels for your machine vise. That can be flats of metal precisely ground to different heights, or round stock the same size or a bit smaller than the part you're clamping in the vise. They let you clamp a piece at a particular depth to expose what you want exposed to file or mill off. Then you can use the top of the vise to guide your file AND set your depth of cut. Up here in the US, a set of import graduated parallels can be had for around $40 and on up into the stratosphere. In my machining class,? we were required to make ours from pieces of ground flat tool steel. They come in pairs, one goes pressed up against each jaw of the vise to hold the part where you need it. You'll see Quinn of Blondihacks using them in her milling videos quite often.? The only way to get better at filing is to file! Practice, Practice, Practice! When I was a kid, and we needed to make stuff, we had a drill press, and an arc welder, hacksaws, files and chisels. And hammers. ;) You can do a lot with just those. I wasn't allowed to use the welder, but got a fair amount of practice with the others. You can watch videos. You can download the Nicholson files company manuals on how to file, and you can watch videos of people doing that, too. Only doing it yourself will actually help you. That said, you did a fine job on your motor shaft! It may not be perfect, but perfection is the enemy of good enough!? And as you try this stuff, you'll learn things, make things, and buy things that make your work easier, more pleasant, and faster.? ?for example of the parallels I mentioned.??? ?an example of ground flat tool steel stock. You can use drill bits, dowel pins, etc., as well. Also for non-critical uses, any old chunk of flat stock will probably do. you're not building rocket parts, and neither am I. And of course you can stack pieces to get the height you want. Sort of like shimming a lathe tool to the correct center height on a lathe. ;) Bill in OKC William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY! Physics doesn't care about your schedule. The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better
On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 08:05:26 AM CDT, sawbona@... <sawbona@...> wrote:
Hello: Here replying to myself ... Pity posts here cannot be previewed/edited/corrected, at least for the first 24 hours. Syntax errors/spelling mistakes and bad photos don't look nice. On Tue, Aug 9, 2022 at 09:00 AM, @juliushenrymarx wrote: Holding the motor's rotor in a jig/vice to use the scribed lines as a guide to get a proper ...Done. Shaft was not hard but it is something that conspires against you if your hand file abilities are limited, like mine. That's what a lack of adecquate shop training gets you.? 8^¡ã Not withstanding, the end result does not look too bad ... ? ... and will do fine. But it is not the same as a properly milled/filed flat. The flat is ~ 5.0 mm x ~ 13.5 mm, quite enough for a set screw in any part of the OEM motor pulley. There is a very slight difference in the distance from flat to circumference between one end of the flat to the other but my MM says it is less than 0.01, so it is good enough. Now to see about the pulley. Best, JHM |
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@juliushenrymarx
The flat on arbor is more than OK. Set screw will naturally? try to find its lowest position. ?As Bill in OKC?says,?you don't need (in the beginning?:) expensive tools but more practice. This is rule of thumb for everybody, including me. More expensive tools are as fragile as traditional/ cheaper ones. Only result - your mistakes will cost more. And you will always notice you need a 100 years old tool which you cannot replace with anything else. This kind of hand tool I consider is compulsory, especially when it has a flex-shaft (which you can adapt to your lathe).? It can speed-up your hand driven operations. I think it is the most versatile hand-tool. And very powerful; with a diamond disk there is nothing in this world to withstand it. You just have to learn to fit its abilities. And have to learn by yourself what are its precision limits. Because it is a hand-driven tool...And it's quite cheap, even with some bits set. For the rest, I suggest the fastest path. You want to know the difference brought by this motor. Than, don't make too?flamboyant plans. You will notice they come with lots expenses and less benefits. You have the motor, you have the pulley -just mate them. Centering the pulley hole is desirable. Good fit also. So do it carefully or let somebody skilled do it for you. Sorry, you might have some experience - some more... Hope it does not bother you. I speak as I would for me some time ago. -- NapierDeltic |
Bill in OKC too
OldToolmaker
NapierDeltic