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Roger,
It's started. Down here on the South Coast this bull was put out this morning. The massive increase it's talking about, to the best of my knowledge, is three people.

USE of UI frames and DIGIPEATING

Due to the recent massive increase in the use of UI frames and now the extended use of Digipeating, I have reluctantly decided >to turn of the digipeater on GB7VR. This was for the use of those needing to use the FBB broadcast mode on Winpack/TPK etc. >For those stations who are out of direct range of the BBS my apologies, you will need to find another BBS who's User channels >are not so badly affected.

For those of you who are creating UI frames being digipeated onto 432.675MHz please bear in mind that you are now blocking >both User channels into the BBS. Digipeated frames are sent without regard to the use of the AX.25 protocol and hence are >repeated without waiting. You might also bear in mind that for every packet that is sent via a digipeater the packet will be >repeated on EVERY channel that is enabled. Thus a 6 port Node allowing Digi'ing to all ports will generate 6 additional packets. >Currently the BBS sees the same UI frame repeated 3 times, the original, the digipeated packet on 144.950 and the digipeated >packet on 432.675, other Nodes may well see many more copies! You may also wish to bear in mind that for every UI frame sent >in a connected session then there will be 14 UI frames generated when digipeated via a 6 port node (original + 6 copies, >ACK + 6 copies).

IF the increase of UI frames and Digipeating continues to grow then to ensure that the BBS can continue to function, it will be >necessary to turn of the FBB broadcast protocol, this will obviously affect all users of the BBS - you will have to revert to >connecting and obtaining a list of messages manually and then selecting those messages to be read.

73 Geoff G8DHE @ GB7VRB - Sysop Worthing Video Repeater Group BBS
geoff@...

I did attend a meeting of the local packet user group (SUNPAC) and whilst they were not for or against the use of UI-View (they have agreed to put locators in the text of their beacons on BBs's and nodes) they have said that the auto digipeating facility was never switched on, on their nodes because of the increase in traffic it would generate.

Keep up the good work.

73 - Eddy, G6UQI

In article <000f01be8967$50421f20$ce5a95c1@pbncomputer>, Eddy Payne
<EJPayne@...> writes

Roger,
It's started. Down here on the South Coast this bull
was put out this morning. The massive increase it's talking about,
to the best of my knowledge, is three people.

[snip]

Yes, I was aware of the situation regarding GB7VRB, G8DHE and also one
of his remote sysops.

Surely a first step should be for the few users of UI-View to stop
digipeating via G8DHE's node and see if they then stop complaining?

Also, read the comments in the "Station Setup" section of the help about
sending beacons. Try and make sure that you aren't sending out beacons
too often - every 30 minutes is adequate - and that you aren't sending
out a UI-View beacon and also sending a beacon from your TNC BTEXT or
from WinPack.

Otherwise, the only advice I can offer is - Take heed of the "It Might
Not Be For You..." section of the UI-View help. There's no point in
getting involved in a battle with the local sysop over the use of the
program!

Anyone who understands BPQ and reads the comments from G8DHE will
realise that at least some of what he is saying is completely wrong, but
that isn't going to make him change his mind! I attempted to reply to
some of his previous comments via one of his users, without success.

Also, anyone who can do a few sums can easily show that the total volume
of traffic being generated by UI-View use will pale into insignificance
compared to a user downloading a few bulletins from the BBS.

The real problem is that:-

(a) An attitude has developed in the UK that "packet = using the BBS
network", and the packet channels are to be used for nothing other than
accessing BBSs.

(b) Packet has almost ceased to be an amateur radio mode. Not only do
some users never think of packet in terms of self-training and
experimentation, but they complain if anyone else does!

--
Roger Barker, G4IDE roger@...
Boston, UK

Hi all,

This is a bit long, but stick with it!

As a longtime APRS user I can tell you that this attitude will spread very
quickly amongst BBS users. The latest case I can quote happened, and to a
certain extent still does, from stations in the Norwich area. I managed to
get three BBS to include their APRS posn and a number of end users to not
only change their btext but also have a go with the software.

But a lot of complaints, even to the DCC, about use of APRS led to the BBS'
removing their posns to keep users happy. At the time we were using 144.850,
my WIDE digi was able to link, on a good day, the south coast, Suffolk and
up to G4IDE in Lincs, but only APRS beacons that were set to use RELAY WIDE.

Even though we stopped using APRS on the freq, the btexts didn't change as
everyone sends beacons. But still the complaints kept coming. Then a number
of complainers started beaconing every 6 mins things like..... Get APRS off
144.850..... Does APRS need an NOV. So we decided to move APRS activity off
the BBS access freq and went to 144.825. In Suffolk and the surrounding area
there is no 9k6 activity so it made sense to us. We've had no complaints at
all, there are three trackers, approximatley7 or so users and my WIDE digi
so activity isn't too bad.

The revised band plan that Iain Phillips released a while back made mention
of a dedicated APRS freq. Hopefully this will be confirmed when the
re-revised band plan is released in May (?). I urge you all to use that freq
to get the most from APRS/UI-View.

On the subject of unproto here is the thinking that has been developed over
the last 5+ years in the states:

The whole idea is to be able to communicate with anyone that is on your map
and also ensure maximum coverage for mobile and qrp stations. If we all used
any old alias for our digis then it would be complicated to achieve a wide
area of coverage. So ALL stations should have their alias set to RELAY those
that live on top of maountains or have good coverage should set it to WIDE.

So, we all set our unproto to RELAY WIDE or even RELAY,WIDE,WIDE to ensure
maximum coverage. Why do we need such coverage? Two examples:

1. I'm going to travel to Yorks from my qth in Suffolk. If we all use RELAY
and WIDE on our digi's then I can set my car trackers unproto to RELAY WIDE
and ensure maximum coverage without having to reprogram it enroute. Remember
I said that I can hear Lincs from my WIDE. SO if there's a WIDE in Lincs I
could be sat in Yorks with my 25 watt mobile and people on the south coast
could not only see me moving, but send me messages as well!

2. I'm on foot, in Ipswich with my THD7 that has the ability to send
messages. My unproto is RELAY,WIDE,WIDE. By using a RELAY in Ipswich, My
WIDE in Wattisham and a WIDE in Lincs I could be having a packet qso with
someone north of Roger!!

Hope you all understood all of that!

If any of you would like to join my APRSUK list it can be found at onelist
like this one.

73...Ciemon Dunville g0trt@...
APRS UK
!5207.40N/00058.35E-PHG7268/ QRA:JO02lc QTH Wattisham Suffolk

From: Roger Barker <roger@...>

Also, anyone who can do a few sums can easily show that the total volume

of traffic being generated by UI-View use will pale into insignificance
compared to a user downloading a few bulletins from the BBS.

The real problem is that:-

(a) An attitude has developed in the UK that "packet = using the BBS
network", and the packet channels are to be used for nothing other than
accessing BBSs.

(b) Packet has almost ceased to be an amateur radio mode. Not only do
some users never think of packet in terms of self-training and
experimentation, but they complain if anyone else does!

As a Sysop here at Rugeley (GB7RUG), a BBS which looks after 40+ users, I
encourage the use of UI-VIEW on my mailbox 144.850Mhz port, via a seperate
machine running UI-View, interlinked to the main node and mailbox. I can
support no Sysop that doesn't! There is nothing to support the argument,
that UI-VIEW is taking over or increasing traffic on mailbox ports. The
mailbox and its users,
are unaffected by the passive UI frames, while they are connected to the
mailbox.


I take an active approach, by encouraging all my users to try experimentation
and new additions within Packet radio, whether it be hardware or software. If
we fail to try these new, modes, which encourage good software writers like
Roger, and hardware designers, where will packet Radio be in the next be in
the next 10years?


UI-View in the future will be a very valuable asset to Amateurs, and other
aspects of life in the future, its up to "all" to support it!



Steve (G1KQH) Sysop @ GB7RUG.#28.gbr.eu

In article <001401be89b2$fad50100$9bbd883e@ciemon>, Ciemon Dunville
<g0trt@...> writes

As a longtime APRS user I can tell you that this attitude will spread very
quickly amongst BBS users. The latest case I can quote happened, and to a
certain extent still does, from stations in the Norwich area. I managed to
get three BBS to include their APRS posn and a number of end users to not
only change their btext but also have a go with the software.

But a lot of complaints, even to the DCC, about use of APRS led to the BBS'
removing their posns to keep users happy. At the time we were using 144.850,
my WIDE digi was able to link, on a good day, the south coast, Suffolk and
up to G4IDE in Lincs, but only APRS beacons that were set to use RELAY WIDE.

[snip]

So, we all set our unproto to RELAY WIDE or even RELAY,WIDE,WIDE to ensure
maximum coverage. Why do we need such coverage? Two examples:

[snip]

Doesn't the above very much represent a self-fulfilling prophecy? ;-)

"You will get opposition from BBS users ... We need to set our digis to
RELAY,WIDE ..."

If people would read the following sections of the UI-View help -
"Introduction", "Station Setup" and "It Might Not Be For You..." - I
hope that I have made my opinion about the use of beacons and digis on
the BBS frequencies clear.

If/when you use the program other than on the BBS frequencies, the
caution I have advised doesn't apply. The reality, however, is that most
people are going to use it on the BBS frequencies, because that is where
their packet systems "live". No matter how good APRS is, few are going
to permanently move their systems onto a dedicated APRS frequency, even
when one is agreed.

What I see happening at the moment is that an image of UI-View is being
projected by comments to the UIVIEW packet topic, that wide area
digipeating is a prerequisite of using the program, which isn't true.

So, to repeat what I've said several times before - Do as much, or as
little in the way of digipeating as is locally acceptable. Don't create
local confrontation for the sake of making the program work better.

--
Roger Barker, G4IDE roger@...
Boston, UK

I never did understand the 'APRS needs an NoV' arguement. Can someone
explain what the reasoning was please?

As far as I can see, many stations send beacons and you have to identify in
some format. Since UI frames are used for unconnected packets, such as when
you unexpectedly loose a connection for some reason, or decide to call 'CQ'
(Now, that takes me back to the days before NODES and Digipeaters, when you
had to find someone else using packet to be able to connect at all. HI!)
then UI frames should be 'OK'. So, where the arguments against APRS based on?

That is, other than the usuall mistrust of anything new, or that is not
understood by the complainant. :o)

de Dave (G0DJA)