Keyboard Shortcuts
ctrl + shift + ? :
Show all keyboard shortcuts
ctrl + g :
Navigate to a group
ctrl + shift + f :
Find
ctrl + / :
Quick actions
esc to dismiss
Likes
Search
Spotting modifiers
|
It's placed on the table - but that doesn't mean it is spotted. It just means you know it is there, not that your troops know exactly where the guys firing at them are On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 at 14:13, Dan <dan.albrecht.vt@...> wrote: Have a question. |
|
Yes, they are replaced with figures - but that is not the same as being spotted! Even if figures are on the table, opposing troops still need to spot them; it's easier than spotting a blind, but you still need to roll. On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 at 15:36, Dan <dan.albrecht.vt@...> wrote: I'm not sure what you mean |
|
Sure, but as you quoted yourself, there is also a?+1 spotting modifier for units which have fired. So We've always played that unit on the table are known to the force commander (you) but not necessarily visible to the troops on the ground. On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 at 16:43, Dan <dan.albrecht.vt@...> wrote: sorry, not trying to pick a fight but Section 3 states: |
|
I hear what you are saying... I guess I should have said.............
This rule:??"add +1" to attempt to spot role if target fired this turn"? makes no sense in light of all the citations in the rules. If that was the case......then all the firing rules should have said:..."you must always use your first action to spot.........before firing...." |
|
Surely that would only apply if you were planning to shoot at a target that you had not yet spotted, ie one represented by a blind? On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 at 19:49, Dan <dan.albrecht.vt@...> wrote: I hear what you are saying... I guess I should have said............. --
Nick Meredith nick.meredith@... |
|
You are correct, Nick.? The confusion I? have is with the wording of this modifier: "add +1" to attempt to spot role if target fired this turn"
The problem is that this + 1 modifier to spotting would never be applicable..........because the moment a unit fires...........the blind comes off.....? ?That's why I'm confused.... |
¿ªÔÆÌåÓý
Is this rule not to reflect the "real time" conditions that when a section comes under fire it does? not automatically know where the fire came from? That's the logic I apply - most of my WW2 gaming is in the Normandy bocage and this rule makes sound sense
to me.
Hope that helps rather than confuses!
Mick
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Dan <dan.albrecht.vt@...>
Sent: 27 January 2020 21:17 To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [TooFatLardies] Spotting modifiers ?
You are correct, Nick.? The confusion I? have is with the wording of this modifier: "add +1" to attempt to spot role if target fired this turn"
The problem is that this + 1 modifier to spotting would never be applicable..........because the moment a unit fires...........the blind comes off.....? ?That's why I'm confused.... |
|
I hear what you are saying Nick..........the phenomenon you are describing however is capture in the "Ambush" rule:
AN AMBUSH OCCURS ANY TIME AN UNSPOTTED UNIT THAT IS ACTIVATED BY ITS BLINDS CARD (NOT ON THE T EA bREAK CARD) OPENS FIRE FROM BLINDS OR A HIDDEN POSITION AT CLOSE RANGE. FIRE OCCURS AS NORMAL, BUT TO REPRESENT THE IMPACT OF SURPRISE ANY SHOCK INFLICTED ON THE TARGET UNIT IN THE FIRST ROUND OF FIRE IS DOUBLED.?
.but IABSM Version 3 clearly states: Section 2.1, page 22,? Blinds are replaced with figures when they are spotted by the enemy or?when the troops they represent open fire. (page 27) Spotting is only used against Blinds or areas of terrain that may hide unspotted units. Would be great if Richard Clarke or Nick Skinner could let us know what they meant with this modifier.?? |
|
Hi Dan, I was puzzled by the modifier too, and wondered if it was an error, perhaps a survival of an earlier edition of the rules that got missed in the editing process.? However, I now think the modifier might be used in the rare situation where a unit fires but is not immediately deployed from the blind.? The basic rule is indeed that units are deployed from blinds when they open fire, but (a) an umpire might make an exception in particular circumstances, and (b) there is at least one specific exception in the rules, see section 3.4 Spotting at Night.? The rule refers to units opening fire at night being marked by a single stand, and are only fully revealed after firing 3 times, or unless spotted.? Presumably, the modifier would apply in these circumstances. Craig B.
On Tuesday, 28 January 2020, 02:43:39 am AEST, Dan <dan.albrecht.vt@...> wrote:
sorry, not trying to pick a fight but Section 3 states: (page 27) Spotting is only used against Blinds or areas of terrain that may hide unspotted units. (page 28) To spot the player first states which enemy blind or area of terrain he is attempting to spot. |
|
It¡¯s neither a typo nor an exception. When a unit comes off a blind to fire it still needs to be spotted by the enemy before they can shoot back at it. It simple ceases to be a unit on a Blind but becomes ¡°an area of terrain occupied by an unspotted unit¡± which is the second category of things you use the spotting rules to see as per page 27.
John |
|
Thanks, John.? On a personal note, let me first say, I appreciate your guidance and explanations. I posted a rather long reply on the IABSM Facebook page. I do understand your point of view. I'm just frustrated because your explanation is directly contradicted by other parts of the rules and your explanation is not stated anywhere in the rules that I could find.
Your explanation is reasonable. I posted some possible "comprises" in the Facebook comments.? Thanks, Dan |
|
Hi John, We've never played it like that, and on the one occasion I helped Rich run a game, he didn't (although I know he can be as prone to forget things as the rest of us!). Also, the one example which mentions spotting and firing, on p.17, allows the units on overwatch to fire immediately the unspotted unit has opened fire, without any spotting. 'An area of terrain that may hide an unspotted unit' just refers to the the fact that unspotted units don't put down blinds unless they move. I'm pretty sure this was discussed years ago and Rich's answer was that this is guidance for scenarios where spotting is harder for some reason (night fighting, heavy mist, firer very well camouflaged or the like), so firing may not be an automatic giveaway, unlike normal conditions. Cheers, Jim On Tue, 28 Jan 2020 01:58 John Ewing via Groups.Io, <jonewing1=[email protected]> wrote: It¡¯s neither a typo nor an exception. When a unit comes off a blind to fire it still needs to be spotted by the enemy before they can shoot back at it. It simple ceases to be a unit on a Blind but becomes ¡°an area of terrain occupied by an unspotted unit¡± which is the second category of things you use the spotting rules to see as per page 27. |
|
Thanks, James Catchpole...? ?good info to know and seems to make sense. I've played several games and also engaged in numerous discussions about blinds, ambushes, etc on the TFL Forum and on FB and the general assumption is:
you are Either on a Blind or acting as a blind if hidden in terrain...........the moment you open fire, you are revealed to all. as supported by the following citations: page 22:?Blinds are replaced with figures when they are spotted by the enemy or?when the troops they represent open fire page 27: Spotting is only used against Blinds or areas of terrain that may hide unspotted units. page 28: To spot the player first states which enemy blind or area of terrain he is attempting to spot. Adding that modifier just seems to piling on too many shackles to the section (e.g. Brits) that just got shot at. If a (e.g. German) unit is hidden in terrain and then comes off its blind to fire, at minimum it is in Somewhat Obscured (Okay Shot) and many times......Badly Obscured......(Poor Shot). That being said, requiring a Spotting Action on a Unit-That-Fired-At-You for heavy fog, night, thick forest (e.g. Hurtgen) could make some sense |
Nick
to navigate to use esc to dismiss