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Effects of fisticuffs on charging cavalry
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In sharp practice, do charging cavalry that break the infantry group they attack continue their next activation at gallop? We had a game last night where charging British cavalry kept going down the road in a series of successful charges/fisticuffs without any pause. I can see it could happen but what do people think?
Kevin |
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We have always played that entering into Fisticuffs brings cavalry to a halt. Horses won't just charge headlong into what look like solid obstructions. On Thu, 5 Mar 2020 10:48 kevinjnivek via Groups.Io, <kevin.poynter=[email protected]> wrote: In sharp practice, do charging cavalry that break the infantry group they attack continue their next activation at gallop? We had a game last night where charging British cavalry kept going down the road in a series of successful charges/fisticuffs without any pause. I can see it could happen but what do people think? |
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How long can cavalry gallop?? That should be the limit.? At that point the horses are "blown" and you halt or walk them or they drop.? Cavalry in the attack, in Fisticuffs, don't stop to engage.? They keep moving.? The majority of casualties, especially against infantry, is inflicted when your opponent runs.? Cavalry versus cavalry may pursue until their horses stop on their own, blown.? That is when your cavalry are vulnerable to counter-attack.? Being able to hold you cavalry back after defeating enemy cavalry is the sign of a good leader and disciplined cavalry.? It is difficult.? Control is lost on contact. Halting your cavalry in the pursuit of infantry is more common.? Horses run faster.? Infantry runs longer.? A short pursuit and there are no infantry left to pursue, they having surrendered, been killed, or escaped. Need I pull out the rule book? Michael Reese |
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A hotly debated point. You could equally argue that if the fisticuffs was a win for the cavalry, that they charged through their opponent dealing out damage and continuing their careering charge.?
cheers
Doug
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of James Catchpole via Groups.Io <jlcatchpole@...>
Sent: 05 March 2020 11:10 AM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [TooFatLardies] Effects of fisticuffs on charging cavalry ?
We have always played that entering into Fisticuffs brings cavalry to a halt. Horses won't just charge headlong into what look like solid obstructions.
On Thu, 5 Mar 2020 10:48 kevinjnivek via Groups.Io, <kevin.poynter=[email protected]> wrote:
In sharp practice, do charging cavalry that break the infantry group they attack continue their next activation at gallop? We had a game last night where charging British cavalry kept going down the road in a series of successful charges/fisticuffs without any pause. I can see it could happen but what do people think? _._,_._,_
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On the scale of a SP table a horse could easily gallop from one end to the other and back again. Isn't there a Peninsular war example of French cavalry charging through one infantry battalion, into another, breaking that and into a third??
I would be inclined to allow a charging cavalry unit that wins by four or more to continue to the full length of it's move, fighting subsequent bouts of fisticuffs provided it won by four or more. If you wanted to represent loss of control you should have to
play command cards to make it halt before that.? Presumably it will be picking up shock and casualties in each 'bout' - so I suppose the real question is - do they count as being at the gallop for the purposes of their next activation? You could adapt the
'pulling up' rule at the bottom of p39.?
I suspect this is one for Rich to answer.
Doug
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Michael Reese <mrtank688@...>
Sent: 05 March 2020 3:40 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [TooFatLardies] Effects of fisticuffs on charging cavalry ?
How long can cavalry gallop?? That should be the limit.? At that point the horses are "blown" and you halt or walk them or they drop.? Cavalry in the attack, in Fisticuffs, don't stop to engage.? They keep moving.? The majority of casualties, especially against
infantry, is inflicted when your opponent runs.? Cavalry versus cavalry may pursue until their horses stop on their own, blown.? That is when your cavalry are vulnerable to counter-attack.? Being able to hold you cavalry back after defeating enemy cavalry
is the sign of a good leader and disciplined cavalry.? It is difficult.? Control is lost on contact.
Halting your cavalry in the pursuit of infantry is more common.? Horses run faster.? Infantry runs longer.? A short pursuit and there are no infantry left to pursue, they having surrendered, been killed, or escaped.
Need I pull out the rule book?
Michael Reese
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开云体育The rule book is silent on the matter,
the FAQ has two items related to this, although it doesn't answer
this directly:-
Q: A cavalry unit galloped into combat and lost, it was thrown back 6 inches. What speed is it now doing? A: It has undertaken a 180 degree turn; it must be walking. Q: What happens if my cavalry charge into Fisticuffs with a Group of infantry who are only 6” away. I roll 18” of movement, I defeat the infantry and they withdraw 8”. Do I continue my movement to fight them again? A: No. You have ridden into contact and fought them If you win you remain stationary. Whether you are able to continue your charge and contact them again will depend on the run of the cards and your use of Command Cards. On 05/03/2020 15:40, Michael Reese wrote:
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开云体育Are you thinking of this?
On 05/03/2020 16:26, Doug Melville wrote:
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开云体育I’m old, my memory is occasionally unreliable. ? ? And it looks like Rich has already answered this one in the FAQ, they are Heisenberg’s Cavalry, simultaneously moving at charge speed and stationary after combat. ? Doug ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of James Catchpole via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, 5 March 2020 5:15 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [TooFatLardies] Effects of fisticuffs on charging cavalry ? Are you thinking of this?
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开云体育In reality I can’t imagine a good heavy cavalry regiment being stopped by infantry unless the infantry had good fire control and were very steady.?It depends on ground and a lot of variables but in a game not likely.? Best Regards
Mike Leese
(N. Wales)
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开云体育KGL cavalry could be held?British cavalry look what happened to the Union Brigade.?
The Household Cavalry had a better reputation and the NCO’s had fern control.?
Light cavalry weren’t as good they thought they were on a hunt.?
Some Regiments better than others.? Best Regards
Mike Leese
(N. Wales)
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I don't know that the Household Cavalry were any better. Limited battle experience, but the propaganda machine has always puffed them up.?
(Discuss.. :) )
Doug
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Mike Leese <mike.leese@...>
Sent: 06 March 2020 12:04 AM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [TooFatLardies] Effects of fisticuffs on charging cavalry ?
KGL cavalry could be held?
British cavalry look what happened to the Union Brigade.?
The Household Cavalry had a better reputation and the NCO’s had fern control.?
Light cavalry weren’t as good they thought they were on a hunt.?
Some Regiments better than others.?
Best Regards
Mike Leese
(N. Wales)
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Well, exactly.
I am always rather sceptical about the claims made for so-called elite units. Just because one might be called "Guards" or be hand-picked to protect the monarch and wear nice uniforms says absolutely nothing about how they might perform in battle. The proof, as they say, is in the pudding. The same thing applies to "veterans". When you look at the claims, quite often veterans are basically just better at not getting killed, which might imply a more well-developed sense of caution rather than anything else. Carole |
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Yep, we should really rethink troop classifications and include definitions such as:
'Nice outfits' ->?
'Well 'ard' ->?
'New enough to not know any better'
'Why do we always get volunteered?'
'Ok, if they're doing it, I suppose we have to too' ->??
'What are we doing here again?' ->?
'You go and get shot at, if you're so keen'.
'Listen mate, we showed up, but we're not daft'
Veterans might be better described as 'crafty'. I always think of this in the context of 7th Armoured and 51st HD after D-Day. i tend to think of it as a 'work to rule'.?
cheers
Doug
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Well, exactly.
I am always rather sceptical about the claims made for so-called elite units. Just because one might be called "Guards" or be hand-picked to protect the monarch and wear nice uniforms says absolutely nothing about how they might perform in battle. The proof, as they say, is in the pudding. The same thing applies to "veterans". When you look at the claims, quite often veterans are basically just better at not getting killed, which might imply a more well-developed sense of caution rather than anything else. Carole |
开云体育They pulled a light cavalry Regt out of trouble the day before Waterloo versus line lancers in or around a village but they didn’t pursue.?I’ve forgotten the name of the village, it’s on the tip of my tongue,
It will turn up later. Hopefully? Best Regards
Mike Leese
(N. Wales)
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开云体育In the ACW veteran units were more cautious.?In the SYW and Napoleonic wars discipline was ferociously enforces.?
I can only speak of the British and Prussian armies.?
In the British Army it was the fear of letting down your friends, and still is. Best Regards
Mike Leese
(N. Wales)
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They pulled a light cavalry Regt out of trouble the day before Waterloo versus line lancers in or around a village but they didn’t pursue.? |
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On 7 Mar 2020, at 07:42, Chris Gilbride <chris.gilbride@...> wrote:
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1. Reading the rules on the subject: Scouting Cavalry and Impact Cavalry (defined Page 11)may continue a charge after successfully winning a Fisticuffs. 2. Dragoons (as defined on page 11), and irregular cavalry are halted and or reduced to a walk after a successful Fisticuffs, mounted or dismounted. Scouting and Heavy Cavalry at the Cantor or Charge may continue their movement at the same speed IF the result of their Fisticuffs is to win by 4 or more in the FIRST ROUND. (See page 55 for result of losing by 4 or more) This movement is equal to the movement left over from their charge into Fisticuffs.If no movement is left the cavalry remain in position moving at the speed they had at the beginning of the Fisticuffs. If Fisticuffs last more than one round the charging cavalry end their advance. Cavalry that can continue their charge may attempt to Pull Up (page 39). Subtract 1 to the die roll if the cavalry is "aggressive "(page 84), and if the attack is made under a "Tally Ho" card(page 85). Add 1 to the die roll if the cavalry is In Hand (page 84) and if the Cavalry is "stubborn" (page 84). The above rule may also be applied to infantry attack columns. In this case an attempt to "Pull up" is decreased by one if the column is under a "Pas de Charge" action. Don't expect a breakthrough to occur often. The defenders must have at least more shock than figures for the assault to have any chance to pursue. HOUSE RULES for SHARP PRACTICE for breakthroughs by cavalry and by infantry columns in Fisticuffs. Mike Reese |
Michael Reese
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