Re: Programming my old RTG-30

Nico,

I may have missed a few things in the last emails, so let me recapitulate a few things.?

A:?If you have the Byonics USB cable you need to download and install the USB drivers from the Byonics website to make it work.

B: If you have Windows 11, this might present problems. Call Bill Gates and let him know.

C: The current TT3 Config works with almost every old Micro-Trak transmitter, and it will work with your RTG-30, but you must read your configuration before you can write a config to the unit. Don't unplug your transmitter, because the Config program needs to know what device you have before it will write a new config, and it won't remember what you set last time.

D: The USB-TT3 cable will provide power for programming. Don't apply external power. Don't use a Null Modem adapter; the cable is already wired correctly .

E: After you have read your version, the Configuration program will allow you to open the "Edit Telemetry" button. Leave the default settings, which will allow Voltage and Telemetry to be sent as raw values. Don't enter any definitions into the telemetry fields in the config; this is an ancient thing, which will cause your RTG to send the definitions?into the APRS-IS all the time, wasting bandwidth and possibly introducing?error.?

To send your definitions to the APRS-IS, go to:?http://findu.com/cgi-bin//entermsg.cgi

?

Send the following messages to the callsign of the RTG one at a time. I suggest cutting and pasting these, as typos will cause massive errata:

UNIT.Volts,Deg.F

?

PARM.Battery,Temp

?????????????????????????????????????

EQNS.0,0.0293,0,0,0.879,-459.67

Note that the EQNS values are different with other transmitters; These are the correct values for the an RTG in the Fahrenheit-speaking world. ( Celsius is for communists and people like that)? You can then use the graphing features to aprs.fi, etc to display your actual supply voltage and board temperature.?

You can make the V and T values show up in the main comment field by using the ^V and ^T in the comment field if you want to see the values frequently.

If this last part makes you uncomfortable, let me know your the RTG's callsign and I will send it in for you. NOTE: Don't change other peoples definitions by accident!?

73,

Allen AF6OF

Show quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: Nico L. <nico@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tue, Mar 28, 2023 10:00 am
Subject: Re: [TinyTrak] Programming my old RTG-30

Excellent. Thanks much!

Re: Programming my old RTG-30

#1776

Excellent. Thanks much!

Re: Programming my old RTG-30

#1775

On Tue, Mar 28, 2023 at 12:40 PM, Nico L. wrote:

So, assuming it reads ok, I disconnect the cable from the RTG after the read. When I want to write the new config, I click Write and only then plug it back into the RTG?

That should work.
I would just leave it connected, make changes to the config, then after hitting <Write Config> disconnect and reconnect the cable.
But your way works as well.

Re: Programming my old RTG-30

#1774

Ohboyohboy, that seems convoluted. Thank you for the reply, Rob. Not sure if I would have figured this out by myself via trial and error. I was not going to use the null-modem cable in addition to the USB one. But I would have just connected it all and then tried to Read the config.?

So, assuming it reads ok, I disconnect the cable from the RTG after the read. When I want to write the new config, I click Write and only then plug it back into the RTG?

Thanks so much!

Nico W3NCL

Re: Programming my old RTG-30

#1773

I assume the RTG-30 follows the Byonics standard of sending commands at startup (boot) for entering the bootloader.
Typically, you would disconnect (cycle) the 12V power which has a regulator to the microcontroller and that would cause the microcontroller to go into the bootloader.?

I believe the Byonics TT USB is configured such that you do NOT need the null-modem interface.
It is already configured as such - from teh Byonics - Cables page:

The TT USB cable will connect a TinyTrak3Plus, TinyTrak4, or MT-RTG to a computer USB port for configuring and operating. In addition,
if the TinyTrak is set for 5V on J7 (TT3+) or JP6 (TT4) to power a Byonics GPS, the TT USB will also provide the USB 5V to power the TinyTrak.
It is essentially a USB A to DB-9 female RS-232 serial adapter plus a F-F null modem cable, with the bonus of providing 5V to power the TinyTrak
via pin DB-9 4. Note: The TinyTrak or MicroTrak should NOT be connected to 12V when using the TT USB.

If you are using the Byonics TT USB, it 'probably' powers the microcontroller of of the RTG-30 through pin 4 of the DE9 which connects to pin 2 of the 6-miniDIN.
Best way to tell this is if the LEDs are active without the 12V power attached.? If yes, then the RTG-30 is being powered by the TT USB.
This prevents the toggling of power to get the RTG-30 into the bootloader.

That leaves 2 ways of toggling power to get into the bootloader with the TT USB - but only one works!
This should work:
? ? ?Be sure to leave the 12V power disconnected
? ? ?Leave the TT USB connected to the computer, but disconnected from the? RTG-30.??
? ? ? ? ? If you try to use this to cycle power, the computer will not 'see' the COM port in time
? ? ?Start the configuration application and make sure the proper COM port (and settings) are correct
? ? ?Select <Read Config>
? ? ?Then plug the TT USB cable into the RTG-30
The application should populate with the current settings.
? ? Making changes, you should be able to just disconnect/reconnect the TT USB and RTG when you <Write Config>

Hope this helps!
-------
Robert Giuliano
KB8RCO

Programming my old RTG-30

#1772

I set up my old RTG-30 (bought in 2012) on my boat, and it's working fine. However, I need to change the settings to change the SSID and symbol from car to boat. When I initially tried to do this I downloaded the latest TT3 software and connected my old Byonics null-modem serial cable. After gighting with the prolific driver issue I got the COM port to work at least. However, Every time I hit Read Data it couldn't find the RTG-30.

I figured maybe the problem is my USB-to-serial that I plugged the null-modem into and ordered the Byonics TT USB cable, which arrived yesterday.?

Question: Should this work now, or might there be an issue with the latest TT3 software talking to a 2012 RTG-30? If so, does anyone know where I can download an older version of the software? I'm trying to be prepared for all contingencies for when I'm going down to the marina later.

Thanks much!

Nico W3NCL

Re: Micro-Trak RTG

#1771

Hi Allen,

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I just wanted to verify something after digging out my RTG-30. For your FINDU hack, do I just leave the "Edit Telemetry" all blank in TT3 and then just include ^V and ^T in the Status (Comment) field? I take it that sends the raw values, and I would then send that FINDU message as the callsign/SSID of the RTG, right?

And should I uncheck "Send Telemetry"?

Thanks!

Nico W3NCL

Re: No PTT after upgrade to 0.72

#1770

Curious - did you put the old version back in the TT4 to see if it still works?

If you don't have the firmware file, I can probably find it.

OR ...

Have you tried any versions between 0.6 and 0.72?

???? I might suggest 0.68 (zip file attached) - I happened to have handy.

Robert Giuliano
KB8RCO

On Sunday, March 26, 2023 at 01:13:00 AM EDT, Roger Hill ZL1VCC <freighternut@...> wrote:

Many thanks to all those who have replied with suggestions.

I have re-installed the firmware ensuring that I have installed the correct firmware (TT4_Alpha_v0.72_644.TT4).

I have also been through the configuration and corrected any errors occurred during uploading the configuration back up from the previous version. Still I have no PTT action. I can discount the cabling and the radio as these work fine with a TT4 running the older firmware.

Any further suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

tt4_alpha_v0.68.zip

Re: No PTT after upgrade to 0.72

#1769

Many thanks to all those who have replied with suggestions.

I have re-installed the firmware ensuring that I have installed the correct firmware (TT4_Alpha_v0.72_644.TT4).

I have also been through the configuration and corrected any errors occurred during uploading the configuration back up from the previous version. Still I have no PTT action. I can discount the cabling and the radio as these work fine with a TT4 running the older firmware.

Any further suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Re: New TinyTrak Group Member 8000FA Questions.

#1768

1. You say that pins 2 and 3 must be crossed on the programming cable and I understand that. But on both the PC pins and the MT8k pins you have pin 2 as Rx and pin 3 as Tx. ?Should it instead be pin 2 Rx and pin 3 Tx on the PC side and Pin 2 Tx and Pin 3 Rx on the MT8k side?

No, the pin definitions don't change. The best way to look at the serial cable is by the type of connector (if the standard is followed).

The connector with MALE pins (like is standard on a PC, you can call the master (not true RS232 terminology)

? ?? 2 - RX and 3-TX????????? Pin 2 is ALWAYS RX on the TT4 and ALWAYS RX on the computer (they both have male pins)

The connector with female pins (like on most GPS'es), you can call the slave (again, not RS232 terminology)

??? 2-TX and 3-RX???????????? So they talk to each other

Interestingly, the the other pins maintain their names, even though the wiring is crossed.

??? like 4 is DTR in both connectors.? And they maintain their function.? RX and TX must swap to communicate.

Since the MT8K is designed to act as the master (it has male pins) with a GPS slave (it has female pins), the labeling is correct.

The computer is also designed to be a master (it has male pins) so that t can connect to devices like? a GPS as a slave.

2. After soldering up the described cable with DB-9 connectors I will still need to connect to a USB-A on the PC. Does it make any difference if I use a serial to USB adapter with FTDI chip or a Prolific chip?

As Allen stated, the MT8K requires RS232 levels (not TTL).

The chip in use is not the important part.?? The important part of the adapter would be the voltage levels and logic directionexistance MAX232 chip

Looking for examples on Amazon (not endorsement, just known, easy lookup)

?? OIKAN USB to RS232 adapter (FTDI) - Works!?????????????????????? (requires external power to MT8k)

?? SABRENT USB to RS232 adapter (Prolific) - WORKS!?????????? (requires external power to MT8k)

IMPORTANT!!!

?? Do not connect pin 4 on the MT8K to this adapter.? The voltage level is not 5V

?? DSD Tech USB to TTL serial adapter (FTDI) - NO GOOD!

?? DTech USB to TTL Serial Adapter (Prolific) - NO GOOD!

?? Any of the Cp21xx chips (China) - NO GOOD

Robert Giuliano
KB8RCO

On Saturday, March 25, 2023 at 03:33:11 PM EDT, Stephen Grob via groups.io <sgrob@...> wrote:

Rob,?

?Yes, that is exactly what I’m looking for. Thank you - this helps a lot. But I do have a couple of questions.

1. You say that pins 2 and 3 must be crossed on the programming cable and I understand that. But on both the PC pins and the MT8k pins you have pin 2 as Rx and pin 3 as Tx. ?Should it instead be pin 2 Rx and pin 3 Tx on the PC side and Pin 2 Tx and Pin 3 Rx on the MT8k side??

2. After soldering up the described cable with DB-9 connectors I will still need to connect to a USB-A on the PC. Does it make any difference if I use a serial to USB adapter with FTDI chip or a Prolific chip?

Thanks again for your help.

73

Steve

KD9AER

Show quoted text

On Mar 24, 2023, at 8:49 PM, Rob Giuliano via groups.io <kb8rco@...> wrote:

I didn't see a response from Byonics, so I'll give some feedback.
The MT8k connector is designed to connect to a GPS, so has the same pinout as the computer.
You will need to cross pins 2 and 3 for the 2 devices to communicate.

Since you already commented on the 12V power, the connection from the computer to the MT8k would be:
? ??PC Pin DE9F ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? MT8K Pin DE9M (already soldered on according to post)
??? 2???? Rx ??????????????????????????????????????? Tx ??? 3
??? 3???? Tx ???????????????????????????????????????? Rx ?? 2??? Note the 10k resistor on the schematic
??? 4???? Pin 6 (same connector) ??????? 5V (only if 12V is not applied on the other connection)
??? 5???? Gnd ????????????????????????????????????? Gnd? 5
The short between pis 4 and 6 on the computer side may not be requires, but won't cause problems

If you only want to power the MT8k micro (and not the amp), you could back feed 5V into pin 4, BUT:
?? > Do not connect both power sources (12V and 5V on pin 4)
?? > Small batteries (say 3 AAA size for 4.5V) between? pins 4 (+) & 5 (Gnd) should work just fine as power for programming.
?? > Do not allow the computer pin 4 (RS232 levels) to connect to pin 4.
????? Best to make a 3 or 4 wire cable specifically for this purpose

GPS to MT8K
? ? GPS Pin ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? MT8K Pin DE9M (already soldered on according to post)
??? 3???? Tx ???????????????????????????????????????? Rx ?? 2??? Note the 10k resistor on the schematic
??? 4???? Power (5V in)??????????????????????? 5V ?? 4 ????
??? 5???? Gnd ????????????????????????????????????? Gnd? 5

NOTE:
??? 2???? Rx ??????????????????????????????????????? Tx ??? 3???? not used since the MT8K doesn't send anything to the GPS

Is this what you were looking for?
Robert Giuliano
KB8RCO

On Friday, March 24, 2023 at 05:41:42 PM EDT, Stephen Grob via groups.io <sgrob@...> wrote:

Thank you Allen. I downloaded the manual, read it through and loaded the configuration software on my Windows 11 PC.
I have a GPS module that I think will work with the 8000FA and several male and female DB9 connectors that I can use to make the programming cable. I'm assuming the GPS module connects to the 8000FA with a DB9 also. There is a male DB9 soldered to the contacts on the 8000FA already. There are wires connected to the 12VDC block on the 8000FA with Anderson Power Poles on the other end to connect to a 11.1V 3S LiPo battery.
?Can you please give me information on how to make a programming cable with a female DB9 on the 8000FA end and a USB A on the PC end.
I also need info on the female DB9 pinouts for connecting the GPS module to the 8000FA.
This is a lot to ask for. I thank you for any info you can give me.

73,
Steve
KD9AER

Re: New TinyTrak Group Member 8000FA Questions.

#1767

Rob,

Thanks for jumping in there! I keep odd hours and I am not always around. Steve, Rob is right on everything. To directly address your question about connecting the MT-8000 FA to a USB-A connection, there is an issue. The MT-8000 FA only understand "true" serial for configuration, so unless you have a USB-to-serial ( Not TTL) converter in your cable, it won't work.

The easiest way to program it is to use a Byonics USB-TT3 cable. ( Its only $20.00 from Byonics) This will allow connection to your PC with Win10 and ( maybe) WIN11 ( The work of the devil) and will convert USB to serial, plus provide the low voltage for the PIC on the MT-8000 FA for programming without having to involve the high (10 Watt) amplifier. Connecting your USB Ports to high power RF emitters can occasionally cause problems...like turning off your USB Ports....if the device transmits at full power.?

In the dark days before USB, the programming cable was a "standard" serial cable with null modem, gender-changing adapter. (They had to get rid of those because they were politically incorrect) If you have a PC with a DB-9 serial connector on it, you can use the cable as above and as Rob described. These cables sadly don't provide the low voltage power supply feature that is used on the Byonics programming cable by virtue of scavenging power from the USB port. If you buy the Byonics programming cable, make sure to download the Prolifics USB drivers for it from the Byonics webpage.?

Speaking of Serial...the MT-8000 FA can use a GPS that has standard 4800 or 9600 Baud NMEA output, and can power those GPS receivers that can run on +5 VDC, through the DB-9 connector. If you have a new GPS that has multiple modes ( GLONASS, etc.) unless you can turn off all but the NMEA sentences, your receiver won't work. Its an APRS thing. Also, if you have a GPS that operates below 5 Volts, there is a chance that it's levels will not work with the MT-8000 FA. ( Note that the MT-8000 FA CAN be used with TTL receivers of sufficient output if you select that option in configuration) Byonics has NMEA, 4800 Baud GPS receivers available both as plug and play "hockey puck" style devices, and as OEM ()Board level) receivers with integrated antennas. These are available in both standard and high altitude versions ( >60K feet to 85KM altitude)?

73,

Allen AF6OF

Show quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Giuliano via groups.io <kb8rco@...>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Sent: Fri, Mar 24, 2023 6:49 pm
Subject: Re: [TinyTrak] New TinyTrak Group Member 8000FA Questions.

I didn't see a response from Byonics, so I'll give some feedback.

The MT8k connector is designed to connect to a GPS, so has the same pinout as the computer.

You will need to cross pins 2 and 3 for the 2 devices to communicate.

Since you already commented on the 12V power, the connection from the computer to the MT8k would be:

? ??PC Pin DE9F ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? MT8K Pin DE9M (already soldered on according to post)

??? 2???? Rx ??????????????????????????????????????? Tx ??? 3

??? 3???? Tx ???????????????????????????????????????? Rx ?? 2??? Note the 10k resistor on the schematic

??? 4???? Pin 6 (same connector) ??????? 5V (only if 12V is not applied on the other connection)

??? 5???? Gnd ????????????????????????????????????? Gnd? 5

The short between pis 4 and 6 on the computer side may not be requires, but won't cause problems

If you only want to power the MT8k micro (and not the amp), you could back feed 5V into pin 4, BUT:

?? > Do not connect both power sources (12V and 5V on pin 4)

?? > Small batteries (say 3 AAA size for 4.5V) between? pins 4 (+) & 5 (Gnd) should work just fine as power for programming.

?? > Do not allow the computer pin 4 (RS232 levels) to connect to pin 4.

????? Best to make a 3 or 4 wire cable specifically for this purpose

GPS to MT8K

? ? GPS Pin ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? MT8K Pin DE9M (already soldered on according to post)

??? 3???? Tx ???????????????????????????????????????? Rx ?? 2??? Note the 10k resistor on the schematic

??? 4???? Power (5V in)??????????????????????? 5V ?? 4 ????

??? 5???? Gnd ????????????????????????????????????? Gnd? 5

NOTE:

??? 2???? Rx ??????????????????????????????????????? Tx ??? 3???? not used since the MT8K doesn't send anything to the GPS

Is this what you were looking for?

Robert Giuliano
KB8RCO

On Friday, March 24, 2023 at 05:41:42 PM EDT, Stephen Grob via groups.io <sgrob@...> wrote:

Thank you Allen. I downloaded the manual, read it through and loaded the configuration software on my Windows 11 PC.
I have a GPS module that I think will work with the 8000FA and several male and female DB9 connectors that I can use to make the programming cable. I'm assuming the GPS module connects to the 8000FA with a DB9 also. There is a male DB9 soldered to the contacts on the 8000FA already. There are wires connected to the 12VDC block on the 8000FA with Anderson Power Poles on the other end to connect to a 11.1V 3S LiPo battery.
?Can you please give me information on how to make a programming cable with a female DB9 on the 8000FA end and a USB A on the PC end.
I also need info on the female DB9 pinouts for connecting the GPS module to the 8000FA.
This is a lot to ask for. I thank you for any info you can give me.

73,
Steve
KD9AER

Re: New TinyTrak Group Member 8000FA Questions.

#1766

开云体育

Rob,?

?Yes, that is exactly what I’m looking for. Thank you - this helps a lot. But I do have a couple of questions.

1. You say that pins 2 and 3 must be crossed on the programming cable and I understand that. But on both the PC pins and the MT8k pins you have pin 2 as Rx and pin 3 as Tx. ?Should it instead be pin 2 Rx and pin 3 Tx on the PC side and Pin 2 Tx and Pin 3 Rx on the MT8k side??

2. After soldering up the described cable with DB-9 connectors I will still need to connect to a USB-A on the PC. Does it make any difference if I use a serial to USB adapter with FTDI chip or a Prolific chip?

Thanks again for your help.

73

Steve

KD9AER

Show quoted text

On Mar 24, 2023, at 8:49 PM, Rob Giuliano via groups.io <kb8rco@...> wrote:

I didn't see a response from Byonics, so I'll give some feedback.
The MT8k connector is designed to connect to a GPS, so has the same pinout as the computer.
You will need to cross pins 2 and 3 for the 2 devices to communicate.

Since you already commented on the 12V power, the connection from the computer to the MT8k would be:
? ??PC Pin DE9F ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? MT8K Pin DE9M (already soldered on according to post)
??? 2???? Rx ??????????????????????????????????????? Tx ??? 3
??? 3???? Tx ???????????????????????????????????????? Rx ?? 2??? Note the 10k resistor on the schematic
??? 4???? Pin 6 (same connector) ??????? 5V (only if 12V is not applied on the other connection)
??? 5???? Gnd ????????????????????????????????????? Gnd? 5
The short between pis 4 and 6 on the computer side may not be requires, but won't cause problems

If you only want to power the MT8k micro (and not the amp), you could back feed 5V into pin 4, BUT:
?? > Do not connect both power sources (12V and 5V on pin 4)
?? > Small batteries (say 3 AAA size for 4.5V) between? pins 4 (+) & 5 (Gnd) should work just fine as power for programming.
?? > Do not allow the computer pin 4 (RS232 levels) to connect to pin 4.
????? Best to make a 3 or 4 wire cable specifically for this purpose

GPS to MT8K
? ? GPS Pin ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? MT8K Pin DE9M (already soldered on according to post)
??? 3???? Tx ???????????????????????????????????????? Rx ?? 2??? Note the 10k resistor on the schematic
??? 4???? Power (5V in)??????????????????????? 5V ?? 4 ????
??? 5???? Gnd ????????????????????????????????????? Gnd? 5

NOTE:
??? 2???? Rx ??????????????????????????????????????? Tx ??? 3???? not used since the MT8K doesn't send anything to the GPS

Is this what you were looking for?
Robert Giuliano
KB8RCO

On Friday, March 24, 2023 at 05:41:42 PM EDT, Stephen Grob via groups.io <sgrob@...> wrote:

Thank you Allen. I downloaded the manual, read it through and loaded the configuration software on my Windows 11 PC.
I have a GPS module that I think will work with the 8000FA and several male and female DB9 connectors that I can use to make the programming cable. I'm assuming the GPS module connects to the 8000FA with a DB9 also. There is a male DB9 soldered to the contacts on the 8000FA already. There are wires connected to the 12VDC block on the 8000FA with Anderson Power Poles on the other end to connect to a 11.1V 3S LiPo battery.
?Can you please give me information on how to make a programming cable with a female DB9 on the 8000FA end and a USB A on the PC end.
I also need info on the female DB9 pinouts for connecting the GPS module to the 8000FA.
This is a lot to ask for. I thank you for any info you can give me.

73,
Steve
KD9AER

Re: New TinyTrak Group Member 8000FA Questions.

#1765