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Crissy wrote:

Anyway, as you can see, I have not left the list. I feel, for the most
part,
that I am among kindred spirits and that is a great place to be.

==========================

I am happy, Crissy, to hear this.

<smile>

Have fun!

Janelle

In a message dated 7/26/99 Nori writes:
I am in awe...

It suddenly dawned on me that after "consciously practicing" reaching for

the thought that feels good and or pivoting--it is now happening like second
nature...well--um..make that "first nature."
Yes, that's it, first nature--uncovered, released and freed so that it, "I,"
may soar!
>Thank you jdc family for your love, energy and presence in my life!
>all Is well >Love,Nori

In a message dated 7/26/99 1:08:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

vilik@... writes:
<< Oh Nori....
Truly delicious and inspiring. I am right behind you, sisterlove,
careful I
don't tread on your heels!
~^^V^^~

~~~~~~~~~~funny...I FEEL YOU right here next to me...

it feels good!

Love,Nori
ps~ the only thing that treads on my heels~ is a wayward grocery cart in Farm
Fresh:)

In a message dated 7/26/99 12:31:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
BallOLight@... writes:

<< Anyway, as you can see, I have not left the list. I feel, for the most
part,
that I am among kindred spirits and that is a great place to be. >>

Crissy ...you are in for a surprise. The list goes in waves and in various
angles...
one day it sways in one direction to help and get in vibrational harmony with
one group of learning (note that I did not say people) and the next day, it
swings in another direction. As diverse as we are, there is one thing we all
have in common and that is to be UNCOMMON!!!!!! <g>

Welcome to the Abe list!
"boo"

Paul wrote:

It seems to me that this assertion (that puking isn't ever PLAN A)
places a
remarkable amount of strain on someone who's got some badass mushrooms
floating around in ocean of mind, and is trying to splish splash in a
new
age tub, imo. Puking is considered bad form somehow...if only you could

think about what you want, and not what you don't want, you wouldn't
have
to puke your way through this experience and remind us all of what we'd
rather not remember.

Anyone help a bruddah out here?

Hi Paul,
Maybe, some are sicker than others. Maybe not everyone has gone to the
depths
that I have. Maybe some people have not fed the monsters for years and
so they
die easier. Maybe what Abe says is true, and we don't have to face the
monsters.
I can't say because I have faced the monsters and I can't go back and do
it the
other way. Maybe there is an easier softer way.
I know there is a big difference between looking at what I don't want
and dealing
with it.
My intellect wants to figure it out, but for me, the answer is not in my
intellect
it comes from a new idea, a bigger view.
So, just because my experience is different doesn't make someone else's
wrong.
You know, I don't know, and that's ok today. I can't figure it all out
and THank
God I don't have to.

I found a new writer, new for me, last week and just wanted to post
a couple of things that hit me this morning.
By the way, his name is Vernon Howard
Live above the opposites.
How true are you to yourself? That is the degree of your contentment.
Love
and yes I mean Love--love allows All--it's all love
Nancy

Hello dear ones,

It is my pleasure to announce a beautiful new face to the Faces Page, Laurel Sanger!

Click it over to:





in love,
david.

In a message dated 7/26/99 12:31:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
BallOLight@... writes:

<< Anyway, as you can see, I have not left the list. I feel, for the most
part,
that I am among kindred spirits and that is a great place to be.

Crissy

>>
:) Crissy

Abe says there is no exclusion...I find it comfortable knowing there are no
"sides."
In being uplifted, you have indeed uplifted me...so glad you hung around!

All is truly well...
Nori

~~~
I am in awe...

It suddenly dawned on me that after "consciously practicing" reaching for
the thought that feels good and or pivoting--it is now happening like second
nature...well--um..make that "first nature."
Yes, that's it, first nature--uncovered, released and freed so that it, "I,"
may soar!

Thank you jdc family for your love, energy and presence in my life!

all Is well
Love,
Nori

Beloved Ones,

A week or so ago, I posted a message saying that I was unsubscribing to the
list. Many of you responded with warm and thoughtful letters. I have been
wanting to say that I greatly appreciate those posts (and private emails) but
for some reason I have been reluctant to do so. I think part of the reason
for my hesitation is because I didn't want it to seem like there were "sides"
to be on and some were 'siding' with me.

But, I do want to acknowledge those who took the time to write. Your words
served the purpose of lifting me up and letting me experience the higher
vibration of the magnificent people on this list. I thank you for the joy
that brings.

I also include here, in the magnificent people I thank and appreciate, those
who offered a different opinion than mine. It was nice not to be attacked as
happens on some lists. It was nice to be elevated by sincere feelings and
not engaged in a war of egos. I loved that.

Anyway, as you can see, I have not left the list. I feel, for the most part,
that I am among kindred spirits and that is a great place to be.

Crissy

AJ wrote:

From: "AJ" <family@...>

Shalom,
Since Juls posted her response to my pem to her about her business, I thought it informative if all
of you got to read my first response.

Hiya's! I never saw Jul's response to Ron that was posted, and this
morning I had a fellow list person ask me to let her know how many list
messages I got today since she seemed to be missing some. Looks like I
am too! Unless what Ron is responding to comes through later, I'll let
you know if it does.

Anyone else out there seeing people respond to messages they never
received, or other such funny goings on???

Cia

Hi, friends,

Yesterday I gave a talk at my church on the Heartmath ideas on
pivoting from being in your head and experiencing negative
emotions, to choosing to go into your heart to access your
intuition and core heart emotions like love, caring and
appreciation.

My focus for the talk was based on this provocative statement:

"At Heartmath, we foresee that the next major step in the
evolution of the human species will necessitate the development
of a higher degree of emotional management than we've ever
experienced."

Doc Childre and Howard Martin. The Heartmath Solution, NY,
HarperCollins, 1999. P. 144

I can really see Abe in that idea - that the leading edge of
thought is in listening to your emotions, and learning to manage
them. I created a table that specifically addresses the
difference between repressing emotions and managing them.

I made up a three page handout for that talk. It's saved as a
Word 6.0 file, and is able to be read by any later Word.

If you would like to receive a copy of the notes, please send me
a note private email.

Love and hugs,

Connee

--
Come visit my site:

Hi Ro,
I didn't think I had posted to this list yet. How did you know I was
here? Maybe in my flurry of replies to the other list I have replied to
one here without knowing. If so, to all other members I apologise for
not
introducing myself. I am Jill from New Zealand. I am an active member
of the Conversations With God list, and have just recently subscribed
here out of curiosity. I don't know how active I will get here, as
coping with 100-200 emails a day can be quite daunting - wonderful on no
work days like today, but on others ???
Will just ride along and see how it goes.

Lovingly,
Jill

Ro wrote:

From: "Ro" <ro@...>

Hi, my name is Ro, new to the list. Hi Jill and ireena...wave wave :)

Anyone

else I know? :)

Hi Ron,

We're talking about the same thing, basically. When I asked for help with
this, it was to get this kind of feedback, so thank you and you know that I
have a very deep respect and love for you too.

Anyway, what I am attempting to do is to formulate a way to incorporate the
ideals, methodology and feeling of the Sudbury school in to a business
format, where all people on staff, all of the dogs, and all of the clients
have an equal say in the running of the business, if they want to be
involved. Just like at the Sudbury school they have community meetings at
10 am on Tuesdays so would we maybe not at that precise time but we would
have weekly community meetings where everyone gets a vote and the majority
rules. We will also have a judiciary committee, the members picked by
lottery to serve 3 months terms, to deal with any complaints,
confrontations, and problems that arise, so it's not an HR decision or a
management decision but a group decision. The hiring and firing would
happen here too and those fired will be able to come back and argue their
case for re-hire in 3-6 months. For our original staff training period and
probably throughout, we are arranging to have dogs that are waiting for
adoption with the local canine rescue leagues to be our guinea pigs, our
training dogs. The dogs will pick their handler and the handler will be
charged with the task of first finding out what they know and what they
don't know, then finding out what they are good at, is it playing with the
dogs, teaching the dogs, do they prefer working in the coffee house, being
at the front desk, working in the office, cooking, grounds maintenance,
whatever the final list of available jobs are is what they can choose from,
or to choose a variety of jobs that they want to do and will do regularly.
Once they have got an idea about where they want to be and what they want to
do- instead of us finding bodies to fit in to roles which is the traditional
way- then each of them, regardless of their chosen role, will be charged
with the task of teaching their dog specific skills, suited to the dog, in
their own way, using positive reinforcement methods only and they will have
a week to do them. I don't care if they work in groups or read the
available books, or devise their own methods, they will able to post
questions, requests for help or group sessions, etc like at Sudbury to
complete this task and then on Wednesday morning of the next week we will
all gather and see what they've discovered. BY this time they will know if
this is the place they want to be, they will have bonded with the dogs or
not and will have gotten trained themselves in how this is all going to
work. They will also grade themselves on their progress, sign in on sign up
sheets- no time clocks- and it will be open to anyone who wants to work
there to work there in the environment that we establish and want to
establish, no interviews, no resumes- other than for the licensed positions,
but even they will have to be voted in by the larger group and ALL of us
will do this exercise to learn the program. The next week will be a time
when you can request to be certified on the various equipment, espresso
machine, agility equipment, computers, retail, inventory, driving the vans,
etc, ALL of us will have to be certified before we can use the equipment,
and we'll have to bring in specialists in each field to at least train a
handful so that they can teach the others. The final week of training will
be to concentrate in your major fields of interest, developing policies,
rules, etc.

Each person will be responsible for establishing and adhering to their own
schedule, we will figure out how many people are needed for what, when and
they can fill in the rest, so carpooling, class schedules, days off are all
handled by each person. Since we are all making our schedules for 3 months
at a time, probably 1 month at first until we discover our true needs, then
we will be more likely to adhere to them, sick days, vacation days, mental
health days, doctor appointments, home emergencies, will all be each
individuals responsibility to find a replacement for them and to return the
favor at some future date, if they are late 3 times in that 3 month period
they will go before the judiciary committee. If you have someone else sign
you in and you aren't there, then you go directly before the judiciary
committee, we will be building an honour system very quickly.

As for salaries we will have a base salary for the number of hours worked a
week, if you're full time you get $12 an hour, part timers get $10 an hour,
the office and vet staff will have their own base salaries. When I worked
at Starbuck's we divided the tips by the number of hours you worked a week
or in a time period, that made sense and no one quibbled, so I am going to
divide the portion of the profit dedicated to staff bonuses in the same way,
especially since they will be making their own schedules.

Just as with the equipment certification in order to teach classes you will
have to be certified as well, you can practice all you want on the day care
dogs and rescue dogs and so can learn at your own pace in your own way. The
bulletin board will always be up, deals will be made between people to learn
and explore new things, outside help will be brought in- by them, paid for
by the farm, videos, books, whatever they need we will get for them if and
when they request it.

As for access, those who want keys can have them to their various chosen
areas, if they get a brainstorm at 3 am on a training problem with a
boarding dog they can come in and work with them if the dogs want to play
too.

If a group wants to start a band to play at the coffee house we'll set up a
practice area and when they're ready give them a go, if they want to start a
photo lab we'll work with them to get that as well, they can present it at
the community meeting and see if it flies or not.

Unlike most places I worked, the staff will be welcome to come to the farm
at any time they choose, not just working days, if they come to work with a
dog, they can put it on their time sheet if they choose to, or to clean up
the retail area, do office work, whatever they want to get done outside of
their schedule.

That's how much I've figure out so far. When they are working they will
have to be in uniform- t-shirt, golf shirt, sweat shirt, shorts, running
pants, rain gear, cold weather gear and tennis shoes, basically, with our
staff logo on it- but other than that it's pretty much up to them.

As the CEO type it will be my responsibility to make sure it's all running
well, I'll be the point person with the investors and county etc, but I
think we will create a very nice community of eager, happy, fulfilled and
satisfied people. They will also be able to choose an alternative job on
those days when they've had enough fur, office stuff, general maintenance,
ground maintenance, washing the vans, menial but good thinking thru type
work. We'll also pick maintenance crews by lottery for general clean up
stuff as well to cut costs and engender a personal responsibility for the
facility at large, probably with a slight increase in pay during the time
served, like weekly. They will elect clerks or whatever we decide to call
them to fulfill any required specific roles as well.

Like I said, I don't have it all figured out yet, but that's where I am so
far. I don't have 15 years to develop a crew to serve clients but if they
each choose their favorite area to work on and then expand from there,
eventually we will have a well crossed trained group and geniuses in each
area.

Any comments? Suggestions, things I'm missing?

LOVE YA- Juls



From: "Ron" <family@...>

Shalom,
First, before I respond to your post, hear me loud and clear, YOU are
important to me. I have a
great deal of love and respect for you. If I did not my wanting would not
be to engage you in this
conversation. I have known from the past that you have started this baby
with a strong desire to
help the animals and at the same time earn much money. That process is
really a good one, to do
what you love to do is truly the only way to make lots of money and is an
axiom of life.
However, when you brought up the Sudbury school, I felt that you may not
have realized what you
were really seeking or asking. I in no way wanted to imply that you should
not want to pay back
your debt. What I was saying was that in my scenario, your debt would be
shared by everyone, and be
paid back before anyone got a return on the vision. Profit only happens
when obligations are met.
I was talking more about a head set, a mind set, call it whatever you like,
but I was not talking
about actually making money. That's a great thing to do. Rather I was
speaking about a perspective
on motivating, on how people react to working together, as employee&#92;employer
or owner to owner.
From what you explained to me about Sudbury, the participants really share
in the vision from top to
bottom. However, when you were describing your vision it was clearly a
business venture with a top
and bottom and rules in between. I was not talking of a sixties commune,
many of them have not
worked. However, I'm talking more of a new mind set a vision where those
who share the vision can
produce together each doing their own part with total sharing of the
results.
Unless you want to, why should you keep all the risks? At the same time,
why do you feel it's
important for you to own your vision? I'm making an attempt to help you
probe your own thoughts and
feelings about this really great vision you are working out so well. You
invoked this from me, so
I'm probing deeper in side you. You mention no competition, well that's
exactly what I'm trying to
show you. Competition happens when levels of groups of people exists and
they strive to climb to
the next higher level, leaving others behind.
Competition can also be healthy, it's really all based on your wanting and
what you construct. To
compare your business approach to the Sudbury, for me would require a major
rethink of your project
and that's what I was trying to help you see. I was not putting a value on
the Sudbury system or
the business model, you with your request, I felt was doing that. Your
business model can work
great and you can find all sorts of ways to motivate your employees. I did
not realize you were
thinking 250 to 700 employees to start. That's really a large amount of
people. The business
approach maybe the only one you can take. Perhaps, the employees can be
divided into groups,
wherein some are actually participants in the business, offering whatever
they could, (Sudbury),
while others are the typical employees that you design special motivational
plans to guide them on
their personal growth path. From my experience with employees, no matter
what, in the end money
counts. It is possible to keep employees happy with positive motivational
techniques, but the money
still needs to keep coming. It is on this level that competition becomes
most important. You will
find that employees to compete for their supervisors attention, over
specific animals to care for,
and all sorts of things, and they will do this much of the time hoping to
more up the ladder or
somehow get more money.
Anyway the full scope of what you are doing, your business, is way beyond
the confines of these
posts. My advice to you is to follow the directions of your paid advisors,
get the business up and
running and producing a profit. Once there you can begin to experiment with
the myriad of ways to
motivate your employees. The mere fact that you will be offering them a job
in a field they really
desire will have a huge motivational impact. I thank you for sharing your
ups and downs along this
path, it's good to see your vision in action.
I pemed this to you because I really didn't think it was proper for the
list, but what the heck, so
I have continued it here, it is fine by me. There is much love for you
here.
Love, Light, & Joy
Ron

I couldn't resist. Actually i didn't want to resist
Love Nancy

Shalom,
First, before I respond to your post, hear me loud and clear, YOU are important to me. I have a
great deal of love and respect for you. If I did not my wanting would not be to engage you in this
conversation. I have known from the past that you have started this baby with a strong desire to
help the animals and at the same time earn much money. That process is really a good one, to do
what you love to do is truly the only way to make lots of money and is an axiom of life.
However, when you brought up the Sudbury school, I felt that you may not have realized what you
were really seeking or asking. I in no way wanted to imply that you should not want to pay back
your debt. What I was saying was that in my scenario, your debt would be shared by everyone, and be
paid back before anyone got a return on the vision. Profit only happens when obligations are met.
I was talking more about a head set, a mind set, call it whatever you like, but I was not talking
about actually making money. That's a great thing to do. Rather I was speaking about a perspective
on motivating, on how people react to working together, as employee&#92;employer or owner to owner.
From what you explained to me about Sudbury, the participants really share in the vision from top to
bottom. However, when you were describing your vision it was clearly a business venture with a top
and bottom and rules in between. I was not talking of a sixties commune, many of them have not
worked. However, I'm talking more of a new mind set a vision where those who share the vision can
produce together each doing their own part with total sharing of the results.
Unless you want to, why should you keep all the risks? At the same time, why do you feel it's
important for you to own your vision? I'm making an attempt to help you probe your own thoughts and
feelings about this really great vision you are working out so well. You invoked this from me, so
I'm probing deeper in side you. You mention no competition, well that's exactly what I'm trying to
show you. Competition happens when levels of groups of people exists and they strive to climb to
the next higher level, leaving others behind.
Competition can also be healthy, it's really all based on your wanting and what you construct. To
compare your business approach to the Sudbury, for me would require a major rethink of your project
and that's what I was trying to help you see. I was not putting a value on the Sudbury system or
the business model, you with your request, I felt was doing that. Your business model can work
great and you can find all sorts of ways to motivate your employees. I did not realize you were
thinking 250 to 700 employees to start. That's really a large amount of people. The business
approach maybe the only one you can take. Perhaps, the employees can be divided into groups,
wherein some are actually participants in the business, offering whatever they could, (Sudbury),
while others are the typical employees that you design special motivational plans to guide them on
their personal growth path. From my experience with employees, no matter what, in the end money
counts. It is possible to keep employees happy with positive motivational techniques, but the money
still needs to keep coming. It is on this level that competition becomes most important. You will
find that employees to compete for their supervisors attention, over specific animals to care for,
and all sorts of things, and they will do this much of the time hoping to more up the ladder or
somehow get more money.
Anyway the full scope of what you are doing, your business, is way beyond the confines of these
posts. My advice to you is to follow the directions of your paid advisors, get the business up and
running and producing a profit. Once there you can begin to experiment with the myriad of ways to
motivate your employees. The mere fact that you will be offering them a job in a field they really
desire will have a huge motivational impact. I thank you for sharing your ups and downs along this
path, it's good to see your vision in action.
I pemed this to you because I really didn't think it was proper for the list, but what the heck, so
I have continued it here, it is fine by me. There is much love for you here.
Love, Light, & Joy
Ron

Huh? Ron, I'm sorry but I'm very confused here, I seem to have somehow
offended you and that's not my intent. Again I didn't post this to the
list, or at least if I did, I didn't get it, nor did I intend to send it to
the list, it was a PEM and that's how I answered to you.

If I borrow, thru investors and other means, $12 million dollars to buy a
property, build buildings, do all of the permits required, hire staff, put
in some major high tech facilities and tools, I better make some serious
money or I'm going to be in some serious trouble. I already have a $12
million dollar life insurance policy to set against the future capital
raise, along with signing my future income away to cover any outstanding
debt if I mis-manage the facility. So, yes, repaying my investors along with
the interest promised IS a considering and motivating factor for me. I will
also have between 250-750 employees or staff members, plus the management
team and taxes on several items, plus inventory and since all of these cost
money, I better be able to pay them on time and the appropriate amounts.
Granted, I could probably pull off allowing the Universe to deliver all of
these things to me without cost, but the ulcer potential isn't worth it to
me, I'm not there yet in my belief system where I could run a major business
without cash flow. It's possible, but I'm not there yet.

I will understand the Sudbury School more fully once I visit it in a couple
of weeks, but at this point, my understanding of it is that it is a pure
democracy, based on a modified version of Socratic teaching methods. It's
true that they have no budget to speak of, their teachers receive almost no
pay for their efforts and they are there to establish a new model for
educating successive generations. They teach self reliance, personal
responsibility, cooperation and community, thru their example. The kids are
left alone, they are offered nothing other than what they see the other kids
doing, what their parents expect of them, what they need to do in order to
fulfill their dreams and the only help offered is that, that is asked for by
the kids themselves. And it works Great, from what their promo book says.

The part I like best is the ideology behind it all. I don't need to make
The Farm a commune in order to develop the same feeling behind it and same
atmosphere at the facility. There is a way to meld the two worlds, have the
best of the ideals of the 60's meld in with a business of the 21st Century.
I'm not really sure what a commune or Freedom community is like, since I've
never been to one, but keeping an eye to profits and meeting my
responsibilities doesn't make this venture less spiritual in my mind, making
lots of money does make it less than a pure commune environment, it will in
fact allow us to do a LOT more than we would be able to if we did establish
it as a pure freedom community. I also think we would have to go Much
further out than I already am- in to the country side- in order to get the
county approval we would need to build a community that I think you're
suggesting.

Will I be hoarding all of the cash to myself, Of Course NOT, I'll be paid
last. To a large extent all of the profits will be shared by the whole, but
a percentage will also be funneled in to the All Life Matters Foundation to
assist canine rescue organizations, to offset medical expenses and to
provide service dogs- trained using positive methods only- to those that
require and want them, along with other things as they come along.Will all
of the profits be funneled back to the people involved, nope, but a
significant part of it will be.

I don't understand the issues that I am falling short on in your opinion. I
AM asking for help with this, I have support, I always have support to boost
me up and to keep me going, but I meant what I said when I said that I have
no clue what you're suggesting that I do. I have no experience of what you
are talking about and I would like to hear more, but the part that I'm
really confused about is why making money nullifies my intention to organize
the farm around the Sudbury School methodology. I mean they have done a
terrific job of working on a shoe string budget, but I don't see why that
makes it a light in a storm, living below the poverty level isn't a higher
calling, it's hard and promotes the struggle and hard work ethic that I've
been working diligently at to release so that I am Open to abundance in all
of it's form to flood in.

Ron, I deeply apologize if I have offended you, but please don't disregard
me because I don't know what you are talking about, I don't have your life
experiences to fall back on to have any reference to know what you are
referring to. But if instead you will be patient for a just a minute and
explain it to me, then we can be working from the same page and maybe make
some progress together. Please?

Love- Juls

Paul Roberts wrote:

OK...I listen VERY closely to teaching entities when they say sumpin that
isn't congruent with other stuff already on the big board in ocean of mind.
This is left brained, logical assertion Abe is making here...with hard
core belief content...and when a dolphin swallers ANY beliefs without
chewin and discernin with his or her own brain, there's the real
opportunity for signal distortion and a wee bit o metaphysical tummy ache.

So that's part of what I do...chew and discern.

And so when Abe says THIS deliberate creation gig is my DOMINANT intention,
my MAIN purpose, for being here in physical form, I get an immediate BUZZZZ
on my incoming bullshit detector...cause I know of a couple of other
dominant intentions I have as well...and not just me, either.

In fact, if I HAD to rank em (and happily I don't) of the big 3 dominant
intentions in MY reality, which are the purposes of learning NonDual
Awareness, Unconditional Love and Conscious Creation, I'd definitely put
Conscious Creation as number 3 on the list.

Ok, I gotta respond to this. Just a couple of points: From my viewpoint,
what you call 'NonDual Awareness', Abe would call Law of Allowing. i.e.
you take the duality (one end of the stick feels good, one doesn't) and
perhaps push against the end that doesn't feel good. And create more of
that. OR you allow both ends, and focus your attention on the one that
feels good, and create more of that. Unconditional love would probably
fall under the same heading.

Why? Cause I know about the Magickian's Error...the focusing on learning
how to consciously create reality while having a black and heartless
heart...an error made by those beings who focus on Abe's dominant intention
and somehow miss Christ's and Buddhas. A lotta great metaphysical
teachers, including Buddha and Christ both, have warned about that one.

And there HAVE been plenty of folks (and are today) who have used conscious
creation principles in attempts to create MORE at the cost of other folks
LESS.

This is the one that made me want to respond. Abe says there is an
endless stream of well-being. I haven't quite wrapped my knowing around
it yet, but there isn't a finite pie where if you have more I get less.
The pie just gets bigger and we can both have MORE.

For example, during the cold war, for example, the Soviets were

apparently very interested indeed in the military and strategic application
of paranormal phenomena and talents. For another example, surf over on the
net to any of the Black Magick / Satanic Rite sites...and there are scads
of em...and you begin to get a sense that this ain't exactly where you
might want your kiddies hangin out after a tough day at school.

At the end of the workshop I attended earlier this month in Seattle,
someone remarked that one could use this knowledge for destructive
creating, or something like that. (What we would term 'not good'). And
Abe agreed, but said 'remember you'll be right in the middle of it'.
It's all part of the contrast. You can push against those with 'black
hearts' and probably find lots more of it coming into your experience.
You get to choose. And then you get to be right in the middle of your
creation, just as they are in theirs.

I am complete.

Cia

Shalom,
Since Juls posted her response to my pem to her about her business, I thought it informative if all
of you got to read my first response.


Shalom Juls,

Reading what you have presented has motivated me to write once again, thanks. You seem to be
trying to merge two different philosophies of life. The Sudbury school values the life within each
individual, the freedom necessary to allow each person to grow at their our desired pace. That
concept is not mergible with the concept of business and ownership with employees. It is in this
dilemma that you see yourself. You cannot created a system different from your own wanting. I
understood that this project was what you wanted to create your own wealth, you were the owner of
it. That concept is powerful and can be full of powerful light giving energy. However the Sudbury
system is totally different.
Just how much ownership or how important is ownership of this project to you? How much money are
you really looking for, is money in fact your goal at this time? Can you envision this project
beyond yourself? Have you heard of the concept of intentional community? What you are describing
here is what this really is.
Intentional Community is a concept that is popular throughout the US and in most counties. The
concept of ownership changes to one of vision and you gather around you those who share the same
vision. Each person's contribution to this vision is uniquely theirs, and all contributors share
equally in the project. The person contributing the millions of dollars is doing so from their
wanting, just as the person that cleans up after the wonderful animals. Their is no individual
ownership, rather a collective unity with a desired goal, purpose and focus. Money is no longer the
G-d or powerful controlling force, but a tool that is used when necessary to obtain the goal. Are
you up to this? You are asking for a completely new mind set. The share value of this vision would
not be based on money but on commitment to the goal and personal talents that each one would bring
to the table. After the physical needs of the community were met, any profit would be shared
equally. True motivation to do other things to move on to different plateaus, would be based on
one's desire not the focus of money. People would live on the campus that is purchased for this
community.
You need to expand your mind set way beyond that which you have grown familiar. The Sudbury
concept is an attempt to do just that. I haven't gone into great detail about this, but I hope
enough to get your attention. I would share what I see, from what you have said so far, but I don't
want to corrupt your vision. If you desire my additional input send me a pem. family@.... My
personal goal has been to establish intentional community throughout the US and I have helped
several get off the ground. One by product of living in an intentional community is that it becomes
easy to get off the "grid". You become independent of goods and gov't we've all grown dependant
upon. You will need the courage to step out on a new path. However, it may well be that this type
of concept is not in your wanting and that's ok too.
Love, Light, & Joy
Ron

Shalom,
I agree with what you have been saying, I'm not against making money at all. I was describing a
different type of ownership, where everyone shares in the wealth. Where the goal is the care, the
project, the animals, but not just the money. The minute you put rules in place that set a higher
ladder progressive order to things, you begin to measure progress by some level of performance. The
owner/employee relationship is somewhat fixed in our society today. To begin to manifest the goals
of the Sudbury school paradigm you have to understand the motivational factors that make it work.
I'm certain ownership and position is not a major concern of theirs. If money is used as the reward
for a job well done and is what is earned for achievement then it will be most difficult to put into
place the Sudbury program.
I sorry you may have thought I was suggesting to make a new country cause I was not making light of
your request, I was being quite serious. I was expressing a way in which you could obtain what you
asked for in your posting. It seems like I was asking a lot, but it is really a matter of
perspective and I don't see that you understand the Sudbury system or what they are really teaching.
They are very alternative in their approach to education and social environment development and I
thought perhaps you were also thinking on those lines. Since you are clearly not going in that
direction, deal with all your lawyers, accountants and such and enjoy what you have created, I'm
sure it will be truly a great thing and bring you lots of money and maybe then once it's established
you will begin to see another way or maybe not. The Sudbury thing is just not you present focus,
rather a spark in the night.
It doesn't sound like you really seek help rather just seeking support for what you are currently
doing or ways to follow your current path with least resistance. This of course is practical, and
the way for you to get the job done. Stay focused on your plan of action and don't get derailed by
any other concepts that interfere with the energy you have already started.
Your first sentence really told me the story, you don't understand what I was saying and that's ok.
I was not talking about what you have written. You explained in your prior post that you didn't
want the same employer&#92;employee relationship, that you wanted to motivate your staff in different
ways. I was suggesting one such way. A place in which all participants are owners and share in the
vision and dream. However, this dream is still too close to you, and you clearly retain title to it
so this would not be the type of organization you would want to establish.


You said, "It's time for some new ideas, The Farm is one of them, the way we treat the
staff is another, and how we will run the business is another. I believe
that when it's all brought together it will be Truly Magnificent, which is
my main intention anyway.

Why can't we work as a community and still make loads of cash and succeed as
a business? I don't understand, it may have been called something else in
the past, but why does it have to remain so?"

I was not talking of "old ideas or old ways", and I agree with you and what you say I can only
support and hope the best for you. I was not saying you can't make lots of money. And I was
talking about community. You were being specific about a Sudbury system and went into great
extended detail about their system. To try to run a business with your ideals about how to handle
the employees and such, I frankly don't believe is new. To be motivated by the dollar is not new,
no matter how you disguise your motivational plan. The Sudbury system does not motivate by the
dollar, but uses the dollar to promote their goals and vision. That is what I thought you were
trying to emulate. Competition will cease when people learn that there is nothing to be gained by
besting another person, that true growth and achievement is obtained by seeing the good in all
people and crating a pathway in which all this good can be individually expressed. We may not be
all created equal, but we can all equally create. I seek to foster this environment, where
creation, deliberate creation continues and we all perceive that we are all getting what our desires
and visions have longed for so long.
Love, Light, & Joy
Ron

<snip> The chaos edge is

where the KNOWING stops and the LEARNING begins...<snip>

~~~~~~~~~~
How about where KNOWING actually begins and LEARNING takes off like a bat
outa heaven...

~^^V^^~

We are ALL so much more than. Why limit ourselves?

In loving Service to ATI, Trixi-

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