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7623A vertical signal output

mike zias / W3JRR All Messages By This Member #16891 I am using the vertical signal output (back panel) on a 7623A. ?It seems to have a 2:1 attenuator. ?I am measuring the output with a 1 meg input on another scope and find I get 1/2 the signal going into the 7623A vertical input. ?I haven't seen this specified in? the online manual I use. ?This won't be a problem as long as it does it for all the inputs I select on the vertical plug-in. ?I will use Ch1, Ch1, and Add. Is this attenuation normal and specified? ?
John Gord All Messages By This Member #16892 Mike, On the similar 7603A, the VERT SIG OUT is specified as 0.5V per division of deflection into 1MEG, 25mV per division of deflection into 50 ohms. --John Gord toggle quoted message Show quoted text On Sun, May 12, 2024 at 11:06 AM, mike zias / W3JRR wrote: I am using the vertical signal output (back panel) on a 7623A. ?It seems to have a 2:1 attenuator. ?I am measuring the output with a 1 meg input on another scope and find I get 1/2 the signal going into the 7623A vertical input. ?I haven't seen this specified in? the online manual I use. ?This won't be a problem as long as it does it for all the inputs I select on the vertical plug-in. ?I will use Ch1, Ch1, and Add. Is this attenuation normal and specified? ?
mike zias / W3JRR All Messages By This Member #16893 Hello John, I don't understand that specification. ?What division is being referenced? ?However, somehow that spec. must translate to the division I am seeing. ? On Sunday, May 12, 2024, 06:23:42 PM EDT, John Gord via groups.io <johngord@...> wrote: Mike, On the similar 7603A, the VERT SIG OUT is specified as 0.5V per division of deflection into 1MEG, 25mV per division of deflection into 50 ohms. --John Gord toggle quoted message Show quoted text On Sun, May 12, 2024 at 11:06 AM, mike zias / W3JRR wrote: I am using the vertical signal output (back panel) on a 7623A. ?It seems to have a 2:1 attenuator. ?I am measuring the output with a 1 meg input on another scope and find I get 1/2 the signal going into the 7623A vertical input. ?I haven't seen this specified in? the online manual I use. ?This won't be a problem as long as it does it for all the inputs I select on the vertical plug-in. ?I will use Ch1, Ch1, and Add. Is this attenuation normal and specified? ?
John Gord All Messages By This Member #16894 Mike, The screen is divided into 8 vertical divisions.? A full scale (8 division) peak-to-peak waveform on the screen should generate a 4 volt peak-to-peak signal at the VERT SIG OUT jack. --John toggle quoted message Show quoted text On Sun, May 12, 2024 at 04:48 PM, mike zias / W3JRR wrote: ? Hello John, I don't understand that specification. ?What division is being referenced? ?However, somehow that spec. must translate to the division I am seeing. ? ? On Sunday, May 12, 2024, 06:23:42 PM EDT, John Gord via groups.io <johngord@...> wrote: ? ? Mike, On the similar 7603A, the VERT SIG OUT is specified as 0.5V per division of deflection into 1MEG, 25mV per division of deflection into 50 ohms. --John Gord On Sun, May 12, 2024 at 11:06 AM, mike zias / W3JRR wrote: I am using the vertical signal output (back panel) on a 7623A. ?It seems to have a 2:1 attenuator. ?I am measuring the output with a 1 meg input on another scope and find I get 1/2 the signal going into the 7623A vertical input. ?I haven't seen this specified in? the online manual I use. ?This won't be a problem as long as it does it for all the inputs I select on the vertical plug-in. ?I will use Ch1, Ch1, and Add. Is this attenuation normal and specified? ?
mike zias / W3JRR All Messages By This Member #16895 John, thank you - that makes sense.? Too bad Tek didn't give this feature in later scopes. mz
Froggie the Gremlin All Messages By This Member #16896 7904, 7104 and many other mainframe 7000 Tektronix scopes have the vertical signals out, some on front panel some on rear. Need the 50 Ohm term for specified bandwidth Jon
mike zias / W3JRR All Messages By This Member #16897 Hello Jon, ? I don't need Full BW so I use the 1 meg input.?? Just to be sure I have this straight: ? ?Using another scope to view Vert.Sig.Out, full scale on my 7623A (8div) will map to full scale on the 2nd scope when that one is set for 500 m/div; 8 divisions maps to 8 divisions.? Using a signal generator into the 7623A, ch.1, and the vert.sig.out to my 2465A.? Set the generator for a 5 volt pk (sine wave). 7623A 5v/div? ? 2465A 0.5 v/div ? ? 1 div? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 1 div? ? ? ? 5v:0.5v = 10:1 division ? ? ?7623A 2v/div? ?2565A 0.5 v/div ? ? 2.5 div? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?2.5 div? ? ? 5v:1.25v = 4:1 division ? ? That seems to be a rather screwy system.? I understand dividing down to send a signal to other test equipment but when you are trying to duplicate the operation of a simple 1A1 this does give some challenges.? I would like to find a schematic of that output.
Ozan All Messages By This Member #16898 On Thu, May 16, 2024 at 08:05 AM, mike zias / W3JRR wrote: Hello Jon, ? I don't need Full BW so I use the 1 meg input.?? Just to be sure I have this straight: ? ?Using another scope to view Vert.Sig.Out, full scale on my 7623A (8div) will map to full scale on the 2nd scope when that one is set for 500 m/div; 8 divisions maps to 8 divisions.? Using a signal generator into the 7623A, ch.1, and the vert.sig.out to my 2465A.? Set the generator for a 5 volt pk (sine wave). 7623A 5v/div? ? 2465A 0.5 v/div ? ? 1 div? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 1 div? ? ? ? 5v:0.5v = 10:1 division ? ? ?7623A 2v/div? ?2565A 0.5 v/div ? ? 2.5 div? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?2.5 div? ? ? 5v:1.25v = 4:1 division ? ? That seems to be a rather screwy system.? I understand dividing down to send a signal to other test equipment but when you are trying to duplicate the operation of a simple 1A1 this does give some challenges.? I would like to find a schematic of that output. ==== Isn't 1A1 operating the same way? The gain is specified to be ~10 only when Ch1 is set to 5mV/cm. If you set Ch1 to a different attenuation factor output will be attenuated same way as what you are seeing on 7623A. BTW, your 2465A also has Ch2 output at the back with 10mV/div into 50-ohm. Ozan Here is the actual text from 1A1: "Signal—Output Voltage and Gain—With Channel 1 set for a deflection factor of 0.005 v/cm, output signal voltage is about 50 mv/cm or a gain of approximately 10."?
mike zias / W3JRR All Messages By This Member #16899 Ozan, ? I will have to look into that.? I have never used a 1A1 but only saw it used in an application.? The Ch2 only output doesn't work in my application as I need Ch1, Ch2, and Ch1 - Ch2 (inverting Ch2).? ? Regards, ? ? ?JMZ
Froggie the Gremlin All Messages By This Member #16900 Mike: VERT OUT is NOT intended to duplicate 1A1 or other old PU. Its main use is to cascade VERT OUT to same scope other PU Vert CH 1 IN. See OP and SERV manual for scope you have for exact spec as it IS not uniform for every scope with VERT OUT. Often the setup specified 50 mV or 10 mV on second stge to achieve a 10X increaded overall scale factor. Exactly what are you trying to acomplish? Cheers Amicalment Jon
mike zias / W3JRR All Messages By This Member #16901 Thanks Jon, ? ?Well, I think I have the normalization factor figured out. ?It does limit the usefulness. ?I am going back through my old papers and videos? from Dr. Middlebrook (went to his seminar in 1984 and have his his 20 hr video). ?So I built the 709 amplifier circuit he used and I wanted? to duplicate the measurements. ?So, when vx or vy is relatively small he liked to use A1vx, A2vy, and A1vx-A2vy. ?The A factors being selected vertical v/cm controls of the 1A1. ?I am using an HP wave analyzer as Middlebrook did. ?Since A1 and A2 will likely be quite different the 7623A? vert. out is problematic. ?
Froggie the Gremlin All Messages By This Member #16902 Dear Mike, bravo for the duplication of Dr Middlebrooks techniques. We are of same vintage as I knew Middlebrook and his collaborator Slobodan CUK very well. We had visited at their Caltech Pasadena lab. Another fine approach was by Dean Venable, a pioneer in injection plot and use of computers in 1980s. Had Dean visit for a demo, very impressive! Nowadays we use a differential probe or amp. We like AM503 but also have the Yokogawa x100 x1000 differential probe. Exactly what is your application? Have an absolutely fantastic day! Jon
mike zias / W3JRR All Messages By This Member #16903 Hi Jon, ? ?I have a copy of Dean Venables book: "Stability Analysis Made Simple".? I bought that for $30 back in the Mid 1980's.? Retired for several years now, this work is just as a hobbyist.? I do still teach on online class in first year physics for New York Empire State University.? If I win the lottery I will look at a Solatron 1250 or similar.? Otherwise, I am on an Ebay budget.? I see Venable equipment for sale but usually as "parts only".?? Having been burned before on Ebay I avoid that class of equipment.? My 7623A will work as long as I keep both channels on the same scale.? Using different scales is going to require a lot of thought (I was hoping to avoid that - lol).? Have a great day.
Froggie the Gremlin All Messages By This Member #16904 Mike fine memories and work. See the patents and topologies of Cuk ad Midddlebrook in the IEEE power electronics and PESC, APEC etc. Was at CCNY, unfamiliar with your school. Enjoy, Jon

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