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Very interested in how you find those tapes. If they are OK then programming them might be a challenge?
I dug out my 4041 and checked the ROMS- photo of the ROM carrier in my Dropbox here-

I was always under the impression that a boot tape was required to kick it into life and facilitate changing control to the serial port - based on recent posts I now see that may be wrong? Or is that just to use the keyboard? I need to read those posts again. My 4041 has been stashed away waiting for a boot tape to be acquired for quite some time but is that really necessary? The 25 pin RS232 connector on the back of mine is labeled comm 0.
Must admit I have not looked at this problem in some years.
I have no idea re condition of the tape drive in mine but visually it looks OK, as does the whole instrument, both internally and externally.
DaveB, NZ

Dave Brown,

Great photo. Looks like you have all the same option ROMs mine has!

My plan on creating a copy of the System Verification tape is pretty simple - using the TXT files I posted on github, written to tape in the order listed in the 'LONG DIR' file:

You must have the Program Development ROMs to transfer ASCII text files into IT files on tape. Otherwise you can try to load and save the IT files - I'll be trying ASCII first.

1 - connect PC with TXT files to LEMO keyboard connector (with USB to TTL Serial adapter, after performing resistor mods listed in my post /g/TekScopes/message/167533. I use Realterm, set to 4800 N82) 2- Type "SET DRIVER "COMM0(BAU=9600,FLA=BID):", then type"SET CONSOLE "COMM0:" (if you have two COMM ports, otherwise "COMM" for single COMM port) (now disconnect USB to TTL adapter and use USB to RS232 to COMM port. I typically close Realterm and reopen to ensure I'm programming the different port to 9600 N82 with XON/XOFF selected) 3 - insert blank tape and type "FORMAT" 4- Begin file transfer: set up Realterm to open file to send, type "LOAD "COMM:", start Realterm SEND. File should be loaded in 4041 memory 5 - Type "SAVE" to save file to tape 6 - select next file to send on Realterm and go to step 4 until done

To create a 'boot' tape to enable the serial port - the only file needed on the tape is AUTOLD.IT, so the only file to LOAD is CONFIG.ASC, the do a SAVE AUTOLD and the Program Development ROMs will create the binary AUTOLD.IT file on the tape.

Dave Brown,

There are three ways to interface to the 4041 that I see from the documentation. #1 is the intended case for GPIB instrument tests, likely writing test results to the tape.

1 - AUTO LOAD a tape that has an AUTOLD file and possibly other programs that will run automatically (like the System Verification tape). User Input will be the front panel buttons. Output will be the LEDs on the Front Panel or files written to that tape. 2 - With Program Development ROMs (and other Option ROMs as required by your program) you can use the LEMO keyboard interface to type BASIC commands in immediate mode, output will be on LEDs on the Front Panel. You can directly type the two commands in my previous post to change the CONSOLE from the front panel to COMM. Then you can use the PC or attached terminal of choice (change the SET DRIVER parameter for different terminal types) to control the 4041 through BASIC commands in immediate mode. 3 - variation on #2. Once using either keyboard or COMM interface you can type LOAD "file" to select any program file on the tape and RUN it.

Dave Brown,

I found the NOS DC100A tapes on EBAY. Since these tapes are obsolete (over 20 years) - some of the sellers on EBAY have previously used tapes, some have new tapes still in factory wrap.

If the drive belts are deteriorated or broken (very likely) - they tend to damage the tape oxide on the takeup and supply reels - as this design has the drive belt in contact with the oxide side of the tape :(

For the NOS tapes - I will likely NOT try to run them with the original drive belts, and immediately open the cartridge - remove the original belt and install a Plastiband as shown in my photo folder.

Cross my fingers - that will allow recording the System Verification tape files to create a usable, bootable tape.

The System Verification tape autoloads a program that allows you to select the TERMIN program to change the console to the rear serial port, or run the System Test programs.

I do have a full set of development ROMs. My 4041 is in perfect condition,
and only needs healthy tapes to continue providing useful service.

--
Gary Robert Bosworth
grbosworth@...
Tel: 310-317-2247

In my 4041 experiments this weekend, I was able to run the System Verification program by transferring the .asc version I have archived from my PC into the 4041.

However, I have to modify steps 4 and 5 in my process:

4 - Set up Realterm to send the .txt program file you want to transfer into the 4041. start Realterm SEND - the file is loaded into 4041 memory as though you typed it :) 5 - Type SAVE "filename" to save the program in 4041 memory to the filename you enter in quotes

Alternatively, you can just run the program you downloaded into memory by typing RUN.

I did this for the System Verification program, as I am still having issues auto loading that tape. I think the COPY command I used to transfer to COMM to the PC retries more than the LOAD command.

I was able to test the Front Panel display and even tried testing the printer. Still have printer issues - but I don't think I have to fix it.

I have also transferred the CPU board with V2.1 firmware into the chassis that had the extra COMM and GPIB ports.

I then successfully bootstrapped the 4041 to use the COMM0: port as console with my Tektronix 4052 with the console in "Storage" mode.

I also got COMM1: working with my PC at the same time.

I am experimenting with translating one of my 4052 games to run on the 4041 and output the graphics to the 4052

The process of transferring a program into the 4041 won't work with most of the System Verification files without a working tape drive, as those programs are called by the SYSVER program as subroutines :(

You could modify some of the individual test files into a standalone test program.

I successfully created a copy of the System Verification tape and tested it on my 4041 without the ROM Carrier and Program Development ROMs installed!

Quite an effort - I received the 15 DC100A NOS tapes Sunday and spent the rest of the day trying to record on one of them - unsuccessfully. The belt was not broken when I took off the shrink wrap - but it broke immediately when I pressed the AUTO LOAD button on the front panel.

I replaced the belt with one of the 4 1/4" Plastibands and tried multiple times to format the tape but kept getting errors. The band kept popping off and the tape head was getting clogged with 'tape shed' and the two guide posts collected 'tape shed' and the tape would stick.

An internet search turned up a youtube video from Curious Marc that itemized several different issues with trying to recover the data from old DC100 tapes in an HP computer - I was seeing most of those issues with these NOS tapes. I believe these five tapes are from 1993, a second box 1992 and the third box from 1991 - based on the publishing date on one of the papers inside the case with each tape.

The solution recommended in the video was to 'bake' the tapes at 135 degrees F in a dehydrator.

I went looking for tape 'baking' instructions, and said his best results were from baking for two days.

I opened up the other four tapes, removed the plastic belt rollers, the capstan and taped the two drive reels together as recommended with the tape directly between the two reels.

I have an Excalibur dehydrator and set the control to 135F. I put all five NOS tapes in the dehydrator, numbering each on the 'invisible tape'. I measured the temp of the tapes multiple times during the two days with an infrared temp sensor - got within one degree of 135F every measurement.

Instructions indicated letting the cartridges cool for an hour - I waited longer than that.

First I tried reassembling tape #1 that I was unable to use on Sunday - with a fresh Plastiband belt. The 4041 kept indicating an Invalid Tape error. Possibly from previous recording attempts.

I then put tape #1 aside and picked tape #2, fresh band, plugged it in and got CRC error when I pressed AUTO Load. I was able to format the tape and began writing one file at a time to the tape, checking the directory list after each operation. I had to replace the belt a couple of times, and retension a couple of times, but got all the files written.

Here is the resulting directory list of my first System Verification Tape copy. Notice that I didn't put a tape name in the FORMAT command, and didn't SET TIME until several files were recorded.

My process steps were not quite correct - here is a new sequence, after you have bootstrapped the console to COMM: (COMM0: if you have two serial ports)

1 - SET TIME 2 - Format the tape, recommend adding the parameter to name the tape 3 - Select an ASCII file to SEND with Realterm 4 - Start the transfer - you will see the lines of the program on the Realterm window 5 - Select the Realterm console window in order to type commands to the 4041 6 - SAVE "filename(OPE=NEW,CLI=YES,FOR=ITEM)" 7 - If you don't get an error, type DIR and check that 'filename' is at the end of the DIR and the correct type (IT) and filesize. If error, DELETE FILE "filename" and do STEP 6 8 - LOAD "COMM:" then press front panel "ABORT" button. This clears the previous program in memory. 9 - now repeat starting with STEP 3 until done

Here is my tape copy long directory list. Only file that didn't match length with original is the last file TSCSI.ASC. I actually I wrote both the TDIR and CONFIG files in 2000 - note the file dates are the 4041 default of 1981 if the SET TIME command is not run.

From the timestamps - it took me three hours to write the files to the tape.

       01-JAN-81 00:15:50  SOFT ERRORS = 21       

FILE FILE LENGTH START NUMBER LAST
NAME TYPE IN BYTES RECORD OF REC. MODIFICATION DATE

---

AUTOLD IT 2550 5 10 01-JAN-81 00:28:00 TERMIN IT 8160 15 32 01-JAN-81 00:40:00 SYSVER IT 3570 47 14 01-JAN-81 00:44:00 CONFIG AS 1020 61 4 01-JAN-81 00:50:00 PROCED IT 1020 65 4 01-JAN-81 00:59:00 LINK IT 765 69 3 01-JAN-81 01:01:00 DISP IT 1275 72 5 03-JUN-20 19:33:00 KEYPAD IT 1530 77 6 03-JUN-20 19:37:00 PRINTE IT 765 83 3 03-JUN-20 19:41:00 TAPE IT 4590 86 18 03-JUN-20 19:43:00 SOFTER IT 765 104 3 03-JUN-20 19:45:00 IO IT 4590 107 18 03-JUN-20 19:48:00 TIMER IT 1530 125 6 03-JUN-20 19:49:00 PDKYBD IT 4335 131 17 03-JUN-20 20:01:00 GPIB IT 2040 148 8 03-JUN-20 20:10:00 GPIBLB IT 3315 156 13 03-JUN-20 20:12:00 GPIBCO IT 2040 169 8 03-JUN-20 20:13:00 SLAVE IT 3315 177 13 03-JUN-20 20:15:00 MASTER IT 1785 190 7 03-JUN-20 20:17:00 PAU IT 765 197 3 03-JUN-20 20:21:00 TPCAL IT 1275 200 5 03-JUN-20 20:23:00 PTRCAL IT 1020 205 4 03-JUN-20 20:25:00 FRMAT IT 1020 209 4 03-JUN-20 20:27:00 TSTPTN IT 2040 213 8 03-JUN-20 20:37:00 CHKOPT IT 1275 221 5 03-JUN-20 20:39:00 OPT2 IT 765 226 3 03-JUN-20 20:56:00 HELP IT 3060 229 12 03-JUN-20 21:00:00 PDTEST IT 255 241 1 03-JUN-20 21:05:00 SCSI IT 2550 242 10 03-JUN-20 21:07:00 TSYSVR AS 4080 252 16 03-JUN-20 21:09:00 TSCSI AS 4590 268 18 03-JUN-20 21:19:00 98685
*

Gary Robert Bosworth and Dave Brown and anyone else interested in a copy of the 4041 System Verification tape,

send me an email: mmcgraw74@...

Monty McGraw

A public thank you for all the work you have put into this, Monty.
Will contact you directly to progress things.
DaveB, NZ

gmail

I've shipped out a full copy of the System Verification Tape.

Instructions for running the System Verification Tape are in the 4041 Systems Controller Guide - all known 4041 manuals including Programming are posted on bitsavers.org:

This tape will either run automatically if inserted when you power on the 4041 or it will re-run if you press the front panel Auto Load button.

It starts with the TERMIN program asking if you want to configure the COMM port as the System Console. If you have write protection off on the tape, it will save the CONFIG.AS file if the configuration you requested is accepted by pressing "1" on the external console when prompted.

However, this file will not be used - unless you either copy it to another tape or copy it to the AUTOLD file. Follow the instructions on page 4-15 to format a blank tape and write the CONFIG file to AUTOLD, so that tape will boot to remote console mode.

If you only have one tape and want to use the System Verification tape as your boot tape, then from the remote COMM console:

Enable writing to the SysVer tape: 1 - LOAD "AUTOLD" 2 - SAVE "BACKAU" 3 - LOAD "CONFIG" 4 - SAVE "AUTOLD"

Then write protect the SysVer tape :)

Your tape would then automatically boot the 4041 to the COMM console with the configuration you selected with the TERMINAL program.

To run the System Verification programs after this - from the COMM console: LOAD "BACKAU", then RUN (although I haven't tested these instructions)

If you don't have the Programming Development ROMs in the ROM Carrier - you cannot use the 4041 keyboard (you hear 'BELL' for every key press), nor can you use the remote COMM console ('BELL' control characters are sent in reply to every remote console key press).

I decided to take a look at why my 4041 thermal printer was printing unrecognizable characters.

I was able to fix it by removing the timing disk cover and cleaning the contacts and timing disk with 90% isopropyl alcohol. I believe the 40 year old grease on the timing disk had hardened and was keeping the contacts from making proper contact with the timing disk.

You can see description and photos of the repair on my post on vcfed:

Thank you for your reply.
Is there an external printer I can connect to my 2465?
Thanks.
Tony

Tony,

Does your 2465 include the GPIB option connector?

If not - I don't think you can connect that scope to anything externally - controller or printer.

I do see in the 2445/2465 Option 10 GPIB manual - control programs for the Tektronix 4051/4052/4054 and Tektronix 4041 to change settings on the 2465 with Option 10.

But I don't think the 2465 can digitally capture the analog inputs. It looks like the GPIB can only be used for all the front panel settings.

I think you need a DSO in order to capture the inputs in digital form - and those scopes may have printer output capability.

The 4041 thermal printer cannot be used with any other equipment - there is a board inside the 4041 that drives the printer for 20 column text output - not graphics.

The 4041 GPIB Programming Guide has an example of printing the output on a 4025 terminal, or a 4662 plotter, but not on the internal printer.

Thank you very much for your reply.
I do have DMM 2465 with option 10 GPIB - I should state that earlier, sorry.
I do have the Tektronix P6407 Word Recognizer Probe with the 2 rows of
attachable probes...
But in one of today's responses, I was assured that I can't connect it to a
computer - so I'm confused now.
I was hoping to use Python or something like that... :

I know that they do not talk about my scope, or any analog scope, but there
are very smart people out there!
It wouldn't surprise me if there is something that works with one of my
rear ports..

Tony,

The 7D20 Instrument Interfacing Guide has program listings for the 4041 and 4052A that put or get waveforms from the 7D20.

I don't know how you would use the 2465 to trigger the 7D20 to digitize a waveform, but assuming that could be done, a 4041 with the Programming Option ROMs and Plotter Option ROMs would be able to load the program in that guide from a PC connected to the COMM port.

You could connect the PC to the front panel keyboard connector with two jumper wires to a USB to TTL serial adapter - after you perform the resistor mod to the Front Panel interface board in the 4041 - in one of my previous messages in this thread.

The 4041 Plotter Option ROMs would allow you to connect to a Tektronix 4662 or 4663 plotter and provide a hard copy plot of the waveform (see page 83 in the 4041 GPIB programming guide for an example plot to a Tek graphics terminal - similar program would plot the waveform on a plotter.

There are programs for the PC that could emulate the Tektronix terminal - so you wouldn't need the plotter. You would need a USB to RS-232 interface plugged into the 4041 COMM port to receive the data on the PC. Then you would load the data file into the Tektronix terminal emulator program from this site:

Then you could snapshot the graphics screen on the PC and send it to any PC printer.

Hope that helps.

Monty

Tony,

I wish I could edit my last post.

To run any program on the 4041 that is not already saved on a tape - you need the 4041 Programming ROM option in the 4041. You would also need the Plotting Option ROM to make an image from a waveform captured by the 7D20.

To control the 4041, you either need a working tape with a AUTOLD file that changes the 4041 console from the keyboard to the COMM port, OR you need to connect a PC to the keyboard connector with a USB to TTL serial adapter - and you need to perform the resistor mod I described in an earlier post.

Interfacing to the keyboard connector can only provide instructions to the 4041, so you could use the two instructions provided in one of my earlier post to change the console to the COMM port. Then you would use a different adapter: USB to RS-232 to connect the PC to the COMM port. At this point you can send commands to the 4041 including programs, and the console output will be sent to the PC and could be captured in a file.

That file on the PC could then be sent to the Tektronix terminal emulator - if it was the program in the 7D20 for example.

Monty

Monty, thank you for the info - I did download both the article and Github
- and when I can, I'll try to make it work.
Have a great weekend!
Tony