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Hello Roy,

I am really surprised at you of all people sounding like a wet blanket.

The owner of this tekscope group told you in no uncertain terms if you
want to talk about ESR Meters to go and form your own group. Which
to your credit you did just that. I also did not like the way that the owner
of this group, Dennis Tillman, jumped on Mr Chuck Harris for describing
how to use an oscilloscope with a function generator to check capacitors
for value and ESR. Shutting someone up for describing how to use an
oscilloscope on an oscilloscope group is to me just plain crazy.
Those are rules that you have to obey, like them or not.

Roy, if you are not enjoying reading about the repair of the 475 scope
by a beginner then do not read the thread. It is that simple!

I think it is marvellous that so many people on this group are willing
to help an individul fix his 475 scope. What a great thing to do,
while we are in corona virus lock down.
My fellow countryman Graham VK1GVC, down in Canberra is
doing a great job helping Bruce and so so are all the othere people.
The side benefit for me and no doubt others on this group is that
Bruce is asking basic questions as a beginner that other people
on this group might not dare to ask for fear of looking foolish.

Keep asking questions Bruce. I want you to fix this scope.

Regards,
John Crighton
Sydney


----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy Thistle" <roy.thistle@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 1:51 PM
Subject: [TekScopes] Encouraging beginners: What are we accomplishing?


Hi all TekScopers:
Reading through a long thread, recently posted, caused me to wonder.. just what are TekScopers accomplishing with threads like this... and why are we encouraging someone who is "... new to electronics..." to dig into a 475?... one of the most complex, and compact, analog instruments ever designed.
I suppose.. in consideration... Michael discouraged the use of a Mr. Carlson super Weller-kluge special, on the 475's pcb(s)... but, ya know... somewhere the thread... the 475 owner hints he paid 20.00 for 475?, and he's also got a nonworking? PM3218 too.
So why didn't someone just recommend/... right off the bat... to take the 475 to someone who knows what they are doing... drop another 100.00 on it... and then he'd have one of the best scopes ever made.
Or alternatively... and better... just start in on the PM3218...itself a very fine instrument, with a double insulated power supply... and way overkill, for a beginner.
Look, I'm not unsympathetic... it's just that...too often.. after parting with some scarce cash... or finding some Tek picked apart in a basement somewhere, where its been languishing for a generation...I've witnessed the havoc wreaked by someone trying to "fix" them.
If you want to call me a dumb ass... for thinking this way... well fine... just PM me to do it. I can't promise I'll reply to that... but, I'll read your message.
Best regards and wishes.
Roy




---
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On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 10:05 PM, John Crighton wrote:

Roy, if you are not enjoying reading about the repair of the 475 scope
by a beginner then do not read the thread.

Hi John:
Yes!... if you do not like the topic... then don't read it. What then, I ask, is the logical consequence of that claim?
And, just for the record... I think all this ESR stuff is 95% foolishness... I don't even have one Topic about ESR meters on TekScopes... if one post even.
And, Dennis didn't tell me to do anything about ESR meters. That's something you are making up.
About Chuck... I don't know: in my estimation Chuck can look after himself... pretty good really.
Yes we can celebrate the marvelous-ness of generosity, that of national solidarity in the time of crisis, and of wonderful serendipity, among other things; but, I broached none of that in my post... none of it.
And, a particularly incoherent response, relative to the questions that I did raise, does nothing to address them... nor shows those questions were directed towards anyone in particular, or about anyone in particular. They are not.
What I posted was my opinion, based on my experience, and I stand by it.
Best regards and wishes.
All the best.
Roy.

Hi all TekScopers:
Reading through a long thread, recently posted, caused me to wonder.. just what are TekScopers accomplishing with threads like this... and why are we encouraging someone who is "... new to electronics..." to dig into a 475?... one of the most complex, and compact, analog instruments ever designed.
I suppose.. in consideration... Michael discouraged the use of a Mr. Carlson super Weller-kluge special, on the 475's pcb(s)... but, ya know... somewhere the thread... the 475 owner hints he paid 20.00 for 475?, and he's also got a nonworking? PM3218 too.
So why didn't someone just recommend/... right off the bat... to take the 475 to someone who knows what they are doing... drop another 100.00 on it... and then he'd have one of the best scopes ever made.
Or alternatively... and better... just start in on the PM3218...itself a very fine instrument, with a double insulated power supply... and way overkill, for a beginner.
Look, I'm not unsympathetic... it's just that...too often.. after parting with some scarce cash... or finding some Tek picked apart in a basement somewhere, where its been languishing for a generation...I've witnessed the havoc wreaked by someone trying to "fix" them.
If you want to call me a dumb ass... for thinking this way... well fine... just PM me to do it. I can't promise I'll reply to that... but, I'll read your message.
Best regards and wishes.
Roy

In answer to your question, ANY time you bring in fresh blood, it's better
for everyone. Every time. No exceptions. A rising tide floats all boats.

Right now, Harley Davidson is facing 'massive restructuring'. Why? Their
rider base is literally dying off.
I'm involved in several other hobbies and pursuits where young blood is
not entering. They are dying. And with it comes a similar intellectual
cannibalism.

As any discipline dies, like analog scopes, the entry price will be lower
and lower. Soon, for rummage sale prices, the once-crown-jewel pieces
become affordable. In 1983, how many 60s fastback Mustangs were parked
behind gas station garages (remember those?) and could be had for a couple
hundred? Many were chopped and otherwise brutalized in ways I can't
describe. But such is the price. Today, they're worth more than most
people's financials.

There were many thousands of units produced of scopes and cars and organs
and everything else. Some will live nice lives and some will die horrible
deaths and grownups understand this. I've been the careless kid and the
fastidious curator, but at both extremes I remembered the Prime Directive:
this thing is MINE, not yours. If you're worried about it, you can buy it
from me and store it away. If not, tough.

If we want a growing following, then we have to let the newbs make their
mistakes and learn as we did - yes, even on top tier equipment. If it
grows enough, someday my old junk might be worth as much as I think it is
now. If not, someone will speak poorly of me as they shovel it all out
into a dumpster after my demise.

Besides, if it tracks like everything else, one day some others will join
your song and these units will skyrocket - at least temporarily. I own a
Hammond console. In 1988, it was dumpster fodder. By 2010, it was $10K.
Today, it's maybe $4k. These things have a cycle and scopes are certainly
no exception.

Anyway, help every newb you can. If they want to try their hand, the
answer is NEVER "let someone else do it". They're gonna do it wrong. Just
as wrong as you and I used to do stuff. The sooner they learn to do it
right, the sooner everything gets better.

L.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Roy
Thistle
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2020 10:52 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [TekScopes] Encouraging beginners: What are we accomplishing?

Hi all TekScopers:
Reading through a long thread, recently posted, caused me to wonder.. just
what are TekScopers accomplishing with threads like this... and why are we
encouraging someone who is "... new to electronics..." to dig into a
475?... one of the most complex, and compact, analog instruments ever
designed.
I suppose.. in consideration... Michael discouraged the use of a Mr.
Carlson super Weller-kluge special, on the 475's pcb(s)... but, ya know...
somewhere the thread... the 475 owner hints he paid 20.00 for 475?, and
he's also got a nonworking? PM3218 too.
So why didn't someone just recommend/... right off the bat... to take the
475 to someone who knows what they are doing... drop another 100.00 on
it... and then he'd have one of the best scopes ever made.
Or alternatively... and better... just start in on the PM3218...itself a
very fine instrument, with a double insulated power supply... and way
overkill, for a beginner.
Look, I'm not unsympathetic... it's just that...too often.. after parting
with some scarce cash... or finding some Tek picked apart in a basement
somewhere, where its been languishing for a generation...I've witnessed the
havoc wreaked by someone trying to "fix" them.
If you want to call me a dumb ass... for thinking this way... well fine...
just PM me to do it. I can't promise I'll reply to that... but, I'll read
your message.
Best regards and wishes.
Roy

Hello Roy,

I am really surprised at you of all people sounding like a wet blanket.

The owner of this tekscope group told you in no uncertain terms if you
want to talk about ESR Meters to go and form your own group. Which
to your credit you did just that.? I also did not like the way that the owner
of this group, Dennis Tillman, jumped on Mr Chuck Harris for describing
how to use an oscilloscope with a function generator to check capacitors
for value and ESR. Shutting someone up for describing how to use an
oscilloscope on an oscilloscope group is to me just plain crazy.
Those are rules that you have to obey, like them or not.

I agree with you, John.? At first I was dismayed at Bruce's many posts, but then I thought, hey, I have no experience with the 475 and no interest in one, so I'll just delete the darn posts! Simple as that!

Bruce, knock yourself out!? Post as much as you need to to get the information you need to fix your scope.? Good luck!

Jim Ford

In answer to your question, ANY time you bring in fresh blood, it's
better for everyone. Every time. No exceptions. A rising tide floats all boats.

Right now, Harley Davidson is facing 'massive restructuring'. Why?
Their rider base is literally dying off.
I'm involved in several other hobbies and pursuits where young blood
is not entering. They are dying. And with it comes a similar
intellectual cannibalism.

As any discipline dies, like analog scopes, the entry price will be
lower and lower. Soon, for rummage sale prices, the once-crown-jewel
pieces become affordable. In 1983, how many 60s fastback Mustangs
were parked behind gas station garages (remember those?) and could be
had for a couple hundred? Many were chopped and otherwise brutalized
in ways I can't describe. But such is the price. Today, they're
worth more than most people's financials.

There were many thousands of units produced of scopes and cars and
organs and everything else. Some will live nice lives and some will
die horrible deaths and grownups understand this. I've been the
careless kid and the fastidious curator, but at both extremes I remembered the Prime Directive:
this thing is MINE, not yours. If you're worried about it, you can
buy it from me and store it away. If not, tough.

If we want a growing following, then we have to let the newbs make
their mistakes and learn as we did - yes, even on top tier equipment.
If it grows enough, someday my old junk might be worth as much as I
think it is now. If not, someone will speak poorly of me as they
shovel it all out into a dumpster after my demise.

Besides, if it tracks like everything else, one day some others will
join your song and these units will skyrocket - at least temporarily.
I own a Hammond console. In 1988, it was dumpster fodder. By 2010, it was $10K.
Today, it's maybe $4k. These things have a cycle and scopes are
certainly no exception.

Anyway, help every newb you can. If they want to try their hand, the
answer is NEVER "let someone else do it". They're gonna do it wrong.
Just as wrong as you and I used to do stuff. The sooner they learn to
do it right, the sooner everything gets better.

L.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Roy Thistle
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2020 10:52 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [TekScopes] Encouraging beginners: What are we accomplishing?

Hi all TekScopers:
Reading through a long thread, recently posted, caused me to wonder..
just what are TekScopers accomplishing with threads like this... and
why are we encouraging someone who is "... new to electronics..." to
dig into a 475?... one of the most complex, and compact, analog
instruments ever designed.
I suppose.. in consideration... Michael discouraged the use of a Mr.
Carlson super Weller-kluge special, on the 475's pcb(s)... but, ya know...
somewhere the thread... the 475 owner hints he paid 20.00 for 475?,
and he's also got a nonworking? PM3218 too.
So why didn't someone just recommend/... right off the bat... to take
the
475 to someone who knows what they are doing... drop another 100.00 on
it... and then he'd have one of the best scopes ever made.
Or alternatively... and better... just start in on the PM3218...itself
a very fine instrument, with a double insulated power supply... and
way overkill, for a beginner.
Look, I'm not unsympathetic... it's just that...too often.. after
parting with some scarce cash... or finding some Tek picked apart in a
basement somewhere, where its been languishing for a generation...I've
witnessed the havoc wreaked by someone trying to "fix" them.
If you want to call me a dumb ass... for thinking this way... well fine...
just PM me to do it. I can't promise I'll reply to that... but, I'll
read your message.
Best regards and wishes.
Roy

I will put in my 2 cents worth here.? I have a 465, and it had been in storage for about 2 years.? It wasn't working when I got it out to use.? Have owned it for about 7 years using in my trouble shooting and repair work.? The scope's case never been off.? I am a complete novice when it comes to SS electronics.? I have been a ham for a long time and have used, repaired, and home brewed tube type transmitters, receivers, and accessories.? With the help I got on TekScopes2, I was able to quickly locate and fix the problem with my scope.? I always welcome knowledgeable help from anyone.

David
KW4DH

On 5/27/2020 1:14 AM, Jim Ford wrote:

I agree with you, John.? At first I was dismayed at Bruce's many posts, but then I thought, hey, I have no experience with the 475 and no interest in one, so I'll just delete the darn posts! Simple as that!

Bruce, knock yourself out!? Post as much as you need to to get the information you need to fix your scope.? Good luck!

Jim Ford

87% of all statistics are made up on the spot