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I'm resorting to printing one of my own manuals (which doesn't appear to be available in hard copy from the usual suspects, and is thankfully relatively short). I've got it printed now on normal 20 lb paper, but it's much flimsier than the original manuals I have. I'm looking into making a much nicer copy with blue covers and comb binding, and would like to get closer to the quality of the original article.
Does anybody know what weight of paper was used to print the old manuals? If not, I guess I just buy some reams of heavier weight papers and see what feels right.
-- Jeff Dutky
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Just by memory of the feel, I'd say 24# or 26#
Harvey
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On 7/23/2021 9:26 PM, Jeff Dutky wrote: I'm resorting to printing one of my own manuals (which doesn't appear to be available in hard copy from the usual suspects, and is thankfully relatively short). I've got it printed now on normal 20 lb paper, but it's much flimsier than the original manuals I have. I'm looking into making a much nicer copy with blue covers and comb binding, and would like to get closer to the quality of the original article.
Does anybody know what weight of paper was used to print the old manuals? If not, I guess I just buy some reams of heavier weight papers and see what feels right.
-- Jeff Dutky
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Jeff,
I contacted and worked with Lacy Communications on eBay: to see about getting a 2236 manual. He went to the trouble of finding and correcting a pdf to print up a manual. I think he is very helpful and eager to create a useful facsimile of needed manuals.
Perhaps reach out to him to see if he can build the manual you need. If he doesn't already have it on hand.
Dave
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On Friday, July 23, 2021, 6:27:01 PM PDT, Jeff Dutky <jeff.dutky@...> wrote:
I'm resorting to printing one of my own manuals (which doesn't appear to be available in hard copy from the usual suspects, and is thankfully relatively short). I've got it printed now on normal 20 lb paper, but it's much flimsier than the original manuals I have. I'm looking into making a much nicer copy with blue covers and comb binding, and would like to get closer to the quality of the original article.
Does anybody know what weight of paper was used to print the old manuals? If not, I guess I just buy some reams of heavier weight papers and see what feels right.
-- Jeff Dutky
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Greetings,
I used a Dial Thickness gauge AKA snap gauge on the pages of my 1960 Tektronix 517A manual. It indicated the page thickness at 0.0054 inch.
Examining several paper weight to thickness charts I found the following:
24 pound bond = 0.0050 inch
28 pound bond = 0.0060 inch
I did find a reference to 100 pound Coated Text Dull paper stock = 0.0054 inch
I did not find a reference for 26 pound bond.
I hope this helps.
If you have an original Tektronix manual and access to a local print shop, not an office supply store or copy shop, but a place with real offset printing presses, they may be very willing to help determine exactly what paper you seek.
Regards,
Ken
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On 23Jul, 2021, at 7:26 PM, Jeff Dutky <jeff.dutky@...> wrote:
I'm resorting to printing one of my own manuals (which doesn't appear to be available in hard copy from the usual suspects, and is thankfully relatively short). I've got it printed now on normal 20 lb paper, but it's much flimsier than the original manuals I have. I'm looking into making a much nicer copy with blue covers and comb binding, and would like to get closer to the quality of the original article.
Does anybody know what weight of paper was used to print the old manuals? If not, I guess I just buy some reams of heavier weight papers and see what feels right.
-- Jeff Dutky
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On 2021-07-24 1:04 a.m., ken chalfant wrote: Greetings,
I used a Dial Thickness gauge AKA snap gauge on the pages of my 1960 Tektronix 517A manual. It indicated the page thickness at 0.0054 inch.
Examining several paper weight to thickness charts I found the following:
24 pound bond = 0.0050 inch
28 pound bond = 0.0060 inch
I did find a reference to 100 pound Coated Text Dull paper stock = 0.0054 inch
I did not find a reference for 26 pound bond.
I hope this helps.
If you have an original Tektronix manual and access to a local print shop, not an office supply store or copy shop, but a place with real offset printing presses, they may be very willing to help determine exactly what paper you seek.
Regards,
Ken
FWIW, I weighed 10 pages of a Tek 515A manual, I got approx 107 gsm -- approx 405 gsm for the blue covers. Of course heavier always feels better (I would try at least 120 gsm equivalent). --Toby
On 23Jul, 2021, at 7:26 PM, Jeff Dutky <jeff.dutky@...> wrote:
I'm resorting to printing one of my own manuals (which doesn't appear to be available in hard copy from the usual suspects, and is thankfully relatively short). I've got it printed now on normal 20 lb paper, but it's much flimsier than the original manuals I have. I'm looking into making a much nicer copy with blue covers and comb binding, and would like to get closer to the quality of the original article.
Does anybody know what weight of paper was used to print the old manuals? If not, I guess I just buy some reams of heavier weight papers and see what feels right.
-- Jeff Dutky
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Thank you Toby and Ken for making those measurements. I have several reams of paper on order (28 lb and 32 lb because, as you say, heavier feels better). At the moment I'm using a blue 1/2 inch 3-ring binder for this manual, but I do intend to look into comb binding and good cover stock.
The covers used by Tek were 9x11 inches, and the paper has what feels like a plastic coating. For a one-off job I can cut the window by hand, but I'm considering a run of covers from a print shop that would do die cutting of the front cover window, and silver ink printing.
-- Jeff Dutky
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Years ago (2006), I found a comb binder on ebay. It was about $112. Did not include supplies, which are easy to get.
the trade name was Ibimatic, which is a brand of Ibico.
It's handy to have. I don't know if I use it enough, but unless I want to go to my copy/print place and pay them, there's no other way.
It's also handy for disassembling an existing "book" so you can copy a page, etc. Then, when reassembling, there is no equal.
You can buy covers for your "reports" but they are not the same stock, and not Tektronix blue.
It sounds like you are pretty OCD about this.
--rick chinn
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I bought a bunch of black and white combs and a small-capacity comb punch a while back. I used it to replace many crumbling Tektronix manual combs, as well as binding various other documents (such as Jim Williams¡¯ Linear Technology AN-47 which is ridiculously long and ridiculously useful). I have a bunch of clear front covers and black rear covers from Kinkos that I use for covers.
DaveD
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On Jul 25, 2021, at 13:44, rick <rickc@...> wrote:
?Years ago (2006), I found a comb binder on ebay. It was about $112. Did not include supplies, which are easy to get.
the trade name was Ibimatic, which is a brand of Ibico.
It's handy to have. I don't know if I use it enough, but unless I want to go to my copy/print place and pay them, there's no other way.
It's also handy for disassembling an existing "book" so you can copy a page, etc. Then, when reassembling, there is no equal.
You can buy covers for your "reports" but they are not the same stock, and not Tektronix blue.
It sounds like you are pretty OCD about this.
--rick chinn
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Dave Henderson of Artek manuals posted awhile back showing how to replace a comb binding.
DaveD
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On Jul 25, 2021, at 14:01, Dave Daniel via groups.io <kc0wjn@...> wrote:
?I bought a bunch of black and white combs and a small-capacity comb punch a while back. I used it to replace many crumbling Tektronix manual combs, as well as binding various other documents (such as Jim Williams¡¯ Linear Technology AN-47 which is ridiculously long and ridiculously useful). I have a bunch of clear front covers and black rear covers from Kinkos that I use for covers.
DaveD
On Jul 25, 2021, at 13:44, rick <rickc@...> wrote:
?Years ago (2006), I found a comb binder on ebay. It was about $112. Did not include supplies, which are easy to get.
the trade name was Ibimatic, which is a brand of Ibico.
It's handy to have. I don't know if I use it enough, but unless I want to go to my copy/print place and pay them, there's no other way.
It's also handy for disassembling an existing "book" so you can copy a page, etc. Then, when reassembling, there is no equal.
You can buy covers for your "reports" but they are not the same stock, and not Tektronix blue.
It sounds like you are pretty OCD about this.
--rick chinn
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rick,
maybe I am a little OCD about this, but I also once worked in a print shop as a typesetter, back when such things were still things. Producing good looking printed and bound materials still gives me a thrill. If I can do a good job of this without breaking the bank, then I feel like I should.
-- Jeff Dutky
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Jeff,
Nothing wrong with doing a good job. My late wife worked in a bindery, where they built Courthouse record books from scratch. The skill, precision and quality of materials that it takes to build a book that must last for 100+ years is amazing. I still run a business that she founded, selling such books. I appreciate your point of view.
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Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, AR
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Greetings,
I too agree with wanting to make a quality job of it. I confess I also have a background in offset printer and bindery. I have two Ibico comb punches, a paper drill and a corner rounder. Whether I¡¯m making a manual for myself or a report for work or a side job I enjoy making a professional looking manual.
Like others I have also used the Ibico machines to easily replace damaged combs on my older Tektronix manuals.
It might not be a silly as it sounds. I have used my printing experience to help clients and my day job define printing specifications for manuals and documents including identifying proper Pantone color numbers.
I may also be OCD - I just can¡¯t help it! ;-)
Ken
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On 25Jul, 2021, at 7:18 PM, Michael W. Lynch via groups.io <mlynch003@...> wrote:
Jeff,
Nothing wrong with doing a good job. My late wife worked in a bindery, where they built Courthouse record books from scratch. The skill, precision and quality of materials that it takes to build a book that must last for 100+ years is amazing. I still run a business that she founded, selling such books. I appreciate your point of view.
--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, AR
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Completely (or almost) off-topic, but 20 years ago there was someone in my neighborhood disposing of a duplicator press (a cheap version of an offset press this is constructed with less precision and uses cheaper paper "plates" that can only produce a limited number of impressions before they wear out). They were only a few blocks from our house, and my housemate at the time had a trailer that might have been able to transport the press. I regret to this day that I didn't rescue that and keep it in my garage.
My wife seems relatively sanguine about my current passion, but she might have killed me if I hauled that thing home. Also, at the time, my then housemate used most of the garage for his motorcycle habit (for which he had the trailer). so maybe it's just as well. Still, might have beens.
-- Jeff Dutky
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I have no argument with what you're trying. Go for it!
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Also, a number of my Tek manuals, including the one that I just printed out from a PDF, were punched for both comb binding and three ring binding. Most of the manuals that I have with three-ring holes punched are BIG (e.g. the service manuals for the 475 and 2236). For the thinner manuals I can see where you might want to keep several of them in a big D-ring binder, but for the thick ones I don't see how that is practical. Does anyone know what the intent of this was?
-- Jeff Dutky
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Remove the comb and put it in a 3 ring binder? I've seen manuals from other manufacturers where they show a picture of what the manual will look like but when you get it it's actually in a 3 ring binder.
Vince.
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On 07/26/2021 06:06 PM, Jeff Dutky wrote: Also, a number of my Tek manuals, including the one that I just printed out from a PDF, were punched for both comb binding and three ring binding. Most of the manuals that I have with three-ring holes punched are BIG (e.g. the service manuals for the 475 and 2236). For the thinner manuals I can see where you might want to keep several of them in a big D-ring binder, but for the thick ones I don't see how that is practical. Does anyone know what the intent of this was?
-- Jeff Dutky
--
Michigan VHF Corporation -- nobucks dot net
K8ZW -
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Why would one want multiple paper copies of a manual? I copy pages (mostly schematics) when I want to annotate them while troubleshooting, but I have eight file cabinet drawers of manuals. Having extra copies of them would be untenable.
The few non-original manuals that I have (mostly from Artek manuals) are bound with comb bindings. Three-ring binders take up too much space; many of the HP manuals that I have are huge (the manual set for the HP 8566B comes to mind).
DaveD
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On Jul 26, 2021, at 18:06, Jeff Dutky <jeff.dutky@...> wrote:
?Also, a number of my Tek manuals, including the one that I just printed out from a PDF, were punched for both comb binding and three ring binding. Most of the manuals that I have with three-ring holes punched are BIG (e.g. the service manuals for the 475 and 2236). For the thinner manuals I can see where you might want to keep several of them in a big D-ring binder, but for the thick ones I don't see how that is practical. Does anyone know what the intent of this was?
-- Jeff Dutky
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re: multiple copies, yeah Dave, it can get pretty bad pretty quick! My wife has an easy solution. I can have as many manuals as I can fit in one double drawer file cabinet. :-)
For my part, sometimes I do have two copies - these days, usually a printed from electronic version in a three-ring binder. This is my "scratch and dent" version. I mark it up, leave it on the bench, get it dirty, etc. Then I have a "real" factory manual that I try to keep nice.
Jeff, talking about those comb binder installation tools, I think I saw a couple of those out at the local State Property Redistribution Warehouse a couple of weeks ago. I didn't pay too much attention, but now I'm starting to wonder if I should go grab them.
Those spiral or comb style or whatever they're supposed to be called are kind of snazzy.
Keith
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Get a Comb binding tool if you can get one cheap.
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Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, AR
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Get the comb binding punch and the installer as well. Two pieces are necessary.
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Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, AR
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Dave Peterson
Michael W. Lynch