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At 02:30 PM 12/17/2001 -0800, you wrote:

I was wandering if book published for Tek's 40th anniversary is available for sale and where there any other history books published after and before 40th.

I got mine from a retired Tek employee here in Canada. As far as I could gather, the books were distributed only to Tek employees during Tek's 40th anniversary, and were never published or sold to the public. They may also have been avaiIable as "sales giveaways" to Tek customers but I'm not sure about that. I have seen them for sale on eBay.

If you are smitten with Tektronix, it's a fabulous book to read.

Stan : are you up to copying that one for a CD ?

Phil

"Phil (VA3UX)" <phil@...> wrote: At 12:14 PM 11/20/2001 -0800, you wrote:

Hi Don,

This story probably falls in the category of "Tek Legends" but that does
not mean it
is not true. If asked to prove it . . . I could not . . .

It is apparently quite true Stan, assuming Marshall Lee did a thorough job
of researching Tek's history for Tek's 40th anniversary book. It's on page
241. The bogus "D" holes were prompted by an order (to Tektronix) for two
plug-ins from a company that was a subcontractor to Hickok. The order
apparently had the words "Hickok Job" somewhere on the order form, which
was enough to raise plenty of suspicion and get them planning a trap (the
"D" holes).

Phil

Tek had a pretty good idea what was going to happen when they lost the
Goverment bids
for Tek scopes. They knew who the competing companies were and that
copying was very
likely to take place as there really wasn't an easy way to get around
Tek's patents
and still meet the Government specs for scopes. Tek was on the lookout for
suspicious orders that would be placed with them for instruments that
would serve as
the copy samples.

When a suspicous order was found, Tek rigged a special instrument with an
extra hole
in the chassis with no special purpose other than to make it a unique
instrument and
shipped that instrument to satisfy the order. Sure enough, that very hole
showed up
in the copies. In court, Tek asked the defending companies to explain the
purpose of
the hole and, of course, there was no explaination. Tek, however, had a
very good
explaination, with documents to prove it . . . I don't remember whether
this now
famous hole was in a scope or a plugin. Boy, would I like to have THAT
instrument in
my collection . . .

Stan
w7ni@...

Don Black wrote:

Yes, please tell us about the "Bait Hole".
I've got visions of one of those little Tektronix cartoons of a plugin

sitting on

the ice with a little technician fishing through the hole.
But perhaps I'm just a little weird.
Don Black.

"Phil (VA3UX)" wrote:

At 11:50 AM 11/19/2001 -0800, you wrote:

Hi Mike,

I agree that the Hickok, LaVoie, and Jetronic instruments have some

historic

There are other chapters to this story about what evidence Tek

provided at the

trial that might be interesting to some of you.

Tell them about the "bait" plug-in : the one with the special hole

drilled

in the chassis.

Phil

Stan
w7ni@...

mwcpc7@... wrote:

In a message dated 11/18/2001 5:28:56 PM Eastern Standard Time,
w7ni@... writes:

The main reason that the lawsuit between the U.S. Government and

Tektronix

took so long is that it was the first time in U.S. History that

a private

company (Tek) ever took the U.S.Government to court for patent

infringement.

There were no precidents and no one knew exactly how to

proceed. The

Government's position was that since they had ISSUED the

patents to

Tek in

the first place, they could rescind them any time they wanted

to. Tek

challenged that concept and it took 20 years to resolve it. In

the mean

time,

2 of the three companies that did the copying of Tek

instruments (with

Government approval) went bankrupt (LaVoie
and Jetronic) so there was nothing for Tek to collect from

them. The U.S.

Government and Hickok were left to pay the damages, which, by the

way, did

not even come close to covering the attorny costs, much less

any real

damage

done to Tek.

I have one of the Hickok 545s and was quite surprised to see it

at a

Hamfest.

I was originally going to use it just for parts, but the very

interesting

discussion here makes me think that it has some historical

interest.

Mike Csontos


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The book is "Winning with People: The First 40 Years of Tektronix", by
Marshall M. Lee, and there are several copies available for sale at
.

The Tek old timers like Stan & Deane don't seem to think too much of it,
but I found it interesting.

I guess, a lot of employees did not hold books dear, there is a number of them on used market. Some of the books were described as 'Soft Bound'; I wander if those are reprints for customer giveaways, which appeared after exhausting initial stock.

David DiGiacomo gave me address of a place which syndicates used book retailers. The book, 1st edition, was available for around $10 and I bought it.

Regards

Miroslav Pokorni

"Phil (VA3UX)" <phil@...> wrote: At 02:30 PM 12/17/2001 -0800, you wrote:

I was wandering if book published for Tek's 40th anniversary is available
for sale and where there any other history books published after and
before 40th.

I got mine from a retired Tek employee here in Canada. As far as I could
gather, the books were distributed only to Tek employees during Tek's 40th
anniversary, and were never published or sold to the public. They may also
have been avaiIable as "sales giveaways" to Tek customers but I'm not sure
about that. I have seen them for sale on eBay.

If you are smitten with Tektronix, it's a fabulous book to read.

Stan : are you up to copying that one for a CD ?

Phil

"Phil (VA3UX)" <phil@...> wrote: At 12:14 PM 11/20/2001 -0800,
you wrote:

Hi Don,

This story probably falls in the category of "Tek Legends" but that does
not mean it
is not true. If asked to prove it . . . I could not . . .

It is apparently quite true Stan, assuming Marshall Lee did a thorough job
of researching Tek's history for Tek's 40th anniversary book. It's on page
241. The bogus "D" holes were prompted by an order (to Tektronix) for two
plug-ins from a company that was a subcontractor to Hickok. The order
apparently had the words "Hickok Job" somewhere on the order form, which
was enough to raise plenty of suspicion and get them planning a trap (the
"D" holes).

Phil

Tek had a pretty good idea what was going to happen when they lost the
Goverment bids
for Tek scopes. They knew who the competing companies were and that
copying was very
likely to take place as there really wasn't an easy way to get around
Tek's patents
and still meet the Government specs for scopes. Tek was on the lookout for
suspicious orders that would be placed with them for instruments that
would serve as
the copy samples.

When a suspicous order was found, Tek rigged a special instrument with an
extra hole
in the chassis with no special purpose other than to make it a unique
instrument and
shipped that instrument to satisfy the order. Sure enough, that very hole
showed up
in the copies. In court, Tek asked the defending companies to explain the
purpose of
the hole and, of course, there was no explaination. Tek, however, had a
very good
explaination, with documents to prove it . . . I don't remember whether
this now
famous hole was in a scope or a plugin. Boy, would I like to have THAT
instrument in
my collection . . .

Stan
w7ni@...

Don Black wrote:

Yes, please tell us about the "Bait Hole".
I've got visions of one of those little Tektronix cartoons of a plugin

sitting on

the ice with a little technician fishing through the hole.
But perhaps I'm just a little weird.
Don Black.

"Phil (VA3UX)" wrote:

At 11:50 AM 11/19/2001 -0800, you wrote:

Hi Mike,

I agree that the Hickok, LaVoie, and Jetronic instruments have some

historic

There are other chapters to this story about what evidence Tek

provided at the

trial that might be interesting to some of you.

Tell them about the "bait" plug-in : the one with the special hole

drilled

in the chassis.

Phil

Stan
w7ni@...

mwcpc7@... wrote:

In a message dated 11/18/2001 5:28:56 PM Eastern Standard Time,
w7ni@... writes:

The main reason that the lawsuit between the U.S. Government and

Tektronix

took so long is that it was the first time in U.S. History that

a private

company (Tek) ever took the U.S.Government to court for patent

infringement.

There were no precidents and no one knew exactly how to

proceed. The

Government's position was that since they had ISSUED the

patents to

Tek in

the first place, they could rescind them any time they wanted

to. Tek

challenged that concept and it took 20 years to resolve it. In

the mean

time,

2 of the three companies that did the copying of Tek

instruments (with

Government approval) went bankrupt (LaVoie
and Jetronic) so there was nothing for Tek to collect from

them. The U.S.

Government and Hickok were left to pay the damages, which, by the

way, did

not even come close to covering the attorny costs, much less

any real

damage

done to Tek.

I have one of the Hickok 545s and was quite surprised to see it

at a

Hamfest.

I was originally going to use it just for parts, but the very

interesting

discussion here makes me think that it has some historical

interest.

Mike Csontos


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---------------------------------
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I guess, a lot of employees did not hold books dear, there is a number of them on used market. Some of the books were described as 'Soft Bound'; I wander if those are reprints for customer giveaways, which appeared after exhausting initial stock.

David DiGiacomo gave me address of a place which syndicates used book retailers. The book, 1st edition, was available for around $10 and I bought it.

Regards

Miroslav Pokorni

"Phil (VA3UX)" <phil@...> wrote: At 02:30 PM 12/17/2001 -0800, you wrote:

I was wandering if book published for Tek's 40th anniversary is available
for sale and where there any other history books published after and
before 40th.

I got mine from a retired Tek employee here in Canada. As far as I could
gather, the books were distributed only to Tek employees during Tek's 40th
anniversary, and were never published or sold to the public. They may also
have been avaiIable as "sales giveaways" to Tek customers but I'm not sure
about that. I have seen them for sale on eBay.

If you are smitten with Tektronix, it's a fabulous book to read.

Stan : are you up to copying that one for a CD ?

Phil

"Phil (VA3UX)" <phil@...> wrote: At 12:14 PM 11/20/2001 -0800,
you wrote:

Hi Don,

This story probably falls in the category of "Tek Legends" but that does
not mean it
is not true. If asked to prove it . . . I could not . . .

It is apparently quite true Stan, assuming Marshall Lee did a thorough job
of researching Tek's history for Tek's 40th anniversary book. It's on page
241. The bogus "D" holes were prompted by an order (to Tektronix) for two
plug-ins from a company that was a subcontractor to Hickok. The order
apparently had the words "Hickok Job" somewhere on the order form, which
was enough to raise plenty of suspicion and get them planning a trap (the
"D" holes).

Phil

Tek had a pretty good idea what was going to happen when they lost the
Goverment bids
for Tek scopes. They knew who the competing companies were and that
copying was very
likely to take place as there really wasn't an easy way to get around
Tek's patents
and still meet the Government specs for scopes. Tek was on the lookout for
suspicious orders that would be placed with them for instruments that
would serve as
the copy samples.

When a suspicous order was found, Tek rigged a special instrument with an
extra hole
in the chassis with no special purpose other than to make it a unique
instrument and
shipped that instrument to satisfy the order. Sure enough, that very hole
showed up
in the copies. In court, Tek asked the defending companies to explain the
purpose of
the hole and, of course, there was no explaination. Tek, however, had a
very good
explaination, with documents to prove it . . . I don't remember whether
this now
famous hole was in a scope or a plugin. Boy, would I like to have THAT
instrument in
my collection . . .

Stan
w7ni@...

Don Black wrote:

Yes, please tell us about the "Bait Hole".
I've got visions of one of those little Tektronix cartoons of a plugin

sitting on

the ice with a little technician fishing through the hole.
But perhaps I'm just a little weird.
Don Black.

"Phil (VA3UX)" wrote:

At 11:50 AM 11/19/2001 -0800, you wrote:

Hi Mike,

I agree that the Hickok, LaVoie, and Jetronic instruments have some

historic

There are other chapters to this story about what evidence Tek

provided at the

trial that might be interesting to some of you.

Tell them about the "bait" plug-in : the one with the special hole

drilled

in the chassis.

Phil

Stan
w7ni@...

mwcpc7@... wrote:

In a message dated 11/18/2001 5:28:56 PM Eastern Standard Time,
w7ni@... writes:

The main reason that the lawsuit between the U.S. Government and

Tektronix

took so long is that it was the first time in U.S. History that

a private

company (Tek) ever took the U.S.Government to court for patent

infringement.

There were no precidents and no one knew exactly how to

proceed. The

Government's position was that since they had ISSUED the

patents to

Tek in

the first place, they could rescind them any time they wanted

to. Tek

challenged that concept and it took 20 years to resolve it. In

the mean

time,

2 of the three companies that did the copying of Tek

instruments (with

Government approval) went bankrupt (LaVoie
and Jetronic) so there was nothing for Tek to collect from

them. The U.S.

Government and Hickok were left to pay the damages, which, by the

way, did

not even come close to covering the attorny costs, much less

any real

damage

done to Tek.

I have one of the Hickok 545s and was quite surprised to see it

at a

Hamfest.

I was originally going to use it just for parts, but the very

interesting

discussion here makes me think that it has some historical

interest.

Mike Csontos


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If you worked at Tek during the 'good' years (say the late 60's) as I
did, you know how much the company changed since then, often in ways
that made it a much less pleasant and rewarding place to work. In
light of the diminished respect for individual contributors at Tek,
the book seems very hypocritical. That is why I don't think much of
it. Perhaps other ex-Tek employees would agree, but I don't want to
speak for them.

- Bill Den Beste
Tek 1968 - 1979

On Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 06:06:47PM -0500, Phil (VA3UX) wrote:

I was wandering if book published for Tek's 40th anniversary is available
for sale and where there any other history books published after and
before 40th.

I don't think any have been published since the 40th.

I got mine from a retired Tek employee here in Canada. As far as I could
gather, the books were distributed only to Tek employees during Tek's 40th
anniversary, and were never published or sold to the public. They may also
have been avaiIable as "sales giveaways" to Tek customers but I'm not sure
about that. I have seen them for sale on eBay.
If you are smitten with Tektronix, it's a fabulous book to read.

Yes, each Sales guy was given a copy of the book, and then was able to
order more to give away to his favorite customers. I ordered a whole
box of them, and recently discovered two batches of five still
shrink-wrapped hidden away in the back corner of my library. I started
listing them on ebay, with a $9.99 starting price, and sold them all in
a few months. They were all soft-covered and colored a very dark blue, to
the best of my knowledge. (I have been retired since 1997, after 28 1/2 yrs.)
You might set up a search so ebay can notify you if "Tektronix Book:
First 40" shows up.

--
Ray Menke

I think, I can understand where Bill is coming from, though, I never worked for any company during 'good' years; somehow I always caught trailing edge. I would guess that 慻ood� years for Tektronix were between beginning and early 70抯.

Diminished respect (and recognition) of individuals go together with increase in company size, why else people would work for a small company. I know a thing or two about that, I worked for small companies over past 25 years and only thing that I have to show is occasional slap on the back and a handshake with 慴ig guy�. That makes for nice memories but does not produce any retirement pay.

The book might appear hypocritical because you know what was going on in the company before and after publication. Perhaps, the book have been started with intent to rekindle old spirit and revive 慜ld Tek�. However, the accountants seem to have carried the day, so book was published, but things went on in the old ways.

Regards

Miroslav Pokorni

billd1049 <billd1049@...> wrote: If you worked at Tek during the 'good' years (say the late 60's) as I
did, you know how much the company changed since then, often in ways
that made it a much less pleasant and rewarding place to work. In
light of the diminished respect for individual contributors at Tek,
the book seems very hypocritical. That is why I don't think much of
it. Perhaps other ex-Tek employees would agree, but I don't want to
speak for them.

- Bill Den Beste
Tek 1968 - 1979




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This is well put, Bill. My thoughts as I read it for the first time were that it seemed to dwell
on "politically correct" issues a lot, like answers to why Tek located a manufacturing plant on
the Island of Guernsey instead of somewhere else in Europe, instead of why Tek did not abandon
bi-stable storage in favor of refreshed screen computer terminals in a timely manner. Of course
this last item was a major Tek "goof" which is why you don't read about it in that book. I think
a good history book would include some goofs as well as successes. Too much time spent on
managers and not enough on the many brilliant engineers that Tek had working for them during the
first 40 years.

Stan
w7ni@...

billd1049 wrote:

light of the diminished respect for individual contributors at Tek,
the book seems very hypocritical. That is why I don't think much of
it. Perhaps other ex-Tek employees would agree, but I don't want to
speak for them.

- Bill Den Beste
Tek 1968 - 1979

I tried to read my copy once. Couldn't finish.
It was too sanitized. It said exactly what management
wanted it to say, namely, good things about managers.
Yawn. I wanted engineering stuff and true stories.
I get both here :-)

Waiting for "Case Histories in the Evolution of Scope Design",
Dave Wise
Tek 1980-1993

Hello David,

Waiting for "Case Histories in the Evolution of Scope Design"

I'd be interested too. But in the meantime, there are some interesting
chapters in a couple of books edited by Jim Williams: 'Analog Circuit Design
: Art, Science and Personalities' and 'The Art and Science of Analog Circuit
Design'. There is a chapter by John Addis on the history of vertical
amplifier design, another by Carl Nelson on T coil peaking, and another
chapter by a Hewlett Packard engineer (whose name I can't remember) on the
attenuator / front end design for a vertical input channel on an HP DSO.
Apart from the 'scope related stuff, these books are a great read on analog
design in general. But perhaps you've already got them . . .

Regards,
David Ashby

From: Dave Ashby [mailto:dashby@...]

Waiting for "Case Histories in the Evolution of Scope Design"

I'd be interested too. But in the meantime, there are some

Thanks for the pointers, Dave! If I can find these, they
ought to get me bouncing in my seat :-) Actually, there
is something out there that's close to an engineering
analysis, but it mostly covers one model (the 545), so there's
little evolutionary material. Sorry, I forget the title
(it contains "Oscilloscope" of course),
but it was published by Tektronix, and the public library
in my city (Portland Oregon) has a copy. Some of the
Tek "Concepts" books probably have stuff along these lines
too, but I haven't had a chance to find and read them.

By the way, I hope you all understand that "Case Histories..."
is a fictitious title. I made it up. It doesn't exist;
I just wish it did. It would be a companion volume to the
content of this list :-)

Regards,
Dave Wise

The Book David Wise is referring to regarding the 545A is called "Typical
Oscilloscope Circuitry" copyright 1961 by Tektronix, Inc. It is hardcover and
carries the Tek part number 070-253 (under the old part numbering system).
No author is credited. I don't know where any copies of this book are
available at this time.

Stan
w7ni@...

David Wise wrote: