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496P Scams on eBay
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Dennis Tillman
HEADS UP!
There have been a number of eBay auctions lately for Tek 496P spectrum Analyzers. The auctions show a working SA screen. The instrument looks in remarkably good shape. The starting bid is exceptionally low (under $100) and the sellers all see legitimate as far as I can tell. I cannot see anything wrong with these auctions. BUT eBay has pulled several of them. No explanation given. The latest one was by a seller called 'shockguys'. They have a feedback of 211, 99.5% positive, a Power Seller rating, and a top 10,000 reviewer rating. I can't figure out how anybody could have reviewed 10,000 things and only sold 200+ so I looked more carefully into this. I checked out their Internet web page (www.shockguys.com) and it is legitimate as far as I could tell (but they sell shock absorbers!). The shockguys logo on the eBay auction matches the logo on the web home page. All in all, I decided to bid because they took PayPal. Another odd thing, it was a 24 hour listing. Still another odd thing, they had a Bridgeport Milling Machine, also listed at $99 and also a 24 hour auction listing. But even better the listing said FREE SHIPPING in several places! A Bridgeport Mill weighs 2000 pounds if it weighs an ounce. I couldn't resist bidding on the 496 and the mill because if it turned out to be a real auction and I didn't bid I would be kicking myself for ever. I couldn't wait to find out how they were goiing to ship a 2000 pound milling machine from Florida to me in Seattle for free. That alone would have been worth winning the auction. I just got a notice from eBay that both auctions were yanked and that the seller was also terminated. The auction # are 330080698983 (TEK 494P SPECTRUM ANALYZER), and 330080703860 (BRIDGEPORT VARI MILL KURT DRAWBAR,VISE 3 FEEDS NEW D). My best guess is that who ever is behind this has figured out a way to create a fake eBay ID, fake eBay feedback ratings, fake everything else. Anybody else notice these auctions or have any explanation for what is going on? Dennis Tillman Silicon Designs, Inc. 1445 NW Mall Street Issaquah, WA 98027-5344 dennis@... www.silicondesigns.com 425-391-8329 Voice 425-391-4077 FAX |
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Lars Ahlstr?m
No, eBay is pretty quick to yank them.
But I have seen a lot of chinese stuff, as I think everybody else has. Especially the Wavetek calibrator. It showed up hundreds of times, often 10 at a time, and the seller had none or a couple of feedbacks. Location China and always different names like ¡°jxprt¡±, also in their feedback. No mail answers. I wonder how someone have time with that. Then I have been called idiot many times, when I tried to explain to sellers of the high voltage probe P6015, that they need to fill it with CFC in order to do 40kV measures. Stuff aint around no more¡ =) I have only been out for problem 3 times. One sold me an 1934 tube tester where the needle was gone. ¡°I have no idea how these things work¡¡± I got the money back, but I had to pay the expensive shipping so it was cheaper for me to keep it. Now I have a lot of needle instruments in store, and will replace it keeping the old scale. The second one is not a scam, but a lazy seller. Package gone¡ Refuse to answer mails nor make a claim for me. ¡°Liquidation Store¡±¡ I just need them to go to their postoffice with the receipt they got. They wont. The thir came with surface, a Pace PCB holder, took like 8 weeks, went with bus, train, camel caravan, boat, running bum, and our post. And on the postoffice here locally, it ended up in a burglary. They broke in to the post office and stole my PCB holder!!! I got the money back =) I was regretting that deal anyways =) Three of 78 otherwise very good deals, I think its pretty okay. /Lars -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fr?n: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...] F?r Dennis Tillman Skickat: den 25 januari 2007 23:25 Till: 'tekscopes' ?mne: [TekScopes] 496P Scams on eBay HEADS UP! There have been a number of eBay auctions lately for Tek 496P spectrum Analyzers. The auctions show a working SA screen. The instrument looks in remarkably good shape. The starting bid is exceptionally low (under $100) and the sellers all see legitimate as far as I can tell. I cannot see anything wrong with these auctions. BUT eBay has pulled several of them. No explanation given. The latest one was by a seller called 'shockguys'. They have a feedback of 211, 99.5% positive, a Power Seller rating, and a top 10,000 reviewer rating. I can't figure out how anybody could have reviewed 10,000 things and only sold 200+ so I looked more carefully into this. I checked out their Internet web page (www.shockguys.com) and it is legitimate as far as I could tell (but they sell shock absorbers!). The shockguys logo on the eBay auction matches the logo on the web home page. All in all, I decided to bid because they took PayPal. Another odd thing, it was a 24 hour listing. Still another odd thing, they had a Bridgeport Milling Machine, also listed at $99 and also a 24 hour auction listing. But even better the listing said FREE SHIPPING in several places! A Bridgeport Mill weighs 2000 pounds if it weighs an ounce. I couldn't resist bidding on the 496 and the mill because if it turned out to be a real auction and I didn't bid I would be kicking myself for ever. I couldn't wait to find out how they were goiing to ship a 2000 pound milling machine from Florida to me in Seattle for free. That alone would have been worth winning the auction. I just got a notice from eBay that both auctions were yanked and that the seller was also terminated. The auction # are 330080698983 (TEK 494P SPECTRUM ANALYZER), and 330080703860 (BRIDGEPORT VARI MILL KURT DRAWBAR,VISE 3 FEEDS NEW D). My best guess is that who ever is behind this has figured out a way to create a fake eBay ID, fake eBay feedback ratings, fake everything else. Anybody else notice these auctions or have any explanation for what is going on? Dennis Tillman Silicon Designs, Inc. 1445 NW Mall Street Issaquah, WA 98027-5344 dennis@silicondesig <mailto:dennis%40silicondesigns.com> ns.com www.silicondesigns.com 425-391-8329 Voice 425-391-4077 FAX [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Johnny Chapman
I will have been watching the Tektronix, Tek, and
Sound Measurement Groups of listings for a while. You are correct in these too good to be trues. I myself am wondering how it is done. If you notice, there are always those same exact listings, maybe ten or so that are at the top of the list EVERYDAY! Recently, I've seen others in the Sound Measurement group that have been advertising Neutrik A-1 or A-2s, can't remember; anyway, they always are the one day runs and most of the time wanting you to make a phone call or reply to another email. My assumption is that they are hijacking accounts. I've recently sold, but not received payment or shipped, a lovely Sencore SG80. The bidder was from Bulgaria; he called and everything. His website was awesome! I don't believe they have PayPal in the Baltic States and was warned to beware. Turns out that he wanted to make a wire transfer. Hmmmmm, account info. Well, he called again after not responding to my specific requests. Come to think of it, my buddy and former employer was also the subject of a scam. He called me to take over. I took over his email account for a few days and made some very reasonable requests, only to get the same type of response the other guy! This time, it was an almost too good to be true. The guy sounded like he needed the money; I can relate; so the price was a great bargain, but no steal. He even forged DHL documentation! Anyway, same ole, same ole, just repeating the same emails and such and not wanting to speak person to person. Last night, when looking over some new business on his email account, we just happened to look over all the discourse. My buddy laughed and was relieved. Hey, protect yourselves. If its just tooooo goooood..., then as the saying goes, It probably IS! Take care group and stay away from the garbadge dealers (another type) and the unscrupulous dealers! See you guys later. Seeya later. Heck, just Slater. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. |
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A bridgeport mill with free shipping would be the deal of a lifetime!!!!!!!!!!! My own mill was only $200; not bridgeport and came from 2 blocks away (it came with a pallet jack and many locals, including the police, watched us pulling it down the street...) 680 lbs of fun! (not including the table I built for it)
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-Dave -------------- Original message --------------
From: "Dennis Tillman" <Dennis@...> HEADS UP! There have been a number of eBay auctions lately for Tek 496P spectrum Analyzers. The auctions show a working SA screen. The instrument looks in remarkably good shape. The starting bid is exceptionally low (under $100) and the sellers all see legitimate as far as I can tell. I cannot see anything wrong with these auctions. BUT eBay has pulled several of them. No explanation given. The latest one was by a seller called 'shockguys'. They have a feedback of 211, 99.5% positive, a Power Seller rating, and a top 10,000 reviewer rating. I can't figure out how anybody could have reviewed 10,000 things and only sold 200+ so I looked more carefully into this. I checked out their Internet web page (www.shockguys.com) and it is legitimate as far as I could tell (but they sell shock absorbers!). The shockguys logo on the eBay auction matches the logo on the web home page. All in all, I decided to bid because they took PayPal. Another odd thing, it was a 24 hour listing. Still another odd thing, they had a Bridgeport Milling Machine, also listed at $99 and also a 24 hour auction listing. But even better the listing said FREE SHIPPING in several places! A Bridgeport Mill weighs 2000 pounds if it weighs an ounce. I couldn't resist bidding on the 496 and the mill because if it turned out to be a real auction and I didn't bid I would be kicking myself for ever. I couldn't wait to find out how they were goiing to ship a 2000 pound milling machine from Florida to me in Seattle for free. That alone would have been worth winning the auction. I just got a notice from eBay that both auctions were yanked and that the seller was also terminated. The auction # are 330080698983 (TEK 494P SPECTRUM ANALYZER), and 330080703860 (BRIDGEPORT VARI MILL KURT DRAWBAR,VISE 3 FEEDS NEW D). My best guess is that who ever is behind this has figured out a way to create a fake eBay ID, fake eBay feedback ratings, fake everything else. Anybody else notice these auctions or have any explanation for what is going on? Dennis Tillman Silicon Designs, Inc. 1445 NW Mall Street Issaquah, WA 98027-5344 dennis@... www.silicondesigns.com 425-391-8329 Voice 425-391-4077 FAX |
My best guess is that who ever is behind this has figured out a way toNo, that's not possible. They guess or phish the password of an eBay account that has positive feedback, but has been inactive for a while. P.S. If you see more of these, you can use the "Report this item" link to report them as fraudulent, and they will be taken down pretty quickly. |
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John Miles
They actually don't have to fake anything. You are seeing the other end of
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the phishing pipeline that starts with all of those "Please click here to respond to your urgent message on eBay!!!11!" emails that you get. As soon as some gullible type enters their login credentials on a phishing page, the page launches a script that automatically and instantly lists eight gazillion high-end items using copies of previous legitimate auctions, each of which have been altered to include the phisher's direct email address for the "buy it now" option. Hit "View Seller's Other Items" and you'll spot the clue. You can use the "Report this item" link at the bottom of the page -> Fraudulent listings -> You suspect that a listing is fraudulent -> Contact Customer Support to report these. -- john, KE5FX -----Original Message-----
My best guess is that who ever is behind this has figured out a way to create a fake eBay ID, fake eBay feedback ratings, fake everything else. Anybody else notice these auctions or have any explanation for what is going on? Dennis Tillman Silicon Designs, Inc. 1445 NW Mall Street Issaquah, WA 98027-5344 dennis@... www.silicondesigns.com 425-391-8329 Voice 425-391-4077 FAX |
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Jose V. Gavila
Hi Dennis and all List members,
Well, not in this case but I was taken once by a similar listing... I saw the listing with just minutes to go and bid... and won... and never got anything! I investigated quite a bit (after losing 550 Euro!) and found some common things which should make anyone wary about some eBay listings: *1 day auction!. There are really few of these. Why anybody would list an expensive item for just 1 day?. They do it that way to prevent too many people looking at it and finding the scam. Also, sometimes they hijack an account (not too hard as some people use very simple passwords) so it is important to do a 'fast work'. *Selling something completely unrelated with previous buyings and sellings. Check feedback and verify this kind of 'anomalies'. *Having feedback just for cheap items. Some people builds a 100% positive feedback (20-30 comments) with cheap things and then do the fraudulent listing. I have seen quite a bit of them! *Lots of feedback from people located in same region... AND with eBay registering dates suspiciously close. It is worth checking. *And, of course, disregard any 'second chance offer' of bargain items! I am sure forget some other 'hints' but hope these will help to prevent some frauds. Regards, JOSE (who is buying and selling at eBay since January 1997 and has been taken 'just' a couple times) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 73 EB5AGV / EC5AAU - JOSE V. GAVILA La Canyada - Valencia (SPAIN) - Loc: IM99SM Vintage Radio: Vintage Test Equipment: European Boatanchors List: |
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Craig Sawyers
The latest one was by a seller called 'shockguys'. They haveThis is a standard phishing attack. Someone at shockguys (who only sell shock absorbers) was foolish enough to respond to one of those mails that look as if they came from eBay, and enter their password. Usually this sort of thing is run by Russian or Chinese maffia. They then blitz eBay with lots of high ticket items, like spectrum analyzers or high end audio equipment. Often it is payment by wire transfer, so once the money is paid it is goodbye dollars. As to what a 10,000 reviewer is, it is a seller that is in the top 10,000 sellers regarding feedback rating - nothing to do with how much they have sold. Craig |
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Dennis Tillman wrote:
HEADS UP!<Snip details about apparent scams> I've noticed similar things going on with some high-end photo gear. In this case, the sellers always have very high ratings, and post a 24-hour auction. Here's the suspicious bit - the text of the auctions always gave a direct email address for contact and said the item would not be sold through bidding, only through Buy-It-Now (which was not an option in the actual auction listing!) and gave the price. It turns out these are hijacked accounts. I think one of the many viruses and malware bits out there (thank you, Bill Gates) is a keystroke logger that's being used to find good accounts. Or perhaps the guy sits in Internet cafes and sniffs for open wireless traffic. Whatever. eBay shuts them down if you report them. Bottom line - if it seems to good to be true, well, you know... Steve |
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Sounds like a guy I won a spectrum analyser from in the Ilse of Man.
Price was really really good. He wanted payment by wire transfer. He couldn't talk on the phone because of an illness. He produced ebay documentation that appeared to be fraudulent / too good to be true, claiming he was a massive trader and ebay held a cash bond for him. So I telephoned the fraud department on the Ilse of Man and made a deal with them. If they visited his house and the goods were there I would be happy to pay the fraud officer for his time, plus the goods value. If the goods were not there they had caught a fraudster. The seller must have been quite shocked when they put the cuffs on. However if you are the seller on Ebay, the most secure way you can receive payment is by wire transfer. We do this all the time selling goods all around the world. They cannot pull money out of your account without your approval. If they forge documents that the bank mistakably accepts, the bank is liable, though they will try to tell you otherwise. Even when you are transferred the money, if the sender says it was a mistake, once it has shown on your account, your bank must contact you first before they can refund it. Also with new banking laws and problems with money laundering and the terrorist groups, you need to use a Iban international banking identity number for the transfer, these should all be in place in just about every bank by now, though a few are lacking for instance in Switzerland, Spain, and the Costa Del Sol amongst a few others I am sure. Regs Mark Dr. Mark Vaughan Ph'D. B.Eng. M0VAU Managing Director Vaughan Industries Ltd, reg in UK no 2561068 Water Care Technology Ltd, reg in UK no 4129351 Addr Unit3, Sydney House, Blackwater, Truro, Cornwall, TR4 8HH, UK. Phone/Fax 44 1872 561288 _____ From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...] On Behalf Of Johnny Chapman Sent: 26 January 2007 07:04 To: Tekscopes Subject: Re: [TekScopes] 496P Scams on eBay I will have been watching the Tektronix, Tek, and Sound Measurement Groups of listings for a while. You are correct in these too good to be trues. I myself am wondering how it is done. If you notice, there are always those same exact listings, maybe ten or so that are at the top of the list EVERYDAY! Recently, I've seen others in the Sound Measurement group that have been advertising Neutrik A-1 or A-2s, can't remember; anyway, they always are the one day runs and most of the time wanting you to make a phone call or reply to another email. My assumption is that they are hijacking accounts. I've recently sold, but not received payment or shipped, a lovely Sencore SG80. The bidder was from Bulgaria; he called and everything. His website was awesome! I don't believe they have PayPal in the Baltic States and was warned to beware. Turns out that he wanted to make a wire transfer. Hmmmmm, account info. Well, he called again after not responding to my specific requests. Come to think of it, my buddy and former employer was also the subject of a scam. He called me to take over. I took over his email account for a few days and made some very reasonable requests, only to get the same type of response the other guy! This time, it was an almost too good to be true. The guy sounded like he needed the money; I can relate; so the price was a great bargain, but no steal. He even forged DHL documentation! Anyway, same ole, same ole, just repeating the same emails and such and not wanting to speak person to person. Last night, when looking over some new business on his email account, we just happened to look over all the discourse. My buddy laughed and was relieved. Hey, protect yourselves. If its just tooooo goooood..., then as the saying goes, It probably IS! Take care group and stay away from the garbadge dealers (another type) and the unscrupulous dealers! See you guys later. Seeya later. Heck, just Slater. __________________________________________________________ Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. . <> yahoo.com/new_cars.html |
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Greg_A
the only "mechanism to keep you safe" dealing on Ebay is your own credit
card/PayPal account - both they could reverse payment later from merchant (a seller) after your inquiry not getting the item on time. As I know this process it's called a dispute, and your credit card payment could be reversed. Greg At 09:25 AM 1/26/07 +0100, Jose V. Gavila wrote: the listing with just minutes to go and bid... and won... and never gotanything! do a 'fast work'.taken 'just' a couple times) Emacs! |
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Didier Juges
You may want to look at these pages.
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These were all eBay auctions from what looked like sellers with good feedback. I am sure you can find one or more common thread. I forwarded these links to ebay a couple of times, and while these still show up on occasion, they are usually pulled within an hour or so. I invite you to do the same for those instruments you find. eBay does listen. Didier KO4BB Dennis Tillman wrote: HEADS UP! |
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Stefan Trethan
I must say i'm far more annoyed by just "bad" sellers than outright scams, i can avoid those more easily.
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But some sellers are just incompetent nasty people, with which i would not deal had i known before. For example really bad packaging, or forgetting parts and acting as if it was not their fault really gets me annoyed, as well as deliberately misleading descriptions or hiding known faults. If it isn't worth your time to sell something _properly_, with a minimum standard of service and attention to what you are doing, then you shouldn't be selling the thing at all, or you should put it up with a price that is worth your while. I'm currently dealing with a seller who forgot the handle of a bench instrument (shown in the picture). Very annoying, takes several days to reply to a message with a one-line all capitals response. You probably know the sort. Packaging consisted of a stack of old junk mail thrown into a box with the instrument, only a few were actually bunched up the rest of the stack was just thrown in for added weight or maybe he wanted to get rid of them. Probably a good thing he forgot the handle or it would've been broken anyway. Oh well, you get good ones and you get bad ones. I just wish the feedback system wouldn't be so totally inept at telling you beforehand what you get. ST On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 08:04:03 +0100, Johnny Chapman <jones_chap@...> wrote:
I will have been watching the Tektronix, Tek, and |
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Craig Sawyers
As soonI am *very* savvy about the phishing scams, and even I made a mistake some months ago. Late at night, brain not engaged, a beer or two too many. About a nanosecond later I had a cold sweat, realising what I'd done, and immediately changed my eBay password. I was quick enough to do this that there was no opportunity for the scam merchants to act. Craig |
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Hare, Ed W1RFI
In my experience, eBay is good about removing fraudulent listings, especially where the seller offers to sell stuff outside the eBay site. So report fraudlent sellers. I had a Rhode and Schwarz listing removed within hours. The seller had a $500 starting bid on a $15k spectrum analyzer, and listed it as being in West Hartford, CT. When I asked him if we could pick it up there, as West Hartford is a nearby town, it was really located in Miami, and if I wanted, I could buy it for $3000 right now and he would cancel the auction.
However, eBay is not good at dealing with sellers who do sell through their site, in my experience. Despite all of their puffery, when push comes to shove, eBay falls back on the "we are like a newspaper and can't do anything about sellers who won't complete transactions." They are pulling that stuff on me right now with respect to one of eBay's power sellers. They said they had taken action, yet the SOB keeps selling other stuff and still won't complete the transaction. He didn't like the fact that I was going to give him a negative feedback for having auctioned an item he didn't actually have, so he said he would refund my money and cancel the transaction. He did both, and I am still pursuing this through eBay. 73, Ed Hare, W1RFI ARRL Laboratory Manager 225 Main St Newington, CT 06111 Tel: 860-594-0318 Email: W1RFI@... ________________________________ From: TekScopes@... on behalf of John Miles Sent: Fri 1/26/2007 2:59 AM To: 'tekscopes' Subject: RE: [TekScopes] 496P Scams on eBay They actually don't have to fake anything. You are seeing the other end of the phishing pipeline that starts with all of those "Please click here to respond to your urgent message on eBay!!!11!" emails that you get. As soon as some gullible type enters their login credentials on a phishing page, the page launches a script that automatically and instantly lists eight gazillion high-end items using copies of previous legitimate auctions, each of which have been altered to include the phisher's direct email address for the "buy it now" option. Hit "View Seller's Other Items" and you'll spot the clue. You can use the "Report this item" link at the bottom of the page -> Fraudulent listings -> You suspect that a listing is fraudulent -> Contact Customer Support to report these. -- john, KE5FX -----Original Message----- My best guess is that who ever is behind this has figured out a way to create a fake eBay ID, fake eBay feedback ratings, fake everything else. Anybody else notice these auctions or have any explanation for what is going on? Dennis Tillman Silicon Designs, Inc. 1445 NW Mall Street Issaquah, WA 98027-5344 dennis@... <mailto:dennis%40silicondesigns.com> www.silicondesigns.com 425-391-8329 Voice 425-391-4077 FAX |
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Chuck Harris
d.seiter@... wrote:
A bridgeport mill with free shipping would be the deal of a lifetime!!!!!!!!!!! My own mill was only $200; notGawd Dave, you were lucky.... lucky you didn't kill yourself, that is! I don't know the circumstances of your mill moving adventure, but from many years of experience moving heavy stuff I do know this: Pallet jacks are made for one thing, and one thing only, and that is moving short loads, attached to pallets on smooth perfectly flat floors. Mills are tall, top heavy, and prone to tipping in the best of circumstances. They are always bolted to the floor in a factory setting, as they can tip over if the bed is run all the way to one side when a heavy vise is mounted (Bridgeports are especially prone to this!) I watched in horror as an equipment dealer moved a Bridgeport on a pallet jack, without a pallet, and the jack did it's usual "shoulder roll" and dumped the mill. The fool tried to stop it from tipping, and it smacked him upside the head on its way over. It raised a bump on the side of his noggin the size of a football. I never saw that dealer ever again. When you win that swell deal, and decide to skimp on the moving costs, consider how much it will cost you if it dumps over. Consider how much it will cost when you are out of work for a year after being crushed a little bit. Consider that a misadventure moving a mill can kill you without the mill even slowing down. As far as I know, Dave, you did everything in a well thought out fail safe manner, but I would sure hate for someone less experienced than you to try your technique and get hurt. -Chuck Harris |
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Hare, Ed W1RFI
The eBay feedback system is clearly skewed in favor of the seller. After
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I told him that I was going to give him a negative feedback for auctioning an item that he wouldn't have for 6-8 weeks, in his mind, he canceled the transaction and said he didn't want me as a customer any longer. If sellers are allowed to punish those that give negative feedbacks, that very clearly will result in a high percentage of positive feedbacks. The policy at eBay is that sellers can cancel bids of anyone they don't want to sell to. In his case, if he has the item in stock, things seem to go well, but I simply don't believe that sellers should be allowed to auction things they don't actually have. It was clear from eBay's responses to me so far that they really don't care. Ed Hare, W1RFI ARRL Laboratory Manager 225 Main St Newington, CT 06111 Tel: 860-594-0318 Internet: W1RFI@... Web: Member: ASC C63 EMC Committee Chairman: Subcommittee 5, Immunity Chairman: Ad hoc BPL Working Group Member: IEEE P1775 BPL EMC Committee Member: IEEE, Standards Association, Electromagnetic Compatibility Society Member: ICES SCC-28 RF Safety Member/Secretary: IEEE EMC Society Standards Development Committee Chairman, BPL Study Project Member: Society of Automotive Engineers EMC/EMR Committee Board of Directors: QRP Amateur Radio Club International -----Original Message----- |
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Yes, the ebay feedback system cannot work as long as buyers with bad experience are afraid of revenge feedback.
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Most buyers don't understand that one or the other revenge feedback doesn't matter for them, unless they are really always looking for trouble. But for the majority of buyers this conclusion seems to be difficult to arrive at. They want to be "100 % positive" and make the system fail. And nobody can expect ebay to advertise negative feedbacks. Stefan Trethan wrote: I must say i'm far more annoyed by just "bad" sellers than outright scams, i can avoid those more easily. |
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J Forster
Chuck wrote:
Gawd Dave, you were lucky.... lucky you didn't kill yourself, that is! [snip] As far as I know, Dave, you did everything in a well thought out fail safe manner, but I would sure hate for someone less experienced than you to try your technique and get hurt. -Chuck Harris Even if you are very smart and experienced, you likely cannot always think of everything than can go wrong. I've had a number of close calls over the years and, in retrospect, it should have been easy to foresee the problems. But it wasn't and I didn't. Moral: Think thrice, measure twice, cut once.... and Murphy STILL rules. FWIW, -John |
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Chuck-
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Yeah, I guess I should have added the "don't try this at home" clause, but I'm so used to doing everything myself... Here are the relevant points: This was a small mill, the kind you see in machinery catalogs for $800-$1200, and has a total height of about 4-5'. It was on a pallet, and the head had been lowered almost all the way so that the center of gravity was pretty low. The really difficult part was re-assembling the parts on a table after I had stripped and rebuilt everything. That was the scary part, even using a hoist! Don't try this at home boys and girls! -Dave -------------- Original message --------------
From: Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> d.seiter@... wrote: A bridgeport mill with free shipping would be the deal of a lifetime!!!!!!!!!!! My own mill was only $200; notGawd Dave, you were lucky.... lucky you didn't kill yourself, that is! I don't know the circumstances of your mill moving adventure, but from many years of experience moving heavy stuff I do know this: Pallet jacks are made for one thing, and one thing only, and that is moving short loads, attached to pallets on smooth perfectly flat floors. Mills are tall, top heavy, and prone to tipping in the best of circumstances. They are always bolted to the floor in a factory setting, as they can tip over if the bed is run all the way to one side when a heavy vise is mounted (Bridgeports are especially prone to this!) I watched in horror as an equipment dealer moved a Bridgeport on a pallet jack, without a pallet, and the jack did it's usual "shoulder roll" and dumped the mill. The fool tried to stop it from tipping, and it smacked him upside the head on its way over. It raised a bump on the side of his noggin the size of a football. I never saw that dealer ever again. When you win that swell deal, and decide to skimp on the moving costs, consider how much it will cost you if it dumps over. Consider how much it will cost when you are out of work for a year after being crushed a little bit. Consider that a misadventure moving a mill can kill you without the mill even slowing down. As far as I know, Dave, you did everything in a well thought out fail safe manner, but I would sure hate for someone less experienced than you to try your technique and get hurt. -Chuck Harris |
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