|
Back in 2013 Sergey Kubushyn posted a great explanation of how to build a clone of a Tektronix 067-0681 TD Pulser. It required a specific Russian surplus tunnel diode. While there are always a bunch of Russian tunnel diodes on eBay, the specific one he specified has been impossible for me to find. However, some just appeared on eBay. There is one group of 10 pcs still available and they are quite pricey compared to the other ones for sale at $80 USD for 10 pieces. The prices of the available pulsers make this look reasonable. However if there is anyone else as desperate as I have been to find some they are eBay item no. 323585650249. I hope this helps someone.
Jack Reynolds
|
Hi :
I cannot find such item on ebay ? What is the diode number ?
Thanks for your help
Regard
Tony Cheung
DEC 8 2018
--------------------------------------------
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Sat, 12/8/18, Jack Reynolds <jackandladyreynolds@...> wrote: Subject: [TekScopes] Russian Tunnel Diodes To: [email protected] Date: Saturday, December 8, 2018, 4:39 AM Back in 2013 Sergey Kubushyn posted a great explanation of how to build a clone of a Tektronix 067-0681 TD Pulser.? It required a specific Russian surplus tunnel diode.? While there are always a bunch of Russian tunnel diodes on eBay, the specific one he specified has been impossible for me to find.? However, some just appeared on eBay.? There is one group of 10 pcs still available and they are quite pricey compared to the other ones for sale at $80 USD for 10 pieces.? The prices of the available pulsers make this look reasonable.? However if there is anyone else as desperate as I have been to find some they are eBay item no. 323585650249.? I hope this helps someone. Jack Reynolds
|
On Sat, 8 Dec 2018, Yiu On Tony C via Groups.Io wrote: GI308D :) Mil spec variant is called 1I308D i.e. having number 1 instead of letter G for Germanium. That is true for all semiconductors made in former USSR. In cyrillic it is called §¤§ª308§¥ or 1§ª308§¥. GI308zH (§¤§ª308§¨ in cyrillic) is even faster having 20mA peak current instead of 10mA for GI308D with almost same capacitance 1..4pF vs 0.8..2pF for GI308D. And finally there is GI308K with 50mA peak current having 2.3..8pF capacitance that is similar to those used in Tektronix S-52. For the pulser built from 067-0681-01 schematic the proper part is GI308D that is actually much better than original Tektronix 152-0177-02 tunnel diode. Hi :
I cannot find such item on ebay ? What is the diode number ?
Thanks for your help
Regard
Tony Cheung
DEC 8 2018
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 12/8/18, Jack Reynolds <jackandladyreynolds@...> wrote:
Subject: [TekScopes] Russian Tunnel Diodes
To: [email protected]
Date: Saturday, December 8, 2018, 4:39 AM
Back in 2013 Sergey Kubushyn posted a great
explanation of how to build a clone of a Tektronix 067-0681
TD Pulser.? It required a specific Russian surplus
tunnel diode.? While there are always a bunch of
Russian tunnel diodes on eBay, the specific one he specified
has been impossible for me to find.? However, some just
appeared on eBay.? There is one group of 10 pcs still
available and they are quite pricey compared to the other
ones for sale at $80 USD for 10 pieces.? The prices of
the available pulsers make this look reasonable.?
However if there is anyone else as desperate as I have been
to find some they are eBay item no. 323585650249.? I
hope this helps someone.
Jack Reynolds --- * * KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. * * Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. * *
|
Hi Sergey Kubushyn:
Thanks for your reply and I try to find the posted ( is there any photos ? ) ,just message in group .
I will try to build it .
Regard
Tony Cheung
DEC 8 2018
--------------------------------------------
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Sat, 12/8/18, Sergey Kubushyn <ksi@...> wrote: Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Russian Tunnel Diodes To: [email protected] Date: Saturday, December 8, 2018, 12:47 PM On Sat, 8 Dec 2018, Yiu On Tony C via Groups.Io wrote: GI308D :) Mil spec variant is called 1I308D i.e. having number 1 instead of letter G for Germanium. That is true for all semiconductors made in former USSR. In cyrillic it is called §¤§ª308§¥ or 1§ª308§¥. GI308zH (§¤§ª308§¨ in cyrillic) is even faster having 20mA peak current instead of 10mA for GI308D with almost same capacitance 1..4pF vs 0.8..2pF for GI308D. And finally there is GI308K with 50mA peak current having 2.3..8pF capacitance that is similar to those used in Tektronix S-52. For the pulser built from 067-0681-01 schematic the proper part is GI308D that is actually much better than original Tektronix 152-0177-02 tunnel diode. > Hi : > > I cannot find such item on ebay ? What is the diode number ? > > Thanks for your help > > Regard > Tony Cheung > DEC 8 2018 > -------------------------------------------- > On Sat, 12/8/18, Jack Reynolds <jackandladyreynolds@...> wrote: > > Subject: [TekScopes] Russian Tunnel Diodes > To: [email protected] > Date: Saturday, December 8, 2018, 4:39 AM > > Back in 2013 Sergey Kubushyn posted a great > explanation of how to build a clone of a Tektronix 067-0681 > TD Pulser.? It required a specific Russian surplus > tunnel diode.? While there are always a bunch of > Russian tunnel diodes on eBay, the specific one he specified > has been impossible for me to find.? However, some just > appeared on eBay.? There is one group of 10 pcs still > available and they are quite pricey compared to the other > ones for sale at $80 USD for 10 pieces.? The prices of > the available pulsers make this look reasonable.? > However if there is anyone else as desperate as I have been > to find some they are eBay item no. 323585650249.? I > hope this helps someone. > Jack Reynolds --- * *? KSI@home? ? KOI8 Net? < >? The impossible we do immediately.? * *? Las Vegas? NV, USA? < >? Miracles require 24-hour notice.? * *
|
On Sat, 8 Dec 2018, Yiu On Tony C via Groups.Io wrote: There are photos in the group archives. Description somehow messed up during the transfer from Yahoo but all the photos seem to be still there. Or you can try to find them in abandoned Yahoo group if it still exists. Hi Sergey Kubushyn:
Thanks for your reply and I try to find the posted ( is there any photos ?
) ,just message in group .
I will try to build it .
Regard
Tony Cheung
DEC 8 2018
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 12/8/18, Sergey Kubushyn <ksi@...> wrote:
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Russian Tunnel Diodes
To: [email protected]
Date: Saturday, December 8, 2018, 12:47 PM
On Sat, 8 Dec 2018, Yiu On Tony C
via Groups.Io wrote:
GI308D
:) Mil spec variant is called 1I308D i.e. having number 1
instead of
letter G for Germanium. That is
true for all semiconductors made in former
USSR. In cyrillic it is called §¤§ª308§¥ or
1§ª308§¥. GI308zH (§¤§ª308§¨ in
cyrillic) is
even faster having 20mA peak current instead of 10mA for
GI308D
with almost same capacitance 1..4pF
vs 0.8..2pF for GI308D. And finally
there is
GI308K with 50mA peak current having 2.3..8pF capacitance
that is
similar to those used in Tektronix
S-52.
For the pulser built
from 067-0681-01 schematic the proper part is GI308D
that is actually much better than original
Tektronix 152-0177-02 tunnel
diode.
Hi :
I cannot find such item on ebay ? What is the diode number ?
Thanks for your
help
Regard
Tony Cheung
DEC 8
2018
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 12/8/18, Jack Reynolds <jackandladyreynolds@...> wrote:
Subject:
[TekScopes] Russian Tunnel Diodes
To: [email protected]
Date: Saturday, December 8, 2018, 4:39 AM
Back in 2013
Sergey Kubushyn posted a great
explanation of how to build a clone of a Tektronix
067-0681
TD Pulser.? It required a specific Russian surplus
tunnel diode.? While there are always a bunch of
Russian tunnel diodes on eBay, the specific one he specified
has been impossible for me to find.? However, some just
appeared on eBay.? There is one group of 10 pcs still
available and they are quite pricey compared to the other
ones for sale at $80 USD for 10 pieces.? The prices of
the available pulsers make this look reasonable.?
However if there is anyone else as desperate as I have been
to find some they are eBay item no. 323585650249.? I
hope this helps someone.
Jack Reynolds --- * * KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. * * Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. * *
|
There are photos in the group archives. Description somehow messed up during
the transfer from Yahoo but all the photos seem to be still there. Or you
can try to find them in abandoned Yahoo group if it still exists.
Hi Sergey Kubushyn:
Thanks for your reply and I try to find the posted ( is there any photos ?
) ,just message in group .
I will try to build it .
Regard
Tony Cheung
DEC 8 2018 I understand entirely the interest in building TD pulsers, and replicating/repairing Tek ones. But a bit of heresy - the Leo Bodnar pulsers produce 30ps rise, and around 24ps fall time. They come with a calibration certificate too. For UKP49 to UKP99 depending on the output connector. Run from USB power, from which you can adjust the amplitude from the app. They run at 10MHz with 2.5ppm accuracy, so can be used for timebase checks too. I have the BNC version, which is the cheapest. Craig
|
FWIW there's a very nice 40 pS rise time 10 MHz square wave pulser at leobodnar.com. The BNC version is about $80 US. Leo has just developed a variant that produces 100 pS spikes.
Not germane to making a repair, but if the goal is having a fast step generator it's hard to beat. Each one is individually tested and a printout of the step response provided. Mine actually has a 36 pS rise time. Leo also has them with 3.5 and 2.92 mm connectors spec'd at 30 pS.
I covered mine with a large piece of heat shrink for protection.
|
I haven't tried Leo's product, so take what I say with a grain of
salt, or two...
The only issue I have with Leo's product is that according to his
pictures, it doesn't have a very good flat top and bottom to the
pulse. The fast rise time is good for measuring the bandwidth of
the scope (which may be all he intended to do), but if you are
wanting to use his pulser to adjust the transient response of a
scope, you need a clean flat top on your test pulse.
Chuck Harris
Craig Sawyers wrote:
...
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I understand entirely the interest in building TD pulsers, and replicating/repairing Tek ones.
But a bit of heresy - the Leo Bodnar pulsers produce 30ps rise, and around 24ps fall time. They come
with a calibration certificate too. For UKP49 to UKP99 depending on the output connector. Run from USB
power, from which you can adjust the amplitude from the app. They run at 10MHz with 2.5ppm accuracy,
so can be used for timebase checks too. I have the BNC version, which is the cheapest.
Craig
|
The only issue I have with Leo's product is that according to his pictures, it doesn't have a very
good
flat top and bottom to the pulse. The fast rise time is good for measuring the bandwidth of the
scope
(which may be all he intended to do), but if you are wanting to use his pulser to adjust the
transient
response of a scope, you need a clean flat top on your test pulse.
Chuck Harris Depends on the response of the scope you are adjusting. 1GHz at 350ps rise is as far as I go without sampling plugins, so a couple of transient wobbles at ~15GHz at 3% p-p really doesn't matter. So has BNC version is just fine. Crau=ig
|
Consider the time scale on Leo's plots and the response of the scope he's using which is what you are seeing in the calibration plot. I can't find my plot right now as my bench is undergoing at upgrade and everything is a huge mess. But IIRC the entire length of the step response Leo provides is less than the sample rate of anything most of us are likely to own.
I have put the BNC version on a new MSOX3104T. 436 pS rise time and 7% overshoot. I discussed with Keysight support which confirmed what I was seeing. A 750 MHz low pass filter reduced the overshoot to well less than 1%. But I could not inline the filter.
I then had an RTM3104 on demo. It arrived with 350 pS rise time and 3% overshoot. If I applied a 1 GHz LPF I had no visible overshoot. I was ecstatic. But for some legal reason the K18 option is not available in North America and the available FFT was completely useless. It was suggested that I install the 1.300 FW update. After that it had 10% overshoot. Restoring 1.100 did not restore the original response.
I've looked at 4 other scopes with Leo's pulser. I have no doubt that the waveform I saw is the true step response of the instrument. Now if you have one of the new Keysight 256 GSa/S 111 GHz DSOs, you probably need a better signal source. I suspect it would require one to give an accurate picture of the step response of Leo's pulser.
There are a large number of plots of the pulser output made on a wide variety of scopes in this thread.
My big problem at the moment is he's developed a version that produces 100pS wide pulses. I'm trying to come up with a justification for buying one.
I was amused that there were two posts in succession about Leo's pulser.
|
I don't want my comments to be a source of disparagement of Leo's
work. I haven't spent a great deal of time studying what he has
done, but in all of the scope pictures he has presented, there is
very significant leading edge overshoot and ripple. To my weathered
eyes the peaking and ripple appears to be 20-30% of the pulse
amplitude.
In calibrating high performance scopes, you need a fast risetime,
flat-topped pulse. You take that pulse, and adjust the scope under
test's pulse forming networks for a sharp leading edge with no
overshoot, and a flat top. Usually you can't achieve perfection,
but I always have been able to do much better than what I see in
the scope pictures, using the Tektronix tunnel diode pulser, or
the Tektronix CG5011 calibrator.
Generally what one sees when a pulser, with a nearly ideal shape
(so says a sampling scope with 10x the bandwidth of say a 7104...),
is used for calibration, is a risetime that appears slower than
the sampling scope showed, and a curved leading edge. Not a
30% peak, unless the peak was already there.
In other words, the peaks and ripples get filtered out by the
slower scope's networks, not accentuated. That is the whole point
of the transient calibration.
If Leo's pulser is intended for measurement of the risetime of
wide and varied scope models, as a method of displaying and calculating
the theoretical bandwidth, then it is perfect.
If it is intended as a calibration device, I have worries that it
won't do the job as well as the Tektronix TD pulser, or the CG5011
calibration generator. Probably all it needs is a little better
matching network between the comparator switch and the DUT.
-Chuck Harris
Reginald Beardsley via Groups.Io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Consider the time scale on Leo's plots and the response of the scope he's using which is what you are seeing in the calibration plot. I can't find my plot right now as my bench is undergoing at upgrade and everything is a huge mess. But IIRC the entire length of the step response Leo provides is less than the sample rate of anything most of us are likely to own.
I have put the BNC version on a new MSOX3104T. 436 pS rise time and 7% overshoot. I discussed with Keysight support which confirmed what I was seeing. A 750 MHz low pass filter reduced the overshoot to well less than 1%. But I could not inline the filter.
I then had an RTM3104 on demo. It arrived with 350 pS rise time and 3% overshoot. If I applied a 1 GHz LPF I had no visible overshoot. I was ecstatic. But for some legal reason the K18 option is not available in North America and the available FFT was completely useless. It was suggested that I install the 1.300 FW update. After that it had 10% overshoot. Restoring 1.100 did not restore the original response.
I've looked at 4 other scopes with Leo's pulser. I have no doubt that the waveform I saw is the true step response of the instrument. Now if you have one of the new Keysight 256 GSa/S 111 GHz DSOs, you probably need a better signal source. I suspect it would require one to give an accurate picture of the step response of Leo's pulser.
There are a large number of plots of the pulser output made on a wide variety of scopes in this thread.
My big problem at the moment is he's developed a version that produces 100pS wide pulses. I'm trying to come up with a justification for buying one.
I was amused that there were two posts in succession about Leo's pulser.
|
On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 7:52 AM Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> wrote: I don't want my comments to be a source of disparagement of Leo's
work. I haven't spent a great deal of time studying what he has
done, but in all of the scope pictures he has presented, there is
very significant leading edge overshoot and ripple. To my weathered
eyes the peaking and ripple appears to be 20-30% of the pulse
amplitude. Leo supplied my (early revision BNC) pulser with a CSA803 screenshot showing measured rising edge aberrations of 9.4% P-P and falling edge aberrations of 3.6% P-P. This compares favorably with my S-52s and other tunnel diode pulsers. I believe he has improved the layout since that time.
|
The Russian Tunnel Diodes on eBay can be found by searching for the listing titled:
"Switching tunnel diodes 1I308D" 10pcs
The eBay seller is: "russhamma"
The specs listed for these TD's are:
Maximal parameters Average parameters §´k.§Þ§Ñ§ç
§´=25¡ãC §´=25¡ãC (§´§á.)
I§á. U§á. Sd. Ld r§á. I§á./Iv. U§á§â. §á§âi I§àb§â. ¡ãC
(DI§á.) (U§á§â.) (Lk§à§â) I§á§â.
m§¡ mV pF nGn Ohm mV m§¡ mk§¡
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
1I308§¡ 5,0 (0,5) 100 1,5...5,0 0,35 - 5 - 6 - 70
1I308B 5,0 (0,5) 110 0,7...2,0 0,35 - 5 - 4 - 70
1I308V 10,0 (1,0) 110 4,0...10 0,35 - 5 - 20 - 70
1I308G 10,0 (1,0) 120 1,5...5,0 0,35 - 5 - 15 - 70
1I308D 10,0 (1,0) 130 0,8...2,0 0,35 - 5 - 6 - 70
1I308E 20 (2,0) 140 3,0...15 0,35 - 5 - 20 - 70
1I308J 20 (2,0) 160 1,0...4,0 0,35 - 5 - 8 - 70
1I308I 50 (5,0) 150 5,0...20 0,35 - 5 - 40 - 70
1I308K 50 (5,0) 180 2,3...8,0 0,35 - 5 - 20 - 70
|
hello sergey, what would be a contemporary similiar replace for the 1i308D/Gi308D ?
could you post links to online stores if there any?
cpaciba
|
On Wed, 24 Aug 2022, guilhey7@... wrote: hello sergey, what would be a contemporary similiar replace for the 1i308D/Gi308D ? There is no replacement, 1I308x are unique. 1I308D has 9-11mA Ipeak like its cousins 1I308V and 1I308G (1§ª308§¥/1§ª308§£/1§ª308§¤ in Cyrillic for D/V/G) but it is the fastest one from those three. could you post links to online stores if there any? Nope, those are gone, probably forever :( ALL Russian sellers were purged from eBay and it is very unlikely that any of the Russian online stores would (and could) take US Dollar payments and ship to USA. There were some sellers from former Soviet block (Romania, Bulgaria etc.) that had some remnants but that is all gone and I don't see a single one (with ANY suffix, not just D) available on eBay as of right now. --- * * KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. * * Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. * *
|
I am guessing The a and b sufix from this selling would just fit into place
What do you think?
Several thank yous for your help.
|
On Thu, 25 Aug 2022, guilhey7@... wrote: Those are totally different ones, not even close to GERMANIUM 1I306x. The latter is very high speed SWITCHING devices. AI201x are much slower GALLIUM ARSENIDE _OSCILLATION_ device. I am guessing The a and b sufix from this selling would just fit into place
What do you think?
Several thank yous for your help. --- * * KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. * * Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. * *
|
Your comment confuses me. To first order, what matters here are the difference between peak and valley voltages, the peak current, and the capacitance. The specs for the GaAs TDs are comparable to those for the Tek TDs.
I note that GaAs also has higher electron mobility than Ge.
Can you explain your ¡°much slower¡± assertion in more detail? Also, your comment re: ¡°oscillation device¡± similarly puzzles.
Thanks.
Tom
Sent from my iThing; please forgive the typos and brevity
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Aug 25, 2022, at 09:05, Sergey Kubushyn <ksi@...> wrote:
?On Thu, 25 Aug 2022, guilhey7@... wrote:
Those are totally different ones, not even close to GERMANIUM 1I306x. The
latter is very high speed SWITCHING devices. AI201x are much slower GALLIUM
ARSENIDE _OSCILLATION_ device.
I am guessing The a and b sufix from this selling would just fit into place
What do you think?
Several thank yous for your help. ---
*
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
*
|
For what it¡¯s worth, I replaced my 547 scope¡¯s B-trigger D45 (originally 10mA Germanium 152-0154 aka TD253) with GaAs 3I306L. After adjustment, it works almost as well as the A-trigger. Dave Wise From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Tom Lee via groups.io Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2022 10:15 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Russian Tunnel Diodes Your comment confuses me. To first order, what matters here are the difference between peak and valley voltages, the peak current, and the capacitance. The specs for the GaAs TDs are comparable to those for the Tek TDs. I note that GaAs also has higher electron mobility than Ge. Can you explain your ¡°much slower¡± assertion in more detail? Also, your comment re: ¡°oscillation device¡± similarly puzzles. Thanks. Tom Sent from my iThing; please forgive the typos and brevity On Aug 25, 2022, at 09:05, Sergey Kubushyn <ksi@...<mailto:ksi@...>> wrote:
?On Thu, 25 Aug 2022, guilhey7@...<mailto:guilhey7@...> wrote:
Those are totally different ones, not even close to GERMANIUM 1I306x. The
latter is very high speed SWITCHING devices. AI201x are much slower GALLIUM
ARSENIDE _OSCILLATION_ device.
I am guessing The a and b sufix from this selling would just fit into place
<>
What do you think?
Several thank yous for your help. ---
*
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
*
|
Data is always worth a lot. Thanks, Dave!
Tom
Sent from my iThing; please forgive the typos and brevity
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Aug 25, 2022, at 10:56, Dave Wise <david_wise@...> wrote:
?For what it¡¯s worth, I replaced my 547 scope¡¯s B-trigger D45 (originally 10mA Germanium 152-0154 aka TD253) with GaAs 3I306L. After adjustment, it works almost as well as the A-trigger.
Dave Wise
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Tom Lee via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2022 10:15 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Russian Tunnel Diodes
Your comment confuses me. To first order, what matters here are the difference between peak and valley voltages, the peak current, and the capacitance. The specs for the GaAs TDs are comparable to those for the Tek TDs.
I note that GaAs also has higher electron mobility than Ge.
Can you explain your ¡°much slower¡± assertion in more detail? Also, your comment re: ¡°oscillation device¡± similarly puzzles.
Thanks.
Tom
Sent from my iThing; please forgive the typos and brevity
On Aug 25, 2022, at 09:05, Sergey Kubushyn <ksi@...<mailto:ksi@...>> wrote:
?On Thu, 25 Aug 2022, guilhey7@...<mailto:guilhey7@...> wrote:
Those are totally different ones, not even close to GERMANIUM 1I306x. The
latter is very high speed SWITCHING devices. AI201x are much slower GALLIUM
ARSENIDE _OSCILLATION_ device.
I am guessing The a and b sufix from this selling would just fit into place
<>
What do you think?
Several thank yous for your help. ---
*
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
*
|
Yiu On Tony C
Sergey Kubushyn