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Re: Tailwinds for sale
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýQuite a difference from the typical Tailwind builder that overhauls an O-320 and goes just as fast on less gas, doesn¡¯t have to step on the upholstery to get in, no rain in the cockpit and in the case of an off airport landing, does not get trapped by an upside down airplane on top of themselves Red ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Tailwind14855 via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2025 3:11 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [TailwindForum] Tailwinds for sale ? IO-390 Lycoming which seems to be popular with RV8 and RV14 builders is $91-97K depending on exact configuration.? Completed airplanes have asking prices well over $200k. ? On Wednesday, January 15, 2025 at 05:17:47 PM MST, Mike Wilson via groups.io <mike_tailwind@...> wrote: ? ? Two years ago when I finished mine, I figured the cost to complete a Tailwind at about $55K.? About $15K for the airframe and $40K for engine, prop, paint and avionics.? Costs have gone up since then.? You can add that cost to most kits to see what the total would be.? That is if you build it like a Tailwind builder would:? overhaul your own engine, do your own painting, and panel installation.? Some of these RVs cost $150K+ to build with factory new engines, $45K++, Custom pint $20-30K, farmed-out avionics install $30K+.? Plus "builder assist" ? On Wednesday, January 15, 2025 at 11:05:59 AM CST, Tailwind14855 via groups.io <tailwind14855@...> wrote: ? ? I surveyed six mostly older RV's, prices ranged from 59.5K to 130K. W10 prices are way too low. The Schultz airplane now has an asking price approximately the same as the value of the engine and prop alone. A really sad situation.? ? On Wednesday, January 15, 2025 at 08:28:25 AM MST, Merle W via groups.io <wagnermerle@...> wrote: ? ? Opps, forgot some photos ? |
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Re: Tailwinds for sale
IO-390 Lycoming which seems to be popular with RV8 and RV14 builders is $91-97K depending on exact configuration.? Completed airplanes have asking prices well over $200k.
On Wednesday, January 15, 2025 at 05:17:47 PM MST, Mike Wilson via groups.io <mike_tailwind@...> wrote:
Two years ago when I finished mine, I figured the cost to complete a Tailwind at about $55K.? About $15K for the airframe and $40K for engine, prop, paint and avionics.? Costs have gone up since then.? You can add that cost to most kits to see what the total would be.? That is if you build it like a Tailwind builder would:? overhaul your own engine, do your own painting, and panel installation.? Some of these RVs cost $150K+ to build with factory new engines, $45K++, Custom pint $20-30K, farmed-out avionics install $30K+.? Plus "builder assist"
On Wednesday, January 15, 2025 at 11:05:59 AM CST, Tailwind14855 via groups.io <tailwind14855@...> wrote:
I surveyed six mostly older RV's, prices ranged from 59.5K to 130K. W10 prices are way too low. The Schultz airplane now has an asking price approximately the same as the value of the engine and prop alone. A really sad situation.?
On Wednesday, January 15, 2025 at 08:28:25 AM MST, Merle W via groups.io <wagnermerle@...> wrote:
Opps, forgot some photos
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Re: Tailwinds for sale
Two years ago when I finished mine, I figured the cost to complete a Tailwind at about $55K.? About $15K for the airframe and $40K for engine, prop, paint and avionics.? Costs have gone up since then.? You can add that cost to most kits to see what the total would be.? That is if you build it like a Tailwind builder would:? overhaul your own engine, do your own painting, and panel installation.? Some of these RVs cost $150K+ to build with factory new engines, $45K++, Custom pint $20-30K, farmed-out avionics install $30K+.? Plus "builder assist"
On Wednesday, January 15, 2025 at 11:05:59 AM CST, Tailwind14855 via groups.io <tailwind14855@...> wrote:
I surveyed six mostly older RV's, prices ranged from 59.5K to 130K. W10 prices are way too low. The Schultz airplane now has an asking price approximately the same as the value of the engine and prop alone. A really sad situation.?
On Wednesday, January 15, 2025 at 08:28:25 AM MST, Merle W via groups.io <wagnermerle@...> wrote:
Opps, forgot some photos
?
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Re: Tailwinds for sale
Such is the state of affairs in the world of homebuilt aircraft these days.? The plans-built classics, many of which are really great airplanes, aren't talked about much online or in print, so the prices get depressed because there isn't a lot of interest.? The Van's designs are today what some of the very successful plans-built designs were many years ago.? They are great airplanes no doubt, and they get most of the "ink", so demand drives prices up. Remember the days when you would go to the EAA convention and see row upon row of Thorp T-18s, VariEzes, etc?? Now the place is inundated with RVs of every version, while just a smattering of those earlier designs can be found.? Heck, I bought a Pitts S1C for the price of the engine and prop many years ago, so the phenomenon isn't really all that new.? Law of supply and demand I guess.? Joe On Wed, Jan 15, 2025 at 11:06?AM Tailwind14855 via <Tailwind14855=[email protected]> wrote:
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Re: Tailwinds for sale
Don,
Going from memory, the empty weight is just over 1000 lbs, the engine is 272 + 30 for the radiator assy.? All in all a lot of weight could be taken off. When I rebuilt the plane it was an experiment with the Viking engine. It works great now. If I redid it I would go with a 150 HP engine and get a weight savings along with other weight reducing improvements that I could do. The goal of this project was to see if it could fly reasonably, not to save weight.?
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Merle
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Re: Tailwinds for sale
I surveyed six mostly older RV's, prices ranged from 59.5K to 130K. W10 prices are way too low. The Schultz airplane now has an asking price approximately the same as the value of the engine and prop alone. A really sad situation.?
On Wednesday, January 15, 2025 at 08:28:25 AM MST, Merle W via groups.io <wagnermerle@...> wrote:
Opps, forgot some photos
?
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Re: Tailwinds for sale
Hi Bob,
Plane is located in Spring Hill, FL. I am asking $40K as is, $15K for the airframe as configured. The following is a document describing the plane.?
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Wittman Tailwind W10 S/N 881 ? Originally built by James Doan, Brooksville, FL and issued experimental certification in 2005. The plane had a Ford V6 with a belt reduction drive. The airplane fuselage was completely covered with a fiberglass shell and the empty weight was over 1300 lbs. Obviously too heavy and it never flew and I now know why, it wouldn¡¯t get off the ground due to all the faults I found. ? I purchased the plane from Jim¡¯s estate in December, 2016 with the intent of having it flying in 3 or 4 months. Upon a detailed inspection I found so many faults that I removed almost everything on the fuselage and started over with a bare frame. The only original components remaining were the wings, wing struts and vertical stabilizer. The wings have metal ailerons and flaps. ? Numerous modifications were made to the plane. The list is extensive but it is covered in a separate document. ? I decided to use a Viking engine and used the Viking 195T. This was initially combined with a 5 blade ground adjustable propeller. The fuselage was covered with Oratex fabric except for the vertical stabilizer which still has the original Fiberglass covering ( a future upgrade to Oratex). The cabin area is aluminum. I rebuilt the fuselage components with maintenance in mind. So all paneling, etc can be removed. I can strip down to a bare frame in less than 3 hours (by myself). The instrument panel is hinged for easy access and on and on. ? The inter-cooler system went through an upgrade to a larger inter-cooler and all the changes necessary.? I went through 2 engine changes, one being an inter-cooler connection failure and the other being an engine timing issue which was corrected. ? The cooling system went through 3 iterations until I found a solution that adequately cooled the engine. The aesthetics aren¡¯t there but it works. ? I had a nose wheel failure on landing during phase 1 which caused damage to the right wing tip, propeller, cowl, wheel pants and nose wheel assembly. The nose wheel assembly was a design by the original builder. Obviously it was not adequate, I rebuilt with a nose wheel assembly from the RANS S21. During this rebuild phase I elected to upgrade the prop to an in flight variable pitch prop from Duc. ? Current configuration: ? Tailwind W10 with Oratex fabric and aluminum covering for cabin area. Wooden wings with metal ailerons and flaps Clement door and rear spar mods Nosewheel assembly from RANS S21 with 5.00-5 tire for prop clearance 20 gallon fuel tank, dual fuel pumps in tank Fiberglass cowl (2nd iteration) Viking 195T engine with Duc 5 blade (70¡±) in-flight variable pitch. GRT SportEX EFIS with all options. GRT autopilot servos. GRT Autopilot GRT WAAS GPS GRT Magnetometer Trig TT22 transponder, S mode ADS-B out Levil Aviation BOM, it provides backup panel with Ipad, ADS-B in data to GRT EFIS ACK model E-04 ELT 406 Mhz satellite with GPS data FL760A comm radio Autotune Digital display for engine management. One display for RPM, MAP, IAT, CLT, Oil Pressure, Fuel Pressure, Fuel level, radiator in/out temps, inter-cooler in/out temps Electric flaps 4 point seat belts, can be upgraded to 5 point Matco wheels and brake units ? My maximum cruise to date has been 150 MPH and I have not yet tried anything with WOT and different pitch settings. Stall with full flaps was 45 MPH and no flaps it was 55 MPH. Climb rate has exceeded 1500 FPM at 100 MPH. I have not tested to see what the max climb rate would be at this time. The auto pilot still needs some final tweaking but holds altitude and responds to altitude change requests. It easily handles heading changes with a bit of oscillation. The gains have to be adjusted. I have not measured takeoff distance but if setup for max takeoff it does not require much runway. A gradual increase in the throttle along with the turbo coming alive has you off the ground immediately. And I weigh 215 lbs along with full fuel (20 gallons). ? It is very sensitive on the controls. I have since adjusted the rudder inputs to reduce sensitivity. You can make standard rate turns by just playing with the rudder and next to no aileron movement. ? The plane was last flown in September, 2023. Since then I had a mini-stroke and had to get my BFR current. The seats have been upholstered. I installed a prop pitch indicator so I can tell what pitch setting I am at for a given RPM. ? Phase 1 flight testing is not complete. I have 18 hours so far. It needs to be flown for the remaining hours and verify all parameters.? ? If there is any further information you would require then please let me know. I am available almost anytime if you care to look at the plane. ? Contact info: ? ? Cell ¨C 813-758-4196, don¡¯t be surprised if there is no answer initially. Too much spam, just leave message or text. ? I have not continued flying the plane due to health concerns and the insurance industry trying to rape me.? My AOPA agent stated the problem was my age (over 80) and the nose wheel failure incident.? ? The plane is hangared in my garage with the wings off. I could not keep the plane at the airport (KBKV) without insurance. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? |
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Re: Tailwinds for sale
Merle, I don¡¯t think I know your airplane. Basic specs location and price? My W10 N115WT could be bought for $50k. 160hp, light, simple and fast, 475 hrs.? At KABI (West of Dallas). Can deliver lower 48. Much cheaper and I¡¯ll keep her. Here she is on the way to Watertown last summer.? Schultz W10 seems like a very good price.? Bob Wray 214.682.8583 On Tue, Jan 14, 2025 at 6:52?PM Merle W via <wagnermerle=[email protected]> wrote:
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Bob Wray N115WT KABI |
Keith Klos
Joe Norris
Merle W
Bob Wray