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Re: Propeller

Matthias Klemm
 

Hi Chris,

I have a Universal M3-20 (3cyl 18hp Kubota) with a 3 blade prop but I don't know the size and pitch. This setup pushes the boat?to 5kts?at 1500rpm and?to 7kts?at 2000rpm.

Matthias



On Mar 18, 2008, at 3:50 PM, chrisd4700 wrote:

Hi folks,

I currently have a Yanmar 2GM20F in my T-27 and it drives a two blade?
prop. This set up gives me very little power vs. vibration. I'm?
wanting to switch out props this summer. Has anyone gone to a 3 blade?
prop and if so, can you give me the details? Size, pitch, etc. Are you?
still running with the Atomic 4 or has anyone else repowered with a?
diesel. I need some advice. Thanks in advance!
c



Propeller

 

Hi folks,

I currently have a Yanmar 2GM20F in my T-27 and it drives a two blade
prop. This set up gives me very little power vs. vibration. I'm
wanting to switch out props this summer. Has anyone gone to a 3 blade
prop and if so, can you give me the details? Size, pitch, etc. Are you
still running with the Atomic 4 or has anyone else repowered with a
diesel. I need some advice. Thanks in advance!
c


Centerboard Pendant

 

The postings concerning the solutions to a parted pendant have been
quite a coincident for me since just before seeing them I had sent a
similar question to "Brian's" site. However, that site is apparently no
longer accepting traffic/updated. If "Brian" or someone would confirm
that, it would be appreciated (I also got an "undeliverable" when I
sent a email to the webmaster address).

I had first sent my request to his site for several reasons, including
the related Sep 07 post and the photo of # 257 (our T-27 is #258).

I will send this group a separate request for some details from those
who have already been through the "broken pendant" experience. We have
just had one of those situations when getting ready for a last sail
before haulout, the diver cleaning the boat's bottom cleaned enough to
have the board "lower itself" and I then hauled in the parted pendant.
More to follow.....

Regards/Tom


Portlights

ksmith4312
 

Hello

Well after 38 years the starboard portlights are leaking, just
don't make them like they use to.

Anyone with experience rebedding. I will probably replace the
existing ???? with Lexan. These are the four fixed located in the
salon.

Also while I am thinking about it. How are the teak coamings
attached?


Hull 442 1970


Re: Centerboard lifting system

Walter Glasspool
 

Jack,
I have replaced my centerboard pennant twice in the seven years that I have had Patience.
?
The first time the 1/8" cable failed at the centerboard entry point while sailing in the Florida Keys. To limit the draft we formed a loop that held the board in the up position, aka, belly band. BoatUS recrimped the remaining line while in Key West at a reasonable rate. They advised a new pennant which I did on the hard, Filled the centerboard hole and entry point with Lanacoat.
?
The second time (2 months ago) the pennant failed while raising Patience on a lift. This time the pennant failed about a foot above the centerboard entry point. I assumed that happened because I usually sail with the board partially down in order to balance the helm, the cable must be rubbing at some point in the CB slot.
?
You could try replacing the cable with a new type high strength line. that would stop and corrosion but not the abrasion that I have just seen. A second method that am trying is to firt a 1/8" I,D, poly tubing (ACE Hardware)?over the cable.
?
Walt.
Patience T27-2,#695


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Re: 1971 hull crazing

 

you are a wise man.? as a smart person once said to me 'the child does not fear the tiger'.? make no mistake, the sort of fairing/filling/fairing/priming/filling/painting (oh, did i forget to mention sanding) project required to bring these old boats back is a tiger (grrrr), and it can get pricey.? i helped someone do an?old pearson 30 a few years back, and was simply agast at the amount of work involved.? having said that, 4 years later, the pearson 30 i helped with still looks great.? but it wound up taking months to complete.


Never miss a thing.


Re: 1967 hull crazing

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

I can understand your apprehension with doing work on a boat.? However, as I told one particularly nasty wench at a prospective marina¡­. Every boat that ever touched water is a project.? A new boat becomes a project the absolute moment it backs away from the travel lift for the first time.

?

Be realistic about what you want, what you will get and how long you will own it.? Painting is very easy and the industry likes to make it seem like going to the moon.? To be bluntly honest, the ¡°marine industry¡± is full of charlatans and scam artists who will do some form of work in return for a large sum of money.? Everything is measured in hundreds or thousands of dollars.? A few of them are reputable and reliable.

?

I personally had a ¡°experienced expert mechanic¡± tell me my Volvo Diesel was ¡°DEAD¡±¡­. Funny it still runs strong.? It had sat for a while and the rings were stuck.

?

My boat was painted at some point by the PO¡­ both on the deck and the hull.? This year I jumped on the dreaded resurfacing project.? The deck is a pain, but at the same time it¡¯s not that bad.? The prep work is annoying.? But if you have gelcoat then it¡¯s easy as pie.? Just rough sand and wipe down and paint.? I used Interlux Brightside on the deck and the hull.? It was extremely easy to use.? I did use the primer which does have a filling quality to it for minor crazing.? For non-skid I used ¡°kiwi-grip¡± which goes on very easy, leaves a great looking non-skid, and hides an amazing amount of cracking.? There were a couple areas near my winches where the gelcoat was in very bad shape.? Same thing for the cockpit sole.? The boat looks AAA+ now.?

?

In my personal, non-expert opinion, gelcoat is a cheap way to avoid painting for manufacturers.? I can¡¯t find anything that indicates that it does something important for fiberglass.? Nothing I¡¯ve read suggests that it is structural, etc, etc.? I can find that it is used up against mold release to get a smooth surface.? Past that, nothing.

?

One thing that is important to understand about gelcoat is how it is used now, and how it was used back in the day.? It is currently sprayed in first to the reverse mold.? Then the glass is built up on top of it.? It¡¯s also useful to pay attention to how the brits name fiberglass, they call it FRP or Fiber Reinforced Plastic which is exactly what it is.? It used to be that the glass was laminated, extracted from the mold, and then gelcoat was very liberally sprayed on.? I have a 1964 Tartan (#71) and I¡¯m certain that is how they would have done it.

?

As for osmotic blistering, I suppose the last years might have that issue.? Glass got very expensive in the late 70¡¯s and early 80¡¯s.? Blisters are primarily from incomplete curing of the resins forming nasty compounds and pulling water in.? Different experts have different opinions about them.? Neil Calder has never seen a boat sunk from them (per either? Practical Sailor or Good Old Boat article).? Boatyards think they are the scourge of the devil and must be removed at once, along with a bottom peel, epoxy coat, 3 layers of gold foil, and a princess to bless the process.? Coincidentally a massive bottom reconstruction is a nice chunk of work for a boatyard.

?

My point here is that the cosmetic stuff can be fixed in a few weeks.? You aren¡¯t going to put the boat in the Smithsonian, or any other boat show for that matter.? It¡¯s only worth $14K in pristine condition¡­. $3.5K in bad condition.? If you are lucky you¡¯ll spend more time sailing than working on it.? A new sail set will get you for $3k.? Rigging will be $1200.? Rigging will undoubtedly need replacing.? Your chainplates are likely to *NEED* replacement¡­. Every other T-27 needs them done, including mine which sails fine with them.?

?

I have a saying.? If you get within 5 feet of it and have anything critical to say¡­. There are tools in the starboard lazarette, what would you like to work on first?? There is bottled water and soda in the fridge, can I get you one while you start working?? I assure you that this shuts up even the most voracious critic.

?

If your marina is like mine, 80% of the boats never move.? The T-27 is a very sturdy, capable boat.? They are better built than nearly anything else of their time.? They are also becoming scarce as they are either owned by those of us who will care for them, or gone through scrap or accident.

?

I trust if you are looking at a neglected T-27 that you are bottomfeeding for a boat.? No big deal, I did it twice with my T-27 and my C-22.? It¡¯s a great way to get a good boat.? Just realize that you can¡¯t turn a Ford into a Caddillac.? The Tartan is a classic Caddillac in every single sense of the word.? Tartan competes with Beneteau.? My boat originally sold for $30K in 1964!? They are covered with $TEAK$.....? Just don¡¯t fall for one of the many problem children brands out there that made 100, went out of business and was never really successful.? Every old boat is going to need TLC.? Many of them simply need to be buried.? The Tartans have excellent glasswork, are very sturdy, have true craftsmanship and for the most part are easy to sail and forgiving.? Oh and most of the cosmetic stuff is just that and not as hard as the boat expert$ would have you believe.

?

Brian Greul

Texas Shirt Company

713-802-0369 / 713-861-6261 (fax)

Targeted, Effective Promotions to help you grow your brand


Re: Centerboard lifting system

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

There isn¡¯t a pulley of sorts¡­. Accept for the lifting pulley.

?

I added a marine bronze pipe bushing as a wear component.? You really should inspect this particular point on a regular basis.

?

It¡¯s also a good idea to go through the hassle of dropping your CB to check the pivot pin and pivot point.? My CB was a hack job replacement and it rotted and fell out when I was replacing the pennant.? Since then it really hasn¡¯t affected sailing ability¡­ although occasionally it¡¯s a nuisance not having it.? It¡¯s really only when you are trying to point¡­ so if you race you need it.

?

Brian Greul

Texas Shirt Company

713-802-0369 / 713-861-6261 (fax)

Targeted, Effective Promotions to help you grow your brand


Re: 1967 hull crazing

 

Gang, and prospective T27 owner,

My T27 (#328) is from 1967 and has a good bit of the 'spiderweb' minute cracking more or less all over above the water line. There were a few larger dings (smaller than a dime) that I recoated with new white gelcoat and sanded down but I still have not addressed the entire above the water line issue and am resistant to taking the painting approach just yet. Painting the hull and deck would probably be easier than re-working all the gelcoat and could last for a number of years. We have had our boat for 5 years and our boat has been a mostly dry boat (no water intrusion through the hull) even with the spider web cracks in the gelcoat which you can only see from about 3 feet away anyway. Of course the hull does not quite shine like a newer hull (which is why people use stuff like PolyGlow) but I feel that it is quite structurally sound and have had several positive surveys for a boat 41 years old. The fiberglass in the hull is close to 1/2" thick and quite strong (some think this rigidity is a detriment but I find this a fact reassuring).
There are at least 2 kinds of gel coat as I understand: paste and a more liquid form. I would like to sand the hull with at least #220 or #320 and apply the more liquid variety to try and fill/hide the spiderweb cracks. You then should sand out the new gelcoat starting with #320 then #440 then #600 and finish with #1000 grit paper for the smoothest finish. It would be an expensive job to have done by a 'professional' and a job that would take an enterprising owner some time to do but would still be cheaper than buying a newer boat.
The T27 is a forgiving sailer and a nice package for cruising and the center board and low draft (3'6") mean you can get into places some boats of the same size and heft can not. I have raced my T27 and honestly can say that it does not sail upwind as well as many fin keel boats and its PHRF rating bears this out. The most common problem with these boats is failure of the chain plates which I would consider to be a more important factor when considering buying this boat than the gel coat cracks that can not be seen from 10' away.
Just my point of view from within the conspiracy.

-----Original Message-----
From: s.sargent90 <s.sargent90@...>
To: T27Owners@...
Sent: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 5:54 pm
Subject: [T27Owners] Re:1971 hull crazing

--- In T27Owners@..., richard whitehead <yamiracer@...>
wrote:

hey,

i think i know the boat you are referring to. if it's the one
with crazing covering nearly every square inch, then i advise
caution. if the gelcoat crazing is deep enough so you can see the
fiberglass of if your fingernail can feel a groove, then you are
looking at one serious project to make it right. assuming the hull
is ok, i.e. no water intrusion/delam, then you will have to fair all
crazing, apply multiple coats of filling primer, probably re-fair
what's left, then apply 2 coats of paint. yikes! all doable to be
sure, just make sure you know what you are getting into. also, make
sure to make the offer L-O-W. if it's the boat i think, at least
it's been on the hard for a couple years, so it should be dry. i
have since made myself a 'no paint' pledge, and i'm glad i've stuck
to it in my boat search. but that's just me.

best of luck,

rw


---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
Try it now.
Thanks everyone. I think that I will continue my search. I talked
with a marine technician that has seen this crazing and as you all
have said, it would be alot of work to bring this hull back. He
worried that after all my painting, the crazing could come back if
the gelcoat cracks go all the way down to the fiberglass. Thanks
again everybody.




Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: 1971 hull crazing

s.sargent90
 

--- In T27Owners@..., richard whitehead <yamiracer@...>
wrote:

hey,

i think i know the boat you are referring to. if it's the one
with crazing covering nearly every square inch, then i advise
caution. if the gelcoat crazing is deep enough so you can see the
fiberglass of if your fingernail can feel a groove, then you are
looking at one serious project to make it right. assuming the hull
is ok, i.e. no water intrusion/delam, then you will have to fair all
crazing, apply multiple coats of filling primer, probably re-fair
what's left, then apply 2 coats of paint. yikes! all doable to be
sure, just make sure you know what you are getting into. also, make
sure to make the offer L-O-W. if it's the boat i think, at least
it's been on the hard for a couple years, so it should be dry. i
have since made myself a 'no paint' pledge, and i'm glad i've stuck
to it in my boat search. but that's just me.

best of luck,

rw


---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
Try it now.
Thanks everyone. I think that I will continue my search. I talked
with a marine technician that has seen this crazing and as you all
have said, it would be alot of work to bring this hull back. He
worried that after all my painting, the crazing could come back if
the gelcoat cracks go all the way down to the fiberglass. Thanks
again everybody.


Centerboard lifting system

 

Looking for help with the mechanics of raising the centerboard on our
1978 Tartan 27-2. I have two questions: How is your CB pennant
attached to your CB? And what are the dimensions of the pulleys for
your CB lifting system? As reference, the Chesapeake Bay T27
Association's Handbook specifies the CB Pennant as 1/8" wire
(presumably flexible stranded stainless) attached to the centerboard
and 1/4" rope attached to the sailor's hand.

1) On our previous centerboard (RIP), the 1/8" wire went through a
hole in the aft edge of the board, into a bronze sleeve of about 7/8"
inside diameter. The wire was doubled over and crimped onto itself to
form a "stop knot". There was extensive, severe corrosion in this area
which I'd like to avoid next time. Does anyone know if this edge hole
arrangement was original? Has anyone used a simple rope, say 1/4"
diameter tied through the existing bronze sleeve?

2) Photo 19 of 31 under Tartan27 ¨C 213 shows the lifting pulleys on a
T27. The ratio of large pulley diameter to small pulley diameter
appears to be about 4 or 4.5 to 1. However, the existing setup on our
27-2 is a 10-5/8" outside diameter plastic pulley, with a working
winding diameter of 7-3/4". There is no small pulley. The wire pennant
wound directly onto a 1" diameter shaft, giving a ratio of 7.75 to 1.
Quite a difference. Plus, I can't imagine a 1/8" stranded stainless
cable reasonably winding onto such a small diameter.

Any help appreciated. Thanks.

Jack Wyman
1978 Tartan 27-2
Hull #667
"Seakindly" (for the time being)
Manchester, Michigan


Re: 1971 hull crazing

 

hey,
?
i think i know the boat you are referring to.? if it's the one with crazing covering?nearly every square inch, then i advise caution.? if the gelcoat crazing is deep enough so you can see the fiberglass of if your fingernail can feel a groove, then you are looking at one serious project to make it right.? assuming the hull is ok, i.e. no water intrusion/delam, then you will have to fair all crazing, apply multiple coats of filling primer, probably re-fair what's left, then apply 2 coats of paint.? yikes!? all doable to be sure,?just make sure you know what you are getting into.? also, make sure to make the offer L-O-W.? if it's the boat i think, at least it's been on the hard for a couple years, so it should be dry.? i have since made myself a 'no paint' pledge, and i'm glad i've stuck to it in my boat search.? but that's just me.?
?
best of luck,
?
rw??


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Re: 1971 hull crazing

 

It seems like the crazing you have is from the gelcoat being too thick. It's really common and not usually structurally significant above the waterline
I have the same problem and and solving it with essentially a barrier coat of thinned epoxy I sanded all the surfaces with and orbital sander up tp 150 grit. the washed and wiped down with laquer thinner and rolled and tipped the epoxy. had a few runs and ended up sanding down again with up to 220 grit and am now ready for primer.
You may want to check some spots below the waterline for similer crazing and also blisters. The tartans are notorious for bistering which is basically an osmotic process that? can in severe cases lead to hull delamination... I have quite a few. Again a good barrier coat will solve most of the crazing and small blisters once they have been sanded down. A major blistering problem is a real headache.
My plan is to finish above the waterline and topsides with a waterbourne two part LPU paint ala system 3. I'll try and update the pics as I go along. still undecided on the varnish situaion btw... the penetrating epoxy seems to have been a good idea but has darkened the teak quite a bit... hopefully the weather improves pretty soon so I can get back to work on the boat.
Good luck
Rich Shearley LOLA 438


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Re: 1971 hull crazing

s.sargent90
 

--- In T27Owners@..., "Greg Van Pelt" <greg.vanpelt@...>
wrote:

Hi, Im new to this site and am looking at a 1971 tartan27. The
hull
appears to have small crazing/cracking throughout. I found out the
owner used that commercial product "poliglow" on it to get the
shine
back. I was wondering if any of you have seen or had any problems
of
the hull crazing? I really want to buy the boat,but this cracking
has
me hesitent. I may try some acetone on a small corner and see if
its
just that poliglow stuff. Any help would be appreciated and I
look
forward to being a tartan owner.
We look forward to your being a Tartan owner as well; welcome to the
conspiracy.

To answer your question: it depends.

You don't say where on the hull the crazing occurs, so I'm assuming
the
topsides. You also haven't indicated whether the boat's been
painted
or is in original gelcoat, so I'll also assume it's gelcoat.

Many of the boats of that era were shot with a fairly thick layer of
gelcoat. When the hull flexed the gelcoat - more brittle than the
fiber-impregnated glass of the hull - shattered. Crazing
attributable
to this problem is general over the whole area of the hull.

OTOH, if the cracking is localized around areas of stress -
bulkheads,
say, or other points at which members join or hardware is mounted -
it's
very possible that the damage goes deeper than the gelcoat.

Pictures would be helpful, if you can get them.
Thanks, the crazing is uniform above the water line. It is not due to
stress cracking as I made a point to check all stress related areas
on first inspection. If the hull is shattered due to flexingof the
gelcoat, should I be able to sand down or put use some thicker primer
and re-paint with good results? thanks again, Steve


Re: 1971 hull crazing

Greg Van Pelt
 

> Hi, Im new to this site and am looking at a 1971 tartan27. The hull
> appears to have small crazing/cracking throughout. I found out the
> owner used that commercial product "poliglow" on it to get the shine
> back. I was wondering if any of you have seen or had any problems of
> the hull crazing? I really want to buy the boat,but this cracking has
> me hesitent. I may try some acetone on a small corner and see if its
> just that poliglow stuff. Any help would be appreciated and I look
> forward to being a tartan owner.

We look forward to your being a Tartan owner as well; welcome to the conspiracy.

To answer your question: it depends.?

You don't say where on the hull the crazing occurs, so I'm assuming the topsides.? You also haven't indicated whether the? boat's been painted or is in original gelcoat, so I'll also assume it's gelcoat.

Many of the boats of that era were shot with a fairly thick layer of gelcoat.? When the hull flexed the gelcoat - more brittle than the fiber-impregnated glass of the hull - shattered.? Crazing attributable to this problem is general over the whole area of the hull.?

OTOH, if the cracking is localized around areas of stress - bulkheads, say, or other points at which members join or hardware is mounted - it's very possible that the damage goes deeper than the gelcoat.

Pictures would be helpful, if you can get them.


Re: 1971 hull crazing

Richard Feeny
 

All old boats suffer some gel coat crazing or spider cracking from what I've seen. Tartans, Swans -- all of 'em. It is only a problem when it gets so bad it can let water into the laminate. Re-paint every 20-30 years and fix dings as they happen would be my advice, although I've never heard of "poliglow".
Tartan 27 #81 Mooneshine
Bristol, Rhode Island
Richard Feeny
(415) 233-1630


On Mar 11, 2008, at 6:35 AM, s.sargent90 wrote:

Hi, Im new to this site and am looking at a 1971 tartan27. The hull?
appears to have small crazing/cracking throughout. I found out the?
owner used that commercial product "poliglow" on it to get the shine?
back. I was wondering if any of you have seen or had any problems of?
the hull crazing? I really want to buy the boat,but this cracking has?
me hesitent. I may try some acetone on a small corner and see if its?
just that poliglow stuff. Any help would be appreciated and I look?
forward to being a tartan owner.?



1971 hull crazing

s.sargent90
 

Hi, Im new to this site and am looking at a 1971 tartan27. The hull
appears to have small crazing/cracking throughout. I found out the
owner used that commercial product "poliglow" on it to get the shine
back. I was wondering if any of you have seen or had any problems of
the hull crazing? I really want to buy the boat,but this cracking has
me hesitent. I may try some acetone on a small corner and see if its
just that poliglow stuff. Any help would be appreciated and I look
forward to being a tartan owner.


Re: Spreader Lenght -

 

Rich-Thanks for the spreader dimension.Bob-
--- Richard Shearley <rshearley@...> wrote:


The spreader has a total length of 39 1/2" end to
end
The stainless through rod is 9 1/4 ' long with the
mast width being 3/3/4 of the total length. I've
posted a pic under the LOLA files..
Hope this helps...
Rich


---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.


Re: Spreader Lenght -

 


The spreader has a total length of 39 1/2" end to end
?The stainless through rod is 9 1/4 ' long with the mast width being 3/3/4 of the total length. I've posted a pic under the LOLA files..
Hope this helps...
Rich


Never miss a thing.


Spreader Lenght -

 

I would appreciate the length of an original tubular spreader.
Base or end to center of eye .
Thanks,Bob-