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Re: standing rigging dims
WD,
On the 'Files' section of the group page there is a file called information.htm which has a lot of dimensional info on the T27.? With some basic trigonometry you can figure out the lengths for all shrouds and stays.? I think that the relevant numbers you need are these:
All wire is 7 x 19 stainless
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?Standing Rigging
?
Lower Shrouds-------- 7/32"
Upper Shrouds-------- 3/16"
Forestay?------------? ?3/16"
Backstay??------------ 3/16"
Lifelines???-------------??9/32"
including vinyl 3/16" wire
Genoa Tracks?--------- 1"
Mainsheet traveler??----?7/8???
many have up graded to 1"
Spreaders?-------------?7? degrees
above Horizontal
?--------------------------------------------------------------------
?
?-----Original Message-----
From: wdpurcell@... To: T27Owners@... Sent: Mon, 21 May 2007 1:50 PM Subject: [T27Owners] standing rigging Does anyone know the lengths of the upper shrouds, forestay and
aftstay? I want to replace the standing rigging on "Gusto", a 1967 T-
27, hull # 284. She is a fine sailing vessel (I have owned her twice)
but find I am not sailing her as she deserves due to concerns about the
rigging being older.
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standing rigging
Does anyone know the lengths of the upper shrouds, forestay and
aftstay? I want to replace the standing rigging on "Gusto", a 1967 T- 27, hull # 284. She is a fine sailing vessel (I have owned her twice) but find I am not sailing her as she deserves due to concerns about the rigging being older. |
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Re: Cockpit drains run aft through transom
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýI highly recommend a
boom vang..... just make sure to loosen your topping lift enough to accomodate
it.? :)?
?
If you want pictures
and details of mine let me know.? Mine was installed by a rigger here when
I did the standing rigging.? As in other things there are some tasks that
are best just "make it happen".? At the time this was one of them.? A
good, functioning outhaul is another useful tool.?
?
I decided to pursue
my ASA bareboat certification this year so that I'd have an easier time renting
if I went somewhere and wanted to sail.? I also figured it would make me a
better sailor on my own boat.? Sure enough, I picked up alot on sail
trim.? If you haven't taken a class like this, they are only a couple
hundred dollars for the basic keelboat.? As an added bonus it qualifies you
for a discount on your boat insurance.? The class also fulfills a "safe
boating" course requirement that many states are implementing.? Don't do it
for the insurance or the course requirement though.... do it to be a better,
more confident sailor.? After taking that class I was able to trim up my
ratty c-25 sail on my t-27 and get it to point higher then before.? I can
get it to the "stall markers" on my tell tale and from what I hear that is about
all you can expect from any boat.? Our course was taught on brand new
C-22's and they wouldn't point any higher then the stall
markers.
?
Oh as an added
aside, the course exposed me to self-tailing winches.? I was just deadset
that I had to have them.? Until I saw the price.? I've since figured
out that the winches on our Tartan's will hold tight without being made
fast.? Just make 4 or 5 passes of rope around them and they will basically
hold fast.? This of course solves the "where do I tie it off"
headache.
?
Brian Greul
Texas Shirt Company
713-802-0369 / 713-861-6261
(fax)
Targeted, Effective Promotions to help
you grow your brand
? |
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Re: Cockpit drains run aft through transom
One downside to this idea is in some sea conditions with following waves water might be able to push back up into the cockpit. Of course you could just add extra cockpit drains (for a total of 4) at the aft section that drained out the transom as well.
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The reason the current configuration works is that the cockpit drains that are forward (closest to companionway) drain into a pipe that drains out of both sides of the boat at the waterline so when the boat is heeled there is always room for excess air or pressure to escape out the other side and drainage is possible. I have heard of other T27 owners enlarging the drainage pipes for the cockpit drains from 1" to 1-1/2" or 2" pvc pipe (I suppose the thru hull holes might have been enlarged too - but don't rely on my guesses as to the pipe diameters). What are you people doing that your cockpits need to be drained so quickly? As far as resistance I would submit that my cockpit drain thru hulls do not stick up at all on the surface of the hull and I have noted that they are a little small in size ( 1/2" ?) so I am not that worried about resistance from this thru hull hole. I do race our T27 sometimes and am always looking for advantages if possible. Next on my list is to implement a boom vang on Odalisque. We were out on her this afternoon/evening on the Hudson River near Nyack, N.Y. with winds ranging from 5 - 30+ knots. Getting the rail in the water convinced me that we needed to reef and furl. We had the GPS running and had speeds hitting 6.1 or so with a comfortable speed of 5.9 or 6.0. Once reefed and furled we still hit the same speeds with a lot more comfort or less heel. Even racing in certain conditions it is a good idea to reef and/or furl as you can go just as fast with a lot fewer blow downs. It is a great boat and can endure a lot of weather if that is what you want to do. Just shorten sail occasionally. Caleb #328 Odalisque, 1967 -----Original Message-----
From: missemmasails@... To: T27Owners@... Sent: Sun, 20 May 2007 4:32 PM Subject: [T27Owners] Cockpit drains A friend has suggested running cockpit drains out the transom, symmetrical to the exhaust line. This would considerably improve drainage and reduce resistance by one hull penetration point forward. Anyone have any comments about the wisdom of this idea? Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. |
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Re: Centerboard replacement
I'm not sure if the centerboard was designed for quick breakaway. It
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was just a guess. Thinking more about why there is no steel in the top of the board, it might also be because the weight does a lot more good if it's down further. The weight is there only to get the board down in the first place, and then to keep it down even at hull speed. Having weight near the pivot point doesn't contribute much. The board weighs only a little over 100 pounds, so it contributes very little in the way of ballast. When we ordered the new cb, they needed the distance on our old board from pivot to pennant holes. So even though they knew our model and hull numbers, apparently there were differences among boats. Jack Wyman T27-2 Hull #667 "Seakindly" --- In T27Owners@..., calebjess@... wrote:
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Re: Centerboard replacement
Thanks for the photo Jack. I had not realized that our centerboard was
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designed to be a break away component. It makes perfect sense though as if the centerboard breaks before the trunk does than the boat will most likely still float whereas if the trunk broke below the waterline, well, can you say bucket brigade or abandon ship? Some of this helps explain the rather expensive replacement cost ($1200) at tartanparts.com. This is also making me think that using a sheet of 1/4" (#316) stainless cut to the full dimensions is not such a bad idea. Even if it is covered in epoxy and cloth it might bend (but not break) in a hard sideways grounding situation. This also makes me wonder if a centerboard made completely of bronze could be vulnerable to a catastrophic leak in a hard sideways grounding situation or might be too heavy for the existing hardware. Granted, my T27 does not usually sail sideways (a little when close hauled) but it is interesting to note that the designers (S&S) took the time to consider this possibility however remote. Clever buggers! In bad weather with lumpy seas it is more of a possibility than the kind of weather I usually like to sail in. The few centerboard groundings I have experience with involved low speeds and winds and a muddy river bottom. I think that our board is light enough that it can be pushed up by obstructions below which add to its functionality as a depth meter. I wonder if you know the weight of your deteriorated centerboard? I think that what people who want to fabricate their own centerboards need is the overall dimensions of the board itself. I remember seeing a photo of the board which was aligned on a large piece of paper that had a grid of 1" squares on it so you could count off the inches of all the dimensions. Thanks for your input. Caleb #328 Odalisque, 1967 - Douglas & McLeod builders -----Original Message-----
From: jackwyman@... To: T27Owners@... Cc: jackwyman@... Sent: Wed, 16 May 2007 9:52 PM Subject: [T27Owners] Re: Centerboard replacement Attached is photo of the presumably original centerboard from our 1978 T27-2. Pivot hole?at left, pennant hole at top middle. The cutaway sections were made to check on internal corrosion, of which there was?plenty. The board was also badly delaminated near the corrosion. We?bought a?new centerboard from the factory, which is not yet installed. ? The dashed line on the cb indicates approximate location of the steel plate, as determined by sliding a strong magnet over the board. Note that there is no steel plate at the left end, which is basically the part of the board which stays in the centerboard trunk. My guess is the reason for no steel in that area?is in the event of a very hard sideways grounding, it would be preferable to break the board rather than the hull and/or the centerboard trunk. Might be worth checking with the Tartan factory on this. ? There is a brass or bronze disk embedded in the board?at the pivot hole.? ? If needed, I can supply more details on?this cb and/or the new one. ? Jack Wyman T27-2 Hull #667 "Seakindly" Manchester, Michigan [Image Removed] ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. =0 |
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Re: Centerboard replacement
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýAttached is photo of the presumably original centerboard
from our 1978 T27-2. Pivot hole?at left, pennant hole at top middle. The
cutaway sections were made to check on internal corrosion, of which there
was?plenty. The board was also badly delaminated near the corrosion.
We?bought a?new centerboard from the factory, which is not yet
installed.
?
The dashed line on the cb indicates approximate location
of the steel plate, as determined by sliding a strong magnet over the board.
Note that there is no steel plate at the left end, which is basically the part
of the board which stays in the centerboard trunk. My guess is the reason for no
steel in that area?is in the event of a very hard sideways grounding, it
would be preferable to break the board rather than the hull and/or the
centerboard trunk. Might be worth checking with the Tartan factory on
this.
?
There is a brass or bronze disk embedded in the
board?at the pivot hole.?
?
If needed, I can supply more details on?this cb
and/or the new one.
?
Jack Wyman
T27-2
Hull #667
"Seakindly"
Manchester, Michigan |
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Re: Centerboard replacement & apologies to mkstroup
If you could email me your plans for the CB that would be great. ? I have already given the go ahead to the metal shop to start making it out of 1/4" 316 marine Stainless. ? Steve ? 508-736-4404
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Re: Centerboard replacement & apologies to mkstroup
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýI have the files you
are looking for and I also have all the files from the old
site.
?
I also have a dead
half-ass centerboard, so I've been studying this.
?
The good news is
that the boat will sail just fine without it.? You get weather helm, which
the CB helps to eliminate.? However, with a vang, functioning outhaul, and
good downhaul/cunningham you can get the boat to point as well as it's going
to.
?
Please check your
pennant tube.? Mine was "sawed" halfway through.? The alignment of the
pennant is critical to preventing issues here.? I fashioned a bronze
bushing out of a pipe fitting to make the hole smaller and provide for some
sacrificial wear surface that isn't the boat.
?
Weight wise.?
Originally I was going to make a heavier board.? It turns out that the
weight in the CB is basically to ensure that it will drop down and not
wobble.?
?
I wanted to do a
narrower board.? I have mulled this with some friends that work at NASA and
discussed the fluid dynamics portion of it.? We've all concluded that the
front/back shape isn't really critical and that it won't produce meaningful lift
because it is an unbiased shape.? Both sides are the same shape so you
won't get the coriolis effect and thus you won't get lift.
?
One concern is to
make sure that if your boat were to go sideways that the board would
break.? Otherwise you could put a tremendous amount of pressure on your
centerboard trunk.? Of particular concern is the pipe that is used to mount
it to the bottom of the boat.? it's unlikely that the glass would hold it
securely and you'd wind up with a hole in your boat.
?
Email me directly if
you want the CB plans and drawings.? It includes instructions on how to
make it from #316 Stainless.? There are apparently several different types
of stainless and it gets very complicated choosing the type.? Make sure you
specify Marine grade or you'll wind up with something that fairs poorly in salt
water.
?
My personal plans at
the moment are to KISS.? I wanted to re-engineer it and I've concluded that
it's simpler to just build it from marine grade plywood or plastic (starboard or
acrylic), add weight to the bottom and be done with it.? A nice piece of
3/4" acrylic is particularly attractive in that it will never need painting and
would break before the boat.
?
If it works better I
can also upload it to t-27.com.
Thanks,
?
Brian Greul
Texas Shirt Company
713-802-0369 / 713-861-6261
(fax)
Targeted, Effective Promotions to help
you grow your brand
? |
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Re: Centerboard replacement & apologies to mkstroup
Dudley Wicker
I didn't expect so much so fast.
Yes to the line drawing of the centerboard. Please let me know how much you need to cover cost. I have already contacted a local company to cast the centerboard for us. My wife works for a local marine supply store. The owner has given us at least 116# of bronze propellers that are defective/broken for us to recast. I'm planning on making the wood copy for casting. If anybody would like to use it after I'm finished it will be available. Thanks! Dudley Wicker 4555 Palmer Drive West Valley City, UT 84120 ____________________________________________________________________________________ We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. |
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Re: Centerboard replacement & apologies to mkstroup
I do not plan on encasing the stainless, I plan on bottom painting it and installing plastic 1/2" strips along the sides to take up some of the space to prevent chatter.
? I do not like the original design, because of the de-lamination problems I believe the 316 stainless will hold up ok. ? My mew design will be kind of a blade CB, there are many boats that use this concept ? Steve
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Re: Centerboard replacement & apologies to mkstroup
Steve,
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Thanks for validating my memory somewhat. Someone did post a picture of the T27 c/b on a 1" grid and must have been you. There is a subtle similarity to your old screen names: SCook and CStroup, that my nearly 50 year old memory must have confused so my apologies to mkstroup. I believe that my c/b was about 1" thick when I checked this spring. Do you plan on encasing it in epoxy and cloth? I am not sure if mine has been replaced or is the original but it seems in pretty good shape. Caleb #328 Odalisque 1967 -----Original Message-----
From: cooksm@... To: t27owners@... Cc: mkstroup@... Sent: Tue, 15 May 2007 9:00 PM Subject: RE: [T27Owners] Centerboard replacement I Have Hull #220, and I too am replacing my centerboard,?my original CB?has de lamination problems. ? I am having a local metal fabricator make one out of 316 stainless (1/4")?at a cost of $800. ? I do have the CB photo layed out on a 1" grid, i will scan it and post it tomorrow. I also traced my CB and would be willing to mail the tracing to anyone who needs it. Steve Cook ? 508-736-4404 -------- To: T27Owners@... CC: MKSTROUP@... From: calebjess@... Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 19:42:31 -0400 Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard replacement Dudley, At the old tratan27owners.com someone with a user name of CStroup posted a photo of the centerboard aligned over a 1" grid. I am attempting to contact him to see if he can find this picture. Alternatively Ken may be able to find this photo but I would not be too hopeful of that as it was embedded in the Projects section of the old forum which has not been recovered. Tartanparts.com will graciously sell you a replacement for $1200 that takes 4-6 weeks for delivery. You might be able to talk to them and see if they will 'give' you the exact dimensions. I am going out on a limb here but I bet that you could get this made by a local metal working shop for well less than half of what they want. I can only assume that your old C/B is gone to the bottom of the ocean so you can't get the dimensions from it. On a related note I was finally able to paint our centerboard this spring after 4 years of ownership. I was surprised that it was in pretty good shape minus a ton of barnacle buildup (even in the lower Hudson River). It is pretty rectangular so it should be easy for a metal shop to fabricate. I could not tell if it was epoxied or just a metal that appeared to be at least 1" thick. The information.htm File on T27Owners says that the early models had a bronze centerboard as you already seem to know. I think that it weighs over 100#s. Not sure if this helps. Alternatively you might be able to get the exact dimensions from Sparkman & Stephens website as Olin Stephens was the designer of this boat. I believe that there is a link to S&S under the Links section. You can sail the boat without the centerboard but I would recommend you get a new one made as it adds ballast down low and helps the boat tack upwind among many other useful attributes that includes steering under power in tight spots. Good luck with this. We will try to help out as we can. Caleb #328 Odalisque -----Original Message----- From: kc7zik@... To: T27Owners@... Sent: Tue, 15 May 2007 5:25 PM Subject: [T27Owners] Centerboard replacement Hello, I need help in locating a drawing of centerboard for T27 hull#54. I want to recast a new one out of bronze. My wife and I purchased her last summer and are starting to work on things now. Thanks for any help Dudley __________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------- Download Messenger. Start an i conversation. Support a cause. Join Now! ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. =0 |
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Re: Centerboard replacement
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-----Original Message-----
From: cooksm@... To: t27owners@... Cc: mkstroup@... Sent: Tue, 15 May 2007 9:00 PM Subject: RE: [T27Owners] Centerboard replacement I Have Hull #220, and I too am replacing my centerboard,?my original CB?has de lamination problems. ? I am having a local metal fabricator make one out of 316 stainless (1/4")?at a cost of $800. ? I do have the CB photo layed out on a 1" grid, i will scan it and post it tomorrow. I also traced my CB and would be willing to mail the tracing to anyone who needs it. Steve Cook ? 508-736-4404 -------- To: T27Owners@... CC: MKSTROUP@... From: calebjess@... Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 19:42:31 -0400 Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard replacement Dudley, At the old tratan27owners.com someone with a user name of CStroup posted a photo of the centerboard aligned over a 1" grid. I am attempting to contact him to see if he can find this picture. Alternatively Ken may be able to find this photo but I would not be too hopeful of that as it was embedded in the Projects section of the old forum which has not been recovered. Tartanparts.com will graciously sell you a replacement for $1200 that takes 4-6 weeks for delivery. You might be able to talk to them and see if they will 'give' you the exact dimensions. I am going out on a limb here but I bet that you could get this made by a local metal working shop for well less than half of what they want. I can only assume that your old C/B is gone to the bottom of the ocean so you can't get the dimensions from it. On a related note I was finally able to paint our centerboard this spring after 4 years of ownership. I was surprised that it was in pretty good shape minus a ton of barnacle buildup (even in the lower Hudson River). It is pretty rectangular so it should be easy for a metal shop to fabricate. I could not tell if it was epoxied or just a metal that appeared to be at least 1" thick. The information.htm File on T27Owners says that the early models had a bronze centerboard as you already seem to know. I think that it weighs over 100#s. Not sure if this helps. Alternatively you might be able to get the exact dimensions from Sparkman & Stephens website as Olin Stephens was the designer of this boat. I believe that there is a link to S&S under the Links section. You can sail the boat without the centerboard but I would recommend you get a new one made as it adds ballast down low and helps the boat tack upwind among many other useful attributes that includes steering under power in tight spots. Good luck with this. We will try to help out as we can. Caleb #328 Odalisque -----Original Message----- From: kc7zik@... To: T27Owners@... Sent: Tue, 15 May 2007 5:25 PM Subject: [T27Owners] Centerboard replacement Hello, I need help in locating a drawing of centerboard for T27 hull#54. I want to recast a new one out of bronze. My wife and I purchased her last summer and are starting to work on things now. Thanks for any help Dudley __________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------- Download Messenger. Start an i conversation. Support a cause. Join Now! ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. =0 |
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Re: Centerboard replacement
I Have Hull #220, and I too am replacing my centerboard,?my original CB?has de lamination
problems. ? I am having a local metal fabricator make one out of 316 stainless (1/4")?at a cost of $800. ? I do have the CB photo layed out on a 1" grid, i will scan it and post it tomorrow. I also traced my CB and would be willing to mail the tracing to anyone who needs it. Steve Cook ? 508-736-4404
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Re: Centerboard replacement
Dudley,
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Show quoted text
At the old tratan27owners.com someone with a user name of CStroup posted a photo of the centerboard aligned over a 1" grid. I am attempting to contact him to see if he can find this picture. Alternatively Ken may be able to find this photo but I would not be too hopeful of that as it was embedded in the Projects section of the old forum which has not been recovered. Tartanparts.com will graciously sell you a replacement for $1200 that takes 4-6 weeks for delivery. You might be able to talk to them and see if they will 'give' you the exact dimensions. I am going out on a limb here but I bet that you could get this made by a local metal working shop for well less than half of what they want. I can only assume that your old C/B is gone to the bottom of the ocean so you can't get the dimensions from it. On a related note I was finally able to paint our centerboard this spring after 4 years of ownership. I was surprised that it was in pretty good shape minus a ton of barnacle buildup (even in the lower Hudson River). It is pretty rectangular so it should be easy for a metal shop to fabricate. I could not tell if it was epoxied or just a metal that appeared to be at least 1" thick. The information.htm File on T27Owners says that the early models had a bronze centerboard as you already seem to know. I think that it weighs over 100#s. Not sure if this helps. Alternatively you might be able to get the exact dimensions from Sparkman & Stephens website as Olin Stephens was the designer of this boat. I believe that there is a link to S&S under the Links section. You can sail the boat without the centerboard but I would recommend you get a new one made as it adds ballast down low and helps the boat tack upwind among many other useful attributes that includes steering under power in tight spots. Good luck with this. We will try to help out as we can. Caleb #328 Odalisque -----Original Message-----
From: kc7zik@... To: T27Owners@... Sent: Tue, 15 May 2007 5:25 PM Subject: [T27Owners] Centerboard replacement Hello, I need help in locating a drawing of centerboard for T27 hull#54. I want to recast a new one out of bronze. My wife and I purchased her last summer and are starting to work on things now. Thanks for any help Dudley ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. |
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Re: Centerboard replacement
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýHi Dudley----I own hull #535, Seannachie.?? I, too, have had the
same thought about casting a board out of bronze.?? What's more, there
is a small foundry in my town which will be losing its lease soon, but which has
much experience in large bronze castings, and might be willing to do the job if
we're not talking next year.?? They do a lot of those big seals on
courthouses, statuary, and such.?? Do you think others might be
interested?? I'm sure any foundry would be much more interested in casting
a dozen or so than just one.?? Any thoughts appreciated-----Warren
Stein See what's free at . |
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Re: Sails 4 Sale
Hi Bob,
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We'll definitely take the mainsail cover. Our current one is faded yellow which probably doesn't block much UV and clashes horribly with the dark green hull. What size is the genoa and what condition? Jack ----- Original Message -----
From: "hansgen10" <Hansgen10@...> To: <T27Owners@...> Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 8:30 PM Subject: [T27Owners] Sails 4 Sale I recently replaced my sails on our Tartan 27-2, and I have a serviceable set of sails. This |
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