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Re: Centerboard
Monica,
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Only an hour's drive to avoid a potential disaster? Sure, there will be glitches with your centerboard. But even an hour away, they'll be far easier to deal with than a boat on its side in your yard. Not to mention possible injuries or much, much worse.? See? and note how many times safety issues are addressed by?Master Shipwright Louis Sauzedde as he raises a?relatively small 22-foot fishing boat only a few inches off its trailer. Your Tartan is probably four times heavier and taller? Top-heavy. Think gravity at 32 feet per second per second.?In a near-instant way too many things can go hugely wrong with four tons of boat perched high on stands.? Here in Michigan, I've seen winterized sailboats with their keels (and weight) on the ground, braced with stands, yet laying on their side. Why? Conjecture was wet/soft earth and/or high winds. ? And even with all the time and precautions taken in the video, note the viewer comments below asking why opposite stands weren't chained together. This would be even more important with the continuously curved hull of your Tartan.? Please take your boat to a boatyard with a Travelift. Other than during the very busy putting in/taking out times, many(?) most(?) yards will give you time to work on your centerboard. Make sure the lifting straps are tied together. Jack Wyman T27-2 #667 Tartango Michigan ?? On Dec 10, 2017, at 2:02 PM, Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] wrote:
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Re: Centerboard
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýI am used to removing power boats from trailers. ?T 27 would be too ambitious for me.I¡¯d take it to a marina and get a short haul / possibly leaving it hang overnight, to give you some time and not take the travelift out of commission to Long Sent from my iPhone On Dec 10, 2017, at 10:42 AM, Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> wrote:
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Re: Centerboard
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýJack, ? ? ? ?Don¡¯t make things more complicated than they need be. The job is a piece of cake! When the corner of the board, tucks into the corner of the trunk. It basically aligns itself. Tepper the pin end slightly to help. Also look through the pin hole with a mirror and flashlight. Good luck, Rich Sent from my iPhone On Dec 10, 2017, at 9:47 AM, 'Jack T Grant' jack@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> wrote:
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Re: Centerboard
Wow ! thanks for the wealth of information. I have a lot of planing and designing to do over the winter. I really don't want to lose another centerboard.
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Monica Malone PsyD monicam@... -----Original Message-----
From: Richard Shearley rshearley@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 5:24 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard Initially we tried the chain plates on either side of the board that you see in a few pics. but there was going to be a lot of wear in the trunk with that design so we ended up with an old turnbuckle fitting. The thought was that the wire rope going through the board lead to the core getting wet and the steel plates swelling so we wanted a fitting that moved and was serviceable to solve that issue. I also think that there were two pieces of steel withing our board, one in the area of the pivot and one in the area of the pennant and this was a poor design. The smaller tube piece that you can see was supposed to float and keep chafe off the pennant. I wonder if it possible got jammed leading to the wire rope getting worn? The trunk opening was elongated to alleviate the apparent fore and aft movement of the pennant as the board was raised and lowered and stop the pennant chafe at either end of the throw. I believe the board was dropped when it was lost and the pennant parted and the shock force somehow broke the pivot area. I feel that the introduction of some kind of friction device that slows the dropping of the board would help shock loading and was on the drawing board prior to the boat changing owners. Installing the board from the top down is reasonable and there are solutions to capturing the pivot as it is installed in this manner. There have been discussions as to whether keeping the pivot bushing loose is a good idea to prevent over stressing that area as the board swings side to side. The original board design seems to keep the pin smaller than the pivot tube by a fairly large margin which makes sense. I did the same in the re-design... Let us know what you come up with and post pictures if you can... Rich. Rich Shearley From: "Richard Shearley rshearley@... [T27Owners]" <T27Owners@...> To: "T27Owners@..." <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard The smaller board on top in some of the pictures is the prototype new board design that would give better upwind performance... It never got tested but was a good design and is still around somewhere... Rich Shearley From: "Richard Shearley rshearley@... [T27Owners]" <T27Owners@...> To: "T27Owners@..." <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 4:57 PM Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard Yahoo! Groups Yahoo! Groups Rich Shearley From: "Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners]" <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners@... Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 4:24 PM Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard Thanks. I like the idea of putting a bushing there. Monica Malone PsyD monicam@... -----Original Message----- From: calebjess@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 4:04 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard Monica, I think what Richard is alluding to is the fact that the centerboard pennant (wire rope) angle changes as the board is lowered or raised. The wire pennant can act like a saw where the pennant exits into the trunk. I believe that Richard glassed in a sacrificial bronze bushing in this spot to stop the pennant from digging into the laminate as the board is raised and lowered. Caleb D. T27 #328 -----Original Message----- From: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 3:54 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard Thanks Richard. Why is it that I might want to enlarge the pennant exit ? Monica Malone PsyD monicam@... -----Original Message----- From: Richard F Shearley rshearley@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 3:38 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard If you have to reglass the pivot tube you should be fine doing the work from above.. the pennant exit could be enlarged at the same time. One project for Lola will be finding why the board was lost this year. I¡¯m hoping to spend some time with her new owner figuring out what happened. We need a board if anyone has one... plan B will be to make a new one that would have better NACA numbers as the original has poor hydrodynamic performance.. Using extra stands directly under bulkheads should allow you to briefly support the boat off the keel. The hull is capable of supporting the weight... jacking up under the keel is also a option. Richard Shearley On Dec 10, 2017, at 2:02 PM, Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> wrote: The fiberglass work does not concern me because I have a good friend who is a phenomenal fiberglass worker. He repaired the huge hole Sandy put in the boat & no amount of scrutiny reveals where that hole used to be. He is a perfectionist. However, working under that much weight, supported by jackstands, does concern me. The boat is on my property, so I would have to take it to a boatyard to have it lifted. I think the closest one that allows owners to work on their own boats is an hour away. I am assuming there will be glitches in this project & it would be easier to deal with them closer to home. Monica Malone PsyD monicam@... -----Original Message----- From: calebjess@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 1:19 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard Monica, When a boat is supported by jack stands the bulk of the weight is supported by the keel, not the jack stands. The jack stands merely keep the boat upright. I have heard of people digging a trench under the keel to access the centerboard trunk while the boat is held up by jack stands, assuming your boat yard is not paved in concrete ;-) One might also be able to put blocks under the keel while still allowing access to the centerboard trunk using jack stands to keep the boat in place. In any case moving your boat off your trailer would be necessary to access the slot from below. The safest way to access the centerboard trunk from the bottom is with a TravelLift or crane that can handle 4 tons of weight (our boats weigh around 7200 #s - a bit more than a Sunfish). The lifting straps would have to be positioned to allow access to the centerboard slot. I'd expect it might cost you somewhere around $500 to have your boat put in jack stands or have a crane or travel lift raise your boat for this job. The hull shapes between the type 1 & type 2 T27's should be identical. It is the deck and cabin that is different on the type 2. The thing that would most worry me about cutting the top off the centerboard slot, as you are contemplating, would be making the centerboard trunk air-tight again, since it is all below the water line. A good fiberglass technician should be able to do this though. If you proceed with this idea you would be able to easily inspect/replace the pivot pin as well as inspect/repair the hole that the lifting pennant requires. Good luck however you proceed. My best, Caleb Davison T27 #328 NY -----Original Message----- From: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 10:42 am Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard Thanks, Jack. you make it sound so easy. I need to put in a new pivot bushing, so suggestions are welcome on that. I'm still hung up on lifting the boat. The folks who have responded make it sound like you're discussing moving a Sunfish around. I'm thinking I have to get the boat off the trailer to get access to the centerboard slot. Are jackstands the way to do this ? I am also wondering if there are differences between the original and the type 2 that are relevant to this discussion. Mine is a type 2. I have to cut the inside fiberglass to get access to the pivot pin. So, since I have to do fiberglass repair anyway, I was thinking of cutting the whole top off the centerboard housing & dropping it in from the top. Monica Malone PsyD monicam@... -----Original Message----- From: 'Jack T Grant' jack@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 9:47 am Subject: RE: [T27Owners] Centerboard Monica, I have just finished updating and reinstalling the centerboard on #345 which was damaged and out of the boat when I purchased it. My advice is to install from the bottom (outside) . I can't imagine what you would have to go through on an internal installation but it would certainly be far more involved than lifting the boat 12" to 14" or digging a pit a comparable amount. w Secondly, if your centerboard is currently out of the boat, critically examine the pivot bushing for wear. Nor is the time and opportunity to upgrade a potential failure point. It also is an excellent time to examine how the pulley system works and attaches to the centerboard. Finally, remove the portion of the cabin floorboards and remove and inspect the centerboard pivot pin. Actual installation is relatively easy assuming you have adequate clearance, a couple of floor jacks and a strong friend. For we "first timers " it took about 45 minutes. I'm certain a boat yard could do it in a comparable amount of time at launching. However , it certainly is not a job a typical owner would find overwhelming, I would think the most critical element would be examining and updating the pivot bushing if required. Best regards, and good luck Jack Grant From: T27Owners@... [mailto:T27Owners@...] Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 12:36 AM To: T27Owners@... Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard Thanks, Caleb. I'm sure I'm going to need lots more advice once I get into this project. Monica Malone PsyD monicam@... -----Original Message----- From: calebjess@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:20 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard Monica, I have owned #328 for nearly 15 years now but have not had to do anything major with my centerboard other than scrape barnacles and paint it, so take this with a grain of salt. I also keep my boat on a cradle in the off season so the centerboard trunk is usually at least partially blocked as it might be on a trailer (eg, no downward movement possible). I think you could replace the board from inside the cabin but you would have to remove most of the top of the centerboard trunk to do so (limited space for manouvering the board). You might even have to jack you T27 up an inch or two off the trailer frame to get the board back in there from above. I have never heard of anyone doing it this way so I do not recommend it, but I am sure it is possible. Quite a few members here have replaced the centerboard from below and some would be glad to talk you through that operation (Marty Levenson has offered). My best, Caleb D. T27 #328 -----Original Message----- From: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:04 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard Yes, sinking the boat was not part of the plan. The boat is on a trailer. I don't know how to get it high enough to get the centerboard in from the bottom without taking it to a boatyard to use their lift. My thought was that doing the project on my property gives me more flexibility timewise to deal with the unexpected. I thought about digging a grease pit under the boat, but I'm sure the city would be there in a second demanding a building permit. Going in from the top would solve the access issue. Monica Malone PsyD monicam@... -----Original Message----- From: Marty Levenson martylev@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 10:38 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard I just did this last spring, but from the bottom. Hopefully you already know the boat has to be on the hard. I don¡¯t really see the advantage of doing it from the top. It wasn¡¯t that difficult to do, but had some good strong people below. It took a bit if wiggling around to get it aligned. In my case I needed new bushings for the pivot pin. Are you clear on all that, and how the pennant attaches? Not hard to do but a bit confusing until the penny drops. There was a bit of last minute adjustment as I had a bronze pin and custom machined bronze bushings ready to go. Unfortunately the glassed in (bronze?) fittings that the bushings were to sit in weren¡¯t quite aligned. Had to grind down two brass nipples to fit, but I know those won¡¯t last many years. Fire away with questions if you run into trouble: I had lots of help from this list, as well as on the phone from Tartan Marine. Marty Poseidon T27 Bowen Island, BC. www.vancouverarttherapy.com ? sent by carrier pidgeon ? On Dec 9, 2017, at 7:19 PM, monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> wrote: I have a beautifully refurbished centerboard ready to go in my boat. As I contemplate the difficult logistics of this, I'm wondering if anyone has installed one from the top ? I have a great fiberglassing resource, so sealing the trunk up again won't be a problem. |
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Re: Centerboard
Initially we tried the chain plates on either side of the board that you see in a few pics. but there was going to be a lot of wear in the trunk with that design so we ended up with an old turnbuckle fitting.The thought was that the wire rope going through the board lead to the core getting wet and the steel plates swelling so we wanted a fitting that moved and was serviceable to solve that issue.
I also think that there were two pieces of steel withing our board, one in the area of the pivot and one in the area of the pennant and this was a poor design. The smaller tube piece that you can see was supposed to float and keep chafe off the pennant. I wonder if it possible got jammed leading to the wire rope getting worn?The trunk opening was elongated to alleviate the apparent fore and aft movement of the pennant as the board was raised and lowered and stop the pennant chafe at either end of the throw. I believe the board was dropped when it was lost and the pennant parted and the shock force somehow broke the pivot area. I feel that the introduction of some kind of friction device that slows the dropping of the board would help shock loading and was on the drawing board prior to the boat changing owners.Installing the board from the top down is reasonable and there are solutions to capturing the pivot as it is installed in this manner.There have been discussions as to whether keeping the pivot bushing loose is a good idea to prevent over stressing that area as the board swings side to side. The original board design seems to keep the pin smaller than the pivot tube by a fairly large margin which makes sense. I did the same in the re-design...Let us know what you come up with and post pictures if you can...Rich. ?Rich Shearley From: "Richard Shearley rshearley@... [T27Owners]" <T27Owners@...> To: "T27Owners@..." <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard ? The smaller board on top in some of the pictures is the prototype new board design that would give better upwind performance... It never got tested but was a good design and is still around somewhere... ?Rich Shearley From: "Richard Shearley rshearley@... [T27Owners]" <T27Owners@...> To: "T27Owners@..." <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 4:57 PM Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard ? Yahoo! Groups | | | | | | | | | | | Yahoo! Groups | | | | ?Rich Shearley From: "Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners]" <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners@... Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 4:24 PM Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard ? Thanks. I like the idea of putting a bushing there. Monica Malone PsyD monicam@... -----Original Message----- From: calebjess@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 4:04 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard ? Monica, I think what Richard is alluding to is the fact that the centerboard pennant (wire rope) angle changes as the board is lowered or raised.? The wire pennant can act like a saw where the pennant exits into the trunk.? I believe that Richard glassed in a sacrificial bronze bushing in this spot to stop the pennant from digging into the laminate as the board is raised and lowered. Caleb D.T27 #328 -----Original Message----- From: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 3:54 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard Thanks Richard. Why is it that I might want to enlarge the pennant exit ? Monica Malone PsyD monicam@... -----Original Message----- From: Richard F Shearley rshearley@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 3:38 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard ? If you have to reglass the pivot tube you should be fine doing the work from above.. the pennant exit could be enlarged at the same time.One project for Lola will be finding why the board was lost this year.I¡¯m hoping to spend some time with her new owner figuring out what happened.We need a board if anyone has one... plan B will be to make a new one that would have better NACA numbers as the original has poor hydrodynamic performance..?Using extra stands directly under bulkheads should allow you to briefly support the boat off the keel. The hull is capable of supporting the weight... jacking up under the keel is also a option.? Richard Shearley On Dec 10, 2017, at 2:02 PM, Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> wrote: ? The fiberglass work does not concern me because I have a good friend who is a phenomenal fiberglass worker. He repaired the huge hole Sandy put in the boat & no amount of scrutiny reveals where that hole used to be. He is a perfectionist. However, working under that much weight, supported by jackstands, does concern me. The boat is on my property, so I would have to take it to a boatyard to have it lifted. I think the closest one that allows owners to work on their own boats is an hour away. I am assuming there will be glitches in this project & it would be easier to deal with them closer to home. Monica Malone PsyD monicam@... -----Original Message----- From: calebjess@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 1:19 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard ? Monica, When a boat is supported by jack stands the bulk of the weight is supported by the keel, not the jack stands.? The jack stands merely keep the boat upright.? I have heard of people digging a trench under the keel to access the centerboard trunk while the boat is held up by jack stands, assuming your boat yard is not paved in concrete ;-)? One might also be able to put blocks under the keel while still allowing access to the centerboard trunk using jack stands to keep the boat in place.? In any case moving your boat off your trailer would be necessary to access the slot from below. The safest way to access the centerboard trunk from the bottom is with a TravelLift or crane that can handle 4 tons of weight (our boats weigh around 7200 #s - a bit more than a Sunfish).? The lifting straps would have to be positioned to allow access to the centerboard slot.? I'd expect it might cost you somewhere around $500 to have your boat put in jack stands or have a crane or travel lift raise your boat for this job. The hull shapes between the type 1 & type 2 T27's should be identical.? It is the deck and cabin that is different on the type 2.? The thing that would most worry me about cutting the top off the centerboard slot, as you are contemplating, would be making the centerboard trunk air-tight again, since it is all below the water line.? A good fiberglass technician should be able to do this though.? If you proceed with this idea you would be able to easily inspect/replace the pivot pin as well as inspect/repair the hole that the lifting pennant requires. Good luck however you proceed. My best, Caleb Davison T27 #328 NY -----Original Message----- From: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 10:42 am Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard Thanks, Jack. you make it sound so easy. I need to put in a new pivot bushing, so suggestions are welcome on that. I'm still hung up on lifting the boat. The folks who have responded make it sound like you're discussing moving a Sunfish around. I'm thinking I have to get the boat off the trailer to get access to the centerboard slot. Are jackstands the way to do this ? I am also wondering if there are differences between the original and the type 2 that are relevant to this discussion. Mine is a type 2.? I have to cut the inside fiberglass to get access to the pivot pin. So, since I have to do fiberglass repair anyway, I was thinking of cutting the whole top off the centerboard housing & dropping it in from the top. Monica Malone PsyD monicam@... -----Original Message----- From: 'Jack T Grant' jack@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 9:47 am Subject: RE: [T27Owners] Centerboard ? Monica, I have just finished updating and ?reinstalling the centerboard on #345 which was damaged and out of the boat when I purchased it.??????????????? My advice is to install from the bottom (outside) . I can't imagine what you would have to go through on an internal installation but it would certainly be far more involved than lifting the boat 12" to 14" or digging a pit a comparable amount.w??????????? Secondly, if your centerboard is currently out of the boat, critically examine the pivot bushing for wear. Nor is the time and opportunity to upgrade a potential failure point. It also is an excellent time to examine how the pulley system works and attaches to the centerboard.??????????????? Finally, remove the portion of the cabin floorboards and remove and inspect the centerboard pivot ?pin.??????????????? Actual installation is relatively easy assuming you have adequate clearance, a couple of floor jacks and a strong friend. For we "first timers " it took about 45 minutes. I'm certain a boat yard could do it in a comparable amount of time at launching. However , it certainly is not a job a typical owner would find overwhelming, I would think the most critical element would be examining and updating the pivot bushing if required. ??????????????? ?Best regards, and good luck? Jack GrantFrom: T27Owners@... [mailto:T27Owners@...] Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 12:36 AM To: T27Owners@... Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard?? Thanks, Caleb. I'm sure I'm going to need lots more advice once I get into this project.Monica Malone PsyD monicam@...?-----Original Message----- From: calebjess@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:20 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard? Monica,?I have owned #328 for nearly 15 years now but have not had to do anything major with my centerboard other than scrape barnacles and paint it, so take this with a grain of salt.I also keep my boat on a cradle in the off season so the centerboard trunk is usually at least partially blocked as it might be on a trailer (eg, no downward movement possible).? I think you could replace the board from inside the cabin but you would have to remove most of the top of the centerboard trunk to do so (limited space for manouvering the board).? You might even have to jack you T27 up an inch or two off the trailer frame to get the board back in there from above.? I have never heard of anyone doing it this way so I do not recommend it, but I am sure it is possible.? Quite a few members here have replaced the centerboard from below and some would be glad to talk you through that operation (Marty Levenson has offered).?My best,Caleb D.T27 #328?????-----Original Message----- From: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:04 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard Yes, sinking the boat was not part of the plan. The boat is on a trailer. I don't know how to get it high enough to get the centerboard in from the bottom without taking it to a boatyard to use their lift. My thought was that doing the project on my property gives me more flexibility timewise to deal with the unexpected. I thought about digging a grease pit under the boat, but I'm sure the city would be there in a second demanding a building permit. Going in from the top would solve the access issue.Monica Malone PsyD monicam@... ?-----Original Message----- From: Marty Levenson martylev@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 10:38 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard? I just did this last spring, but from the bottom. Hopefully you already know the boat has to be on the hard. I don¡¯t really see the advantage of doing it from the top.??It wasn¡¯t that difficult to do, but had some good strong people below. It took a bit if wiggling around to get it aligned.??In my case I needed new bushings for the pivot pin. Are you clear on all that, and how the pennant attaches? Not hard to do but a bit confusing until the penny drops.??There was a bit of last minute adjustment as I had a bronze pin and custom machined bronze bushings ready to go. Unfortunately the glassed in (bronze?) fittings that the bushings were to sit in weren¡¯t quite aligned. Had to grind down two brass nipples to fit, but I know those won¡¯t last many years.??Fire away with questions if you run into trouble: I had lots of help from this list, as well as on the phone from Tartan Marine.?MartyPoseidon T27?Bowen Island, BC.??www.vancouverarttherapy.com?? sent by carrier pidgeon ? On Dec 9, 2017, at 7:19 PM, monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> wrote: ? I have a beautifully refurbished centerboard ready to go in my boat. As I contemplate the difficult logistics of this, I'm wondering if anyone has installed one from the top ? I have a great fiberglassing resource, so sealing the trunk up again won't be a problem. ? #yiv9819832438 #yiv9819832438 -- #yiv9819832438ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv9819832438 #yiv9819832438ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv9819832438 #yiv9819832438ygrp-mkp #yiv9819832438hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv9819832438 #yiv9819832438ygrp-mkp #yiv9819832438ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv9819832438 #yiv9819832438ygrp-mkp .yiv9819832438ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv9819832438 #yiv9819832438ygrp-mkp .yiv9819832438ad p {margin:0;}#yiv9819832438 #yiv9819832438ygrp-mkp .yiv9819832438ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv9819832438 #yiv9819832438ygrp-sponsor #yiv9819832438ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv9819832438 #yiv9819832438ygrp-sponsor #yiv9819832438ygrp-lc #yiv9819832438hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv9819832438 #yiv9819832438ygrp-sponsor 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Re: Centerboard
The smaller board on top in some of the pictures is the prototype new board design that would give better upwind performance... It never got tested but was a good design and is still around somewhere...
?Rich Shearley From: "Richard Shearley rshearley@... [T27Owners]" <T27Owners@...> To: "T27Owners@..." <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 4:57 PM Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard ? Yahoo! Groups | | | | | | | | | | | Yahoo! Groups | | | | ?Rich Shearley From: "Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners]" <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners@... Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 4:24 PM Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard ? Thanks. I like the idea of putting a bushing there. Monica Malone PsyD monicam@... -----Original Message----- From: calebjess@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 4:04 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard ? Monica, I think what Richard is alluding to is the fact that the centerboard pennant (wire rope) angle changes as the board is lowered or raised.? The wire pennant can act like a saw where the pennant exits into the trunk.? I believe that Richard glassed in a sacrificial bronze bushing in this spot to stop the pennant from digging into the laminate as the board is raised and lowered. Caleb D.T27 #328 -----Original Message----- From: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 3:54 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard Thanks Richard. Why is it that I might want to enlarge the pennant exit ? Monica Malone PsyD monicam@... -----Original Message----- From: Richard F Shearley rshearley@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 3:38 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard ? If you have to reglass the pivot tube you should be fine doing the work from above.. the pennant exit could be enlarged at the same time.One project for Lola will be finding why the board was lost this year.I¡¯m hoping to spend some time with her new owner figuring out what happened.We need a board if anyone has one... plan B will be to make a new one that would have better NACA numbers as the original has poor hydrodynamic performance..?Using extra stands directly under bulkheads should allow you to briefly support the boat off the keel. The hull is capable of supporting the weight... jacking up under the keel is also a option.? Richard Shearley On Dec 10, 2017, at 2:02 PM, Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> wrote: ? The fiberglass work does not concern me because I have a good friend who is a phenomenal fiberglass worker. He repaired the huge hole Sandy put in the boat & no amount of scrutiny reveals where that hole used to be. He is a perfectionist. However, working under that much weight, supported by jackstands, does concern me. The boat is on my property, so I would have to take it to a boatyard to have it lifted. I think the closest one that allows owners to work on their own boats is an hour away. I am assuming there will be glitches in this project & it would be easier to deal with them closer to home. Monica Malone PsyD monicam@... -----Original Message----- From: calebjess@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 1:19 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard ? Monica, When a boat is supported by jack stands the bulk of the weight is supported by the keel, not the jack stands.? The jack stands merely keep the boat upright.? I have heard of people digging a trench under the keel to access the centerboard trunk while the boat is held up by jack stands, assuming your boat yard is not paved in concrete ;-)? One might also be able to put blocks under the keel while still allowing access to the centerboard trunk using jack stands to keep the boat in place.? In any case moving your boat off your trailer would be necessary to access the slot from below. The safest way to access the centerboard trunk from the bottom is with a TravelLift or crane that can handle 4 tons of weight (our boats weigh around 7200 #s - a bit more than a Sunfish).? The lifting straps would have to be positioned to allow access to the centerboard slot.? I'd expect it might cost you somewhere around $500 to have your boat put in jack stands or have a crane or travel lift raise your boat for this job. The hull shapes between the type 1 & type 2 T27's should be identical.? It is the deck and cabin that is different on the type 2.? The thing that would most worry me about cutting the top off the centerboard slot, as you are contemplating, would be making the centerboard trunk air-tight again, since it is all below the water line.? A good fiberglass technician should be able to do this though.? If you proceed with this idea you would be able to easily inspect/replace the pivot pin as well as inspect/repair the hole that the lifting pennant requires. Good luck however you proceed. My best, Caleb Davison T27 #328 NY -----Original Message----- From: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 10:42 am Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard Thanks, Jack. you make it sound so easy. I need to put in a new pivot bushing, so suggestions are welcome on that. I'm still hung up on lifting the boat. The folks who have responded make it sound like you're discussing moving a Sunfish around. I'm thinking I have to get the boat off the trailer to get access to the centerboard slot. Are jackstands the way to do this ? I am also wondering if there are differences between the original and the type 2 that are relevant to this discussion. Mine is a type 2.? I have to cut the inside fiberglass to get access to the pivot pin. So, since I have to do fiberglass repair anyway, I was thinking of cutting the whole top off the centerboard housing & dropping it in from the top. Monica Malone PsyD monicam@... -----Original Message----- From: 'Jack T Grant' jack@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 9:47 am Subject: RE: [T27Owners] Centerboard ? Monica, I have just finished updating and ?reinstalling the centerboard on #345 which was damaged and out of the boat when I purchased it.??????????????? My advice is to install from the bottom (outside) . I can't imagine what you would have to go through on an internal installation but it would certainly be far more involved than lifting the boat 12" to 14" or digging a pit a comparable amount.w??????????? Secondly, if your centerboard is currently out of the boat, critically examine the pivot bushing for wear. Nor is the time and opportunity to upgrade a potential failure point. It also is an excellent time to examine how the pulley system works and attaches to the centerboard.??????????????? Finally, remove the portion of the cabin floorboards and remove and inspect the centerboard pivot ?pin.??????????????? Actual installation is relatively easy assuming you have adequate clearance, a couple of floor jacks and a strong friend. For we "first timers " it took about 45 minutes. I'm certain a boat yard could do it in a comparable amount of time at launching. However , it certainly is not a job a typical owner would find overwhelming, I would think the most critical element would be examining and updating the pivot bushing if required. ??????????????? ?Best regards, and good luck? Jack GrantFrom: T27Owners@... [mailto:T27Owners@...] Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 12:36 AM To: T27Owners@... Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard?? Thanks, Caleb. I'm sure I'm going to need lots more advice once I get into this project.Monica Malone PsyD monicam@...?-----Original Message----- From: calebjess@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:20 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard? Monica,?I have owned #328 for nearly 15 years now but have not had to do anything major with my centerboard other than scrape barnacles and paint it, so take this with a grain of salt.I also keep my boat on a cradle in the off season so the centerboard trunk is usually at least partially blocked as it might be on a trailer (eg, no downward movement possible).? I think you could replace the board from inside the cabin but you would have to remove most of the top of the centerboard trunk to do so (limited space for manouvering the board).? You might even have to jack you T27 up an inch or two off the trailer frame to get the board back in there from above.? I have never heard of anyone doing it this way so I do not recommend it, but I am sure it is possible.? Quite a few members here have replaced the centerboard from below and some would be glad to talk you through that operation (Marty Levenson has offered).?My best,Caleb D.T27 #328?????-----Original Message----- From: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:04 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard Yes, sinking the boat was not part of the plan. The boat is on a trailer. I don't know how to get it high enough to get the centerboard in from the bottom without taking it to a boatyard to use their lift. My thought was that doing the project on my property gives me more flexibility timewise to deal with the unexpected. I thought about digging a grease pit under the boat, but I'm sure the city would be there in a second demanding a building permit. Going in from the top would solve the access issue.Monica Malone PsyD monicam@... ?-----Original Message----- From: Marty Levenson martylev@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 10:38 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard? I just did this last spring, but from the bottom. Hopefully you already know the boat has to be on the hard. I don¡¯t really see the advantage of doing it from the top.??It wasn¡¯t that difficult to do, but had some good strong people below. It took a bit if wiggling around to get it aligned.??In my case I needed new bushings for the pivot pin. Are you clear on all that, and how the pennant attaches? Not hard to do but a bit confusing until the penny drops.??There was a bit of last minute adjustment as I had a bronze pin and custom machined bronze bushings ready to go. Unfortunately the glassed in (bronze?) fittings that the bushings were to sit in weren¡¯t quite aligned. Had to grind down two brass nipples to fit, but I know those won¡¯t last many years.??Fire away with questions if you run into trouble: I had lots of help from this list, as well as on the phone from Tartan Marine.?MartyPoseidon T27?Bowen Island, BC.??www.vancouverarttherapy.com?? sent by carrier pidgeon ? On Dec 9, 2017, at 7:19 PM, monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> wrote: ? I have a beautifully refurbished centerboard ready to go in my boat. As I contemplate the difficult logistics of this, I'm wondering if anyone has installed one from the top ? I have a great fiberglassing resource, so sealing the trunk up again won't be a problem. ? #yiv5200131620 #yiv5200131620 -- #yiv5200131620ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv5200131620 #yiv5200131620ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv5200131620 #yiv5200131620ygrp-mkp #yiv5200131620hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv5200131620 #yiv5200131620ygrp-mkp #yiv5200131620ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv5200131620 #yiv5200131620ygrp-mkp .yiv5200131620ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv5200131620 #yiv5200131620ygrp-mkp .yiv5200131620ad p {margin:0;}#yiv5200131620 #yiv5200131620ygrp-mkp .yiv5200131620ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv5200131620 #yiv5200131620ygrp-sponsor #yiv5200131620ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv5200131620 #yiv5200131620ygrp-sponsor #yiv5200131620ygrp-lc #yiv5200131620hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv5200131620 #yiv5200131620ygrp-sponsor 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Re: Centerboard
Ifyou click on the big yahoo banner it should open the photo folder to the repair..
?Rich Shearley From: "Richard Shearley rshearley@... [T27Owners]" <T27Owners@...> To: "T27Owners@..." <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 4:57 PM Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard ? Yahoo! Groups | | | | | | | | | | | Yahoo! Groups | | | | ?Rich Shearley From: "Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners]" <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners@... Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 4:24 PM Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard ? Thanks. I like the idea of putting a bushing there. Monica Malone PsyD monicam@... -----Original Message----- From: calebjess@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 4:04 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard ? Monica, I think what Richard is alluding to is the fact that the centerboard pennant (wire rope) angle changes as the board is lowered or raised.? The wire pennant can act like a saw where the pennant exits into the trunk.? I believe that Richard glassed in a sacrificial bronze bushing in this spot to stop the pennant from digging into the laminate as the board is raised and lowered. Caleb D.T27 #328 -----Original Message----- From: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 3:54 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard Thanks Richard. Why is it that I might want to enlarge the pennant exit ? Monica Malone PsyD monicam@... -----Original Message----- From: Richard F Shearley rshearley@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 3:38 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard ? If you have to reglass the pivot tube you should be fine doing the work from above.. the pennant exit could be enlarged at the same time.One project for Lola will be finding why the board was lost this year.I¡¯m hoping to spend some time with her new owner figuring out what happened.We need a board if anyone has one... plan B will be to make a new one that would have better NACA numbers as the original has poor hydrodynamic performance..?Using extra stands directly under bulkheads should allow you to briefly support the boat off the keel. The hull is capable of supporting the weight... jacking up under the keel is also a option.? Richard Shearley On Dec 10, 2017, at 2:02 PM, Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> wrote: ? The fiberglass work does not concern me because I have a good friend who is a phenomenal fiberglass worker. He repaired the huge hole Sandy put in the boat & no amount of scrutiny reveals where that hole used to be. He is a perfectionist. However, working under that much weight, supported by jackstands, does concern me. The boat is on my property, so I would have to take it to a boatyard to have it lifted. I think the closest one that allows owners to work on their own boats is an hour away. I am assuming there will be glitches in this project & it would be easier to deal with them closer to home. Monica Malone PsyD monicam@... -----Original Message----- From: calebjess@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 1:19 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard ? Monica, When a boat is supported by jack stands the bulk of the weight is supported by the keel, not the jack stands.? The jack stands merely keep the boat upright.? I have heard of people digging a trench under the keel to access the centerboard trunk while the boat is held up by jack stands, assuming your boat yard is not paved in concrete ;-)? One might also be able to put blocks under the keel while still allowing access to the centerboard trunk using jack stands to keep the boat in place.? In any case moving your boat off your trailer would be necessary to access the slot from below. The safest way to access the centerboard trunk from the bottom is with a TravelLift or crane that can handle 4 tons of weight (our boats weigh around 7200 #s - a bit more than a Sunfish).? The lifting straps would have to be positioned to allow access to the centerboard slot.? I'd expect it might cost you somewhere around $500 to have your boat put in jack stands or have a crane or travel lift raise your boat for this job. The hull shapes between the type 1 & type 2 T27's should be identical.? It is the deck and cabin that is different on the type 2.? The thing that would most worry me about cutting the top off the centerboard slot, as you are contemplating, would be making the centerboard trunk air-tight again, since it is all below the water line.? A good fiberglass technician should be able to do this though.? If you proceed with this idea you would be able to easily inspect/replace the pivot pin as well as inspect/repair the hole that the lifting pennant requires. Good luck however you proceed. My best, Caleb Davison T27 #328 NY -----Original Message----- From: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 10:42 am Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard Thanks, Jack. you make it sound so easy. I need to put in a new pivot bushing, so suggestions are welcome on that. I'm still hung up on lifting the boat. The folks who have responded make it sound like you're discussing moving a Sunfish around. I'm thinking I have to get the boat off the trailer to get access to the centerboard slot. Are jackstands the way to do this ? I am also wondering if there are differences between the original and the type 2 that are relevant to this discussion. Mine is a type 2.? I have to cut the inside fiberglass to get access to the pivot pin. So, since I have to do fiberglass repair anyway, I was thinking of cutting the whole top off the centerboard housing & dropping it in from the top. Monica Malone PsyD monicam@... -----Original Message----- From: 'Jack T Grant' jack@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 9:47 am Subject: RE: [T27Owners] Centerboard ? Monica, I have just finished updating and ?reinstalling the centerboard on #345 which was damaged and out of the boat when I purchased it.??????????????? My advice is to install from the bottom (outside) . I can't imagine what you would have to go through on an internal installation but it would certainly be far more involved than lifting the boat 12" to 14" or digging a pit a comparable amount.w??????????? Secondly, if your centerboard is currently out of the boat, critically examine the pivot bushing for wear. Nor is the time and opportunity to upgrade a potential failure point. It also is an excellent time to examine how the pulley system works and attaches to the centerboard.??????????????? Finally, remove the portion of the cabin floorboards and remove and inspect the centerboard pivot ?pin.??????????????? Actual installation is relatively easy assuming you have adequate clearance, a couple of floor jacks and a strong friend. For we "first timers " it took about 45 minutes. I'm certain a boat yard could do it in a comparable amount of time at launching. However , it certainly is not a job a typical owner would find overwhelming, I would think the most critical element would be examining and updating the pivot bushing if required. ??????????????? ?Best regards, and good luck? Jack GrantFrom: T27Owners@... [mailto:T27Owners@...] Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 12:36 AM To: T27Owners@... Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard?? Thanks, Caleb. I'm sure I'm going to need lots more advice once I get into this project.Monica Malone PsyD monicam@...?-----Original Message----- From: calebjess@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:20 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard? Monica,?I have owned #328 for nearly 15 years now but have not had to do anything major with my centerboard other than scrape barnacles and paint it, so take this with a grain of salt.I also keep my boat on a cradle in the off season so the centerboard trunk is usually at least partially blocked as it might be on a trailer (eg, no downward movement possible).? I think you could replace the board from inside the cabin but you would have to remove most of the top of the centerboard trunk to do so (limited space for manouvering the board).? You might even have to jack you T27 up an inch or two off the trailer frame to get the board back in there from above.? I have never heard of anyone doing it this way so I do not recommend it, but I am sure it is possible.? Quite a few members here have replaced the centerboard from below and some would be glad to talk you through that operation (Marty Levenson has offered).?My best,Caleb D.T27 #328?????-----Original Message----- From: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:04 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard Yes, sinking the boat was not part of the plan. The boat is on a trailer. I don't know how to get it high enough to get the centerboard in from the bottom without taking it to a boatyard to use their lift. My thought was that doing the project on my property gives me more flexibility timewise to deal with the unexpected. I thought about digging a grease pit under the boat, but I'm sure the city would be there in a second demanding a building permit. Going in from the top would solve the access issue.Monica Malone PsyD monicam@... ?-----Original Message----- From: Marty Levenson martylev@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 10:38 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard? I just did this last spring, but from the bottom. Hopefully you already know the boat has to be on the hard. I don¡¯t really see the advantage of doing it from the top.??It wasn¡¯t that difficult to do, but had some good strong people below. It took a bit if wiggling around to get it aligned.??In my case I needed new bushings for the pivot pin. Are you clear on all that, and how the pennant attaches? Not hard to do but a bit confusing until the penny drops.??There was a bit of last minute adjustment as I had a bronze pin and custom machined bronze bushings ready to go. Unfortunately the glassed in (bronze?) fittings that the bushings were to sit in weren¡¯t quite aligned. Had to grind down two brass nipples to fit, but I know those won¡¯t last many years.??Fire away with questions if you run into trouble: I had lots of help from this list, as well as on the phone from Tartan Marine.?MartyPoseidon T27?Bowen Island, BC.??www.vancouverarttherapy.com?? sent by carrier pidgeon ? On Dec 9, 2017, at 7:19 PM, monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> wrote: ? I have a beautifully refurbished centerboard ready to go in my boat. As I contemplate the difficult logistics of this, I'm wondering if anyone has installed one from the top ? I have a great fiberglassing resource, so sealing the trunk up again won't be a problem. ? #yiv5200131620 #yiv5200131620 -- #yiv5200131620ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv5200131620 #yiv5200131620ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv5200131620 #yiv5200131620ygrp-mkp #yiv5200131620hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv5200131620 #yiv5200131620ygrp-mkp #yiv5200131620ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv5200131620 #yiv5200131620ygrp-mkp .yiv5200131620ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv5200131620 #yiv5200131620ygrp-mkp .yiv5200131620ad p {margin:0;}#yiv5200131620 #yiv5200131620ygrp-mkp .yiv5200131620ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv5200131620 #yiv5200131620ygrp-sponsor #yiv5200131620ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv5200131620 #yiv5200131620ygrp-sponsor #yiv5200131620ygrp-lc #yiv5200131620hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv5200131620 #yiv5200131620ygrp-sponsor 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Re: Centerboard
Yahoo! Groups
| | | | | | | | | | | Yahoo! Groups | | | | ?Rich Shearley From: "Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners]" <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners@... Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 4:24 PM Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard ? Thanks. I like the idea of putting a bushing there. Monica Malone PsyD monicam@... -----Original Message----- From: calebjess@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 4:04 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard ? Monica, I think what Richard is alluding to is the fact that the centerboard pennant (wire rope) angle changes as the board is lowered or raised.? The wire pennant can act like a saw where the pennant exits into the trunk.? I believe that Richard glassed in a sacrificial bronze bushing in this spot to stop the pennant from digging into the laminate as the board is raised and lowered. Caleb D.T27 #328 -----Original Message----- From: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 3:54 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard Thanks Richard. Why is it that I might want to enlarge the pennant exit ? Monica Malone PsyD monicam@... -----Original Message----- From: Richard F Shearley rshearley@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 3:38 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard ? If you have to reglass the pivot tube you should be fine doing the work from above.. the pennant exit could be enlarged at the same time.One project for Lola will be finding why the board was lost this year.I¡¯m hoping to spend some time with her new owner figuring out what happened.We need a board if anyone has one... plan B will be to make a new one that would have better NACA numbers as the original has poor hydrodynamic performance..?Using extra stands directly under bulkheads should allow you to briefly support the boat off the keel. The hull is capable of supporting the weight... jacking up under the keel is also a option.? Richard Shearley On Dec 10, 2017, at 2:02 PM, Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> wrote: ? The fiberglass work does not concern me because I have a good friend who is a phenomenal fiberglass worker. He repaired the huge hole Sandy put in the boat & no amount of scrutiny reveals where that hole used to be. He is a perfectionist. However, working under that much weight, supported by jackstands, does concern me. The boat is on my property, so I would have to take it to a boatyard to have it lifted. I think the closest one that allows owners to work on their own boats is an hour away. I am assuming there will be glitches in this project & it would be easier to deal with them closer to home. Monica Malone PsyD monicam@... -----Original Message----- From: calebjess@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 1:19 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard ? Monica, When a boat is supported by jack stands the bulk of the weight is supported by the keel, not the jack stands.? The jack stands merely keep the boat upright.? I have heard of people digging a trench under the keel to access the centerboard trunk while the boat is held up by jack stands, assuming your boat yard is not paved in concrete ;-)? One might also be able to put blocks under the keel while still allowing access to the centerboard trunk using jack stands to keep the boat in place.? In any case moving your boat off your trailer would be necessary to access the slot from below. The safest way to access the centerboard trunk from the bottom is with a TravelLift or crane that can handle 4 tons of weight (our boats weigh around 7200 #s - a bit more than a Sunfish).? The lifting straps would have to be positioned to allow access to the centerboard slot.? I'd expect it might cost you somewhere around $500 to have your boat put in jack stands or have a crane or travel lift raise your boat for this job. The hull shapes between the type 1 & type 2 T27's should be identical.? It is the deck and cabin that is different on the type 2.? The thing that would most worry me about cutting the top off the centerboard slot, as you are contemplating, would be making the centerboard trunk air-tight again, since it is all below the water line.? A good fiberglass technician should be able to do this though.? If you proceed with this idea you would be able to easily inspect/replace the pivot pin as well as inspect/repair the hole that the lifting pennant requires. Good luck however you proceed. My best, Caleb Davison T27 #328 NY -----Original Message----- From: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 10:42 am Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard Thanks, Jack. you make it sound so easy. I need to put in a new pivot bushing, so suggestions are welcome on that. I'm still hung up on lifting the boat. The folks who have responded make it sound like you're discussing moving a Sunfish around. I'm thinking I have to get the boat off the trailer to get access to the centerboard slot. Are jackstands the way to do this ? I am also wondering if there are differences between the original and the type 2 that are relevant to this discussion. Mine is a type 2.? I have to cut the inside fiberglass to get access to the pivot pin. So, since I have to do fiberglass repair anyway, I was thinking of cutting the whole top off the centerboard housing & dropping it in from the top. Monica Malone PsyD monicam@... -----Original Message----- From: 'Jack T Grant' jack@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 9:47 am Subject: RE: [T27Owners] Centerboard ? Monica, I have just finished updating and ?reinstalling the centerboard on #345 which was damaged and out of the boat when I purchased it.??????????????? My advice is to install from the bottom (outside) . I can't imagine what you would have to go through on an internal installation but it would certainly be far more involved than lifting the boat 12" to 14" or digging a pit a comparable amount.w??????????? Secondly, if your centerboard is currently out of the boat, critically examine the pivot bushing for wear. Nor is the time and opportunity to upgrade a potential failure point. It also is an excellent time to examine how the pulley system works and attaches to the centerboard.??????????????? Finally, remove the portion of the cabin floorboards and remove and inspect the centerboard pivot ?pin.??????????????? Actual installation is relatively easy assuming you have adequate clearance, a couple of floor jacks and a strong friend. For we "first timers " it took about 45 minutes. I'm certain a boat yard could do it in a comparable amount of time at launching. However , it certainly is not a job a typical owner would find overwhelming, I would think the most critical element would be examining and updating the pivot bushing if required. ??????????????? ?Best regards, and good luck? Jack GrantFrom: T27Owners@... [mailto:T27Owners@...] Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 12:36 AM To: T27Owners@... Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard?? Thanks, Caleb. I'm sure I'm going to need lots more advice once I get into this project.Monica Malone PsyD monicam@...?-----Original Message----- From: calebjess@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:20 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard? Monica,?I have owned #328 for nearly 15 years now but have not had to do anything major with my centerboard other than scrape barnacles and paint it, so take this with a grain of salt.I also keep my boat on a cradle in the off season so the centerboard trunk is usually at least partially blocked as it might be on a trailer (eg, no downward movement possible).? I think you could replace the board from inside the cabin but you would have to remove most of the top of the centerboard trunk to do so (limited space for manouvering the board).? You might even have to jack you T27 up an inch or two off the trailer frame to get the board back in there from above.? I have never heard of anyone doing it this way so I do not recommend it, but I am sure it is possible.? Quite a few members here have replaced the centerboard from below and some would be glad to talk you through that operation (Marty Levenson has offered).?My best,Caleb D.T27 #328?????-----Original Message----- From: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:04 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard Yes, sinking the boat was not part of the plan. The boat is on a trailer. I don't know how to get it high enough to get the centerboard in from the bottom without taking it to a boatyard to use their lift. My thought was that doing the project on my property gives me more flexibility timewise to deal with the unexpected. I thought about digging a grease pit under the boat, but I'm sure the city would be there in a second demanding a building permit. Going in from the top would solve the access issue.Monica Malone PsyD monicam@... ?-----Original Message----- From: Marty Levenson martylev@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 10:38 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard? I just did this last spring, but from the bottom. Hopefully you already know the boat has to be on the hard. I don¡¯t really see the advantage of doing it from the top.??It wasn¡¯t that difficult to do, but had some good strong people below. It took a bit if wiggling around to get it aligned.??In my case I needed new bushings for the pivot pin. Are you clear on all that, and how the pennant attaches? Not hard to do but a bit confusing until the penny drops.??There was a bit of last minute adjustment as I had a bronze pin and custom machined bronze bushings ready to go. Unfortunately the glassed in (bronze?) fittings that the bushings were to sit in weren¡¯t quite aligned. Had to grind down two brass nipples to fit, but I know those won¡¯t last many years.??Fire away with questions if you run into trouble: I had lots of help from this list, as well as on the phone from Tartan Marine.?MartyPoseidon T27?Bowen Island, BC.??www.vancouverarttherapy.com?? sent by carrier pidgeon ? On Dec 9, 2017, at 7:19 PM, monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> wrote: ? I have a beautifully refurbished centerboard ready to go in my boat. As I contemplate the difficult logistics of this, I'm wondering if anyone has installed one from the top ? I have a great fiberglassing resource, so sealing the trunk up again won't be a problem. ? #yiv2020520846 #yiv2020520846 -- #yiv2020520846ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv2020520846 #yiv2020520846ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv2020520846 #yiv2020520846ygrp-mkp #yiv2020520846hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv2020520846 #yiv2020520846ygrp-mkp #yiv2020520846ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv2020520846 #yiv2020520846ygrp-mkp .yiv2020520846ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv2020520846 #yiv2020520846ygrp-mkp .yiv2020520846ad p {margin:0;}#yiv2020520846 #yiv2020520846ygrp-mkp .yiv2020520846ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv2020520846 #yiv2020520846ygrp-sponsor #yiv2020520846ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv2020520846 #yiv2020520846ygrp-sponsor #yiv2020520846ygrp-lc #yiv2020520846hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv2020520846 #yiv2020520846ygrp-sponsor 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Re: Centerboard
Thanks. I like the idea of putting a bushing there.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@... -----Original Message----- From: calebjess@... [T27Owners] To: T27Owners Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 4:04 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard
?
Monica,
I think what Richard is alluding to is the fact that the centerboard pennant (wire rope) angle changes as the board is lowered or raised.? The wire pennant can act like a saw where the pennant exits into the trunk.?
I believe that Richard glassed in a sacrificial bronze bushing in this spot to stop the pennant from digging into the laminate as the board is raised and lowered.
Caleb D.
T27 #328
-----Original Message-----
From: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 3:54 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard Thanks Richard. Why is it that I might want to enlarge the pennant exit ? -----Original Message-----
From: Richard F Shearley rshearley@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 3:38 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard
?
If you have to reglass the pivot tube you should be fine doing the work from above.. the pennant exit could be enlarged at the same time.
One project for Lola will be finding why the board was lost this year.
I¡¯m hoping to spend some time with her new owner figuring out what happened.
We need a board if anyone has one... plan B will be to make a new one that would have better NACA numbers as the original has poor hydrodynamic performance..?
Using extra stands directly under bulkheads should allow you to briefly support the boat off the keel. The hull is capable of supporting the weight... jacking up under the keel is also a option.?
Richard Shearley
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Re: Centerboard
Monica,
I think what Richard is alluding to is the fact that the centerboard pennant (wire rope) angle changes as the board is lowered or raised.? The wire pennant can act like a saw where the pennant exits into the trunk.?
I believe that Richard glassed in a sacrificial bronze bushing in this spot to stop the pennant from digging into the laminate as the board is raised and lowered.
Caleb D.
T27 #328
-----Original Message-----
From: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] To: T27Owners Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 3:54 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard Thanks Richard. Why is it that I might want to enlarge the pennant exit ? -----Original Message-----
From: Richard F Shearley rshearley@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 3:38 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard
?
If you have to reglass the pivot tube you should be fine doing the work from above.. the pennant exit could be enlarged at the same time.
One project for Lola will be finding why the board was lost this year.
I¡¯m hoping to spend some time with her new owner figuring out what happened.
We need a board if anyone has one... plan B will be to make a new one that would have better NACA numbers as the original has poor hydrodynamic performance..?
Using extra stands directly under bulkheads should allow you to briefly support the boat off the keel. The hull is capable of supporting the weight... jacking up under the keel is also a option.?
Richard Shearley
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Re: Centerboard
Thanks Richard. Why is it that I might want to enlarge the pennant exit ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@... -----Original Message----- From: Richard F Shearley rshearley@... [T27Owners] To: T27Owners Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 3:38 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard
?
If you have to reglass the pivot tube you should be fine doing the work from above.. the pennant exit could be enlarged at the same time.
One project for Lola will be finding why the board was lost this year.
I¡¯m hoping to spend some time with her new owner figuring out what happened.
We need a board if anyone has one... plan B will be to make a new one that would have better NACA numbers as the original has poor hydrodynamic performance..?
Using extra stands directly under bulkheads should allow you to briefly support the boat off the keel. The hull is capable of supporting the weight... jacking up under the keel is also a option.?
Richard Shearley
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Re: Centerboard
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýIf you have to reglass the pivot tube you should be fine doing the work from above.. the pennant exit could be enlarged at the same time.One project for Lola will be finding why the board was lost this year. I¡¯m hoping to spend some time with her new owner figuring out what happened. We need a board if anyone has one... plan B will be to make a new one that would have better NACA numbers as the original has poor hydrodynamic performance..? Using extra stands directly under bulkheads should allow you to briefly support the boat off the keel. The hull is capable of supporting the weight... jacking up under the keel is also a option.? Richard Shearley On Dec 10, 2017, at 2:02 PM, Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> wrote:
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Re: Centerboard
The fiberglass work does not concern me because I have a good friend who is a phenomenal fiberglass worker. He repaired the huge hole Sandy put in the boat & no amount of scrutiny reveals where that hole used to be. He is a perfectionist. However, working under that much weight, supported by jackstands, does concern me. The boat is on my property, so I would have to take it to a boatyard to have it lifted. I think the closest one that allows owners to work on their own boats is an hour away. I am assuming there will be glitches in this project & it would be easier to deal with them closer to home.
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Show quoted text
Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@... -----Original Message----- From: calebjess@... [T27Owners] To: T27Owners Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 1:19 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard
?
Monica,
When a boat is supported by jack stands the bulk of the weight is supported by the keel, not the jack stands.? The jack stands merely keep the boat upright.? I have heard of people digging a trench under the keel to access the centerboard trunk while the boat is held up by jack stands, assuming your boat yard is not paved in concrete ;-)? One might also be able to put blocks under the keel while still allowing access to the centerboard trunk using jack stands to keep the boat in place.? In any case moving your boat off your trailer would be necessary to access the slot from below. The safest way to access the centerboard trunk from the bottom is with a TravelLift or crane that can handle 4 tons of weight (our boats weigh around 7200 #s - a bit more than a Sunfish).? The lifting straps would have to be positioned to allow access to the centerboard slot.? I'd expect it might cost you somewhere around $500 to have your boat put in jack stands or have a crane or travel lift raise your boat for this job. The hull shapes between the type 1 & type 2 T27's should be identical.? It is the deck and cabin that is different on the type 2.? The thing that would most worry me about cutting the top off the centerboard slot, as you are contemplating, would be making the centerboard trunk air-tight again, since it is all below the water line.? A good fiberglass technician should be able to do this though.? If you proceed with this idea you would be able to easily inspect/replace the pivot pin as well as inspect/repair the hole that the lifting pennant requires. Good luck however you proceed. My best, Caleb Davison T27 #328 NY -----Original Message-----
From: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 10:42 am Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard Thanks, Jack. you make it sound so easy. I need to put in a new pivot bushing, so suggestions are welcome on that. I'm still hung up on lifting the boat. The folks who have responded make it sound like you're discussing moving a Sunfish around. I'm thinking I have to get the boat off the trailer to get access to the centerboard slot. Are jackstands the way to do this ? I am also wondering if there are differences between the original and the type 2 that are relevant to this discussion. Mine is a type 2.? I have to cut the inside fiberglass to get access to the pivot pin. So, since I have to do fiberglass repair anyway, I was thinking of cutting the whole top off the centerboard housing & dropping it in from the top.
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Jack T Grant' jack@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 9:47 am Subject: RE: [T27Owners] Centerboard
?
Monica, I have just finished updating and ?reinstalling the centerboard on #345 which was damaged and out of the boat when I purchased it.
??????????????? My advice is to install from the bottom (outside) . I can't imagine what you would have to go through on an internal installation but it would certainly be far more involved than lifting the boat 12" to 14" or digging a pit a comparable amount.
w??????????? Secondly, if your centerboard is currently out of the boat, critically examine the pivot bushing for wear. Nor is the time and opportunity to upgrade a potential failure point. It also is an excellent time to examine how the pulley system works and attaches to the centerboard.
??????????????? Finally, remove the portion of the cabin floorboards and remove and inspect the centerboard pivot ?pin.
??????????????? Actual installation is relatively easy assuming you have adequate clearance, a couple of floor jacks and a strong friend. For we "first timers " it took about 45 minutes. I'm certain a boat yard could do it in a comparable amount of time at launching. However , it certainly is not a job a typical owner would find overwhelming, I would think the most critical element would be examining and updating the pivot bushing if required.
??????????????? ?Best regards, and good luck? Jack Grant
From: T27Owners@... [mailto:T27Owners@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 12:36 AM To: T27Owners@... Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard ?
?
Thanks, Caleb. I'm sure I'm going to need lots more advice once I get into this project.
Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@... ?
-----Original Message-----
From: calebjess@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:20 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard ?
Monica,
?
I have owned #328 for nearly 15 years now but have not had to do anything major with my centerboard other than scrape barnacles and paint it, so take this with a grain of salt.
I also keep my boat on a cradle in the off season so the centerboard trunk is usually at least partially blocked as it might be on a trailer (eg, no downward movement possible).?
I think you could replace the board from inside the cabin but you would have to remove most of the top of the centerboard trunk to do so (limited space for manouvering the board).? You might even have to jack you T27 up an inch or two off the trailer frame to get the board back in there from above.? I have never heard of anyone doing it this way so I do not recommend it, but I am sure it is possible.? Quite a few members here have replaced the centerboard from below and some would be glad to talk you through that operation (Marty Levenson has offered).
?
My best,
Caleb D.
T27 #328
?
?
?
?
?
-----Original Message-----
From: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:04 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard Yes, sinking the boat was not part of the plan. The boat is on a trailer. I don't know how to get it high enough to get the centerboard in from the bottom without taking it to a boatyard to use their lift. My thought was that doing the project on my property gives me more flexibility timewise to deal with the unexpected. I thought about digging a grease pit under the boat, but I'm sure the city would be there in a second demanding a building permit. Going in from the top would solve the access issue.
Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@... ? -----Original Message-----
From: Marty Levenson martylev@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 10:38 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard ?
I just did this last spring, but from the bottom. Hopefully you already know the boat has to be on the hard. I don¡¯t really see the advantage of doing it from the top.?
?
It wasn¡¯t that difficult to do, but had some good strong people below. It took a bit if wiggling around to get it aligned.?
?
In my case I needed new bushings for the pivot pin. Are you clear on all that, and how the pennant attaches? Not hard to do but a bit confusing until the penny drops.?
?
There was a bit of last minute adjustment as I had a bronze pin and custom machined bronze bushings ready to go. Unfortunately the glassed in (bronze?) fittings that the bushings were to sit in weren¡¯t quite aligned. Had to grind down two brass nipples to fit, but I know those won¡¯t last many years.?
?
Fire away with questions if you run into trouble: I had lots of help from this list, as well as on the phone from Tartan Marine.
?
Marty
Poseidon T27?
Bowen Island, BC.?
?
?
? sent by carrier pidgeon ?
On Dec 9, 2017, at 7:19 PM, monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> wrote:
?
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Re: Centerboard
Monica,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
When a boat is supported by jack stands the bulk of the weight is supported by the keel, not the jack stands.? The jack stands merely keep the boat upright.? I have heard of people digging a trench under the keel to access the centerboard trunk while the boat is held up by jack stands, assuming your boat yard is not paved in concrete ;-)? One might also be able to put blocks under the keel while still allowing access to the centerboard trunk using jack stands to keep the boat in place.? In any case moving your boat off your trailer would be necessary to access the slot from below. The safest way to access the centerboard trunk from the bottom is with a TravelLift or crane that can handle 4 tons of weight (our boats weigh around 7200 #s - a bit more than a Sunfish).? The lifting straps would have to be positioned to allow access to the centerboard slot.? I'd expect it might cost you somewhere around $500 to have your boat put in jack stands or have a crane or travel lift raise your boat for this job. The hull shapes between the type 1 & type 2 T27's should be identical.? It is the deck and cabin that is different on the type 2.? The thing that would most worry me about cutting the top off the centerboard slot, as you are contemplating, would be making the centerboard trunk air-tight again, since it is all below the water line.? A good fiberglass technician should be able to do this though.? If you proceed with this idea you would be able to easily inspect/replace the pivot pin as well as inspect/repair the hole that the lifting pennant requires. Good luck however you proceed. My best, Caleb Davison T27 #328 NY -----Original Message-----
From: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] To: T27Owners Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 10:42 am Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard Thanks, Jack. you make it sound so easy. I need to put in a new pivot bushing, so suggestions are welcome on that. I'm still hung up on lifting the boat. The folks who have responded make it sound like you're discussing moving a Sunfish around. I'm thinking I have to get the boat off the trailer to get access to the centerboard slot. Are jackstands the way to do this ? I am also wondering if there are differences between the original and the type 2 that are relevant to this discussion. Mine is a type 2.? I have to cut the inside fiberglass to get access to the pivot pin. So, since I have to do fiberglass repair anyway, I was thinking of cutting the whole top off the centerboard housing & dropping it in from the top.
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Jack T Grant' jack@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 9:47 am Subject: RE: [T27Owners] Centerboard
?
Monica, I have just finished updating and ?reinstalling the centerboard on #345 which was damaged and out of the boat when I purchased it.
??????????????? My advice is to install from the bottom (outside) . I can't imagine what you would have to go through on an internal installation but it would certainly be far more involved than lifting the boat 12" to 14" or digging a pit a comparable amount.
w??????????? Secondly, if your centerboard is currently out of the boat, critically examine the pivot bushing for wear. Nor is the time and opportunity to upgrade a potential failure point. It also is an excellent time to examine how the pulley system works and attaches to the centerboard.
??????????????? Finally, remove the portion of the cabin floorboards and remove and inspect the centerboard pivot ?pin.
??????????????? Actual installation is relatively easy assuming you have adequate clearance, a couple of floor jacks and a strong friend. For we "first timers " it took about 45 minutes. I'm certain a boat yard could do it in a comparable amount of time at launching. However , it certainly is not a job a typical owner would find overwhelming, I would think the most critical element would be examining and updating the pivot bushing if required.
??????????????? ?Best regards, and good luck? Jack Grant
From: T27Owners@... [mailto:T27Owners@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 12:36 AM To: T27Owners@... Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard ?
?
Thanks, Caleb. I'm sure I'm going to need lots more advice once I get into this project.
Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@... ?
-----Original Message-----
From: calebjess@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:20 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard ?
Monica,
?
I have owned #328 for nearly 15 years now but have not had to do anything major with my centerboard other than scrape barnacles and paint it, so take this with a grain of salt.
I also keep my boat on a cradle in the off season so the centerboard trunk is usually at least partially blocked as it might be on a trailer (eg, no downward movement possible).?
I think you could replace the board from inside the cabin but you would have to remove most of the top of the centerboard trunk to do so (limited space for manouvering the board).? You might even have to jack you T27 up an inch or two off the trailer frame to get the board back in there from above.? I have never heard of anyone doing it this way so I do not recommend it, but I am sure it is possible.? Quite a few members here have replaced the centerboard from below and some would be glad to talk you through that operation (Marty Levenson has offered).
?
My best,
Caleb D.
T27 #328
?
?
?
?
?
-----Original Message-----
From: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:04 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard Yes, sinking the boat was not part of the plan. The boat is on a trailer. I don't know how to get it high enough to get the centerboard in from the bottom without taking it to a boatyard to use their lift. My thought was that doing the project on my property gives me more flexibility timewise to deal with the unexpected. I thought about digging a grease pit under the boat, but I'm sure the city would be there in a second demanding a building permit. Going in from the top would solve the access issue.
Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@... ? -----Original Message-----
From: Marty Levenson martylev@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 10:38 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard ?
I just did this last spring, but from the bottom. Hopefully you already know the boat has to be on the hard. I don¡¯t really see the advantage of doing it from the top.?
?
It wasn¡¯t that difficult to do, but had some good strong people below. It took a bit if wiggling around to get it aligned.?
?
In my case I needed new bushings for the pivot pin. Are you clear on all that, and how the pennant attaches? Not hard to do but a bit confusing until the penny drops.?
?
There was a bit of last minute adjustment as I had a bronze pin and custom machined bronze bushings ready to go. Unfortunately the glassed in (bronze?) fittings that the bushings were to sit in weren¡¯t quite aligned. Had to grind down two brass nipples to fit, but I know those won¡¯t last many years.?
?
Fire away with questions if you run into trouble: I had lots of help from this list, as well as on the phone from Tartan Marine.
?
Marty
Poseidon T27?
Bowen Island, BC.?
?
?
? sent by carrier pidgeon ?
On Dec 9, 2017, at 7:19 PM, monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> wrote:
?
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Re: Centerboard
Thanks, Jack. you make it sound so easy. I need to put in a new pivot bushing, so suggestions are welcome on that. I'm still hung up on lifting the boat. The folks who have responded make it sound like you're discussing moving a Sunfish around. I'm thinking I have to get the boat off the trailer to get access to the centerboard slot. Are jackstands the way to do this ?
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I am also wondering if there are differences between the original and the type 2 that are relevant to this discussion. Mine is a type 2.? I have to cut the inside fiberglass to get access to the pivot pin. So, since I have to do fiberglass repair anyway, I was thinking of cutting the whole top off the centerboard housing & dropping it in from the top. Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@... -----Original Message----- From: 'Jack T Grant' jack@... [T27Owners] To: T27Owners Sent: Sun, Dec 10, 2017 9:47 am Subject: RE: [T27Owners] Centerboard
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Monica, I have just finished updating and ?reinstalling the centerboard on #345 which was damaged and out of the boat when I purchased it.
??????????????? My advice is to install from the bottom (outside) . I can't imagine what you would have to go through on an internal installation but it would certainly be far more involved than lifting the boat 12" to 14" or digging a pit a comparable amount.
w??????????? Secondly, if your centerboard is currently out of the boat, critically examine the pivot bushing for wear. Nor is the time and opportunity to upgrade a potential failure point. It also is an excellent time to examine how the pulley system works and attaches to the centerboard.
??????????????? Finally, remove the portion of the cabin floorboards and remove and inspect the centerboard pivot ?pin.
??????????????? Actual installation is relatively easy assuming you have adequate clearance, a couple of floor jacks and a strong friend. For we "first timers " it took about 45 minutes. I'm certain a boat yard could do it in a comparable amount of time at launching. However , it certainly is not a job a typical owner would find overwhelming, I would think the most critical element would be examining and updating the pivot bushing if required.
??????????????? ?Best regards, and good luck? Jack Grant
From: T27Owners@... [mailto:T27Owners@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 12:36 AM To: T27Owners@... Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard ?
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Thanks, Caleb. I'm sure I'm going to need lots more advice once I get into this project.
Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@... ?
-----Original Message-----
From: calebjess@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:20 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard ?
Monica,
?
I have owned #328 for nearly 15 years now but have not had to do anything major with my centerboard other than scrape barnacles and paint it, so take this with a grain of salt.
I also keep my boat on a cradle in the off season so the centerboard trunk is usually at least partially blocked as it might be on a trailer (eg, no downward movement possible).?
I think you could replace the board from inside the cabin but you would have to remove most of the top of the centerboard trunk to do so (limited space for manouvering the board).? You might even have to jack you T27 up an inch or two off the trailer frame to get the board back in there from above.? I have never heard of anyone doing it this way so I do not recommend it, but I am sure it is possible.? Quite a few members here have replaced the centerboard from below and some would be glad to talk you through that operation (Marty Levenson has offered).
?
My best,
Caleb D.
T27 #328
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-----Original Message-----
From: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:04 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard Yes, sinking the boat was not part of the plan. The boat is on a trailer. I don't know how to get it high enough to get the centerboard in from the bottom without taking it to a boatyard to use their lift. My thought was that doing the project on my property gives me more flexibility timewise to deal with the unexpected. I thought about digging a grease pit under the boat, but I'm sure the city would be there in a second demanding a building permit. Going in from the top would solve the access issue.
Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@... ? -----Original Message-----
From: Marty Levenson martylev@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 10:38 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard ?
I just did this last spring, but from the bottom. Hopefully you already know the boat has to be on the hard. I don¡¯t really see the advantage of doing it from the top.?
?
It wasn¡¯t that difficult to do, but had some good strong people below. It took a bit if wiggling around to get it aligned.?
?
In my case I needed new bushings for the pivot pin. Are you clear on all that, and how the pennant attaches? Not hard to do but a bit confusing until the penny drops.?
?
There was a bit of last minute adjustment as I had a bronze pin and custom machined bronze bushings ready to go. Unfortunately the glassed in (bronze?) fittings that the bushings were to sit in weren¡¯t quite aligned. Had to grind down two brass nipples to fit, but I know those won¡¯t last many years.?
?
Fire away with questions if you run into trouble: I had lots of help from this list, as well as on the phone from Tartan Marine.
?
Marty
Poseidon T27?
Bowen Island, BC.?
?
?
? sent by carrier pidgeon ?
On Dec 9, 2017, at 7:19 PM, monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> wrote:
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Re: Centerboard
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýMonica, I have just finished updating and ?reinstalling the centerboard on #345 which was damaged and out of the boat when I purchased it. ??????????????? My advice is to install from the bottom (outside) . I can't imagine what you would have to go through on an internal installation but it would certainly be far more involved than lifting the boat 12" to 14" or digging a pit a comparable amount. w??????????? Secondly, if your centerboard is currently out of the boat, critically examine the pivot bushing for wear. Nor is the time and opportunity to upgrade a potential failure point. It also is an excellent time to examine how the pulley system works and attaches to the centerboard. ??????????????? Finally, remove the portion of the cabin floorboards and remove and inspect the centerboard pivot ?pin. ??????????????? Actual installation is relatively easy assuming you have adequate clearance, a couple of floor jacks and a strong friend. For we "first timers " it took about 45 minutes. I'm certain a boat yard could do it in a comparable amount of time at launching. However , it certainly is not a job a typical owner would find overwhelming, I would think the most critical element would be examining and updating the pivot bushing if required. ??????????????? ?Best regards, and good luck? Jack Grant From: T27Owners@... [mailto:T27Owners@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 12:36 AM To: T27Owners@... Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard ? ? Thanks, Caleb. I'm sure I'm going to need lots more advice once I get into this project. Monica Malone PsyD ? -----Original Message----- ? Monica, ? I have owned #328 for nearly 15 years now but have not had to do anything major with my centerboard other than scrape barnacles and paint it, so take this with a grain of salt. I also keep my boat on a cradle in the off season so the centerboard trunk is usually at least partially blocked as it might be on a trailer (eg, no downward movement possible).? I think you could replace the board from inside the cabin but you would have to remove most of the top of the centerboard trunk to do so (limited space for manouvering the board).? You might even have to jack you T27 up an inch or two off the trailer frame to get the board back in there from above.? I have never heard of anyone doing it this way so I do not recommend it, but I am sure it is possible.? Quite a few members here have replaced the centerboard from below and some would be glad to talk you through that operation (Marty Levenson has offered). ? My best, Caleb D. T27 #328 ? ? ? ? ? -----Original Message-----
The boat is on a trailer. I don't know how to get it high enough to get the centerboard in from the bottom without taking it to a boatyard to use their lift. My thought was that doing the project on my property gives me more flexibility timewise to deal with the unexpected. I thought about digging a grease pit under the boat, but I'm sure the city would be there in a second demanding a building permit. Going in from the top would solve the access issue. Monica Malone PsyD
-----Original Message----- ? I just did this last spring, but from the bottom. Hopefully you already know the boat has to be on the hard. I don¡¯t really see the advantage of doing it from the top.? ? It wasn¡¯t that difficult to do, but had some good strong people below. It took a bit if wiggling around to get it aligned.? ? In my case I needed new bushings for the pivot pin. Are you clear on all that, and how the pennant attaches? Not hard to do but a bit confusing until the penny drops.? ? There was a bit of last minute adjustment as I had a bronze pin and custom machined bronze bushings ready to go. Unfortunately the glassed in (bronze?) fittings that the bushings were to sit in weren¡¯t quite aligned. Had to grind down two brass nipples to fit, but I know those won¡¯t last many years.? ? Fire away with questions if you run into trouble: I had lots of help from this list, as well as on the phone from Tartan Marine. ? Marty Poseidon T27? Bowen Island, BC.? ? ? ? sent by carrier pidgeon ?
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Re: Centreboard
Thanks, Caleb. I'm sure I'm going to need lots more advice once I get into this project.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@... -----Original Message----- From: calebjess@... [T27Owners] To: T27Owners Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:20 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard
?
Monica,
I have owned #328 for nearly 15 years now but have not had to do anything major with my centerboard other than scrape barnacles and paint it, so take this with a grain of salt.
I also keep my boat on a cradle in the off season so the centerboard trunk is usually at least partially blocked as it might be on a trailer (eg, no downward movement possible).?
I think you could replace the board from inside the cabin but you would have to remove most of the top of the centerboard trunk to do so (limited space for manouvering the board).? You might even have to jack you T27 up an inch or two off the trailer frame to get the board back in there from above.? I have never heard of anyone doing it this way so I do not recommend it, but I am sure it is possible.? Quite a few members here have replaced the centerboard from below and some would be glad to talk you through that operation (Marty Levenson has offered).
My best,
Caleb D.
T27 #328
-----Original Message-----
From: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:04 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard Yes, sinking the boat was not part of the plan. The boat is on a trailer. I don't know how to get it high enough to get the centerboard in from the bottom without taking it to a boatyard to use their lift. My thought was that doing the project on my property gives me more flexibility timewise to deal with the unexpected. I thought about digging a grease pit under the boat, but I'm sure the city would be there in a second demanding a building permit. Going in from the top would solve the access issue.
? -----Original Message-----
From: Marty Levenson martylev@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 10:38 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard
?
I just did this last spring, but from the bottom. Hopefully you already know the boat has to be on the hard. I don¡¯t really see the advantage of doing it from the top.?
It wasn¡¯t that difficult to do, but had some good strong people below. It took a bit if wiggling around to get it aligned.?
In my case I needed new bushings for the pivot pin. Are you clear on all that, and how the pennant attaches? Not hard to do but a bit confusing until the penny drops.?
There was a bit of last minute adjustment as I had a bronze pin and custom machined bronze bushings ready to go. Unfortunately the glassed in (bronze?) fittings that the bushings were to sit in weren¡¯t quite aligned. Had to grind down two brass nipples to fit, but I know those won¡¯t last many years.?
Fire away with questions if you run into trouble: I had lots of help from this list, as well as on the phone from Tartan Marine.
Marty
Poseidon T27?
Bowen Island, BC.?
? sent by carrier pidgeon ?
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Re: Centreboard
Monica,
I have owned #328 for nearly 15 years now but have not had to do anything major with my centerboard other than scrape barnacles and paint it, so take this with a grain of salt.
I also keep my boat on a cradle in the off season so the centerboard trunk is usually at least partially blocked as it might be on a trailer (eg, no downward movement possible).?
I think you could replace the board from inside the cabin but you would have to remove most of the top of the centerboard trunk to do so (limited space for manouvering the board).? You might even have to jack you T27 up an inch or two off the trailer frame to get the board back in there from above.? I have never heard of anyone doing it this way so I do not recommend it, but I am sure it is possible.? Quite a few members here have replaced the centerboard from below and some would be glad to talk you through that operation (Marty Levenson has offered).
My best,
Caleb D.
T27 #328
-----Original Message-----
From: Monica Malone monicam@... [T27Owners] To: T27Owners Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 11:04 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard Yes, sinking the boat was not part of the plan. The boat is on a trailer. I don't know how to get it high enough to get the centerboard in from the bottom without taking it to a boatyard to use their lift. My thought was that doing the project on my property gives me more flexibility timewise to deal with the unexpected. I thought about digging a grease pit under the boat, but I'm sure the city would be there in a second demanding a building permit. Going in from the top would solve the access issue.
? -----Original Message-----
From: Marty Levenson martylev@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> To: T27Owners <T27Owners@...> Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 10:38 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard
?
I just did this last spring, but from the bottom. Hopefully you already know the boat has to be on the hard. I don¡¯t really see the advantage of doing it from the top.?
It wasn¡¯t that difficult to do, but had some good strong people below. It took a bit if wiggling around to get it aligned.?
In my case I needed new bushings for the pivot pin. Are you clear on all that, and how the pennant attaches? Not hard to do but a bit confusing until the penny drops.?
There was a bit of last minute adjustment as I had a bronze pin and custom machined bronze bushings ready to go. Unfortunately the glassed in (bronze?) fittings that the bushings were to sit in weren¡¯t quite aligned. Had to grind down two brass nipples to fit, but I know those won¡¯t last many years.?
Fire away with questions if you run into trouble: I had lots of help from this list, as well as on the phone from Tartan Marine.
Marty
Poseidon T27?
Bowen Island, BC.?
? sent by carrier pidgeon ?
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Re: Centreboard
Yes, sinking the boat was not part of the plan.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
The boat is on a trailer. I don't know how to get it high enough to get the centerboard in from the bottom without taking it to a boatyard to use their lift. My thought was that doing the project on my property gives me more flexibility timewise to deal with the unexpected. I thought about digging a grease pit under the boat, but I'm sure the city would be there in a second demanding a building permit. Going in from the top would solve the access issue. Monica Malone PsyD
monicam@... ? -----Original Message----- From: Marty Levenson martylev@... [T27Owners] To: T27Owners Sent: Sat, Dec 9, 2017 10:38 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centreboard
?
I just did this last spring, but from the bottom. Hopefully you already know the boat has to be on the hard. I don¡¯t really see the advantage of doing it from the top.?
It wasn¡¯t that difficult to do, but had some good strong people below. It took a bit if wiggling around to get it aligned.?
In my case I needed new bushings for the pivot pin. Are you clear on all that, and how the pennant attaches? Not hard to do but a bit confusing until the penny drops.?
There was a bit of last minute adjustment as I had a bronze pin and custom machined bronze bushings ready to go. Unfortunately the glassed in (bronze?) fittings that the bushings were to sit in weren¡¯t quite aligned. Had to grind down two brass nipples to fit, but I know those won¡¯t last many years.?
Fire away with questions if you run into trouble: I had lots of help from this list, as well as on the phone from Tartan Marine.
Marty
Poseidon T27?
Bowen Island, BC.?
? sent by carrier pidgeon ?
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|
Re: Centreboard
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýI just did this last spring, but from the bottom. Hopefully you already know the boat has to be on the hard. I don¡¯t really see the advantage of doing it from the top.?It wasn¡¯t that difficult to do, but had some good strong people below. It took a bit if wiggling around to get it aligned.? In my case I needed new bushings for the pivot pin. Are you clear on all that, and how the pennant attaches? Not hard to do but a bit confusing until the penny drops.? There was a bit of last minute adjustment as I had a bronze pin and custom machined bronze bushings ready to go. Unfortunately the glassed in (bronze?) fittings that the bushings were to sit in weren¡¯t quite aligned. Had to grind down two brass nipples to fit, but I know those won¡¯t last many years.? Fire away with questions if you run into trouble: I had lots of help from this list, as well as on the phone from Tartan Marine. Marty Poseidon T27? Bowen Island, BC.? ? sent by carrier pidgeon ? On Dec 9, 2017, at 7:19 PM, monicam@... [T27Owners] <T27Owners@...> wrote:
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