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T 27 trailer?

 

Hi Everyone,

My name is Christopher and I am new to the group.? I have been restoring hull # 372 for the last few years.? Has anyone had any experience modifying a used powerboat trailer to safely fit the Tartan 27?

Thx.
Re: T27 Rudder issue

 





In the picture you can see how the PO had a couple of plates welded to re attach. They did not re glass the area, which was good because the welding was a bit dodgy. The construction appears to be the original shaft is formed to the shape of the aperture with stiffeners leading aft. Then every thing encapsulated in solid glass.
Our repair was basically 2 trapezoid plates on either side that tied back the the original structure.? Sandwiching the old between the new. A better technical description might be two large gusset plates. In our case we attached to the coupling, but is could have just as easily been the shaft.

On our boat the propeller shaft has to be removed to remove the rudder. That is why I added the coupling. You can see in the second photo that with the lower gudgeon removed and a hole dug that the rudder still binds on the shaft.
--
Carl Damm
DAMSELv
1976 #593
Stuart Fl
Re: T27 Rudder issue

 

I will look for pictures.? We did the cutting and grinding and glass work.? Once we had it opened up I showed it to a welder and he took over. Then he gave it back and we faired back in. All the glass work is West system.?
I sourced the coupling (Amazon I think). The new shaft from a local prop shop.
When we were done I took the whole assembly back to the prop shop with the tiller head and they cut the key ways in the correct orientation.?
The rudder was mostly solid glass and extremely hard. It was alot of grinding and cutting with a Fien saw.

We did not completely cut the rudder open, or split it in half as some do.? The construction seemed to be the ss post or shaft with mild steel stiffeners running aft. We only exposed the the upper most rib.
--
Carl Damm
DAMSELv
1976 #593
Stuart Fl
Re: T27 Rudder issue

 

Hi Carl,
Thanks for the reply, it looks like you had a similar issue as I do, do you happen to have any pics, or further info of the work done? The rudder being cut and glassed?? I am unable to find anyone who is willing to do this job.
Thanks


On Sun, Feb 27, 2022 at 6:04 PM Carl Damm <cfdamm@...> wrote:

Our rudder shaft was broken at the point the shaft joined the interior plates.? (1975 hull)
We cut back with a grinder to open it all up (just the damaged area. We did not split the whole rudder).
A local fabricator put it back together for $700.
Used all 316 for new work. Then there was alot of glass and fairing with West epoxy.?
Removing the rudder was a real pain as the shaft and prop where in the way.
So we decided to re assemble with a coupling at the top.?
316 coupling $100
New shaft with machining for key ways $100 from propeller shop.

It was alot of work.







--
Carl Damm
DAMSELv
1976 #593
Stuart Fl


Re: T27 Rudder issue

 

Yes those are tube worms. They are a soft growth. Not too hard to remove. Unlike the barnacles and oysters we also get. DAMSELv was in the water a little too long between antifouling coats.

We don't know how our rudder was damaged, but we know she broke loose and grounded during a huricane according to the PO.

With the coupling we could remove the rudder in the water if we absolutely had to.

Crevice corrosion is normally checked with die that makes the cracks stand out. (Aervoe about $30 a kit, magnaflux is another brand)

I have been paying $50 to $80 per chain plate for replacement. From a local machine shop in 316 stainless.
--
Carl Damm
DAMSELv
1976 #593
Stuart Fl
Re: T27 Rudder issue

 

Ok, that looks like you can remove the rudder now without a hoist.
Cool beans. I didn't get the full story but from looking at the
fiberglass repair, I think mine broke in the same place. And yup, I'm
still traumatized from the last time I pulled the prop shaft.

I'm working on chain plates right now and the backstay is off. One
thing on the ever inconsistent Internet says a good test is to dangle
a piece of stainless by a string and hit with a hammer and listen if
it rings true through its entire length, to detect crevice corrosion
cutting through it. That seems to make sense but it may also be a
good sounding tall tale. Another thing says crevice corrosion starts
in fractures where stainless is over stressed, so too lightly built
stainless mainly suffers from it. That also seems to make sense but
for all I know could be a tall tale. Part of me just wants to stick
oversized silicone bronze everywhere. Chainplates were replaced once
but possibly only once. Trying to catch up on that.

Trying to read about all of this, one thing that came up is this
cruiser with a Great Dane 28:


This couple put in bronze. I'm a little jealous of the split backstay
and transom hung rudder. Image at the top is a different boat. Great
Dane 28 is another 60's style pocket cruiser with a large doghouse
cabin. But also at the moment really appreciating my keel stepped
mast, so there's that.

All of which is very beside the point. And what is going on with your
marine growth there? Is that marine growth? California looks way
different. Regardless, no post about stainless/bronze is allowed to
escape without discussion about stainless/bronze.

Cheers,
-scott
#93

On 2/27/22, Carl Damm <cfdamm@...> wrote:
Our rudder shaft was broken at the point the shaft joined the interior
plates.? (1975 hull)
We cut back with a grinder to open it all up (just the damaged area. We did
not split the whole rudder).
A local fabricator put it back together for $700.
Used all 316 for new work. Then there was alot of glass and fairing with
West epoxy.
Removing the rudder was a real pain as the shaft and prop where in the way.
So we decided to re assemble with a coupling at the top.
316 coupling $100
New shaft with machining for key ways $100 from propeller shop.

It was alot of work.

--
Carl Damm
DAMSELv
1976 #593
Stuart Fl
Re: T27 Rudder issue

 


Our rudder shaft was broken at the point the shaft joined the interior plates.? (1975 hull)
We cut back with a grinder to open it all up (just the damaged area. We did not split the whole rudder).
A local fabricator put it back together for $700.
Used all 316 for new work. Then there was alot of glass and fairing with West epoxy.?
Removing the rudder was a real pain as the shaft and prop where in the way.
So we decided to re assemble with a coupling at the top.?
316 coupling $100
New shaft with machining for key ways $100 from propeller shop.

It was alot of work.







--
Carl Damm
DAMSELv
1976 #593
Stuart Fl
Re: T27 Rudder issue

 

Thank you Scott, for some great info!? Yes, I am trying to plan a repair, as this boat is in dire need of being sold.
I plan to go under and inspect the boot, but all looks ok from here.
Looks like a video record of the job will be important, since not many people seem to know what to do with this situation, I hope to help others in the future.


On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 6:26 PM Scott Walters <scrottie@...> wrote:
Hi Blu,

Welcome.? There's a FB group too.? You might read through there for
someone posting having a salvage rudder if nothing comes up here.? I
don't log on there very often so I can't see if there was anything
recent.? I've read reports of bronze failing at this age and my own
rudder stock collapsed a few years back early on in owning this boat
(west coast built #93).? Local yard I got towed in to sent it out to
Svenden's Bay Marine in Richmond CA who cut off the top corner from
one side and then what happened inside there, I don't know.? Repair
including removal and re-installation was about $2,500.? Quality and
cost of work varies greatly from place to place.

It doesn't solve the problem of lifting the boat to slide the rudder
and rudder shaft in, but local welding shops do stuff vastly cheaper
than marine outfits.? Pics would help.? A local welding shop might be
willing and able to weld new stock on at some point but cutting open
the fiberglass and getting new, good stock well in to the body of the
rudder seems like a good idea.? Just make sure to fill with polyester
foam and do a good fiberglass repair with a wide taper as I'm led to
understand that the fiberglass body of the rudder is a major part of
the structure.? If stuff is waterlogged inside the rudder, you have
more of a rebuild project.

A few thoughts in case they help.

Cheers,
-scott


On 1/27/22, B P <blurise2@...> wrote:
> Hello,
> I am rather new to this group, 74' T27 owner.
> I am hoping there is anyone here who may have info, or experience with
> a broken rudder shaft on a T27 ??? The rudder is off the boat, and the
> shaft is split in half.
> Possibly anyone out here who may have done a similar repair???
>
> I thank you in advance!
> Blu
>
Re: blueprints, trivia, and maintenance logs

 

Scott, thanks for posting these links.

I'm wondering, has anyone found the lines for the T27?

Thayer

On 2/12/22 2:53 PM, Scott Walters wrote:
Of course.

Richard previously linked to
. That links to
. There's a "Design Info" tab at the
bottom of the page with these links:





There are Brochure, News, Images, and Handbook tabs too.

News is an article that is very much not recent that starts with
another picture of moistening the rail and pulling hard on the tiller
sailing to wind under full sail:



Cheers,
-scott

On 2/12/22, Carl Damm <cfdamm@...> wrote:
Scott, could you generate links to the two other scans on Tartans web site.
I couldn't get there from here...
--
Carl Damm
DAMSELv
1976 #593
Stuart Fl
Re: blueprints, trivia, and maintenance logs

 

Of course.

Richard previously linked to
. That links to
. There's a "Design Info" tab at the
bottom of the page with these links:





There are Brochure, News, Images, and Handbook tabs too.

News is an article that is very much not recent that starts with
another picture of moistening the rail and pulling hard on the tiller
sailing to wind under full sail:



Cheers,
-scott

On 2/12/22, Carl Damm <cfdamm@...> wrote:
Scott, could you generate links to the two other scans on Tartans web site.
I couldn't get there from here...
--
Carl Damm
DAMSELv
1976 #593
Stuart Fl
Re: blueprints, trivia, and maintenance log

 

Hi Scott,

Thanks for adding the link to the video of around the horn.? Marblehead, MA is a big sailing town.? I saw Captain Johnson show the film and narrate it at the Marblehead High School auditorium around 1968.? ? It was amazing footage on the "Big Screen".

Dave
#427

On Wednesday, February 2, 2022, 03:11:55 PM PST, Scott Walters <scrottie@...> wrote:


Richard Shearley posted earlier just saying "Information".? Clicking
through randomly, I noticed that Tartan actually posted a nice,
high-res scan of the blueprints... three, actually.? Here's the
Construction Plan:



As of a few years ago, unless I'm mistaken, there was only a low res
jpg where lettering was illegible.? This one is clearly readable and
also clearly for the non-encapsulated ballast.? (Schock started doing
encapsulated ballast before McLeod/Tartan did.)

One ongoing discussion is
servicing/repairing/rebuilding/replacing/throwing away the
centerboard.?
reports that "the first dozen boats built in 1961 were bronze".? This
may be a not too distant project.? It's blowing 24mph gusting 34 today
and yesterday in the CA delta.? I'll take the extra weight.? As it is,
it's just wearing through my non-chafe-protected 1/2" dock lines.

Lots of small projects.? New plexiglass over the engine instrument
panel which some PO installed in the forward part of the cockpit next
to the centerboard uphaul.? Some cleaning up electrical.? Replaced a
broken compass (float listing to one side, plexiglass crazed, no idea
which way is north) with a small plotter from PO that was on an arm
that I'd taken down early on.? Re-used the same holes in the coach
back.? Too many holes already.? Trying not to add more.? Set up the
depth sounder.? Should have done that a long time ago.? Got stuck on a
sandbar for an unpleasant 15 minutes last year then immediately did it
again trying to tack back out, and then was badly dragging bottom a
couple of times this year so giving up on the "if it's shallow, I'll
see the bottom!" theory.? This last time, it was near a wreck, which
should have been a wake-up call then.? I bought a Hawkeye depth
sounder but no where in the hull below the water line can it actually
sound through, testing with Vasoline, but the little black and white
Lowrance Mark 4 can.? Reading more too late, the Hawkeye is super low
power and often has this problem.? I was doing that when I'd notice
that electrical to the compass had failed.? Masthead light is out but
power makes it to the mast base.? Not fixing that today.? Been using
my Garmin eTrex 20x with Bluecharts loaded on it because it predicts
tides and being able to hold it up to my face is handy absent a huge
screen.? Kind of crazy that it supports Bluecharts 2 but sadly it
doesn't 3.? Need to investigate a report of community converted NOAA
charts.? There's definitely no way to get depth soundings on it tho,
tho maybe the eTrex 30 does since it talks to a bunch of kinds of
sensors.? Rebedding mast hardware and finding some unhappy holes.
Replaced a bunch of lines and getting ready to replace everything
else.? Had new standing rigging put up last year by Scott Easom/Easom
Racing, who was awesome.? Re-did chainplate anchoring more last year
after getting out of stern tube purgatory.? Or maybe it was before.
With the dripless, except topside leaks during rainstorms (mast,
cockpit lockers), the bilge is dry, but I have two bilge pumps and set
up a third diaphram pump on a timer and solar panel and it's own small
battery to run 1 minute once a week to try to clear the last bit of
water when I'm not here.? Trying the Calgon detergent method to clean
out the holding tank.? Still have some soggy parts of the deck to deal
with.? That's frustrating as the decks were solid when I got the boat,
and I immediately started re-bedding stuff, but I apparently wasn't
fast enough and there were too many projects to be able to focus on
that.? Some of it seems to be just the fiberglass laminate cracking
after decades in the California sun and heat.? Been trying to watch
for cracks and have several just spacked over with 4200.? Cal Sailing
Club club Pearson Commanders got a layer of new fiberglass on their
decking and it looks like I'll have to do the same.? Still thinking
about electric.? The Kubota Z500 has been running without issue but
even with a wet exhaust, the exhaust is noxious, and given that it's
raw water cooled, I have no idea how long it will continue to run.
Last year I had the presence of mind to leave it with antifreeze
sucked up in to it.? Did fiberglass exhaust fix on parts of the
exhaust system and I think the only leaking after that and clamping
connections better and plugging up the exhaust manifold water jacket
is just the engine breather but it still slowly leaks a cloud of
diesel smoke.? Figured out the first of the two circuits on the Noco
genius battery tender/charger was only not working because of a fuse.
Project to move cockpit scuppers to above the water line is still half
done.? Was going to pull her safely to one side and do that but marina
instituted a no drilling, grinding, sanding policy, so that's on the
list of haulout projects now.? Want to get rid of one more unused
thru-hull anyway by the head that's attached to some hose that just
goes nowhere that a toddler would probably immediately use to scuttle
the boat.? Solar charger for the main battery that's back-up for shore
power which can be flakey blew its fuse in its cigarette lighter
adapter which is kind of amazing.? How does a small battery tender
style solar panel blow a fuse?? That's two fuses.? Got a nylon
webbing mast ladder but getting slugs on to it and the mast would be a
project (no easy way to get them on the mast without removing the
gooseneck backing plate) so thinking of just doing it mast hoop style
with bits of line up to the spreaders, ordered an ascender for safety
backup to attach to, and she came with a nylon webbing harness.
Hauled up tight on the halyard, unattached to the mast, I'm still
winding up at a serious negative incline, so hoping mast lashings
help.? When Easom was out inspecting the rigging (wasn't here when he
and a helper were re-doing rigging), he hoisted himself aloft with
nothing more than a harness, a lot of line, and a mainsheet block,
which let him swing out and look at spreader tips.? I do not have
those kinds of gonads:?
Got some Innovative Lighting portable bow and stern lights at least as
a backup if nothing else if I do fix masthead tri lights and it fails
underway.? A Clipper Supernova Tricolor Light and both of them seem
disappointingly not bright but the Allied Signal tri-light that's up
there probably wasn't super bright either and I just accepted it
because it was already there so idk.

So, if anyone has a bronze centerboard laying around, hit me up.

Cheers,
-scott, #93
blueprints, trivia, and maintenance log

 

Richard Shearley posted earlier just saying "Information". Clicking
through randomly, I noticed that Tartan actually posted a nice,
high-res scan of the blueprints... three, actually. Here's the
Construction Plan:



As of a few years ago, unless I'm mistaken, there was only a low res
jpg where lettering was illegible. This one is clearly readable and
also clearly for the non-encapsulated ballast. (Schock started doing
encapsulated ballast before McLeod/Tartan did.)

One ongoing discussion is
servicing/repairing/rebuilding/replacing/throwing away the
centerboard.
reports that "the first dozen boats built in 1961 were bronze". This
may be a not too distant project. It's blowing 24mph gusting 34 today
and yesterday in the CA delta. I'll take the extra weight. As it is,
it's just wearing through my non-chafe-protected 1/2" dock lines.

Lots of small projects. New plexiglass over the engine instrument
panel which some PO installed in the forward part of the cockpit next
to the centerboard uphaul. Some cleaning up electrical. Replaced a
broken compass (float listing to one side, plexiglass crazed, no idea
which way is north) with a small plotter from PO that was on an arm
that I'd taken down early on. Re-used the same holes in the coach
back. Too many holes already. Trying not to add more. Set up the
depth sounder. Should have done that a long time ago. Got stuck on a
sandbar for an unpleasant 15 minutes last year then immediately did it
again trying to tack back out, and then was badly dragging bottom a
couple of times this year so giving up on the "if it's shallow, I'll
see the bottom!" theory. This last time, it was near a wreck, which
should have been a wake-up call then. I bought a Hawkeye depth
sounder but no where in the hull below the water line can it actually
sound through, testing with Vasoline, but the little black and white
Lowrance Mark 4 can. Reading more too late, the Hawkeye is super low
power and often has this problem. I was doing that when I'd notice
that electrical to the compass had failed. Masthead light is out but
power makes it to the mast base. Not fixing that today. Been using
my Garmin eTrex 20x with Bluecharts loaded on it because it predicts
tides and being able to hold it up to my face is handy absent a huge
screen. Kind of crazy that it supports Bluecharts 2 but sadly it
doesn't 3. Need to investigate a report of community converted NOAA
charts. There's definitely no way to get depth soundings on it tho,
tho maybe the eTrex 30 does since it talks to a bunch of kinds of
sensors. Rebedding mast hardware and finding some unhappy holes.
Replaced a bunch of lines and getting ready to replace everything
else. Had new standing rigging put up last year by Scott Easom/Easom
Racing, who was awesome. Re-did chainplate anchoring more last year
after getting out of stern tube purgatory. Or maybe it was before.
With the dripless, except topside leaks during rainstorms (mast,
cockpit lockers), the bilge is dry, but I have two bilge pumps and set
up a third diaphram pump on a timer and solar panel and it's own small
battery to run 1 minute once a week to try to clear the last bit of
water when I'm not here. Trying the Calgon detergent method to clean
out the holding tank. Still have some soggy parts of the deck to deal
with. That's frustrating as the decks were solid when I got the boat,
and I immediately started re-bedding stuff, but I apparently wasn't
fast enough and there were too many projects to be able to focus on
that. Some of it seems to be just the fiberglass laminate cracking
after decades in the California sun and heat. Been trying to watch
for cracks and have several just spacked over with 4200. Cal Sailing
Club club Pearson Commanders got a layer of new fiberglass on their
decking and it looks like I'll have to do the same. Still thinking
about electric. The Kubota Z500 has been running without issue but
even with a wet exhaust, the exhaust is noxious, and given that it's
raw water cooled, I have no idea how long it will continue to run.
Last year I had the presence of mind to leave it with antifreeze
sucked up in to it. Did fiberglass exhaust fix on parts of the
exhaust system and I think the only leaking after that and clamping
connections better and plugging up the exhaust manifold water jacket
is just the engine breather but it still slowly leaks a cloud of
diesel smoke. Figured out the first of the two circuits on the Noco
genius battery tender/charger was only not working because of a fuse.
Project to move cockpit scuppers to above the water line is still half
done. Was going to pull her safely to one side and do that but marina
instituted a no drilling, grinding, sanding policy, so that's on the
list of haulout projects now. Want to get rid of one more unused
thru-hull anyway by the head that's attached to some hose that just
goes nowhere that a toddler would probably immediately use to scuttle
the boat. Solar charger for the main battery that's back-up for shore
power which can be flakey blew its fuse in its cigarette lighter
adapter which is kind of amazing. How does a small battery tender
style solar panel blow a fuse? That's two fuses. Got a nylon
webbing mast ladder but getting slugs on to it and the mast would be a
project (no easy way to get them on the mast without removing the
gooseneck backing plate) so thinking of just doing it mast hoop style
with bits of line up to the spreaders, ordered an ascender for safety
backup to attach to, and she came with a nylon webbing harness.
Hauled up tight on the halyard, unattached to the mast, I'm still
winding up at a serious negative incline, so hoping mast lashings
help. When Easom was out inspecting the rigging (wasn't here when he
and a helper were re-doing rigging), he hoisted himself aloft with
nothing more than a harness, a lot of line, and a mainsheet block,
which let him swing out and look at spreader tips. I do not have
those kinds of gonads:
Got some Innovative Lighting portable bow and stern lights at least as
a backup if nothing else if I do fix masthead tri lights and it fails
underway. A Clipper Supernova Tricolor Light and both of them seem
disappointingly not bright but the Allied Signal tri-light that's up
there probably wasn't super bright either and I just accepted it
because it was already there so idk.

So, if anyone has a bronze centerboard laying around, hit me up.

Cheers,
-scott, #93
Re: T27 Rudder issue

 

Hi Blu,

Welcome. There's a FB group too. You might read through there for
someone posting having a salvage rudder if nothing comes up here. I
don't log on there very often so I can't see if there was anything
recent. I've read reports of bronze failing at this age and my own
rudder stock collapsed a few years back early on in owning this boat
(west coast built #93). Local yard I got towed in to sent it out to
Svenden's Bay Marine in Richmond CA who cut off the top corner from
one side and then what happened inside there, I don't know. Repair
including removal and re-installation was about $2,500. Quality and
cost of work varies greatly from place to place.

It doesn't solve the problem of lifting the boat to slide the rudder
and rudder shaft in, but local welding shops do stuff vastly cheaper
than marine outfits. Pics would help. A local welding shop might be
willing and able to weld new stock on at some point but cutting open
the fiberglass and getting new, good stock well in to the body of the
rudder seems like a good idea. Just make sure to fill with polyester
foam and do a good fiberglass repair with a wide taper as I'm led to
understand that the fiberglass body of the rudder is a major part of
the structure. If stuff is waterlogged inside the rudder, you have
more of a rebuild project.

A few thoughts in case they help.

Cheers,
-scott

On 1/27/22, B P <blurise2@...> wrote:
Hello,
I am rather new to this group, 74' T27 owner.
I am hoping there is anyone here who may have info, or experience with
a broken rudder shaft on a T27 ??? The rudder is off the boat, and the
shaft is split in half.
Possibly anyone out here who may have done a similar repair???

I thank you in advance!
Blu
Re: T27 Rudder issue

 

These boats get cut up from time to time or are available for free…I cut one up about five years ago and actually saved some essential parts until I realized that very few if any owners of these boats want to pay a fair price for good parts. After storing this piece for a year or two and then being offered a paltry $50 for the rudder that I took the time to save from this boat I cut it up to save space and sold the shaft for scrap value.

Buying something like this as a new fabrication will probably cost more than you paid for your boat (2-3k) Not sure how this shaft split??? It is a heavily built piece and this should not have happened based on the protected design so I would guess it was subjected to some type of hard grounding, etc. with that said you probably also need a good shoe for the bottom and a bit of glasswork…if you can’t get it rewelded and can’t find an old one that someone has been storing I would seriously look into just doing a transom hung rudder.

Pete

Ps. I have a rudder head and tiller that I saved if you need either…along with a bow and stern pulpit…I cut up the original mast that was in good serviceable condition due to my lack of space and thrifty nature of this group…

On Jan 27, 2022, at 4:12 PM, B P <blurise2@...> wrote:

?Hello,
I am rather new to this group, 74' T27 owner.
I am hoping there is anyone here who may have info, or experience with
a broken rudder shaft on a T27 ??? The rudder is off the boat, and the
shaft is split in half.
Possibly anyone out here who may have done a similar repair???

I thank you in advance!
Blu
T27 Rudder issue

 

Hello,
I am rather new to this group, 74' T27 owner.
I am hoping there is anyone here who may have info, or experience with
a broken rudder shaft on a T27 ??? The rudder is off the boat, and the
shaft is split in half.
Possibly anyone out here who may have done a similar repair???

I thank you in advance!
Blu
Information.

 

开云体育



Richard Shearley
Re: DIY Tartan 27 Mast Unstepping

 

When I have scene this done before, the A Frame legs were made of 2 x 4 screwed to gether to create a wooden T. So twice the material with greater stiffness.? In that case it was done at anchor.?
--
Carl Damm
DAMSELv
1976 #593
Stuart Fl
Re: DIY Tartan 27 Mast Unstepping

 

Scott,

Thank you for sharing the photos of your A frame mast removal process.? I'd also say you deserve an "A" for ingenuity and determination.? As the owner of this group, I do want to encourage people to share their experiences and ideas, I only ask that the discourse be kept respectful, if not polite.? I would find it unpleasant to have to take some kind of action and I trust I will not have to take any.

You may deserve an "F" for OSHA related issues but if nobody was hurt and you got the job done.? I to? You also exhibited the can-do kind of thinking a sailor sometimes has to use. I have heard of the A frame idea for smaller boats and for them it works fine.? But I was also thinking about the Gin pole method that was mentioned and I have seen Ensign owners (22' keel sailboat) do it with their masts at my club. The mast for the Ensign is much lighter than a T27 mast though so you would need pretty robust materials.??

I have removed the mast several times on my T27 but it is usually the "Royal we" who actually does the work.? The first time was at a marina boat yard and they rented me a crane for something like $175 (for pulling & stepping almost 20 years ago).? Subsequently I joined a club that has some waterfront equipment; specifically cranes for launching and pulling boats, docks etc.? They even have a mast raising crane which is human powered (something like 5:1 purchase) and works great but you still need like 3 or 4 people to do it.? Might/could do it with just 2 people but I know the T27 mast is heavy and is probably close to 300 #s so the more the merrier.? No fee for use; just pay your membership dues.??

For a few years I owned a Lightning 19' sailboat that was on a trailer.? Obviously, since it was trailered I had to step/unstep the mast any time I wanted to use it.? It is also keel stepped but the depth below the deck is much smaller, like 2' of mast.? I had devised what I think is a fairly unusual method for doing this.? The grassy area that made up the parking lot at the launch ramp had some trees and I found a sturdy oak or maple limb that hung overhead at about 20' high.? I would take a fishing pole with a small weight on it and cast it over the limb.? Once I retrieved the end of the fishing line I could pull another line back over the limb, using the fishing line as a messenger line.? The line I pulled over the limb would have a block at the end which would be used to do any pulling in the "up" direction.? You can almost picture it and it isn't that complicated but once I managed to flag the OSHA inspectors when somehow the mast went into free fall and clipped my wife.? I'm sure she still remembers it and that boat is now in somebody else's driveway.

Cheers.

Caleb D
T27 #328

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Rosasco <scottrosasco@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, Dec 20, 2021 10:49 pm
Subject: [T27Owners] DIY Tartan 27 Mast Unstepping

Thought you might enjoy some photos of our mast removal last week, using an A-Frame constructed of 2x4’s. Total cost, somewhere in the neighborhood of $75. Not without a few issues.
Re: DIY Tartan 27 Mast Unstepping

 

开云体育

If we are getting reflective, I had the experience of a wooden mast breaking on the way to the Dry Tortugas about 45 years ago. ?We built a new mast with a router as our only power equipment, box construction and scarfed. This was for a 1939 Dyer Dhow Senior, about 27’ long with a keel stepped mast. ?When we needed to reset the mast, we approached the guy running the crane barge for the Corps of Engineers. ?For a case of beer he stepped our new mast magnificently (no damage!). ?I asked how long he had been running the crane afterwards, and he replied, “About three weeks”!
Robin
#125

On Dec 21, 2021, at 5:37 PM, Dave Jepsky via <davejepsky@...> wrote:

Pretty gutsy Peter.

Years back I had a similar problem in Mississippi; except, it was installing my mast after the boat arrived in a boatyard which only had power boats and no crane.? Some guys said they could stand on top of a corrugated roof and haul my mast up to step it.

I saw only disaster in that scenario and found a guy with a Cherry Picker who came out at 7AM on a Sunday morning.? Took him five minutes and cost me $25.

There are other options.
Take care,
Dave
T27? #427

On Tuesday, December 21, 2021, 09:03:08 AM PST, Alan Schaeffer <alan.g.schaeffer@...> wrote:


Strongly worded, but many good points,?Peter.?

On a positive note, I hope some can benefit from my experience with this conundrum.

When faced with?removing the keel-stepped mast from my T27, I was unable to find much information on how to accomplish this in a safe and controlled manner,?so I can sympathize with you,?Scott. My boat was in the water, so I wanted to be sure whatever I did would be very stable and controlled. So I worked out this tripod hoist for my own mast hauling, and it worked very well. While I have not done it yet, my rig is designed with sufficient control and stability to re-step the mast, too.

The leggs are 1-1/2 electric conduit; two 10' lengths per leg. They are joined with internal?plug connectors of PVC, sliced lengthwise to expand, and with oak driven inside the PVC to set them up tight. The added outside collars are for good measure. I drilled pockets?in some wood scraps for feet. The forward leg went aft of the anchor roller and the port and starboard legs went aft of the chainplates. I tied them off so they would not slide out of place. The apex was in front of the mast.

The sling went around the mast as high as I could get it, which was a couple of feet below the balance point of the mast. My tripod was too short to attach at the?balance point of the mast and still have the required 6' of lift. The balance point is just below the spreaders, so, since my strap would have to be lower, I calculated the top-heaviness at about 90#, which is because of the long lever arm of this imbalance. (My recollection is the mast is not anywhere near 300#. More like half that, including wires, winches, etc.) We counterweighted (hugged) the mast at the bottom to keep the mast from swinging down onto the stern rail. This was no problem,?though it did provide the greatest anticipatory adrenaline?rush of the procedure. Next time I will add 2' to each leg to achieve near balance, which would (on a calm day, of course) allow this rig to then be safely used solo!

The picture is of the half-legged tripod with a T27 mizzen, just so the arrangement can be seen in action. I have a ratcheting turn-around pulley at the bottom of the near leg, which, in use, I?hooked to the cabin house near the base of the mast. That way I could let go of the rig without any slippage. This proved useful.

I'm all for gaining this kind of independence and doing things yourself. Scott, maybe you can build one of these for your?reinstall. I hope my rig helps and inspires others to think through their own safe and controlled mast management.

Alan
BTW, sadly, my T27 is for sale.
860-572-5722c

<IMG_6423.JPG>
<IMG_6424.JPG>
<IMG_6425.JPG>


On Tue, Dec 21, 2021 at 8:21 AM Pete Rebo via <horsehideperfecto=[email protected]> wrote:


> Scott,
>
> I can see several reasons why you should NEVER attempt anything like this again…you guys got lucky no one was killed or seriously injured.? About the only thing you sort of got right was your actual pick point location…although it could have been a bit lower, thus reducing the overall height needed for either an A-frame or gin pole.
>
> Almost every picture you list shows major safety issues along with poor design…the A-frame is way to tall first off…no need to have that extra unstable length up there, I would guess you had about ten feet of lift after clearing the partners.
>
> It looks from a few shots that your A-frame was bowing quite a bit…not a great look.? I am no carpenter but how this wood was oriented, with the wider section going port to starboard as well as the limited bracing help to explain the near banana shape you achieved with this 300 lb. spar.
>
> 30’ off the ground on a ladder with a boat on jack stands…are you aware that boats have fallen in boat yards from owners going aloft in moderate winds?? The flagpole indicates 15 kts. of wind roughly…you also have the bare minimum of jack stands..at least buy one for the bow….ideally you should be on 7 stands total.
>
> An anchor on your cabin top…was that for opening beers?? A tripping hazard?? Or just there in case one of your helpers lost their balance, fell, and then struck their head on this anchor that has no business being there, at that time, with the work being done.
>
> Another ladder trick, this time setting it up as scaffolding from bow to stern…if your A-frame failed that person’s chances of survival were cut in half being in that precarious location…15’ plus from pavement…or the ability to move very far as the entire F’d up monstrosity above is crashing to the deck.
>
> Be sure to pray to whatever God you believe in asap.? Next go to your local marina and buy an old mast and make a proper gin pole…I would also delete all of these pictures and never speak of this again.? On second thought this could be a great way to instruct others on the wrong way to build an A-frame, un-steping a spar, etc, etc. etc.? ?
>
> Happy Holidays,
>
> Pete Rebovich
>
> Ps…what was the line that got hung up that stopped you dead in your tracks once the mast butt got near the ground?? I hope it was not your backstay since that should have been tied to the spar along with all your other standing rigging before lifting….
>
> ***


> ?Thought you might enjoy some photos of our mast removal last week, using an A-Frame constructed of 2x4’s. Total cost, somewhere in the neighborhood of $75. Not without a few issues.
>
>
>






<IMG_6423.JPG><IMG_6424.JPG><IMG_6425.JPG>
Re: DIY Tartan 27 Mast Unstepping

 

Pretty gutsy Peter.

Years back I had a similar problem in Mississippi; except, it was installing my mast after the boat arrived in a boatyard which only had power boats and no crane.? Some guys said they could stand on top of a corrugated roof and haul my mast up to step it.

I saw only disaster in that scenario and found a guy with a Cherry Picker who came out at 7AM on a Sunday morning.? Took him five minutes and cost me $25.

There are other options.
Take care,
Dave
T27? #427

On Tuesday, December 21, 2021, 09:03:08 AM PST, Alan Schaeffer <alan.g.schaeffer@...> wrote:


Strongly worded, but many good points,?Peter.?

On a positive note, I hope some can benefit from my experience with this conundrum.

When faced with?removing the keel-stepped mast from my T27, I was unable to find much information on how to accomplish this in a safe and controlled manner,?so I can sympathize with you,?Scott. My boat was in the water, so I wanted to be sure whatever I did would be very stable and controlled. So I worked out this tripod hoist for my own mast hauling, and it worked very well. While I have not done it yet, my rig is designed with sufficient control and stability to re-step the mast, too.

The leggs are 1-1/2 electric conduit; two 10' lengths per leg. They are joined with internal?plug connectors of PVC, sliced lengthwise to expand, and with oak driven inside the PVC to set them up tight. The added outside collars are for good measure. I drilled pockets?in some wood scraps for feet. The forward leg went aft of the anchor roller and the port and starboard legs went aft of the chainplates. I tied them off so they would not slide out of place. The apex was in front of the mast.

The sling went around the mast as high as I could get it, which was a couple of feet below the balance point of the mast. My tripod was too short to attach at the?balance point of the mast and still have the required 6' of lift. The balance point is just below the spreaders, so, since my strap would have to be lower, I calculated the top-heaviness at about 90#, which is because of the long lever arm of this imbalance. (My recollection is the mast is not anywhere near 300#. More like half that, including wires, winches, etc.) We counterweighted (hugged) the mast at the bottom to keep the mast from swinging down onto the stern rail. This was no problem,?though it did provide the greatest anticipatory adrenaline?rush of the procedure. Next time I will add 2' to each leg to achieve near balance, which would (on a calm day, of course) allow this rig to then be safely used solo!

The picture is of the half-legged tripod with a T27 mizzen, just so the arrangement can be seen in action. I have a ratcheting turn-around pulley at the bottom of the near leg, which, in use, I?hooked to the cabin house near the base of the mast. That way I could let go of the rig without any slippage. This proved useful.

I'm all for gaining this kind of independence and doing things yourself. Scott, maybe you can build one of these for your?reinstall. I hope my rig helps and inspires others to think through their own safe and controlled mast management.

Alan
BTW, sadly, my T27 is for sale.
860-572-5722c

IMG_6423.JPG
IMG_6424.JPG
IMG_6425.JPG


On Tue, Dec 21, 2021 at 8:21 AM Pete Rebo via <horsehideperfecto=[email protected]> wrote:


> Scott,
>
> I can see several reasons why you should NEVER attempt anything like this again…you guys got lucky no one was killed or seriously injured.? About the only thing you sort of got right was your actual pick point location…although it could have been a bit lower, thus reducing the overall height needed for either an A-frame or gin pole.
>
> Almost every picture you list shows major safety issues along with poor design…the A-frame is way to tall first off…no need to have that extra unstable length up there, I would guess you had about ten feet of lift after clearing the partners.
>
> It looks from a few shots that your A-frame was bowing quite a bit…not a great look.? I am no carpenter but how this wood was oriented, with the wider section going port to starboard as well as the limited bracing help to explain the near banana shape you achieved with this 300 lb. spar.
>
> 30’ off the ground on a ladder with a boat on jack stands…are you aware that boats have fallen in boat yards from owners going aloft in moderate winds?? The flagpole indicates 15 kts. of wind roughly…you also have the bare minimum of jack stands..at least buy one for the bow….ideally you should be on 7 stands total.
>
> An anchor on your cabin top…was that for opening beers?? A tripping hazard?? Or just there in case one of your helpers lost their balance, fell, and then struck their head on this anchor that has no business being there, at that time, with the work being done.
>
> Another ladder trick, this time setting it up as scaffolding from bow to stern…if your A-frame failed that person’s chances of survival were cut in half being in that precarious location…15’ plus from pavement…or the ability to move very far as the entire F’d up monstrosity above is crashing to the deck.
>
> Be sure to pray to whatever God you believe in asap.? Next go to your local marina and buy an old mast and make a proper gin pole…I would also delete all of these pictures and never speak of this again.? On second thought this could be a great way to instruct others on the wrong way to build an A-frame, un-steping a spar, etc, etc. etc.? ?
>
> Happy Holidays,
>
> Pete Rebovich
>
> Ps…what was the line that got hung up that stopped you dead in your tracks once the mast butt got near the ground?? I hope it was not your backstay since that should have been tied to the spar along with all your other standing rigging before lifting….
>
> ***


> ?Thought you might enjoy some photos of our mast removal last week, using an A-Frame constructed of 2x4’s. Total cost, somewhere in the neighborhood of $75. Not without a few issues.
>
>
>






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