My .02 worth... When I first bought my Tartan, the first thing I did was remove the swingkeel. My bronze pin had worn down to the size a little larger than a bobby pin! I can¡¯t believe the board didn¡¯t fall out of the boat upon haul out, or sooner.?
After replacing the pin which I fabricated from a very large Naval Bronze carriage bolt ( smooth section). At this time both chain plates were rebuilt properly.
Upon launching I noticed water weeping through the fiberglass trunk at the very top where the hinge pin is.
The keel Hole was round and perfect, But the sloppy pin allowed to swing keeled to rise up higher than it normally would and chaffe a thin spot the inside of the trunk. ? I performed the repair from both the inside and outside of the laminate.
Regarding the idiotic Rule / pump panels ( on / off / auto ). There should never be a reason to turn the bilge pump off! Whether it¡¯s on the hard or not!
You¡¯ll save yourself a lot of aggravation if you wire it up idiot proof, directly to the battery! As long as there¡¯s power in the battery it will work. ?Just because you might have two batteries, the pump can only be hooked up to one battery, unless you have multiple batteries on either selection one or two.
I¡¯ve rebuilt several of the center boards and have found most of them to be steel with little triangles of stainless steel welded on either side of the hinge pin hole. It¡¯s worth removing the laminate on one side of the keel to do an inspection of what you have inside.
You might want to tie a string around the top your head and chin, to keep your chin from hitting the floor! Shocking!!!
Be proactive, it will cost you a lot less money in the long run.
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On May 29, 2021, at 10:52 AM, Warren Stein via groups.io <wrsteinesq@...> wrote:
?
Glad if I can help. ? A couple more minor points: ?it¡¯s a good idea to round the ends of the pin, or maybe even taper it a little bit on each end. ?This makes it easier to insert the pin: ?you¡¯re already shooting in the dark, so this helps. ?If you¡¯re fabricating a new pin, make sure your pin is not too long to allow you to crank down on the pipe caps. ?Since the inside of most pipe caps are domed, make the pin the same length as the out-to-out distance between the outside ends of the pipe stubs, measured athwartships, or just a little bit shorter. ?In other words, if it will fit through the two pipes stubs and not stick out on either side, you should be fine. ?And if you¡¯re going to use a stainless steel pin (and I think most do), use 316 rather than 304, if you can. ?Polish it, if you can, to minimize any crevices, even microscopic ones. And if you can find some citric acid, or even lemon juice, you might consider soaking or even boiling the pin in it for a while, maybe an hour or so, at some point before installation. ?This ¡®passivates¡¯ the stainless and helps eliminate crevice corrosion.
-----Original Message-----
From: Monica <monicam@...>
To: wrsteinesq@... <wrsteinesq@...>; sbufe@... <sbufe@...>; [email protected] < [email protected]>
Cc: martylev@... <martylev@...>
Sent: Sat, May 29, 2021 10:26 am
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard Trunk Leak
Thanks for the info. I have to install a centerboard and was thinking bushings would be a good idea. You saved me from having to learn from my own mistakes.
-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Stein via groups.io <wrsteinesq@...>
To: sbufe@... <sbufe@...>; [email protected] < [email protected]>
Cc: martylev@... <martylev@...>
Sent: Sat, May 29, 2021 9:02 am
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard Trunk Leak
In morning¡¯s light I noticed something else: ?reference to bushings inside the pipe stubs. ? They shouldn¡¯t be there, and they¡¯re not original. ? I know, it sounds appealing to think that the pin should rotate nicely in nice snug bushings, and I¡¯d even previously considered making some out of UHMW, but they shoudn¡¯t be there. ?Here¡¯s why: ?the pin, and the pipe stubs, were never intended to carry side loads. ? There are considerable side loads under sail. ?The pin diameter is considerably smaller than the ID of the pipe stubs. ?Why? ?Why didn¡¯t S&S use a bigger pin or smaller pipe subs? ?The reason is, so the whole centerboard has some slop from side-to-side. ?This allows the bottom edge of the centerboard slot to carry much of the load, spread out over a considerable area, rather than concentrating it at a single point, the pin and the pipe stubs. ?It also creates a lateral ¡®pivot point¡¯ at the bottom of the centerboard trunk, where the centerboard emerges, rather than at one end of the centerboard, and this makes the whole centerboard a much shorter lever relative to the pin, which is a good thing.
At any point of sail off the wind, the boat is being set to leeward, and the centerboard resists that set. ?If it can slop a little in its trunk side-to-side, then the windward side of the board will bear against the bottom windward edge of the centerboard slot at the bottom of the trunk, where the centerboard emerges. ?This causes the load to be borne along that whole edge between the centerboard and the slot. ?Obviously the length of that edge varies with how far the centerboard is ¡®lowered,¡¯ because it¡¯s not actually lowered, like a daggerboard, but pivots on its pin, so when it¡¯s only halfway down, the length of that edge is longer than when it¡¯s fully lowered and the centerboard is vertical. ?In any event, it¡¯s a MUCH bigger area than the pin alone; AND it¡¯s lower on the centerboard, meaning there¡¯s less lever arm below it.
If there are bushings in the pipe stubs so that there is no slop from side to side, then all of the load is being carried by the pin and the pipe stubs.
Bottom line is, there is a reason why the pin is loose in the pipe stubs. ?Putting bushings in there is a well-intentioned mistake.
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Bufe <sbufe@...>
To: [email protected] < [email protected]>
Cc: martylev@... <martylev@...>
Sent: Sat, May 29, 2021 8:03 am
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard Trunk Leak
I would agree. I¡¯ve had the pleasure of attempting to remove 5200 and it was not an enjoyable experience?
On May 29, 2021, at 4:49 AM, Warren Stein via groups.io <wrsteinesq@...> wrote:
?
Respectfully, the suggestion to use 5200 on the caps is terrible advice. ? 5200 is more-or-less permanent; it¡¯s known as ¡®the devil¡¯s glue.¡¯ ? It should never be used on anything you might need
to remove in the future. ? If you use it as suggested, you raise considerably the chances that a) you will never again realistically be able to inspect the pin; and b) that when the day comes when you need to remove the caps, that you will break the pipe stubs
the caps are screwed to, or at least break them out of the fiberglass, before the 5200 lets go. ?Don¡¯t do it. ?There are plenty of other ways of sealing pipe threads. ? ?Warren Stein, Hull No. 90, Seanachie
-----Original Message-----
From: a41967t27 <martylev@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sun, May 23, 2021 11:56 am
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Centerboard Trunk Leak
Don¡¯t know why you would fibreglass over the bronze centerboard pivot caps. There is a pin sitting in bushings inside. All should be bronze, but on some boats (ours) pin was ss. Those parts need to be inspected every so often as the centerboard wobble
wears them with considerable leverage. Dissimilar metals exacerbate the deterioration. That¡¯s how we lost our previous centerboard. When you replace board pin and bushings, screw those caps on tightly with 5200. They should not weep or leak at all. Then you
can access in the future.? IMHO!
On Sun, May 23, 2021 at 8:45 AM aksjghkajshd < scott@...> wrote:
Saw Rick's reply and echoing it:? center board pivot pin.
When you lower the centerboard, it attaches from there and
swings down from a pin stuck in those bits of bronze pipe.
The pin and centerboard where it attaches there is something
that requires service and is often overdue for service.
Generally, everything that needs service winds up being
overdue for service on any boat because only a lucky few
boats are fully taken care of.? But there I go ranting
again.
For better or worse, after dealing with leaks and being
nervous as heck about it, I had the the centerboard and
centerboard pivot pin serviced then fiberglassed over
the caps and pipe.? Someone else had posted in this group
asking "what is this?" on a T27-2 I believe where the
piping and caps had been glassed over and thought hmm,
that may not be a bad idea.
Not saying I'm going to win this floating game, but I've
got one bilge pump hooked up to the battery with an
automatic/on/off switch and a second much larger (as
large as I could fit in the bilge) pump that switches
between battery and shore power, trying to avoid any
single points of failure.? Installed new bilge pumps
and a new float after fiberglassing over holes some
previous owner screwed all of the way through the
bilge floor and then 4200'd the pumps and floats down.
I know that's way more than you asked but I'm crabby
about this and taking every chance to tell people not
to put more unnecessary holes in boats.
Anyway, in your case, you might be able to convince
a plumber to go in to your leaking boat, take the
old caps off, cut new thread in to the pipe, and
put new bronze caps on.? If the bronze needs to be
replaced, that's possible, but fiberglassing it in
would have to be done dry.
Avoid trying to just torque those on harder.? My hull #93
came with hairline cracks around the port side pivot pipe
very likely from caps being torqed on or off too hard.
If anyone has to pull hard to get those off, imo,
add a bunch more fiberglass layup first.
Cheers,
-scott
On? 0, Patrick McGough <patrick.mcgough@...> wrote:
> Let me first by saying I am in no risk of the boat sinking...as I sit here she is firmly sitting on the bottom at low tide...I came out yesterday morning to find water up to the floorboards because of a slow leak from the port side pipe that extends out from
the trunk...the bilge got switched to manual...no harm no foul...Question...what are those outlets for that have the caps on them?? Any recommendations on solutions...there is a good bit of water pressure behind those caps so short of pulling to address....what
have you all done...picture attached for reference....Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note20 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone
> -------- Original message --------From: baltirobin <baltirobin@...> Date: 5/7/21? 3:54 PM? (GMT-05:00) To:
[email protected] Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Ready to go. Kiltie looks wonderful. Have a great season.RobinOn May 7, 2021, at 3:01 PM, John Bailey <john.bailey50@...>
wrote:Kiltie looks great for being 55 years old. She has a new coat of paint and will be dunked back in Oneida Lake NY any day.Originally sailed out of the Hudson then the Chesapeake Bay she has been living the fresh water life.She is yawl rigged (mizzenmast
not up yet).A labor of love.John<image.jpg>On Apr 2, 2021, at 4:54 PM, Chris McLoughlin via
<bridgeway73=[email protected]> wrote:?
>? ? ? ? ?Hey Guys, I presently am offering Sea Gypsy (hull #453) for sail. The boat has a great running Atomic 4, new exhaust system with modern water lift muffler. Fuel pump, carberator and both engine cooling pumps have been replaced (engine has heat exchanger
so raw water doesn't pump thru engine) new head, new cabin interior 2 part epoxy paint job, new back stay, bilge and domestic water pump. Boat has roller furler, genny, jib, spinacker and drifter, main sail has a rip and either needs repair or replacement
( Lee sails quoted me $1200.00 for new main, but I know used ones are available). Boat is on land at Weeks Yacht Yard in Patchogue ,Long Island, NY. I am asking $3500.00. If interested you can reach me at 631-514-1689 or email?
bridgeway73@....?
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>? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?On Friday, April 2, 2021, 12:19:11 PM EDT, aaronkuriloff <aaron.kuriloff@...>
wrote:
>? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
>? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
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>? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Hi all, we¡¯ve moved and I can¡¯t continue my efforts to restore Moonshine. She¡¯s got a near-new Universal m-18 and redone chain plates, but there are soft spots in the cockpit and the interior is still pretty rough. Asking $3500.?Here¡¯s the
craiglist post with some photos:
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