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Hi everyone,
I was just given this Sunfish. ?Seems to be a 1969 model.?
?The lower plate of the rudder mount on the bottom of the boat has a screw in it that doesn’t grab hold of anything any more.?
Photos here:?
Is this the right screw/part? ?Can I put something in the hole (epoxy? Brand? ) and drill a new hole for the screw? ?Is it dangerous to sail this before it’s properly fixed? ?The rest of the rudder mount seems fine. ?I have sailed it in light winds. ??
PS - i used this screw hole to drain water that was in it after long storage. ?
Thanks for any help - Kristen on Lake Champlain
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Water should not drain from there, that means someone put in too long of a screw and went all the way through the internal wooden backer block.
?
Try thickened epoxy in the hole, THIXO or FLEXPOXY. The screw only needs to be an inch long. The rudder will not stay secure if that latch plate is not secure.
--
Cheers
Clark and Skipper
Our blog
Our book?
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I would put an inspection port on the deck above and replace the backer board in the bottom of hull
Sent from my Verizon Motorola Droid
On Jul 7, 2020 3:38 PM, Kristen Fehlhaber <kfehlhaber@...> wrote: Hi everyone,
I was just given this Sunfish. Seems to be a 1969 model.
The lower plate of the rudder mount on the bottom of the boat has a screw in it that doesn’t grab hold of anything any more.
Photos here:
Is this the right screw/part? Can I put something in the hole (epoxy? Brand? ) and drill a new hole for the screw? Is it dangerous to sail this before it’s properly fixed? The rest of the rudder mount seems fine. I have sailed it in light winds.
PS - i used this screw hole to drain water that was in it after long storage.
Thanks for any help - Kristen on Lake Champlain
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Yes I would over drill a bit then dry it out or use wet epoxy (push or inject it into the hole) let it dry redrill pilot hole and reset the screw, a shorter one, I usually put a little sealer on all my hull penetrating screws, not glue just a sealer.
On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 2:49 PM Kristen Fehlhaber < kfehlhaber@...> wrote: Hi everyone,
I was just given this Sunfish.? Seems to be a 1969 model.?
?The lower plate of the rudder mount on the bottom of the boat has a screw in it that doesn’t grab hold of anything any more.?
Photos here:?
Is this the right screw/part?? Can I put something in the hole (epoxy? Brand? ) and drill a new hole for the screw?? Is it dangerous to sail this before it’s properly fixed?? The rest of the rudder mount seems fine.? I have sailed it in light winds. ??
PS - i used this screw hole to drain water that was in it after long storage. ?
Thanks for any help - Kristen on Lake Champlain
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May I suggest adding some wood flour or cut glass floss to the epoxy, to give the screw more to bite into than just resin. ?And if you contemplate ever removing the screw, maybe you wanna thread it in while the resin is half-cured, then back it out and wait for it to fully harden before screwing it back in. ?Some may think this is over-doing it, and they're not wrong, but it's how I'd approach it.
On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 6:30:16 PM CDT, Mark Hanson <mchdch@...> wrote:
Yes I would over drill a bit then dry it out or use wet epoxy (push or inject it into the hole) let it dry redrill pilot hole and reset the screw, a shorter one, I usually put a little sealer on all my hull penetrating screws, not glue just a sealer.
On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 2:49 PM Kristen Fehlhaber < kfehlhaber@...> wrote: Hi everyone,
I was just given this Sunfish.? Seems to be a 1969 model.?
?The lower plate of the rudder mount on the bottom of the boat has a screw in it that doesn’t grab hold of anything any more.?
Photos here:?
Is this the right screw/part?? Can I put something in the hole (epoxy? Brand? ) and drill a new hole for the screw?? Is it dangerous to sail this before it’s properly fixed?? The rest of the rudder mount seems fine.? I have sailed it in light winds. ??
PS - i used this screw hole to drain water that was in it after long storage. ?
Thanks for any help - Kristen on Lake Champlain
|
I agree with installing inspection port in the deck. You actually should have that anyway. I would also install one towards the bow. Given the age of the boat I'm sure there is some moisture inside. When you have these 2 ports you can open them up and place a fan over one of them to help dry it out.?
Jimmy Schools?
"Freedom Won"?1974 CAL 2-29? Norfolk VA.?
? ? ? ?
On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 04:17:04 PM EDT, Hugh Gardner via groups.io <hughcg@...> wrote:
I would put an inspection port on the deck above and replace the backer board in the bottom of hull
Sent from my Verizon Motorola Droid
On Jul 7, 2020 3:38 PM, Kristen Fehlhaber <kfehlhaber@...> wrote: Hi everyone,
I was just given this Sunfish. Seems to be a 1969 model.
The lower plate of the rudder mount on the bottom of the boat has a screw in it that doesn’t grab hold of anything any more.
Photos here:
Is this the right screw/part? Can I put something in the hole (epoxy? Brand? ) and drill a new hole for the screw? Is it dangerous to sail this before it’s properly fixed? The rest of the rudder mount seems fine. I have sailed it in light winds.
PS - i used this screw hole to drain water that was in it after long storage.
Thanks for any help - Kristen on Lake Champlain
|
Thanks everyone for your suggestions.? Installing an inspection port looks easier than I imagined.? Because it would have multiple benefits, I will likely do that.? But I might try to epoxy it first just to get some sailing in -- I don't have my tools here to do the port installation.??
I watched a video on doing a port installation - very helpful.? Any specific placement of a rear port for this model Sunfish?? I found this recommendation online ()??but this location won't work - would be right under the rudder hardware.? To the side of this okay?? Are those dotted lines supports? on the inside of the hull or the deck?? Don't want to mess this up.? Thanks!? ?Kristen
I agree with installing inspection port in the deck. You actually should have that anyway. I would also install one towards the bow. Given the age of the boat I'm sure there is some moisture inside. When you have these 2 ports you can open them up and place a fan over one of them to help dry it out.?
Jimmy Schools?
"Freedom Won"?1974 CAL 2-29? Norfolk VA.?
? ? ? ?
On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 04:17:04 PM EDT, Hugh Gardner via <hughcg= [email protected]> wrote:
I would put an inspection port on the deck above and replace the backer board in the bottom of hull
Sent from my Verizon Motorola Droid On Jul 7, 2020 3:38 PM, Kristen Fehlhaber < kfehlhaber@...> wrote: Hi everyone,
I was just given this Sunfish. Seems to be a 1969 model.
The lower plate of the rudder mount on the bottom of the boat has a screw in it that doesn’t grab hold of anything any more.
Photos here:
Is this the right screw/part? Can I put something in the hole (epoxy? Brand? ) and drill a new hole for the screw? Is it dangerous to sail this before it’s properly fixed? The rest of the rudder mount seems fine. I have sailed it in light winds.
PS - i used this screw hole to drain water that was in it after long storage.
Thanks for any help - Kristen on Lake Champlain
|
That 50 year old backing board inside the hull is damaged.? Best to install a 6" inspection port in the middle of the back deck and replace the board.? Yes,? epoxy the hole in bottom of boat.? Redrill and install bottom bracket,? use a good glob of silicone sealer in the hole.??
When I've gotten to this point is when I've converted to modern stainless transom mounted rudder gudgeon bracket and modern kick up ruder system,? but that's an investment.? If you're recreational sailing,? not worth it.? ?
Over the winter if you can store the boat someplace secure (no rodents/insects) and even slightly warm,? leave the inspection cover off so the hull can dry out.? If you can circulate air,? all the better.? It is possible to get the boat back to 130 pounds,? I've done it.?
Good luck.?
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I think the dotted lines suggest the placement of the closed cell foam blocks that provide both structural rigidity for the hull as well as flotation should the hull become filled with water. I have put inspection ports in the stern of a couple of Sunfish. I found the foam block placement to be a little different on each hull. I had to remove some of the center-line foam block in both cases in order to have access to the transom, where I needed to add a backing block for the rudder gudgeons. The boat will not suffer for the loss of a part of that foam block. I used a key-hole saw to remove a little bit at a time until I could see my work area.?
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The dotted line show where the foam floatation/support blocks are inside. You want to keep from removing too much of that foam, though excess expanding foam "glue" glopped around their bases can be picked away, as that stuff just soaks up water and makes the boat heavy, I have an inspection port on the aft deck of my 1977 Sunfish, put in by a previous owner. It is offset and does cut into the foam a bit on the starboard aft corner.
Instead of a permanent port there, you could cut the circle more cleanly, then replace it afterwards... another thing to think about regarding the rudder is to just upgrade to a modern rudder system all the way, rather than the old "break-away" system.
On Wednesday, July 8, 2020, 1:36:35 PM CDT, Steve King <steve@...> wrote:
I think the dotted lines suggest the placement of the closed cell foam blocks that provide both structural rigidity for the hull as well as flotation should the hull become filled with water. I have put inspection ports in the stern of a couple of Sunfish. I found the foam block placement to be a little different on each hull. I had to remove some of the center-line foam block in both cases in order to have access to the transom, where I needed to add a backing block for the rudder gudgeons. The boat will not suffer for the loss of a part of that foam block. I used a key-hole saw to remove a little bit at a time until I could see my work area.?
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Kristin - To get you on the water for the season, maybe insert on of those wall toggle bolts and put a bunch of sealant around the hole.
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Richard
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of Mark Suszko via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2020 3:30 PM
To: [email protected]; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [SunfishSailor] Help with pre-1972 rudder mount
?
The dotted line show where the foam floatation/support blocks are inside. You want to keep from removing too much of that foam, though excess expanding foam "glue" glopped
around their bases can be picked away, as that stuff just soaks up water and makes the boat heavy, I have an inspection port on the aft deck of my 1977 Sunfish, put in by a previous owner. It is offset and does cut into the foam a bit on the starboard aft
corner.
Instead of a permanent port there, you could cut the circle more cleanly, then replace it afterwards... another thing to think about regarding the rudder is to just upgrade
to a modern rudder system all the way, rather than the old "break-away" system.
On Wednesday, July 8, 2020, 1:36:35 PM CDT, Steve King <steve@...> wrote:
I think the dotted lines suggest the placement of the closed cell foam blocks that provide both structural rigidity for the hull as well as flotation should the hull
become filled with water. I have put inspection ports in the stern of a couple of Sunfish. I found the foam block placement to be a little different on each hull. I had to remove some of the center-line foam block in both cases in order to have access to the
transom, where I needed to add a backing block for the rudder gudgeons. The boat will not suffer for the loss of a part of that foam block. I used a key-hole saw to remove a little bit at a time until I could see my work area.?
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Those dotted lines show the location of the foam flotation blocks.?
If your just dealing with the screw issue I would repair with epoxy as previously described.?
Installing an inspection port in the area indicated is for when your upgrading to the newer style rudder. Your right you can’t put an inspection port where your current rudder brackets are. ? Deciding to update the rudder requires a bit more in terms of cost and effort.?
Hope that helps.?
Rick? Las Cruces,NM
On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 11:23 AM Kristen Fehlhaber < kfehlhaber@...> wrote: Thanks everyone for your suggestions.? Installing an inspection port looks easier than I imagined.? Because it would have multiple benefits, I will likely do that.? But I might try to epoxy it first just to get some sailing in -- I don't have my tools here to do the port installation.??
I watched a video on doing a port installation - very helpful.? Any specific placement of a rear port for this model Sunfish?? I found this recommendation online ()??but this location won't work - would be right under the rudder hardware.? To the side of this okay?? Are those dotted lines supports? on the inside of the hull or the deck?? Don't want to mess this up.? Thanks!? ?Kristen
I agree with installing inspection port in the deck. You actually should have that anyway. I would also install one towards the bow. Given the age of the boat I'm sure there is some moisture inside. When you have these 2 ports you can open them up and place a fan over one of them to help dry it out.?
Jimmy Schools?
"Freedom Won"?1974 CAL 2-29? Norfolk VA.?
? ? ? ?
On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 04:17:04 PM EDT, Hugh Gardner via <hughcg= [email protected]> wrote:
I would put an inspection port on the deck above and replace the backer board in the bottom of hull
Sent from my Verizon Motorola Droid On Jul 7, 2020 3:38 PM, Kristen Fehlhaber < kfehlhaber@...> wrote: Hi everyone,
I was just given this Sunfish. Seems to be a 1969 model.
The lower plate of the rudder mount on the bottom of the boat has a screw in it that doesn’t grab hold of anything any more.
Photos here:
Is this the right screw/part? Can I put something in the hole (epoxy? Brand? ) and drill a new hole for the screw? Is it dangerous to sail this before it’s properly fixed? The rest of the rudder mount seems fine. I have sailed it in light winds.
PS - i used this screw hole to drain water that was in it after long storage.
Thanks for any help - Kristen on Lake Champlain
|
Being that the only good place for a inspection port is right where the older style rudder mounts, Idk that I would go to the effort to install an inspection port to fix a backing board on an older style rudder. I would first epoxy the hole and re drill the hole. If that didn’t hold I would use an expanding fastener. The rudder mount in that area is not a high stress area. If the rudder is attached correctly, it would not need much to hold it.?
If none of those options worked Then I would decide on if I liked that boat enough to update the rudder.?
Having said that. There are lots of good reasons to install the inspection port and update the rudder. But that’s a bigger decision.?
Rick
On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 12:29 PM turluck < gail@...> wrote: That 50 year old backing board inside the hull is damaged.? Best to install a 6" inspection port in the middle of the back deck and replace the board.? Yes,? epoxy the hole in bottom of boat.? Redrill and install bottom bracket,? use a good glob of silicone sealer in the hole.??
When I've gotten to this point is when I've converted to modern stainless transom mounted rudder gudgeon bracket and modern kick up ruder system,? but that's an investment.? If you're recreational sailing,? not worth it.? ?
Over the winter if you can store the boat someplace secure (no rodents/insects) and even slightly warm,? leave the inspection cover off so the hull can dry out.? If you can circulate air,? all the better.? It is possible to get the boat back to 130 pounds,? I've done it.?
Good luck.?
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I had the problem with my old style rudder.? Go ahead and put in the inspection port now.? It is a pretty easy job.? Then you can thru drill the hole and put on a nut and washer.? If you after the season decide to convert to the new style rudder, the port
will already be there? If the wood is not too rotted, you can jam a piece of wood in the hole and rethread in the screw.? I have done that many times on things besides boats were a hole is rotted or just worn out.? I scored on a trade the rudder hardware so
I converted mine the? spring loaded style as opposed to the break away style.
Mr MIke
Being that the only good place for a inspection port is right where the older style rudder mounts, Idk that I would go to the effort to install an inspection port to fix a backing board on an older style rudder. I would first epoxy the hole
and re drill the hole. If that didn’t hold I would use an expanding fastener. The rudder mount in that area is not a high stress area. If the rudder is attached correctly, it would not need much to hold it.?
If none of those options worked Then I would decide on if I liked that boat enough to update the rudder.?
Having said that. There are lots of good reasons to install the inspection port and update the rudder. But that’s a bigger decision.?
Rick
On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 12:29 PM turluck < gail@...> wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
That 50 year old backing board inside the hull is damaged.? Best to install a 6" inspection port in the middle of the back deck and replace the board.? Yes,? epoxy the hole in bottom of boat.? Redrill and install bottom bracket,? use a good
glob of silicone sealer in the hole.??
When I've gotten to this point is when I've converted to modern stainless transom mounted rudder gudgeon bracket and modern kick up ruder system,? but that's an investment.? If you're recreational sailing,? not worth it.? ?
Over the winter if you can store the boat someplace secure (no rodents/insects) and even slightly warm,? leave the inspection cover off so the hull can dry out.? If you can circulate air,? all the better.? It is possible to get the boat back
to 130 pounds,? I've done it.?
Good luck.?
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Not a fan of toggle bolts anywhere on a boat: ?they are made to work only in tension, not shear or compression, their prongs concentrate stress on small points ?- which is bad if it's on the actual fiberglass... less bad if resting on a backing board of some kind... but they also corrode pretty quickly unless made of the right materials. ?These did a number on the footrails of my Butterfly scow when the previous owner used them, so I have a bad relationship with them, I mean hate them hate them hate them. ?Your mileage may vary.
On Wednesday, July 8, 2020, 3:24:13 PM CDT, Michael King <mrmike17@...> wrote:
I had the problem with my old style rudder.? Go ahead and put in the inspection port now.? It is a pretty easy job.? Then you can thru drill the hole and put on a nut and washer.? If you after the season decide to convert to the new style rudder, the port
will already be there? If the wood is not too rotted, you can jam a piece of wood in the hole and rethread in the screw.? I have done that many times on things besides boats were a hole is rotted or just worn out.? I scored on a trade the rudder hardware so
I converted mine the? spring loaded style as opposed to the break away style.
Mr MIke
Being that the only good place for a inspection port is right where the older style rudder mounts, Idk that I would go to the effort to install an inspection port to fix a backing board on an older style rudder. I would first epoxy the hole
and re drill the hole. If that didn’t hold I would use an expanding fastener. The rudder mount in that area is not a high stress area. If the rudder is attached correctly, it would not need much to hold it.?
If none of those options worked Then I would decide on if I liked that boat enough to update the rudder.?
Having said that. There are lots of good reasons to install the inspection port and update the rudder. But that’s a bigger decision.?
Rick
On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 12:29 PM turluck < gail@...> wrote:
That 50 year old backing board inside the hull is damaged.? Best to install a 6" inspection port in the middle of the back deck and replace the board.? Yes,? epoxy the hole in bottom of boat.? Redrill and install bottom bracket,? use a good
glob of silicone sealer in the hole.??
When I've gotten to this point is when I've converted to modern stainless transom mounted rudder gudgeon bracket and modern kick up ruder system,? but that's an investment.? If you're recreational sailing,? not worth it.? ?
Over the winter if you can store the boat someplace secure (no rodents/insects) and even slightly warm,? leave the inspection cover off so the hull can dry out.? If you can circulate air,? all the better.? It is possible to get the boat back
to 130 pounds,? I've done it.?
Good luck.?
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When you cut the hole for a 5” inspection cover you will have to cut some of the wood and also the foam.? I used a jig saw to get a nice circle and a keyhole saw on the foam.? The mounting hardwre for the new style spring loaded ?tip up
rudder has a nice heavy aluminum gudgeon plate.? With that plate properly thru bolted the rudder mounting is very, very strong….far better than the original kick up design.? I had to do a bit of trimming on the gudgeon plate and careful marking for the holes
but it is very strong.
?
Mr Mike
?
Sent from for Windows 10
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From: Steve King
Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2020 2:36 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [SunfishSailor] Help with pre-1972 rudder mount
?
I think the dotted lines suggest the placement of the closed cell foam blocks that provide both structural rigidity for the hull as well as flotation should the hull become filled with water. I have put inspection ports in the stern of
a couple of Sunfish. I found the foam block placement to be a little different on each hull. I had to remove some of the center-line foam block in both cases in order to have access to the transom, where I needed to add a backing block for the rudder gudgeons.
The boat will not suffer for the loss of a part of that foam block. I used a key-hole saw to remove a little bit at a time until I could see my work area.?
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Put inspect port in middle of back deck.? When you pry off the fiberglass circle,? leave as much Styrofoam as you can,? but it's OK to remove brown/ yellow 2-part expanded foam around it.? That is the glue to hold blocks in place.? With the port centered,? you can reach the back for rudder mounting work and the back of the cockpit tub to install hiking strap eyestraps. Since the boat has leaked,? you want to dry it out and replace the rotted backer block.? ?I have not bothered to fiberglass new backers in place,? just used sealant.??
While working,? tape around the cut opening so you don't get fiberglass fibers in your skin,? mount the ring when you're done.? ?Bigger opening to work through ...
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Dear Group,
Can anyone recommend a Sunfish repair person that may make visits in the Catskills, NY area?
Thank you,
Rick
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On Jul 9, 2020, at 12:45 PM, turluck <gail@...> wrote:
?
Put inspect port in middle of back deck.? When you pry off the fiberglass circle,? leave as much Styrofoam as you can,? but it's OK to remove brown/ yellow 2-part expanded foam around it.? That is the glue to hold blocks in place.? With the port centered,? you can reach the back for rudder mounting work and the back of the cockpit tub to install hiking strap eyestraps. Since the boat has leaked,? you want to dry it out and replace the rotted backer block.? ?I have not bothered to fiberglass new backers in place,? just used sealant.??
While working,? tape around the cut opening so you don't get fiberglass fibers in your skin,? mount the ring when you're done.? ?Bigger opening to work through ...
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Signal Charlie
turluck
Steve King
