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engine shuts off on steep downhills
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýHello Everyone When driving on steep downhills my 2001 ej25 shutts of after half
a mile of drive. So have to shift 2nd to start again the engine,?
and this goes on again and again. Look like the fuel circuit is running out of fuel. I have clean the iddle air valve a couple of months before,
thought i would solve the problem, but didn;t get any better with
that. Is there any group member having same problem?? Any solution
on that?? --
Best Regards Achilleas Garibaldi 19011 Avlona Attiki Greece ¦³:22950 29300
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What does sensor do you have and have you verified it is working and if so, what does is it reporting compared to actual speed? Andy 505-304-5306 On Mon, Jul 3, 2023, 8:12 AM a.garibaldi <achilleas@...> wrote:
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I go down in compression either with 1st; 2nd or third gear the engine shuts of. No i am not in neutral. I use in dash speedometer speed sensor. I have not test if works fine. Don't know how to test this.? B.R. Achilleas Send from my mobile ¦¡¦Ð?: [email protected] <[email protected]> ¦Å¦Ê ¦Ì?¦Ñ¦Ï¦Ô? ¦Ó¦Ï¦Ô Dr Mark <mark@...> ·¡¦Ò¦Ó?¦Ë¦Ç: ¦¤¦Å¦Ô¦Ó?¦Ñ¦Á, ¦©¦Ï¦Ô¦Ë?¦Ï¦Ô 3, 2023 10:14:20 ¦Ì.¦Ì. ¦°¦Ñ¦Ï?: [email protected] <[email protected]> ¦¨?¦Ì¦Á: Re: [SubaruVanagon] engine shuts off on steep downhills are you going down in neutral or with compression . agree it may be related to speed sensor.? |
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For your engineer you should have a ODB2 interface. If you have that you can connect it to a reader.? Many of us use the app torque and our phones with a $10 Bluetooth ODB2 reader Amazon or eBay. If you have that set up your torque or whichever app you're using will be able to tell you the speed the ECU is getting from the speed sensor Andy 505-304-5306 On Mon, Jul 3, 2023, 2:30 PM a.garibaldi <achilleas@...> wrote:
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My suspicion is gummy Idle Air Control valve.? Simple to clean, expensive ($300+) to replace.? A similar suspicion is gummy Throttle body....again extremely simple to clean these things up.? My motor used to shut off when downshifting and cruising into some place, this was with Air Conditioner On (Subie EJ22).? I don't care how clean your motor might be externally....but gummy stuff internally is always a bad situation.? And no...things won't fix themselves.? But elbow grease will fix.
On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 01:30:44 PM PDT, a.garibaldi <achilleas@...> wrote:
I go down in compression either with 1st; 2nd or third gear the engine shuts of. No i am not in neutral. I use in dash speedometer speed sensor. I have not test if works fine. Don't know how to test this.? B.R. Achilleas Send from my mobile ¦¡¦Ð?: [email protected] <[email protected]> ¦Å¦Ê ¦Ì?¦Ñ¦Ï¦Ô? ¦Ó¦Ï¦Ô Dr Mark <mark@...> ·¡¦Ò¦Ó?¦Ë¦Ç: ¦¤¦Å¦Ô¦Ó?¦Ñ¦Á, ¦©¦Ï¦Ô¦Ë?¦Ï¦Ô 3, 2023 10:14:20 ¦Ì.¦Ì. ¦°¦Ñ¦Ï?: [email protected] <[email protected]> ¦¨?¦Ì¦Á: Re: [SubaruVanagon] engine shuts off on steep downhills are you going down in neutral or with compression . agree it may be related to speed sensor.? |
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I have open and clean my IAC valve a couple of months ago. Not sure if i had to readjust something again after that. If yes pls let me know B.R. Achilleas Send from my mobile ¦¡¦Ð?: [email protected] <[email protected]> ¦Å¦Ê ¦Ì?¦Ñ¦Ï¦Ô? ¦Ó¦Ï¦Ô RICHARD KOERNER <rjkinpb@...> ·¡¦Ò¦Ó?¦Ë¦Ç: ¦³¦Ñ?¦Ó¦Ç, ¦©¦Ï¦Ô¦Ë?¦Ï¦Ô 4, 2023 12:00:09 ¦Ð.¦Ì. ¦°¦Ñ¦Ï?: [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]> ¦¨?¦Ì¦Á: Re: [SubaruVanagon] engine shuts off on steep downhills My suspicion is gummy Idle Air Control valve.? Simple to clean, expensive ($300+) to replace.? A similar suspicion is gummy Throttle body....again extremely simple to clean these things up.? My motor used to shut off when downshifting and cruising into some place, this was with Air Conditioner On (Subie EJ22).? I don't care how clean your motor might be externally....but gummy stuff internally is always a bad situation.? And no...things won't fix themselves.? But elbow grease will fix.
On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 01:30:44 PM PDT, a.garibaldi <achilleas@...> wrote:
I go down in compression either with 1st; 2nd or third gear the engine shuts of. No i am not in neutral. I use in dash speedometer speed sensor. I have not test if works fine. Don't know how to test this.? B.R. Achilleas Send from my mobile ¦¡¦Ð?: [email protected] <[email protected]> ¦Å¦Ê ¦Ì?¦Ñ¦Ï¦Ô? ¦Ó¦Ï¦Ô Dr Mark <mark@...> ·¡¦Ò¦Ó?¦Ë¦Ç: ¦¤¦Å¦Ô¦Ó?¦Ñ¦Á, ¦©¦Ï¦Ô¦Ë?¦Ï¦Ô 3, 2023 10:14:20 ¦Ì.¦Ì. ¦°¦Ñ¦Ï?: [email protected] <[email protected]> ¦¨?¦Ì¦Á: Re: [SubaruVanagon] engine shuts off on steep downhills are you going down in neutral or with compression . agree it may be related to speed sensor.? |
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Unfortunately no codes. My 2001 legacy is european specs. NO OBD2 before 2001 there. So no scan gauge no torquepro. Was unlucky on that. B.R. Achilleas Send from my mobile ¦¡¦Ð?: [email protected] <[email protected]> ¦Å¦Ê ¦Ì?¦Ñ¦Ï¦Ô? ¦Ó¦Ï¦Ô Wayne Sitarz <wesitarz@...> ·¡¦Ò¦Ó?¦Ë¦Ç: ¦³¦Ñ?¦Ó¦Ç, ¦©¦Ï¦Ô¦Ë?¦Ï¦Ô 4, 2023 3:58:29 ¦Ð.¦Ì. ¦°¦Ñ¦Ï?: [email protected] <[email protected]> ¦¨?¦Ì¦Á: Re: [SubaruVanagon] engine shuts off on steep downhills Codes? |
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I've had this happen after a fill up, and it was water in the gas. The water goes to the bottom of the tank and will only get picked up in certain positions. A bottle of gas drier fixed it for me. Cheap and worth a try. On Tue, Jul 4, 2023 at 12:17?AM a.garibaldi <achilleas@...> wrote:
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I noticed that while coasting downhill in gear for more than 5-10 seconds the engine would stall when I put in the clutch. I solved this by giving the engine a little rev before disengaging the clutch to wake it up.? My take is the engine goes into gas shutoff as an emissions reduction routine while engine braking on a downhill and has a problem restarting the flow. I have an older 3.3 6 cyl. and this method solved my stalling issue. M Dietrich
On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 10:20:13 AM EDT, Bindu Miller <bindumiller@...> wrote:
I've had this happen after a fill up, and it was water in the gas. The water goes to the bottom of the tank and will only get picked up in certain positions. A bottle of gas drier fixed it for me. Cheap and worth a try. On Tue, Jul 4, 2023 at 12:17?AM a.garibaldi <achilleas@...> wrote:
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Mark,
I found it interesting that you have an exact same problem I have: engine will sometimes stall, typically on a downhill, but sometimes coasting to a stoplight usually within 5-10 minutes of start-up and triggered by pushing in the clutch.? When I first got my van, I figured it was related to the engine or the control unit with the original 86 waterboxer.? However, I have since changed out the engine for an EJ25 along with all mechanical/fuel/cooling related parts except the fuel tank, evaporator tanks and some of the suspension....and the problem continued.? I've just lived with it figuring it has to maybe do with the remaining two fuel-system related parts I've not changed out yet - the fuel tank or maybe leaky evaporative tanks.? I thought maybe a leaky evaporative tank might cause some sort of fuel cutoff, but the fact that it only happens if you push in the clutch makes that seem unlikely. I'll have to try the revving the engine before I push in the clutch...hadn't thought of that ;-)? ? Thanks! --Greg |
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We had the same symptom with our now-deceased EG33 - engine died when unloaded and slowing to a stop. If I let the engine idle-down loaded, it usually didn't die. I always assumed it had to do with the ecu expecting the torque converter drag and not finding it.? On Wed, Jul 5, 2023, 11:27 Redder <greg.redder@...> wrote: Mark, |
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Greg, I don't want you to buy a new fuel tank needlessly, but these things are nearing 40 years....and as diligent as you might be, that exit port with the metal screen tends to get clogged.? It might be accumulated dirt, it might be rust particles, most likely a combination.? What happens is fuel starvation downstream; very powerful fuel pump cavitates fuel causing bubbles, worsened by high ambient temps or high elevation.? Fuel injectors hate bubbles.....and these bubbles can potentially cause all kinds of strange performance problems.? I mean eventually you will need to replace fuel tank and crossovers and associated gaskets; why not now.
On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 07:27:47 AM PDT, Redder <greg.redder@...> wrote:
Mark, I found it interesting that you have an exact same problem I have: engine will sometimes stall, typically on a downhill, but sometimes coasting to a stoplight usually within 5-10 minutes of start-up and triggered by pushing in the clutch.? When I first got my van, I figured it was related to the engine or the control unit with the original 86 waterboxer.? However, I have since changed out the engine for an EJ25 along with all mechanical/fuel/cooling related parts except the fuel tank, evaporator tanks and some of the suspension....and the problem continued.? I've just lived with it figuring it has to maybe do with the remaining two fuel-system related parts I've not changed out yet - the fuel tank or maybe leaky evaporative tanks.? I thought maybe a leaky evaporative tank might cause some sort of fuel cutoff, but the fact that it only happens if you push in the clutch makes that seem unlikely. I'll have to try the revving the engine before I push in the clutch...hadn't thought of that ;-)? ? Thanks! --Greg |
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Hey, my name is Richard, and I'm the guy who suggested fuel tank replacement.? The fact that you can do this job, in your driveway....well, way beyond my abilities and tools...but encouragingly remarkable.? And I strongly suggest for others, I mean it wipes off a big opponent on the list of possible problem issues.? And yes, this is for Subie but also for Vanagons in general.
On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 02:27:51 PM PDT, Redder <greg.redder@...> wrote:
Mark...it's been on my list and highly suspicious given it's one of the only things not replaced.? I had the dang thing out of there a few years back....I really, really wish I'd have just swapped it out then.? That's an awful job to do in your driveway, but it's on the list ;-) Thanks -Greg |
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Definitely sounds like fuel, need to watch fuel pressure. Vanagons have a low rear outlet with fuel pump pulling about 2 feet away. vanagons also sometimes have an accumulator inline which also would help. Going downhill the pump may starve(usually make noise). If you don't have a pressure tester you can watch the O2 sensor, it will flatline at 0 volts if starving for fuel(otherwise be switching 0-1 volt). Verify you don't have the 7mm fuel tank outlet, only the 12mm should be used for conversion. I also think the Gowesty tank has some extra baffles to help this. you shouldn't need much fuel when going down hill, with no complaints going uphill under load would indicate pump, regulator and fuel restriction all are ok. Any idle control issues would be identified by holding a very slight throttle while driving, Its usually obvious. Long decelerations usually also trigger decel fuel shutoff. The ECM does turn it off under very high vacuum. Manuals may have problems if you go into decel in gear, then neutral or clutch halfway down. The engine will die because the computer is expecting auto trans. This will make O2 dive, but it will not effect fuel pressure. The problem needs to be identified as it happens. Replacing parts for me is stupid when you have no idea of what's going on. I have not even mentioned diagnosis with a scan tool... Yesterday I had a car that the customer spent over $3k trying to fix. I sold him 1 hour diagnosis and a vacuum hose... car fixed Richard Stratford ?
On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 02:53:55 PM PDT, RICHARD KOERNER <rjkinpb@...> wrote:
Hey, my name is Richard, and I'm the guy who suggested fuel tank replacement.? The fact that you can do this job, in your driveway....well, way beyond my abilities and tools...but encouragingly remarkable.? And I strongly suggest for others, I mean it wipes off a big opponent on the list of possible problem issues.? And yes, this is for Subie but also for Vanagons in general.
On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 02:27:51 PM PDT, Redder <greg.redder@...> wrote:
Mark...it's been on my list and highly suspicious given it's one of the only things not replaced.? I had the dang thing out of there a few years back....I really, really wish I'd have just swapped it out then.? That's an awful job to do in your driveway, but it's on the list ;-) Thanks -Greg |
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Thats a lower rear outlet on fuel tank... sorry Richard Stratford ?
On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 06:30:27 PM PDT, Richard Stratford <daritysden@...> wrote:
Definitely sounds like fuel, need to watch fuel pressure. Vanagons have a low rear outlet with fuel pump pulling about 2 feet away. vanagons also sometimes have an accumulator inline which also would help. Going downhill the pump may starve(usually make noise). If you don't have a pressure tester you can watch the O2 sensor, it will flatline at 0 volts if starving for fuel(otherwise be switching 0-1 volt). Verify you don't have the 7mm fuel tank outlet, only the 12mm should be used for conversion. I also think the Gowesty tank has some extra baffles to help this. you shouldn't need much fuel when going down hill, with no complaints going uphill under load would indicate pump, regulator and fuel restriction all are ok. Any idle control issues would be identified by holding a very slight throttle while driving, Its usually obvious. Long decelerations usually also trigger decel fuel shutoff. The ECM does turn it off under very high vacuum. Manuals may have problems if you go into decel in gear, then neutral or clutch halfway down. The engine will die because the computer is expecting auto trans. This will make O2 dive, but it will not effect fuel pressure. The problem needs to be identified as it happens. Replacing parts for me is stupid when you have no idea of what's going on. I have not even mentioned diagnosis with a scan tool... Yesterday I had a car that the customer spent over $3k trying to fix. I sold him 1 hour diagnosis and a vacuum hose... car fixed Richard Stratford ?
On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 02:53:55 PM PDT, RICHARD KOERNER <rjkinpb@...> wrote:
Hey, my name is Richard, and I'm the guy who suggested fuel tank replacement.? The fact that you can do this job, in your driveway....well, way beyond my abilities and tools...but encouragingly remarkable.? And I strongly suggest for others, I mean it wipes off a big opponent on the list of possible problem issues.? And yes, this is for Subie but also for Vanagons in general.
On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 02:27:51 PM PDT, Redder <greg.redder@...> wrote:
Mark...it's been on my list and highly suspicious given it's one of the only things not replaced.? I had the dang thing out of there a few years back....I really, really wish I'd have just swapped it out then.? That's an awful job to do in your driveway, but it's on the list ;-) Thanks -Greg |
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All,
While I brought up my fuel tank and evaporative containers being the only thing that I haven't replaced, including the engine, yet still having this problem, I find it odd that the original poster and I only see this problem when we push the clutch in.? So...in hindsight, while I had also replaced the clutch, I didn't touch any of the electronics associated with the actual pedal.? Maybe there's something there that would have triggered this problem with the original engine and with the EJ25 for both of us? -Greg |
Dr Mark
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