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1999 ej25 - Odd idle stumble at stop light diagnosis (long)

[email protected] #78911 I have battled this gremlin since the day I bought this van (PO had installed the ej25) and trying the collective wisdom of this board to see if anyone can steer me in the right direction. Symptoms:? * When coming to a stop and idling (i.e. at a stop light), the van will idle perfectly at 700rpm. * After about 20 seconds (feels exactly the same each time), the engine will stumble, and the rpm will fall, sometimes to the point of stalling. * The engine will then catch itself and begin idling again, although at a slightly lower rpm (650ish) * I notice that the o2 sensor (LP) indicates "CLOSED" when I pull up to the light. But right at the stumble will switch to "OPEN" and then remain in that state until I give it gas. Van runs great other than that. I recently started to see an P1102 error code pop (pressure solenoid malfunction), but appears to be unrelated timing to this stumble, which has been happening for 4+ years now. I thought it was at first the ECU switching between states, and this is a feature, not a bug. But the van shouldn't stall like this. I have learned to live with it. However it is frustrating.? Here is what I have done in order to track down the culprit: * New 02 sensors * New (used) ECU * New catalytic converter * Tune up (plugs, wires, air filter) * New (used) mass air flow meter * New (used) IAC (several of these actually) * New (used) TPS I've had the transmission rebuilt recently. While I had the transmission out I also completely rewired the harness and reinstalled. After all of this, it does the same thing!? Crazy! I've messed around with the manual/automatic settings. No change. I don't like upping the idle using the AC switch b/c that is a bandaid IMO. Any thoughts? I'll probably go through it again and tune it up... Thank you in advance!!!!! ~Jason 1984 Westfalia w/ ej25.
[email protected] All Messages By This Member #78912 I've only ever had a stumble/stall a few times and when it got worse I just had to clean the IACV. Do you have a VSS? Try a throttle body cleaner.
[email protected] #78913 Hi, I forgot to add to my original post that the van does have a CV joint style VSS that appears to be working (registering mph when van is moving). In my desire to resolve the issue I recently installed a gowesty speedometer style VSS which also works but does not change the behavior. I have cleaned the IACV multiple times and have swapped out with several but the behavior remains. Perhaps there is some improvement after thorough cleaning (in other words slightly less of a drop in idle during the stumble). I am going to go through it all again and clean everything.? My current thought is that its a small vacuum leak "somewhere"... Thanks for your reply, Jason
John C... All Messages By This Member #78914 Grounds seem to be a good starting point on these 20+ yr old vehicles. (good for wut' ale's ya ) JC... On Wednesday, September 5, 2018, 7:16:08 AM PDT, jasonpap2002@... [subaruvanagon] wrote: ? Hi, I forgot to add to my original post that the van does have a CV joint style VSS that appears to be working (registering mph when van is moving). In my desire to resolve the issue I recently installed a gowesty speedometer style VSS which also works but does not change the behavior. I have cleaned the IACV multiple times and have swapped out with several but the behavior remains. Perhaps there is some improvement after thorough cleaning (in other words slightly less of a drop in idle during the stumble). I am going to go through it all again and clean everything.? My current thought is that its a small vacuum leak "somewhere"... Thanks for your reply, Jason
SEAN GARRETT All Messages By This Member #78915 开云体育 I still battle idle issues with my 2000 , 2.5. In my Syncro we discovered a broken main vac line and a 4x4 actuator leak. These helped resolve some of the issue. One trouble shooting technique you can try is to unplug the IAC and drive it. See if it acts any different. Also can you see what the speed sensor is putting out at speed. We discovered a bad connection on my speed sensor as well. Gave intermittent readings to computer. Just some thoughts, hope they help.? - Sean G toggle quoted message Show quoted text On Sep 5, 2018, at 5:58 AM, jasonpap2002@... [subaruvanagon] <subaruvanagon@...> wrote: ? Hi, I forgot to add to my original post that the van does have a CV joint style VSS that appears to be working (registering mph when van is moving). In my desire to resolve the issue I recently installed a gowesty speedometer style VSS which also works but does not change the behavior. I have cleaned the IACV multiple times and have swapped out with several but the behavior remains. Perhaps there is some improvement after thorough cleaning (in other words slightly less of a drop in idle during the stumble). I am going to go through it all again and clean everything.? My current thought is that its a small vacuum leak "somewhere"... Thanks for your reply, Jason
Tom Shiels All Messages By This Member #78916 Hi Jason, A few more questions before we can comment: a) What vehicle did your engine and harness come from - what is the ECU number?? b) Is it wired for AT mode or MT mode? c) How is the Neutral input to the ECU wired? Tom Burlington ON
William Brady #78917 开云体育 Here’s what I used for my? toggle quoted message Show quoted text On Sep 5, 2018, at 7:27 AM, John Carpenter yacoltyayhoo@... [subaruvanagon] <subaruvanagon@...> wrote: ? Grounds seem to be a good starting point on these 20+ yr old vehicles. (good for wut' ale's ya ) JC... On Wednesday, September 5, 2018, 7:16:08 AM PDT, jasonpap2002@... [subaruvanagon] <subaruvanagon@...> wrote: ? Hi, I forgot to add to my original post that the van does have a CV joint style VSS that appears to be working (registering mph when van is moving). In my desire to resolve the issue I recently installed a gowesty speedometer style VSS which also works but does not change the behavior. I have cleaned the IACV multiple times and have swapped out with several but the behavior remains. Perhaps there is some improvement after thorough cleaning (in other words slightly less of a drop in idle during the stumble). I am going to go through it all again and clean everything.? My current thought is that its a small vacuum leak "somewhere"... Thanks for your reply, Jason
ANDREW All Messages By This Member #78918 Following... Have same in my 83.5 manual with 99 Forrester 2.5 auto (jumpered to man mode) Andy Vanis 505-304-5306 toggle quoted message Show quoted text On Tue, Sep 4, 2018, 7:59 PM jasonpap2002@... [subaruvanagon] <subaruvanagon@...> wrote: ? I have battled this gremlin since the day I bought this van (PO had installed the ej25) and trying the collective wisdom of this board to see if anyone can steer me in the right direction. Symptoms:? * When coming to a stop and idling (i.e. at a stop light), the van will idle perfectly at 700rpm. * After about 20 seconds (feels exactly the same each time), the engine will stumble, and the rpm will fall, sometimes to the point of stalling. * The engine will then catch itself and begin idling again, although at a slightly lower rpm (650ish) * I notice that the o2 sensor (LP) indicates "CLOSED" when I pull up to the light. But right at the stumble will switch to "OPEN" and then remain in that state until I give it gas. Van runs great other than that. I recently started to see an P1102 error code pop (pressure solenoid malfunction), but appears to be unrelated timing to this stumble, which has been happening for 4+ years now. I thought it was at first the ECU switching between states, and this is a feature, not a bug. But the van shouldn't stall like this. I have learned to live with it. However it is frustrating.? Here is what I have done in order to track down the culprit: * New 02 sensors * New (used) ECU * New catalytic converter * Tune up (plugs, wires, air filter) * New (used) mass air flow meter * New (used) IAC (several of these actually) * New (used) TPS I've had the transmission rebuilt recently. While I had the transmission out I also completely rewired the harness and reinstalled. After all of this, it does the same thing!? Crazy! I've messed around with the manual/automatic settings. No change. I don't like upping the idle using the AC switch b/c that is a bandaid IMO. Any thoughts? I'll probably go through it again and tune it up... Thank you in advance!!!!! ~Jason 1984 Westfalia w/ ej25.
[email protected] #78919 Hi Tom, Great questions. ECU: 22611 AE850,?ej25 out of a 1999 Forester Manual/Auto: I don't know if it was a manual or automatic car (PO installed it). I have to check as to how it is wired now. I've tried both manual and automatic modes and didn't see a difference. I was thinking I may try that again and disconnect power to the ECU between changes. Neutral input: This I need to check again to see how I wired it. I recall digging into the dark alley of reading how this needs to "change" occasionally for the ECU to register it. ~Jason
[email protected] #78920 Hi John, Solid point, I will clean all grounds I can find when I tune it up this weekend. Jason
[email protected] All Messages By This Member #78921 Do you have the VW charcoal canister setup? I tried hooking up one of the vacuum lines to the top throttle body vacuum with a 'tee' on my 02 2.5L. I had a significant (not occasional) rough idle and stalling, when coming to a stop, although it was fine with open throttle. I switched to a Subaru canister. Maybe something wrong with your VW charcoal canister setup if you are using it.
[email protected] #78922 Hi Wayne, I have the VW canister but it is not in use at the moment. Something to explore for sure, if that is something that helped your situation. Currently in the "complete tune up and search for vacuum leaks" mode - even have the throttle body off complete, getting new gasket and cleaning absolutely everything, checking all vacuum lines, etc. Thanks for your reply, will noodle on that. ~Jason
[email protected] #78923 Removed throttle body and cleaning thoroughly, new gasket, etc. Found a hidden vacuum port down low and in the back that may have been flaky. Fingers crossed that this is the problem but will continue going through all pieces before buttoning up and trying it. In this way I will strategically have too many variables to understand what exactly was the problem (if is fixed that is). ;-) Will post what I find out. Jason
[email protected] #78927 Hi, Wanted to provide an update. Made some changes - complete tune up with most everything disassembled and cleaned, plugs gapped, etc. I also rerouted the vacuum lines, removed an extra "T" fitting, etc. All cleaned up with new lines. My van does not have the cannister connected, nor the EGR valve. So my pressure solenoid switch does to the ether. I plugged up the one side of it. Regardless, after all that I see the the behavior still exists, although it is slightly better. I then noticed that the switch from CLSD to OPEN loop occurs much faster when the vehicle is registering a speed. Only when speed is zero does the ECU delay the switchover from CLSD to OPEN. It is this switch that causes the large idle stumble (every time I am at a stop light for instance).?? I am still wondering if there is something with my choice of AT or Manual mode, and also my Neutral settings. I will keep exploring this side of things. I am also considering building a small square wave generator to produce a basic signal that keeps the ECU thinking it is always moving. I don't love the solution but I consider it the next step in this discovery. More when I have it! Jason
Eric Freudenthal All Messages By This Member #78930 There are lots of pre-assembled 555 boards available for cheap.? I ordered one from amazon a few months ago for something like $5 with the intention of using it as square wave generator for this purpose.? ?I still need to (get around) to installing it.?? toggle quoted message Show quoted text On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 5:51 PM, jasonpap2002@... [subaruvanagon] <subaruvanagon@...> wrote: ? Hi, Wanted to provide an update. Made some changes - complete tune up with most everything disassembled and cleaned, plugs gapped, etc. I also rerouted the vacuum lines, removed an extra "T" fitting, etc. All cleaned up with new lines. My van does not have the cannister connected, nor the EGR valve. So my pressure solenoid switch does to the ether. I plugged up the one side of it. Regardless, after all that I see the the behavior still exists, although it is slightly better. I then noticed that the switch from CLSD to OPEN loop occurs much faster when the vehicle is registering a speed. Only when speed is zero does the ECU delay the switchover from CLSD to OPEN. It is this switch that causes the large idle stumble (every time I am at a stop light for instance).?? I am still wondering if there is something with my choice of AT or Manual mode, and also my Neutral settings. I will keep exploring this side of things. I am also considering building a small square wave generator to produce a basic signal that keeps the ECU thinking it is always moving. I don't love the solution but I consider it the next step in this discovery. More when I have it! Jason
OlRivrRat DeanB All Messages By This Member #78938 ?????????? @Jason Unless the '99 is Diff' from My '01, once the Eng' goes into ClosedLoop it should remain there ~ Then the only condition that Switches it Back to Open is WOT or Very High Eng' Load ~ Also , on My '01, the only Apparent Diff' between ECU set to AT or MT is that idle RPM is +50 in AT condition ~ I keep it in AT as I Prefer the 725RPM @Idle for Slightly Better OilPress' ~ ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ORR ~ DeanB
SEAN GARRETT All Messages By This Member #78931 Following with great interest. I don't have this unit as I have a speed sensor that's been working fine for over 10 years. But we tested it a few days ago and it stumbled (short in my OBD connector). If a wave generator works then I might be persuaded, as my idle issues continue. Sean G On Monday, September 10, 2018, 3:29:34 AM MST, Eric Freudenthal eric@... [subaruvanagon] wrote: ? There are lots of pre-assembled 555 boards available for cheap.? I ordered one from amazon a few months ago for something like $5 with the intention of using it as square wave generator for this purpose.? ?I still need to (get around) to installing it.?? toggle quoted message Show quoted text On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 5:51 PM, jasonpap2002@... [subaruvanagon] <subaruvanagon@...> wrote: ? Hi, Wanted to provide an update. Made some changes - complete tune up with most everything disassembled and cleaned, plugs gapped, etc. I also rerouted the vacuum lines, removed an extra "T" fitting, etc. All cleaned up with new lines. My van does not have the cannister connected, nor the EGR valve. So my pressure solenoid switch does to the ether. I plugged up the one side of it. Regardless, after all that I see the the behavior still exists, although it is slightly better. I then noticed that the switch from CLSD to OPEN loop occurs much faster when the vehicle is registering a speed. Only when speed is zero does the ECU delay the switchover from CLSD to OPEN. It is this switch that causes the large idle stumble (every time I am at a stop light for instance).?? I am still wondering if there is something with my choice of AT or Manual mode, and also my Neutral settings. I will keep exploring this side of things. I am also considering building a small square wave generator to produce a basic signal that keeps the ECU thinking it is always moving. I don't love the solution but I consider it the next step in this discovery. More when I have it! Jason
[email protected] #78932 Thanks folks - will keep you up to date as to progress. I bought a preassembled 555 square wave generator on Amazon and will see how it changes the behavior. I noticed this morning that the rapid switch from CLSD to OPEN will bounce back to CLSD - it has to also do with the TPS input too. Like I said, I hate bandaiding some of this work as it seems many folks do not have any issues like this at all.. I do a lot of microcontroller dev work and am likely to give a go at a small arduino answer that meets both the neutral switch and minimum speed capabilities.? Just words at this point, but the concept is easy enough -? More when I have it! Jason
OlRivrRat DeanB All Messages By This Member #78942 Just a Test > My Mess's don't post ~
Larry or Joan Alofs All Messages By This Member #78933 I used the cmos version of the 555 and connected its 50 Hz square wave to the vss and the neutral switch inputs. Mine is a 93 EJ22 Larry A.

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