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Northern Electric 3rd Rail Details

 

Friends,

While looking for an answer to Bill's question about cab interiors in Wikimedia Commons, I stumbled onto some very interesting SN stuff that probably most of us have never seen. I copied these pieces out and formatted them for ease of sharing. They will be coming your way over the next few days.

Today I have a very cool detailed diagram on how the NE/SN laid out the third rail at switches. Please enjoy. And yes, as this is over 100 years old, it is in the public domain.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff ??

NORTHERN ELECTRIC 3RD RAIL DIAGRAM.jpg

Re: Help with views of cab interiors of SN 660 or 661?

 

Hi Garth,

Thanks for the reply. Yes, a trip to see PE1624 might help, but these PE clones were actually a fair bit different in terms of details relative to SN 660-661. But it might serve as a starting point. I bought copies from the BAERA archives of series of about a dozen detail photos that EK Muller took of SN 661 as it was headed to scrap, but unfortunately not a single one of them showed any of the interior. I think part of the reason for the dearth of interior photos is that the cabs seem to have been quite cramped relative to those on the SN 650 class. But I am hopeful that someone, somewhere, at some time, took photos showing the interiors and that they will eventually come to light.

Cheers,

James
Re: Help with views of cab interiors of SN 660 or 661?

 

Jim,

I looked through my books and did some internet searching. Nada, except for one picture of a PE motor being scrapped in CARS OF PACIFIC ELECTRIC Vol. 3. No detail there -- the photo is pretty bad.

That said, PE 1624, preserved at the Southern California Railway Museum (formerly the OERM), is a Baldwin Class-D clone. Do I hear, "Field trip!"? Since this motor has had at least one restoration at the museum, they might have photos in their archives. Good luck getting to them. Like most museums, they are a volunteer group, and I have not had much luck with inquiries on another matter.

I would not be surprised if there were interior photos of some Class-D motor in the Electric Railway Journal.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff ??

On Thu, Apr 20, 2023 at 8:16?PM James Dolan <dolan@...> wrote:
Hi All,

Does anyone on this list have any images to share showing the cab interiors of SN 660 or 661? I'm hoping to model these accurately during a future project. I've seen many *(hundreds?) of views of the exteriors of these two, but precious few that show even hints of what the cab interiors looked like.?

Thanks in advance for any images you can share and/or pointing me towards any such views!

Cheers,

James

Re: Help with views of cab interiors of SN 660 or 661?

 

Thanks, Justin. Yes, I believe those are Class Bs, smaller than the Class D #660-661, but probably had similar interior layouts. But as you say, it might work as a worst-case scenario/last resort. I'm hopeful that someone on this list has an image or two that show the cab interiors.?

Cheers,

James
Re: Help with views of cab interiors of SN 660 or 661?

 

Iowa Traction Railroad still runs a Baldwin I believe. Worst case scenario you might get a general idea from there.?




On Thursday, April 20, 2023, 7:16 PM, James Dolan <dolan@...> wrote:

Hi All,

Does anyone on this list have any images to share showing the cab interiors of SN 660 or 661? I'm hoping to model these accurately during a future project. I've seen many *(hundreds?) of views of the exteriors of these two, but precious few that show even hints of what the cab interiors looked like.?

Thanks in advance for any images you can share and/or pointing me towards any such views!

Cheers,

James

Help with views of cab interiors of SN 660 or 661?

 

Hi All,

Does anyone on this list have any images to share showing the cab interiors of SN 660 or 661? I'm hoping to model these accurately during a future project. I've seen many *(hundreds?) of views of the exteriors of these two, but precious few that show even hints of what the cab interiors looked like.?

Thanks in advance for any images you can share and/or pointing me towards any such views!

Cheers,

James
Re: Steam

 

Bill,

The NE owned three steam locomotives, 1 and 2 were 4-4-0s, and 3 was a 2-6-0. NE 1 and 2 are shown on pages 280 and 281 of Demoro's book.

The OA&E rented ATSF 125, a 4-4-0 in 1913. They owned ex-SP 4-4-0 1369, and ex-SP 4-6-0 2012. OA&E 1369 is also on page 281 of Demoro's book.

There isn't much detail in your photo, but my money is on 1369.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff ?

On Mon, Apr 17, 2023 at 9:50?AM Bill Shippen <pitstopharold@...> wrote:
Hello.? Construction view of ? NE O&A? Several flats, a stock car, etc. Comments?
Steam

 

Hello.? Construction view of ? NE O&A? Several flats, a stock car, etc. Comments?
SN sign at Sacramento Union Station

 

Re: SN 2307 at Mulberry

 

?>>I can't see any brake equipment in the photo as posted. Bill, can you see the reservoir on the original photo? <<

No Sir, I examined this rather crappy print and can not see any evidence of brake equipment. She seems to be stripped to the bones. I figured the "MoW" car was the portable substation but wasn't sure. I do know this is Mulberry as the tank farm shows in the original print off to the right. ~Bill?
Re: SN 2307 at Mulberry

 

Bill and Friends,

Actually I can't. This picture and what it implies is completely new to me.

I can fill in some details about the car itself. SN 2307 was from SN series 2301-2328, purchased from the WP. They came to the SN on AFE 3-47, but the AFE is dated 5-7-48 (confused? So am I). SN 2307 was formerly WP 317933. WP 316001-318500 was a special number block begun in the late 1930s for 16001-series boxcars that were still on arch bar trucks, and thus soon ineligible for interchange except with WP subsidiaries SN and TS. All 28 cars were drawn from WP series 316001-318500, which was being scrapped out?after?WWII. There is some evidence I can no longer find in my documents that some or all of the 2301-group were originally WP ventilator cars in series 30001-30200 built by Mt. Vernon in 1917. In the late 1920s all the ventilators were rebuilt as plain boxcars with steel ends, and apparently mixed at random with the other plain boxcars in series 16001-18300 that were also being rebuilt at that time.

I have often wondered if the 2301 boxcars came to the SN with AB brakes. I can't see any brake equipment in the photo as posted. Bill, can you see the reservoir on the original photo??When they were "unretired" SN 2329-2350 did receive?AB brakes, but there is no AFE on the Copeland list relating to such a conversion for 2301-2328.?

That this car has had its sides completely stripped by the?SN is new information to me. Perhaps this was done to other?cars in this block, but I have no?documents to suggest this. Certainly some 2301-2328 cars in this group were simply repainted with the arched "Sacramento Northern" without the sides being replaced, as the old WP herald shows through on some, such SN 2324 in the Will Whittaker photo.

SN 2307 was retired 9/59 and sold to F.L. [?] Botsford 1/60. After that, its fate is unknown, though some Botsford cars may have been resold as storage sheds.

Bill, is "what looks like an MW car" the one in the distance seen through the body near the B-end? If so, it?appears to be Substation 1. Note the hinged ventilator panels just below the roofline.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff ??

On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 8:50?PM Bill Shippen <pitstopharold@...> wrote:
Folks: Here is 2307 being rebuilt at MULBERRY. Garth I'm sure can fill in the details. There is a flat motor in the background along with what looks to be some kind of MoW car. ~Bill Shippen?
SN 2307 at Mulberry

 

Folks: Here is 2307 being rebuilt at MULBERRY. Garth I'm sure can fill in the details. There is a flat motor in the background along with what looks to be some kind of MoW car. ~Bill Shippen?
Re: 2316 and the 441

 

Hi Bill,

Very interesting photo. Thanks for posting!

Cheers,

James
2316 and the 441

 

Robert Larkin photographed 441 at Marysville in 1947. Note 2316 has just been patched with the WP logo on the door still intact.
Mikon Tower

 

Here's a Savage view on Oct12, 1939 as 654 in basic dip black bangs across the SP on the Woodland line with boxcar 2138 and a Texaco tank car.
Re: Electric and Wagons

 

How cool is that !

The Electric Lock for the switch on the mainline was D28 .... That applies to both mainline switches at the cross-over south of the depot at Marysville.


On Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 12:12?AM Bill Shippen <pitstopharold@...> wrote:
Marysville.?
Electric and Wagons

 

Marysville.?
Re: CCT #6

 

Meant to say that I like this version with the pantograph better than the one with just trolley pled.


Dan

On 04/09/2023 11:09 AM rrmaven <dan.shirleylee@...> wrote:


Thanks for posting.
Personally, I think this one more than the original version; to me it looks
much more "solid" and screams "heavy-duty traction".

Dan Lee, San Jose
On 04/09/2023 9:05 AM Bill Shippen <pitstopharold@...> wrote:


Here is #6 in later years.?

Re: CCT #6

 

Thanks for posting.
Personally, I think this one more than the original version; to me it looks
much more "solid" and screams "heavy-duty traction".

Dan Lee, San Jose

On 04/09/2023 9:05 AM Bill Shippen <pitstopharold@...> wrote:


Here is #6 in later years.?

Re: CCT #6

 

Here is #6 in later years.?
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