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Thanks Garth,

These are fabulous.? I am in N.? I just finished doing a 3D model of SP S-40-5, -9 and -10 in N Scale and thinking of doing the same for WP/SN (see attached).? Given my general era I would probably do a WP.? The photo seems to have an SP on the tail that is very similar to what I have done.

Best Regards,

Ken Harstine

On 3/13/2021 2:08 PM, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford wrote:

Ken,

The WP had several early classes which are really hard to find in photos. The best information comes from the WP General Arrangement drawings, which are likely available through the FRRS Portola museum. Frank Brehm used to have several sets available on his WP Lives web pages, but he took them down "temporarily", and they have never returned. Trying to reconstruct the various groups from ORER listings isn't easy, as they tended to get rebuilt with second decks. Jim Eager's WESTERN PACIFIC COLOR GUIDE mentions 75001-75200 rebuilt by WP from ballast gondolas in 1913, later renumbered 75351-75450. They had truss rods and probably wooden underframes. These were followed by 150 Mt. Vernon cars in 1917 as 75201-75350. I have attached a Will Whittaker photo which shows some cars from this class on the SN at Marysville.

Fortunately, if you are working in HO, there are models available for some WP stock cars. WP 38' cars 75501-75699 built in 1924-1925 by PC&F were a knock off the SP's S40-8, with 100 converted to double-deck in 1937 as 75101-75200. These are very close to the Red Caboose/Intermountain car, except for the missing partially-open ends, and Westerfield has done them correctly in resin as both single and double-deck. WP converted 200 of their 15001 Pullman single-sheathed boxcars to single-deck 40' stock cars in 1927-28 as 75801-76000, followed by 232 more in 1935-37 extending the series to 76323. One of this series survives in the CSRM collection. Andy Carlson made a resin kit for these many years ago, and he occasionally knocks off a few more from time to time but they are sold within minutes when he announces them on the Steam Era Freight Car Group. I have one that was given to me years ago that I will assemble someday if I ever work in HO again (I'm into British O-scale narrow gauge these days).

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff ??

On Sat, Mar 13, 2021 at 9:18 AM Ken Harstine <kharstin@...> wrote:

Thanks Garth,

Looks like I also need to get information on WP stock cars.? I saw a photo of a model of these.?

Best Regards,

Ken Harstine

On 3/13/2021 5:40 AM, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford wrote:

Ken,

Absolutely, though just six.

Northern Electric Railway built 6 stock cars numbered?3000-3005, probably in 1917.?Their inside length was 38' 11 1/2", with an inside height of 8', inside width 8' 4". Their total volume was 2594 cubic feet. They were rated for 80,000 pounds. The bodies were all-wood, with truss rods, and rode on arch bar trucks.?Curious that these cars had a 40' outside length, when most comparable cars were around 38'.?Given their exact 40' outside length, I suspect these might have been conversions?of NE's original Fitzhugh-Luther flat cars, but have found no firm evidence to back this up. However, the 1928 valuation in my collection says "rebuilt 1917".?A careful look at the ORERs in the CSRM library might show a drop of six flat cars around that time, but the 40' flat cars were fodder for all sorts of other conversions,?so this might not work.

The only photo I have ever seen of these came from the BAERA/WRM courtesy of Bart Nadeau, their number 41639NE I think (see attached). It is a shot of 1020 with the six brand new cars trailing off into the distance to one of the big cabooses. Interestingly, the stock cars are carefully posed in descending numerical order from 3005 back. They kept the same numbers under Sacramento Northern Railroad ownership.

By January 1929 (I have that particular?ORER listing) the stock cars had been renumbered 5000-5005, probably to avoid conflict with San Francisco-Sacramento Short Line boxcars in the 3001-3009 series during the merger into the Sacramento Northern Railway.

All six cars were listed as retired on WP AFE 32-34, victims of the post-merger purge of unneeded equipment. After that, the SNRY used WP stock cars.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff ???

On Fri, Mar 12, 2021 at 9:51 PM Ken Harstine <kharstin@...> wrote:

Did the SN have stock cars?

Any images out there of them?

Thanks,
Ken Harstine