|
I'm in the process of reinstalling my rudder (rebuilt by Foss Foam in Florida) and new bearings (from Tides Marine and made to the specs provided by Glen) and looking for advice.? ?I've reviewed all the photos that Dave Short provided but any additional info would be greatly appreciated.? A key concern I have is that when I test fit the new bearings in the hull tube there is a bit of play.? If I install the bearings in the tube first and they aren't exactly aligned I think that is going to be a problem.? Second, when I test fit the new bearings on the rudder post they are really tight ... so tight that I could only get them on about 2" without being concerned that if I pushed them further I wouldn't be able to get them off by hand.? I soaked one in hot water to expand it and then it slid on easily but still snug.?
?
All advice is appreciated.
--
Roger Kuebel
Restless
S362#150
Padanaram, MA
|
Roger -
?
I dropped my rudder in the fall, and can speak to a couple of your questions.
?
My lower rudder bearing was also a bit loose when placed into the tube in the hull, however when you use 3M 5200 and the two screws to set it in place, once that all cures it is rock solid. ?As far as alignment, as long as you mount the rudder back into place before the 5200 cures then everything should line up just fine, that is how it worked for me.
?
My old rudder bearing also had issues being tight where they drilled holes in the rudder post. ?I was able to file the burrs on the edges of the holes off and then everything worked fine. ?If yours are tight even where the shaft is true, that sounds like a judgement call about how tight it is and if it will bind when the rudder turns or not.
?
Good luck!
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
--
Tim Dokken
1985 Sabre 32 #59
Bayfield, WI
|
Hello,
?
My name is Barry and I am the new owner of a ¡®97 362 (hull #181) and I was hoping I could get some help and advice. ?I have spent the winter going through the boat system by system and fixing whatever deficiencies I have found (quite a few) as well as flagged items from the survey.
?
One of the things that came up on the survey was that the rudder is ¡°floating¡± up and rubbing against the hull causing it to wear through the bottom paint and into the gel coat. ?The lateral movement in the lower bearing was fairly minor. ?Yesterday I took apart the steering and lowered the rudder the few inches that I could with the boat on jacks. ?The lower bearing is recessed in the hull by approximately a half inch (I did not measure it) and I am thinking that this may be the problem. ?I see absolutely nothing wrong with the upper - zero play.
?
I have been lurking on this site for a few months and have read some of the earlier posts about rudders but my problem seems to be a little different.
?
My questions are:
?
Is the bottom edge of the lower bearing what limits the rudder from ¡°floating¡± up? ?I see nothing at the top of the rudder stock the would do it.
?
if so, is there an objective measurement that tells me where to position the new bearing or is it something that I need to figure out during installation?
?
I am assuming that my lower has broken free from the tube and will come out fairly easily but, if not, what is the best way to pull it? ?Are there set screws in the 362?
Roger, can you post, send me, or point me to the specs for the bearings and the photos that you referred to.
?
Thanks in advance. ?This site is a great resource - especially for us novices.
?
B
?
|
Attached 1. Sabre steering system drawing. 2. some photos of
completed replacement.? Yard did the work, not me.
Perhaps these will help a bit
On 4/5/2025 1:04 PM, B Lamb via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hello,
?
My name is Barry and I am the new owner of a ¡®97 362 (hull
#181) and I was hoping I could get some help and advice. ?I have
spent the winter going through the boat system by system and
fixing whatever deficiencies I have found (quite a few) as well
as flagged items from the survey.
?
One of the things that came up on the survey was that the
rudder is ¡°floating¡± up and rubbing against the hull causing it
to wear through the bottom paint and into the gel coat. ?The
lateral movement in the lower bearing was fairly minor.
?Yesterday I took apart the steering and lowered the rudder the
few inches that I could with the boat on jacks. ?The lower
bearing is recessed in the hull by approximately a half inch (I
did not measure it) and I am thinking that this may be the
problem. ?I see absolutely nothing wrong with the upper - zero
play.
?
I have been lurking on this site for a few months and have
read some of the earlier posts about rudders but my problem
seems to be a little different.
?
My questions are:
?
Is the bottom edge of the lower bearing what limits the
rudder from ¡°floating¡± up? ?I see nothing at the top of the
rudder stock the would do it.
?
if so, is there an objective measurement that tells me where
to position the new bearing or is it something that I need to
figure out during installation?
?
I am assuming that my lower has broken free from the tube and
will come out fairly easily but, if not, what is the best way to
pull it? ?Are there set screws in the 362?
Roger, can you post, send me, or point me to the specs for the
bearings and the photos that you referred to.
?
Thanks in advance. ?This site is a great resource -
especially for us novices.
?
B
?
--
Dave Short
SV One Timer 1997 S362
Mt Desert, ME
|
Barry,
?
Attached are the specs for the bearing.? I got this from Glen Chaplin at Sabre.? The photos I referred to are the ones Dave Short sent.? As you saw in Dave's photos, the lower bearing is mounted flush with the hull, and was epoxied in.? Tides Marine, who made my bearings (and I believe also made the originals) also said to epoxy them in.? However, my original ones were installed with 5200, which is what Glen also said for the replacements.? My inclination is to use 5200, as once epoxied I don't think they could be removed without damage to the hull tube.?
?
As noted in my prior post on the topic, I am having an issue with the bearings being really tight on the rudder post.? Yesterday I sanded the rudder post to ensure it was perfectly smooth, and although I could get the bearings on by warming them slightly, once they cooled to the ambient temp (mid 40s here on the MA south coast) they became so tight I could not turn them by hand.? I'm still trying to figure out what to do.
--
Roger Kuebel
Restless
S362#150
Padanaram, MA
|
Boyz
1. My yard epoxied the bearings in but I share Roger's concern about
if they ever have to come out again.? Except, at my age for better
or worse, not likely my problem.? Sailing in deep Maine waters, not
a lot of sediment get kicked up.? Yard said they were installed with
a parsimonious amount of 5200.? The bottom one had come loose
(crossing Gulf of Maine to Nova Scotia of course), that's what
alerted me to problem.
I believe my boat spent some of its early life in dirty water ( .
. .. .oh Boston your my home).? Damage photo below.
2. I would check with Tides on the fit.? Mine were not tight.
On 4/6/2025 9:45 AM, Roger Kuebel
362#150 Padanaram, MA via groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Barry,
?
Attached are the specs for the bearing.? I got this from Glen
Chaplin at Sabre.? The photos I referred to are the ones Dave
Short sent.? As you saw in Dave's photos, the lower bearing is
mounted flush with the hull, and was epoxied in.? Tides Marine,
who made my bearings (and I believe also made the originals)
also said to epoxy them in.? However, my original ones were
installed with 5200, which is what Glen also said for the
replacements.? My inclination is to use 5200, as once epoxied I
don't think they could be removed without damage to the hull
tube.?
?
As noted in my prior post on the topic, I am having an issue
with the bearings being really tight on the rudder post.?
Yesterday I sanded the rudder post to ensure it was perfectly
smooth, and although I could get the bearings on by warming them
slightly, once they cooled to the ambient temp (mid 40s here on
the MA south coast) they became so tight I could not turn them
by hand.? I'm still trying to figure out what to do.
--
Roger Kuebel
Restless
S362#150
Padanaram, MA
--
Dave Short
SV One Timer 1997 S362
Mt Desert, ME
|
Dave,
Did Tides make your new ones?
Roger Kuebel
Restless
S362#150
Padanaram, MA
Boyz
1. My yard epoxied the bearings in but I share Roger's concern about if they ever have to come out again.? Except, at my age for better or worse, not likely my problem.? Sailing in deep Maine waters, not a lot of sediment get kicked up.? Yard said they were
installed with a parsimonious amount of 5200.? The bottom one had come loose (crossing Gulf of Maine to Nova Scotia of course), that's what alerted me to problem.
I believe my boat spent some of its early life in dirty water ( . . .. .oh Boston your my home).? Damage photo below.
2. I would check with Tides on the fit.? Mine were not tight.
On 4/6/2025 9:45 AM, Roger Kuebel 362#150 Padanaram, MA via groups.io wrote:
Barry,
?
Attached are the specs for the bearing.? I got this from Glen Chaplin at Sabre.? The photos I referred to are the ones Dave Short sent.? As you saw in Dave's photos, the lower bearing is mounted
flush with the hull, and was epoxied in.? Tides Marine, who made my bearings (and I believe also made the originals) also said to epoxy them in.? However, my original ones were installed with 5200, which is what Glen also said for the replacements.? My inclination
is to use 5200, as once epoxied I don't think they could be removed without damage to the hull tube.?
?
As noted in my prior post on the topic, I am having an issue with the bearings being really tight on the rudder post.? Yesterday I sanded the rudder post to ensure it was perfectly smooth, and although
I could get the bearings on by warming them slightly, once they cooled to the ambient temp (mid 40s here on the MA south coast) they became so tight I could not turn them by hand.? I'm still trying to figure out what to do.
--
Roger Kuebel
Restless
S362#150
Padanaram, MA
--
Dave Short
SV One Timer 1997 S362
Mt Desert, ME
-- Roger Kuebel RestlessS362#150 Padanaram, MA
|
yes
Attached is bearing drawing
Rudder Bearing Replacement -- Labor to: measure rudder tube,
bearings, rudder shaft, send information to bearing manufacturer and
owner. Order two new bearings and one thrust bearing washer. Prep
interior surface of rudder tube in worn areas, then apply 3 coats of
Pettit Protect (2 part epoxy paint) to make rudder tube smaller and
fit new bearing snug. Fill/ fair bottom edge of bearing flange for
smooth finish surface. Install new bearings with thickened epoxy
(from bottom and top), and fit rudder shaft into place. Align Rudder
with trailing edge of keel prior to epoxy hardening. Reassemble
rudder quadrant and tension steering cables.
16.5 hr @ $55.00?? $907.50
Color Restoring & Waxing Hull -- Labor to: tape off bottom
paint, and preform an efficient process of applying compound and
power buff/ wax topsides of the hull. Hand wipe to remove excess wax
and remove tape.?
7.25 hr @ $53.00?? $384.25
On 4/6/2025 10:04 AM, Roger Kuebel
362#150 Padanaram, MA via groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Dave,
Did Tides make your new ones?
Roger Kuebel
Restless
S362#150
Padanaram, MA
Boyz
1. My yard epoxied the bearings in but I share Roger's
concern about if they ever have to come out again.? Except,
at my age for better or worse, not likely my problem.?
Sailing in deep Maine waters, not a lot of sediment get
kicked up.? Yard said they were installed with a
parsimonious amount of 5200.? The bottom one had come loose
(crossing Gulf of Maine to Nova Scotia of course), that's
what alerted me to problem.
I believe my boat spent some of its early life in dirty
water ( . . .. .oh Boston your my home).? Damage photo
below.
2. I would check with Tides on the fit.? Mine were not
tight.
On 4/6/2025 9:45 AM, Roger Kuebel
362#150 Padanaram, MA via groups.io wrote:
Barry,
?
Attached
are the specs for the bearing.? I got this from Glen
Chaplin at Sabre.? The photos I referred to are the ones
Dave Short sent.? As you saw in Dave's photos, the lower
bearing is mounted flush with the hull, and was epoxied
in.? Tides Marine, who made my bearings (and I believe
also made the originals) also said to epoxy them in.?
However, my original ones were installed with 5200, which
is what Glen also said for the replacements.? My
inclination is to use 5200, as once epoxied I don't think
they could be removed without damage to the hull tube.?
?
As
noted in my prior post on the topic, I am having an issue
with the bearings being really tight on the rudder post.?
Yesterday I sanded the rudder post to ensure it was
perfectly smooth, and although I could get the bearings on
by warming them slightly, once they cooled to the ambient
temp (mid 40s here on the MA south coast) they became so
tight I could not turn them by hand.? I'm still trying to
figure out what to do.
--
Roger
Kuebel
Restless
S362#150
Padanaram, MA
--
Dave Short
SV One Timer 1997 S362
Mt Desert, ME
--
Roger Kuebel
Restless
S362#150
Padanaram, MA
--
Dave Short
SV One Timer 1997 S362
Mt Desert, ME
|
Does anyone know what material the Tides bearings are made from?
yes
Attached is bearing drawing
Rudder Bearing Replacement -- Labor to: measure rudder tube, bearings, rudder shaft, send information to bearing manufacturer and owner. Order two new bearings and one thrust bearing washer. Prep interior surface of rudder tube in worn areas, then apply 3 coats
of Pettit Protect (2 part epoxy paint) to make rudder tube smaller and fit new bearing snug. Fill/ fair bottom edge of bearing flange for smooth finish surface. Install new bearings with thickened epoxy (from bottom and top), and fit rudder shaft into place.
Align Rudder with trailing edge of keel prior to epoxy hardening. Reassemble rudder quadrant and tension steering cables.
16.5 hr @ $55.00?? $907.50
Color Restoring & Waxing Hull -- Labor to: tape off bottom paint, and preform an efficient process of applying compound and power buff/ wax topsides of the hull. Hand wipe to remove excess wax and remove tape.?
7.25 hr @ $53.00?? $384.25
On 4/6/2025 10:04 AM, Roger Kuebel 362#150 Padanaram, MA via groups.io wrote:
Dave,
Did Tides make your new ones?
Roger Kuebel
Restless
S362#150
Padanaram, MA
Boyz
1. My yard epoxied the bearings in but I share Roger's concern about if they ever have to come out again.? Except, at my age for better or worse, not likely my problem.? Sailing in deep Maine waters, not a lot of sediment get kicked up.? Yard said they were
installed with a parsimonious amount of 5200.? The bottom one had come loose (crossing Gulf of Maine to Nova Scotia of course), that's what alerted me to problem.
I believe my boat spent some of its early life in dirty water ( . . .. .oh Boston your my home).? Damage photo below.
2. I would check with Tides on the fit.? Mine were not tight.
On 4/6/2025 9:45 AM, Roger Kuebel 362#150 Padanaram, MA via groups.io wrote:
Barry,
?
Attached are the specs for the bearing.? I got this from Glen Chaplin at Sabre.? The photos I referred to are the ones Dave Short sent.? As you saw in Dave's photos, the lower bearing is mounted
flush with the hull, and was epoxied in.? Tides Marine, who made my bearings (and I believe also made the originals) also said to epoxy them in.? However, my original ones were installed with 5200, which is what Glen also said for the replacements.? My inclination
is to use 5200, as once epoxied I don't think they could be removed without damage to the hull tube.?
?
As noted in my prior post on the topic, I am having an issue with the bearings being really tight on the rudder post.? Yesterday I sanded the rudder post to ensure it was perfectly smooth, and although
I could get the bearings on by warming them slightly, once they cooled to the ambient temp (mid 40s here on the MA south coast) they became so tight I could not turn them by hand.? I'm still trying to figure out what to do.
--
Roger Kuebel
Restless
S362#150
Padanaram, MA
--
Dave Short
SV One Timer 1997 S362
Mt Desert, ME
--
Roger Kuebel
Restless
S362#150
Padanaram, MA
--
Dave Short
SV One Timer 1997 S362
Mt Desert, ME
-- Roger Kuebel RestlessS362#150 Padanaram, MA
|
The drawing attached earlier called for UHMW, which is " ultra high molecular weight polyethylene ". A hard slippery plastic.? Mike s/v Ladylike?
Michael Sterling
Ph. 252-646-9610
On Sun, Apr 6, 2025, 11:49?AM Roger Kuebel 362#150 Padanaram, MA via <rogerkuebel= [email protected]> wrote:
Does anyone know what material the Tides bearings are made from?
yes
Attached is bearing drawing
Rudder Bearing Replacement -- Labor to: measure rudder tube, bearings, rudder shaft, send information to bearing manufacturer and owner. Order two new bearings and one thrust bearing washer. Prep interior surface of rudder tube in worn areas, then apply 3 coats
of Pettit Protect (2 part epoxy paint) to make rudder tube smaller and fit new bearing snug. Fill/ fair bottom edge of bearing flange for smooth finish surface. Install new bearings with thickened epoxy (from bottom and top), and fit rudder shaft into place.
Align Rudder with trailing edge of keel prior to epoxy hardening. Reassemble rudder quadrant and tension steering cables.
16.5 hr @ $55.00?? $907.50
Color Restoring & Waxing Hull -- Labor to: tape off bottom paint, and preform an efficient process of applying compound and power buff/ wax topsides of the hull. Hand wipe to remove excess wax and remove tape.?
7.25 hr @ $53.00?? $384.25
On 4/6/2025 10:04 AM, Roger Kuebel 362#150 Padanaram, MA via wrote:
Dave,
Did Tides make your new ones?
Roger Kuebel
Restless
S362#150
Padanaram, MA
Boyz
1. My yard epoxied the bearings in but I share Roger's concern about if they ever have to come out again.? Except, at my age for better or worse, not likely my problem.? Sailing in deep Maine waters, not a lot of sediment get kicked up.? Yard said they were
installed with a parsimonious amount of 5200.? The bottom one had come loose (crossing Gulf of Maine to Nova Scotia of course), that's what alerted me to problem.
I believe my boat spent some of its early life in dirty water ( . . .. .oh Boston your my home).? Damage photo below.
2. I would check with Tides on the fit.? Mine were not tight.
On 4/6/2025 9:45 AM, Roger Kuebel 362#150 Padanaram, MA via wrote:
Barry,
?
Attached are the specs for the bearing.? I got this from Glen Chaplin at Sabre.? The photos I referred to are the ones Dave Short sent.? As you saw in Dave's photos, the lower bearing is mounted
flush with the hull, and was epoxied in.? Tides Marine, who made my bearings (and I believe also made the originals) also said to epoxy them in.? However, my original ones were installed with 5200, which is what Glen also said for the replacements.? My inclination
is to use 5200, as once epoxied I don't think they could be removed without damage to the hull tube.?
?
As noted in my prior post on the topic, I am having an issue with the bearings being really tight on the rudder post.? Yesterday I sanded the rudder post to ensure it was perfectly smooth, and although
I could get the bearings on by warming them slightly, once they cooled to the ambient temp (mid 40s here on the MA south coast) they became so tight I could not turn them by hand.? I'm still trying to figure out what to do.
--
Roger Kuebel
Restless
S362#150
Padanaram, MA
--
Dave Short
SV One Timer 1997 S362
Mt Desert, ME
--
Roger Kuebel
Restless
S362#150
Padanaram, MA
--
Dave Short
SV One Timer 1997 S362
Mt Desert, ME
--
Roger Kuebel
Restless
S362#150
Padanaram, MA
|
a lot like Delrin
On 4/6/2025 11:52 AM, Michael Sterling
via groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
The drawing attached earlier called for UHMW, which is "
ultra high molecular weight polyethylene ".
A hard slippery plastic.?
Mike
s/v Ladylike?
Michael Sterling
Ph. 252-646-9610
On Sun, Apr 6, 2025, 11:49?AM
Roger Kuebel 362#150 Padanaram, MA via
<rogerkuebel= [email protected]>
wrote:
Does anyone know what material the Tides bearings are
made from?
yes
Attached is bearing drawing
Rudder Bearing Replacement -- Labor to: measure rudder
tube, bearings, rudder shaft, send information to
bearing manufacturer and owner. Order two new bearings
and one thrust bearing washer. Prep interior surface
of rudder tube in worn areas, then apply 3 coats of
Pettit Protect (2 part epoxy paint) to make rudder
tube smaller and fit new bearing snug. Fill/ fair
bottom edge of bearing flange for smooth finish
surface. Install new bearings with thickened epoxy
(from bottom and top), and fit rudder shaft into
place. Align Rudder with trailing edge of keel prior
to epoxy hardening. Reassemble rudder quadrant and
tension steering cables.
16.5 hr @ $55.00?? $907.50
Color Restoring & Waxing Hull -- Labor to: tape
off bottom paint, and preform an efficient process of
applying compound and power buff/ wax topsides of the
hull. Hand wipe to remove excess wax and remove tape.?
7.25 hr @ $53.00?? $384.25
On 4/6/2025 10:04 AM, Roger Kuebel 362#150
Padanaram, MA via wrote:
Dave,
Did Tides make your new ones?
Roger Kuebel
Restless
S362#150
Padanaram, MA
Boyz
1. My yard epoxied the bearings in but I share
Roger's concern about if they ever have to come
out again.? Except, at my age for better or worse,
not likely my problem.? Sailing in deep Maine
waters, not a lot of sediment get kicked up.? Yard
said they were installed with a parsimonious
amount of 5200.? The bottom one had come loose
(crossing Gulf of Maine to Nova Scotia of course),
that's what alerted me to problem.
I believe my boat spent some of its early life in
dirty water ( . . .. .oh Boston your my home).?
Damage photo below.
2. I would check with Tides on the fit.? Mine were
not tight.
On 4/6/2025 9:45 AM, Roger Kuebel 362#150
Padanaram, MA via wrote:
Barry,
?
Attached are the specs for the bearing.? I
got this from Glen Chaplin at Sabre.? The photos
I referred to are the ones Dave Short sent.? As
you saw in Dave's photos, the lower bearing is
mounted flush with the hull, and was epoxied
in.? Tides Marine, who made my bearings (and I
believe also made the originals) also said to
epoxy them in.? However, my original ones were
installed with 5200, which is what Glen also
said for the replacements.? My inclination is to
use 5200, as once epoxied I don't think they
could be removed without damage to the hull
tube.?
?
As noted in my prior post on the topic, I am
having an issue with the bearings being really
tight on the rudder post.? Yesterday I sanded
the rudder post to ensure it was perfectly
smooth, and although I could get the bearings on
by warming them slightly, once they cooled to
the ambient temp (mid 40s here on the MA south
coast) they became so tight I could not turn
them by hand.? I'm still trying to figure out
what to do.
--
Roger Kuebel
Restless
S362#150
Padanaram, MA
--
Dave Short
SV One Timer 1997 S362
Mt Desert, ME
--
Roger Kuebel
Restless
S362#150
Padanaram, MA
--
Dave Short
SV One Timer 1997 S362
Mt Desert, ME
--
Roger Kuebel
Restless
S362#150
Padanaram, MA
--
Dave Short
SV One Timer 1997 S362
Mt Desert, ME
|
Tim Dokken
David Short, SV One Timer, 1997 362, Mt Desert, ME
.JPG)
.JPG)
.JPG)