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Re: SAE / GAS / SUMO modifications
James Bongiorno
Dear Paul,
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All I can say to someone who would butcher a 7T like that is go back to the planet that you came from. True, the "circuitry" of the 7T left something to be desired, but with new modern circuitry, leaving all else alone, yields a not to bad preamp. As far as other nightmares, the most common is Ampzillas that have been worked on by the GAS works in Idaho wherein the unit went up in a flaming catastrophe. I had to completely reconstruct the foil patterns on the PC boards. I sure hope I never see one of them again. There are others but the list is too long to go on here. James Paul Anthony Bigelow wrote: Dear James, |
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SAE / GAS / SUMO modifications
Paul Anthony Bigelow
Dear James,
Besides part substitutions, what sort of ersatz "modifications" have you seen to the equipment you designed? Do you have any humorous horror stories regarding modifications? One of the craziest I have seen was a Marantz 7T, the innards of which had been almost completely gutted, replaced by a breadboarded tube design. The tone controls and switches were left in place but not connected. The power supply to the now (ahem) "7C" was an external grey box that looked like a circuit breaker box! Quite a sight. Best regards, Paul Bigelow |
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Re: Open note to James Bongiorno
James Bongiorno
Dear Jack,
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Thanks for the kind words. Most of the products I do go smoothly however, once in a while I run into a real bear such as previous mods by others or (which is the worst case) changes in PC board layouts which sometimes leads to stability problems of which I have to spend days trying to work out. Oh well, no extra charge for this. Your purchase of the 2400 is interesting as it is a carbon copy, part for part, of my Ampzilla. I have already done a couple of them. Since the price wasn't included in my original schedule, I am attaching the newer schedule. Hear from you soon. James Bongiorno Jack Parker wrote: About 2 years ago I shorted the speaker terminals of my SAE 2200. I |
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SAE styling and metalwork
Paul Anthony Bigelow
Hello,
Does anyone else find the styling and metalwork of the early SAE equipment attractive? I sure find it attractive -- simple, yet elegant. Plus, the rounded corners of the brushed aluminum cases makes it easy on the fingers to carry! Now that was a time -- both circuit innovation, and the desire to place these electronics in an sturdy, attractive case. Best regards, Paul Bigelow |
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Open note to James Bongiorno
Jack Parker
About 2 years ago I shorted the speaker terminals of my SAE 2200. I
had bought this amp in 1978 And was depressed over its loss. Then I spotted an add you had placed and, to make a long story short, you did a fine job of restoring my 2200 to daily service. Recently, I purchased an SAE 2400L which I'll be sending to you for refurbishment which brings me to the purpose of this Email. Now that I know who you are, I have often wished that you had personalized the repair you did on the SAE 2200 by signing the case as having been repaired by you. Besides the bragging rights that would bring, it should also increase the value of the equipment. A personalized metalic sticker stating something like,"Refurbished by James Bongiorno on (space for date)" would be perfect. Your name on this sticker should be the duplicate of your signature. Please consider this for your future refurbishments. I hope that the members of this group will agree with me as to the desireability of your personal signature on their restored equipment. I'll be contacting you soon about the 2400L. Thanks for all you have done and the years of enjoyment I've received from the SAE brand of equipment. Best regards, Jack Parker |
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Re: Thaedra / Phono2 servo control
Paul Anthony Bigelow
Dear James,
I am NOT kidding. I do not know the prior history of this unit (pre 1993-1994). All I know is that some sloppy repair work had been done on the power supply board and around a grouping of three transistors on the main "mother board" (part of the relay circuitry?). Otherwise, the unit is in fantastic shape and performs beautifully. Someone may have adjusted it prior to my having it but it has held steady ever since (6-7 years). I do keep it well ventilated so that might explain the performance. Having 2% resistors all over the place probably doesn't hurt either! Best regards, Paul Bigelow --- In SAE_Talk@..., James Bongiorno <sstinc@e...> wrote: Dear Paul,years? I must be a genius.exactly easiestsurewhether we put the servo on early phono (mag) cards. The op-ampway to tellis to look at the card and see if it has a dual (8 pin dip) theIC on it.The primary reason for the servo on the MC card was because of Noenormousamount of CLOSED loop gain ie: 70 dB's @ 1KHz RIAA equalized. theone inhistory has ever accomplished this before or since. On the lineamp, thequad FET dual differential inputs were running at very close toIDSS and theoutput devices were idling at around 125 ma. This I thought at send ittimeneeded to be under very tight control hence, the servos. ---------------------------------------------------------------------to meand I will install one for you for a small charge. Let me know. ------------------------------------------------------------------------You have a voice mail message waiting for you at iHello.com: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- saws.Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to table --------------------------------------------------------------------- ---
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Re: Thaedra / Phono2 servo control
James Bongiorno
Dear Paul,
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You've got to be kidding. Plus or minus 2 millivolts after 25 years? I must be a genius. James Paul Anthony Bigelow wrote: Dear James, |
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Re: Thaedra / Phono2 servo control
Paul Anthony Bigelow
Dear James,
The Thaedra 523B (mag) board does have a MC1458 op amp. By any chance, have you experimented with the mil-spec MC1558? I *think* only difference in specification with MC1458 is the operating temperature range. Not sure what effect, if any, it would have in the relatively warm (for a SS preamp) Thaedra. Probably just overkill since the measured servo test point voltages only varies from about +.002v to -.002v (after a 30 minute "cooking" period) -- probably the limit of accuracy of my DVM. Good enough, right? So, to answer the question, it would appear that the phono stage has the servo control. The Thaedra is servo controlled throughout! Best regards, Paul Bigelow --- In SAE_Talk@..., James Bongiorno <sstinc@e...> wrote: Dear Paul,sure whether we put the servo on early phono (mag) cards. The easiestway to tell is to look at the card and see if it has a dual (8 pin dip) op-ampIC on it. The primary reason for the servo on the MC card was because of theenormous amount of CLOSED loop gain ie: 70 dB's @ 1KHz RIAA equalized. Noone in history has ever accomplished this before or since. On the lineamp, the quad FET dual differential inputs were running at very close toIDSS and the output devices were idling at around 125 ma. This I thought at thetime needed to be under very tight control hence, the servos.to me and I will install one for you for a small charge. Let me know.--------------------------------------------------------------------- --- ---------------------------------------------------------------------You have a voice mail message waiting for you at iHello.com: ---
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Re: SAE MK 111
gurriesm
One of my goals is to put together a product timeline and hertiage tree
for SAE products. I am still collecting information and putting the family tree together and plan on sharing my information with Luther Ward's excelent SAE website. James Bongiorno wrote: Dear Terry, Best Regards, Mark Gurries ---------------------------------------------------------- Battery Charging and Power Systems Application Engineer Linear Technology,1630 McCarthy Blvd, Milpitas, CA, 95035 WRK(408) 954-8400 x3864 Email: gurriesm@... FAX(408) 428-9413 WebSite: ---------------------------------------------------------- Work & Hobby Related Website Info: Smart Battery Charging Systems: Model Railroad Club: ---------------------------------------------------------- |
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Sumo "Half-Power" amplifier
James Bongiorno
Dear Folks,
If one of you out there would like the buy of a lifetime, I suggest that you go to E-Bay and check out this amp. When I first made this unit (1981) it sold for $1500.00 and had to be the most massively constructed amp in history, second only to its big brother "The Power". This "Half-Power" is very conservatively rated at 200 watts/channel. Since I have one of my own, I don't need another one. However, with all of today's manufacturting conditions, if I had to make that unit again, it would sell in the neighborhood of $4000-5000. The current bid that I saw was up to $155.00. What a steal. Even with my rebuild it would still end up being a deal. Any takers? James Bongiorno |
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Re: Thaedra / Phono2 servo control
James Bongiorno
Dear Paul,
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Sometimes aging produces a sort of quasi-sinility. I'm not exactly sure whether we put the servo on early phono (mag) cards. The easiest way to tell is to look at the card and see if it has a dual (8 pin dip) op-amp IC on it. The primary reason for the servo on the MC card was because of the enormous amount of CLOSED loop gain ie: 70 dB's @ 1KHz RIAA equalized. No one in history has ever accomplished this before or since. On the line amp, the quad FET dual differential inputs were running at very close to IDSS and the output devices were idling at around 125 ma. This I thought at the time needed to be under very tight control hence, the servos. If you have a phono card that does not have the servo, then send it to me and I will install one for you for a small charge. Let me know. James Paul Anthony Bigelow wrote: Dear James, |
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Re: SAE MK 111
James Bongiorno
Dear Paul,
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You are correct. James Paul Anthony Bigelow wrote: Dear Terry, |
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Thaedra / Phono2 servo control
Paul Anthony Bigelow
Dear James,
Does the high gain (PHONO2) section have the servo control? In the manual, reviews, block diagrams, etc., the PHONO2 stage is not shown as having the servo control. There is an adjustment for minimum (0) voltage on the 523 phono board, however. The Line and Head amps are shown (correctly) as has having the servo control. Best regards, Paul Bigelow |
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Re: SAE MK 111
Paul Anthony Bigelow
Dear Terry,
I wasn't exactly sure about the dates for the Mk. III. My thinking was that design started before James joined SAE but since I wasn't firm on the production dates, I wasn't sure whether or not James had anything to do with that particular model (later production modifications, for example). Dear James, I guess a rule of thumb on the early SAE numbers is that a suffix indicates "Bongiorno" involvement: Mk. VIB, IIIC, IB, etc. Correct? Best regards, Paul Bigelow --- In SAE_Talk@..., James Bongiorno <sstinc@e...> wrote: Dear Terry,Director of Engineering for 1973 and 1974. The information posted about thedates is dead wrong. The IIIC,CM was made from 1973 to 1975 and REPLACED theor anythingCM. The MK 111 only says SAE on the front no model #'s or Ielse it does have meters and is 2 mono amps rated at 120W a side mightbelieve. 1970know if its a decent piece or not. These MK 111's were made from givesto 1978 it says on this Wards Web SAE info sheets I have. It ---------------------------------------------------------------------year's made and cost of the units. Thanks " Terry " --- ---------------------------------------------------------------------Buy and sell used, rare and vintage gear at the Web's best ---
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Re: MK XXIV Power Amp
James Bongiorno
Dear Terry,
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The 24 and 2400, etc. were made after I left SAE however, the irony is that the circuit is an EXACT carbon copy of my Ampzilla. Trust me. I have all the schematics. It's a pretty good amp although mechanically a bitch to work on. This mechanical design was one of Morris' nightmares. James star@... wrote: James, Did you work a SAE when the MK XXIV amp was made? It's like a |
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Re: SAE MK 111
James Bongiorno
Dear Terry,
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The Mark III was discontinued BEFORE I arrived at SAE. I was the Director of Engineering for 1973 and 1974. The information posted about the dates is dead wrong. The IIIC,CM was made from 1973 to 1975 and REPLACED the III--obviously. James star@... wrote: James, I think paul was talking about the MK 111 not the MK 111C or |
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SAE MK 111
James, I think paul was talking about the MK 111 not the MK 111C or
CM. The MK 111 only says SAE on the front no model #'s or anything else it does have meters and is 2 mono amps rated at 120W a side I believe. Also what years did you design for SAE? If I knew that then I might know if its a decent piece or not. These MK 111's were made from 1970 to 1978 it says on this Wards Web SAE info sheets I have. It gives year's made and cost of the units. Thanks " Terry " |
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Re: SAE Mk. III
James Bongiorno
Dear Paul,
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SAE was in business for about 4 years before I got there. Some of the products were amps 2,2C,3,4,4C, and the Unbelieveably awful 23 which was cancelled on the production line as my first official act upon arriving to take charge of engineering. Needless to say, Morris was not happy however, I prevailed. Enough said. The VIB tuner was finished but had lots of problems and couldn't be gotten out the door. My second act was to take charge of that project (I won't go into details) and get it out the door, which I did. The third act was to cancell production of the 2C and 4C amps as they were greatly out of date circuit wise. I then went into crash development mode and conceived the XXXIB totally monococ amp of which some 50,000 units were ultimately produced. In my opinion, this was the finest small amp (50 watts/channel) ever produced by any company. I then had to debug the Mark IB preamp that had severe click and noise problems. I didn't design the unit however, it needed substantial revising. I then laid out the XXXB preamp. Then I did what I consider to be the coup de gras, the 3C, CM amps which were followed by the 4C,CM amps. In between of course, I did lots of other things like design and build the first "Eathquake" amps for the Movie which turned out to be a no bid on Morris' part as he made the decision not to go further. Also, the amps were so strong that they kept burning out the CTEC loudspeakers. Ultimately Cerwin-Vega got the contract. James Paul Anthony Bigelow wrote: Dear James, |
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SAE Mk. III
Paul Anthony Bigelow
Dear James,
Did you have any hand in designing or tweaking the original SAE Mk. III power amplifier? What are your opinions concerning that amplifier? Am I correct in thinking that that the Mk I preamp, Mk III power amp, and Mk VI tuner were the first products from SAE? At that early period of SAE were any other products considered and subsequently not manufactured? Best regards, Paul Bigelow |
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