开云体育

I was being a little sarcastic in my supposition.
I was trying to illustrate how impossible the situation
would actually be to truly reproduce true live sound.

I do believe that when you properly engineer a recording
for stereo, and use quality equipment to reproduce the recordings,
it will sound pretty decent considering the trade-offs.
Besides, it's cheaper and less trouble that inviting the band into your
home. Not to mention the wear and tear on the furniture.

In a loosely related note:
There is a CD out called the Buena Vista Social club that was recorded
in a lo-end studio in Cuba. Pretty basic recording, the band & 2 Mics.
It almost sounds as if they are in my living room. I recommend it highly.
It's a great acoustic recording.

On Mon, 15 May 2000, James Bongiorno wrote:

Dear Jeff,
There's nothing wrong with your thinking. Your assumptions would be valid IF
IT WERE POSSIBLE TO DO WHAT YOU SAY. But the things you allude to are
absolutely IMPOSSIBLE. Again I refer you to The Audio Critic issue #24, page
9.
This will sum it all up.
James Bongiorno

jgross@... wrote:

Interesting how you say stereo is an illusion.
In thinking it through, in order to reproduce
the sound (of a live performance) exactly in a stereo environment,
wouldn't the speakers have to be placed at almost the exact same point
where the microphones were placed, and you would also need to
be in exactly the same room with exactly the same stuff in the exact same
places? Or am I not thinking this through enough?

-=Jeff=-

On Mon, 15 May 2000, James Bongiorno wrote:

Dear Paul,
Sorry for the late reply but I had to think about this one for a while.
High end audio has turned into a fiasco in the sense of "what have you
done for me lately" and the answer is: absolutely nothing. There is much
truth to what you said. There is a lot of idiotic nonsense propagated by
dilettantes such as "the brick". Remember that one? I threw up my hands
a long time ago. You can talk 'til you're blue in the face, but the wall
is still there. One of the biggest problems in our industry is "ego". No
one wants to admit that they don't know. This is akin to what
psychologists call "protection on one's belief system". Well, you can
believe all you want but it doesn't make it right.
The truth is, Audio is a big paradox. It's a phony. Stereo itself is an
awful format to begin with. You MUST know that all sounds in nature are
created in MONO, not stereo. Therefore, stereo is an ILLUSION, and a
fairly poor one at that. Until this industry gets its collective act
together and realizes that this format has nowhere to go but sideways,
there will be NO improvements. Period.
You suggest that Stereophile should get ahold of a Thaedra for
comparison. What a fiasco that would be. You can't possibly believe that
they would ever conceive of doing something like this let alone be
scientifically fair and correct as to the evalutation. Talk about the
"halo" effect--Big time. Could you imagine that aboslute slap in the
face that would be created if by some chance that my preamp would outdo
those megabuck insanities that are produced today. What an uproar in the
marketplace. The magazine would never go along with this and even on the
mere remote possibility that they would, do you honestly think that they
would do it right.
Since they are absolutely against any form of A-B testing, there would
be no way to eliminate the "haloes". Not possible. Another term for this
is right-brain, left-brain syndrome. Of course, Stereophile should not
be singled out as I'm positive that every other magazine would have the
same identical responses. This is a battle that cannot be won. Out with
the old, and in with the new.
The biggest problem of all however, is trying to teach people "HOW TO
LISTEN" properly. Since we are dealing with a phony illusion to start
with, our ear-brain link instantly compares everything with real world
situations. Not only do we need to listen correctly, but people need to
learn how to set up loudspeakers correctly. This is another disaster
area. I don't think that one person in fifty truly knows the proper way
to set up speakers. It ain't easy. I would refer interested parties to
an older issue of the Audio Critic for a list of the evils of audio.
Peter Azcel may be a bit sarcastic and cantankerous but he knows what
he's talking about in this particular instance.
I could write a novel about this whole situation however, I've got to
get back to work so that's all for now.
James Bongiorno


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Remember four years of good friends, bad clothes, explosive chemistry
experiments.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Community email addresses:
Post message: SAE_Talk@...
Subscribe: SAE_Talk-subscribe@...
Unsubscribe: SAE_Talk-unsubscribe@...
List owner: SAE_Talk-owner@...

Shortcut URL to this page:

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to table saws.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Community email addresses:
Post message: SAE_Talk@...
Subscribe: SAE_Talk-subscribe@...
Unsubscribe: SAE_Talk-unsubscribe@...
List owner: SAE_Talk-owner@...

Shortcut URL to this page:

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Community email addresses:
Post message: SAE_Talk@...
Subscribe: SAE_Talk-subscribe@...
Unsubscribe: SAE_Talk-unsubscribe@...
List owner: SAE_Talk-owner@...

Shortcut URL to this page:

-=Jeff Gross=-

450 W. Byberry Rd. #T22
Philadelphia, PA 19116
(215) 464-6077 [voice]
(520) 752-4371 [E-fax]

Dear James,

I need to think more about this topic also, but as far
as Stereophile is concerned, no, I do not seriously
believe that they would actually dare to put a Thaedra
against the "preamp of the month". There are just too
many advertisers who would raise voices about having
to compete with products that do not exist. The editorial
staff would be put in the uncomfortable position of having
to deal with irate readers that could not obtain the
product (I'm keeping my Thaedra). Many of the Stereophile
letters that are published are from whiners anyway -- imagine
the flood of mail that would be created! The publisher would
view this as a lose-lose situation. The thought of it
all though, to me, is tantalizing. It may take some act
like this suggestion to break the stranglehold.

Whew!

Best regards,

Paul Bigelow

--- In SAE_Talk@..., James Bongiorno <sstinc@e...> wrote:

Dear Paul,
Sorry for the late reply but I had to think about this one for a

while.

High end audio has turned into a fiasco in the sense of "what have

you

done for me lately" and the answer is: absolutely nothing. There is

much

truth to what you said. There is a lot of idiotic nonsense

propagated by

dilettantes such as "the brick". Remember that one? I threw up my

hands

a long time ago. You can talk 'til you're blue in the face, but the

wall

is still there. One of the biggest problems in our industry is

"ego". No

one wants to admit that they don't know. This is akin to what
psychologists call "protection on one's belief system". Well, you

can

believe all you want but it doesn't make it right.
The truth is, Audio is a big paradox. It's a phony. Stereo itself

is an

awful format to begin with. You MUST know that all sounds in nature

are

created in MONO, not stereo. Therefore, stereo is an ILLUSION, and

a

fairly poor one at that. Until this industry gets its collective

act

together and realizes that this format has nowhere to go but

sideways,

there will be NO improvements. Period.
You suggest that Stereophile should get ahold of a Thaedra for
comparison. What a fiasco that would be. You can't possibly believe

that

they would ever conceive of doing something like this let alone be
scientifically fair and correct as to the evalutation. Talk about

the

"halo" effect--Big time. Could you imagine that aboslute slap in

the

face that would be created if by some chance that my preamp would

outdo

those megabuck insanities that are produced today. What an uproar

in the

marketplace. The magazine would never go along with this and even

on the

mere remote possibility that they would, do you honestly think that

they

would do it right.
Since they are absolutely against any form of A-B testing, there

would

be no way to eliminate the "haloes". Not possible. Another term for

this

is right-brain, left-brain syndrome. Of course, Stereophile should

not

be singled out as I'm positive that every other magazine would have

the

same identical responses. This is a battle that cannot be won. Out

with

the old, and in with the new.
The biggest problem of all however, is trying to teach people "HOW

TO

LISTEN" properly. Since we are dealing with a phony illusion to

start

with, our ear-brain link instantly compares everything with real

world

situations. Not only do we need to listen correctly, but people

need to

learn how to set up loudspeakers correctly. This is another

disaster

area. I don't think that one person in fifty truly knows the proper

way

to set up speakers. It ain't easy. I would refer interested parties

to

an older issue of the Audio Critic for a list of the evils of

audio.

Peter Azcel may be a bit sarcastic and cantankerous but he knows

what

he's talking about in this particular instance.
I could write a novel about this whole situation however, I've got

to

get back to work so that's all for now.
James Bongiorno

Dear Jeff,
There's nothing wrong with your thinking. Your assumptions would be valid IF
IT WERE POSSIBLE TO DO WHAT YOU SAY. But the things you allude to are
absolutely IMPOSSIBLE. Again I refer you to The Audio Critic issue #24, page
9.
This will sum it all up.
James Bongiorno

jgross@... wrote:

Hello Jeff,

Yes, stereo is an illusion! One of the best ways
to visually describe it is to view a stereo PHOTOGRAPH.
In no way is the picture truly three-dimensional but,
when viewed -- there it is and is quite striking! With
critical viewing, though, the faults of the technique become
obvious and the "3D" objects take on a cardboard cutout
quality. Still, when PROPERLY done the illusion is uncanny
and verges on lifelike -- when misused or used for effect the
results are exaggerated (cardboard cutout) and the merit is up
to the viewer.

I believe the same is true for stereo recordings. Binaural
recordings can be extremely lifelike when listened to properly
and the soundstage almost spooky, whereas, some rock-n-roll
recordings use stereophony for effect only with NO attempt at
being "realistic". As with the "effects" photographs, the
artistic merit of "effects" stereo is up to the listener.

Best regards,

Paul Bigelow

--- In SAE_Talk@..., jgross@n... wrote:

Interesting how you say stereo is an illusion.
In thinking it through, in order to reproduce
the sound (of a live performance) exactly in a stereo environment,
wouldn't the speakers have to be placed at almost the exact same

point

where the microphones were placed, and you would also need to
be in exactly the same room with exactly the same stuff in the

exact same

places? Or am I not thinking this through enough?

-=Jeff=-

On Mon, 15 May 2000, James Bongiorno wrote:

Dear Paul,
Sorry for the late reply but I had to think about this one for a

while.

High end audio has turned into a fiasco in the sense of "what

have you

done for me lately" and the answer is: absolutely nothing. There

is much

truth to what you said. There is a lot of idiotic nonsense

propagated by

dilettantes such as "the brick". Remember that one? I threw up my

hands

a long time ago. You can talk 'til you're blue in the face, but

the wall

is still there. One of the biggest problems in our industry is

"ego". No

one wants to admit that they don't know. This is akin to what
psychologists call "protection on one's belief system". Well, you

can

believe all you want but it doesn't make it right.
The truth is, Audio is a big paradox. It's a phony. Stereo itself

is an

awful format to begin with. You MUST know that all sounds in

nature are

created in MONO, not stereo. Therefore, stereo is an ILLUSION,

and a

fairly poor one at that. Until this industry gets its collective

act

together and realizes that this format has nowhere to go but

sideways,

there will be NO improvements. Period.
You suggest that Stereophile should get ahold of a Thaedra for
comparison. What a fiasco that would be. You can't possibly

believe that

they would ever conceive of doing something like this let alone

be

scientifically fair and correct as to the evalutation. Talk about

the

"halo" effect--Big time. Could you imagine that aboslute slap in

the

face that would be created if by some chance that my preamp would

outdo

those megabuck insanities that are produced today. What an uproar

in the

marketplace. The magazine would never go along with this and even

on the

mere remote possibility that they would, do you honestly think

that they

would do it right.
Since they are absolutely against any form of A-B testing, there

would

be no way to eliminate the "haloes". Not possible. Another term

for this

is right-brain, left-brain syndrome. Of course, Stereophile

should not

be singled out as I'm positive that every other magazine would

have the

same identical responses. This is a battle that cannot be won.

Out with

the old, and in with the new.
The biggest problem of all however, is trying to teach people

"HOW TO

LISTEN" properly. Since we are dealing with a phony illusion to

start

with, our ear-brain link instantly compares everything with real

world

situations. Not only do we need to listen correctly, but people

need to

learn how to set up loudspeakers correctly. This is another

disaster

area. I don't think that one person in fifty truly knows the

proper way

to set up speakers. It ain't easy. I would refer interested

parties to

an older issue of the Audio Critic for a list of the evils of

audio.

Peter Azcel may be a bit sarcastic and cantankerous but he knows

what

he's talking about in this particular instance.
I could write a novel about this whole situation however, I've

got to

get back to work so that's all for now.
James Bongiorno

---------------------------------------------------------------------
---

Remember four years of good friends, bad clothes, explosive

chemistry

experiments.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
---

Community email addresses:
Post message: SAE_Talk@...
Subscribe: SAE_Talk-subscribe@...
Unsubscribe: SAE_Talk-unsubscribe@...
List owner: SAE_Talk-owner@...

Shortcut URL to this page:

Interesting how you say stereo is an illusion.
In thinking it through, in order to reproduce
the sound (of a live performance) exactly in a stereo environment,
wouldn't the speakers have to be placed at almost the exact same point
where the microphones were placed, and you would also need to
be in exactly the same room with exactly the same stuff in the exact same
places? Or am I not thinking this through enough?

-=Jeff=-

I Think that the group is being a little bit too critical of the purpose of
stereo and "ambient" sound reproduction. Obiously each individual sound is
monophonic. However in a group situation the sound is obviously not heard as
mono. Each individual instrument or vocal originates at a different area of
the soundstage. Also positioning of those monophonic origins and their
inherent panning cause a variety of early reflections, not only off the walls
behind and to the side, but also off every bit of solid material in the area
causing both "hard" and "soft" reflections and their inherent delays to the
listening area. Not only does our brain and hearing apparati need to process
these, but also late reflections off the rear and side walls and reflections
off the table and people around us. This is not to mention the complexity of
wave motion and necessary standing waves which complicate the situation in a
live concert, as well in our listening rooms. No reproduction can reproduce
in exactitude. However, given the higher complexity of processing of the
human mind and neural apparati, each individual has the chance to experience
the music for themselves -- and only for themselves. There is bad audio
production, however when we talk about accurate reproduction -- It is only in
our minds. I ramble and listen -- critically for pleasure-- be it mono,
stereo, or some strange computer assisted processing. All when done well
sound great to me.

Yours,

Thomas Shen MD

Dear Paul,
Sorry for the late reply but I had to think about this one for a while.
High end audio has turned into a fiasco in the sense of "what have you
done for me lately" and the answer is: absolutely nothing. There is much
truth to what you said. There is a lot of idiotic nonsense propagated by
dilettantes such as "the brick". Remember that one? I threw up my hands
a long time ago. You can talk 'til you're blue in the face, but the wall
is still there. One of the biggest problems in our industry is "ego". No
one wants to admit that they don't know. This is akin to what
psychologists call "protection on one's belief system". Well, you can
believe all you want but it doesn't make it right.
The truth is, Audio is a big paradox. It's a phony. Stereo itself is an
awful format to begin with. You MUST know that all sounds in nature are
created in MONO, not stereo. Therefore, stereo is an ILLUSION, and a
fairly poor one at that. Until this industry gets its collective act
together and realizes that this format has nowhere to go but sideways,
there will be NO improvements. Period.
You suggest that Stereophile should get ahold of a Thaedra for
comparison. What a fiasco that would be. You can't possibly believe that
they would ever conceive of doing something like this let alone be
scientifically fair and correct as to the evalutation. Talk about the
"halo" effect--Big time. Could you imagine that aboslute slap in the
face that would be created if by some chance that my preamp would outdo
those megabuck insanities that are produced today. What an uproar in the
marketplace. The magazine would never go along with this and even on the
mere remote possibility that they would, do you honestly think that they
would do it right.
Since they are absolutely against any form of A-B testing, there would
be no way to eliminate the "haloes". Not possible. Another term for this
is right-brain, left-brain syndrome. Of course, Stereophile should not
be singled out as I'm positive that every other magazine would have the
same identical responses. This is a battle that cannot be won. Out with
the old, and in with the new.
The biggest problem of all however, is trying to teach people "HOW TO
LISTEN" properly. Since we are dealing with a phony illusion to start
with, our ear-brain link instantly compares everything with real world
situations. Not only do we need to listen correctly, but people need to
learn how to set up loudspeakers correctly. This is another disaster
area. I don't think that one person in fifty truly knows the proper way
to set up speakers. It ain't easy. I would refer interested parties to
an older issue of the Audio Critic for a list of the evils of audio.
Peter Azcel may be a bit sarcastic and cantankerous but he knows what
he's talking about in this particular instance.
I could write a novel about this whole situation however, I've got to
get back to work so that's all for now.
James Bongiorno

Dear Folks,
I want to take this opportunity to apologize to all of those people who
have been generally miffed at my personality over the years of my
career. I know that at times I can appear to be arrogant, outrageous,
loud, opnionated, etc. Truthfully, I am really a nice guy but sometimes
it's hard to break through the exterior. Why am I writing this message?
This last week has been very sad for me. I lost a mentor. In the last 3
1/2 years I have lost 16 family members. I know that everyone goes
through these ordeals so enough said about that. Mentors however, are a
different story as the bonding is different. Most people in their
lifetime never get the opportunity(s) or chance to be in the company or
presence of giants or people of true brilliance. I consider myself
extremely luckly and fortunate to have had SEVEN people of true
greatness that have personally affected my life. Five of them are now
gone and two are still with us.
About two years ago my dearest mentor, Dr. Lester Field, passed away.
Most of your probably have never heard of him. He was one of the most
brilliant scientists that this would has ever produced. He was the
youngest full tenured professor in the history of this country. He was
also the Vice Pres. and chief scientist for Hughes for 20 years. His
passionate hobby was acoustics. He was the "silent" one third owner of
M&K Sound. He was my teacher, and my friend. He taught me how to think.
He was also the most humble gentleman one could know. I will miss him.
At around the same time, another very smart man and a friend of mine,
Mack Turner, passed away. His passion was also audio. His last
contribution was the design of the last switching amps for Infinity. He
was also a true gentleman and a sincere nice guy. He will be missed.
This last fall, the industry lost a true pioneer. His name was Ed
Miller. He was one of my RF teachers, one of my partners, and my
friend.(I got married in his house). Some of you may recall that he was
on of the founders of Sherwood. Prior to that, he had a company in
Chicago called Radiocrafstmen. It was there that he discovered probably
he greatest audio engineer in this world, Sidney S. Smith, who went on
to be the Director of engineering at Marantz Co. and who designed all
those fabulous pieces in the 50's and 60's.
Now to my music side. Most of you probably don't know that before making
the switch to full time audio engineering, I made my living as a
musician. I have been so fortunate to have studied with the masters, and
worked with some of the greatest stars in the business (at that time).
Several years ago, my very last music teacher, Tito Guidotti, passed
away. He was an accordionist of the highest caliber. Most of you may
cringe at the thought of the "Squeeze Box", but I can assure you that in
the right hands with the right material, the accordion can be, and is, a
magnificent instrument. Tito was so proficient (jazz-wise) that Benny
Goodman invited him to play with him, and it was well known just how
much Benny Goodman detested the accordion. Tito also played and wrote
for the Sauter-Finnegan orchestra for many years. His last stint was
spending many, many years playing with the late Jazz Violinist Joe
Venuti. I studied with Tito for almost 5 years and what a brilliant
mucical mind this man had.
This last week, was one of the saddest of my life (second only to losing
my Mom 2 1/2 years ago). One of the absolute finest musicians that this
world has EVER produced, passed away. His name was Russ Messina. He was
also an accordionist. However, that was just his instrument. His musical
genius went light years beyond this. He was an arranger and composer and
a conductor. I studied with Russ (and his father Carmello before him)
for over a decade and remained a close friend up to the end. His musical
genius can only be compared to Oscar Peterson, who in my opinionj, along
with Art Tatum, must be considered the grearest single musician of all
time. Russ was also one of the most humble men in existence as well as
being one of the nicest persons on the planet. To listen to this man
play was to be in heaven. He made one LP (mono) in 1956 which even today
would completely blow you away. It is that astounding. I plan to make
some CD copies of this recording for those select few that would like to
experience true rare musical genius.
Lastly, two of my mentors are still with us namely Sid Smith and Dick
Sequerra. I owe these two men one whole bunch for keeping me on the
right path. Through their wisdom, I hope that I have contributed to the
audio arts. So if any of you have had the luck to have been around true
giants, give them the respect that they truly deserve because folks,
there aren't that many of them.
James Bongiorno

To all Folks,
I have been asked repeatedly to name the equipment that I either use in
the lab or to listen to in my system. Trying to answer the question each
time is time consuming and laborious to say the least. Therefore, I've
decided to publish this information and I hope everyone who's interested
will print this out so I won't have to answer this again. To begin with,
here's a list of my laboratory equipment.
1. Sound Technology Distortion test set 1701B.
2. Sound Technology Low distortion oscillator 1400
3. Sound Technology 1000a FM generator
4. Sound Technology 1020A FM generator
5. Sound Technology RF to 10.7 MHz convertor
6. Tektronix 454 Oscilliscope
7. (2) Dumont 737A oscilliscopes
8. Kronhite Variable Filter (modified by me)
9. Boonton 250A RX meter
10. General Radio Digibridge
11. HP 3580A Spectrum Analyzer
12. HP 3575A Gain-Phase Meter
13. HP 427A Voltmeter
14. Hameg mainframe with 20-20Mhz oscillator and triple power supply
15. Leader Audio Sweep Generator
16. Tektronix 576 Curve Tracer
17. Staco 3500 Watt Variac
18. Custom designed dual channel tone burst generator
19. Fluke 8000A and 77 voltmeters
20. A multitude of special filters, etc.

Mylistening environment contains the following.
Amplifiers:
1. Several modified Ampzillas
2. Several modified Son of Ampzillas
3. Grandson
4. SAE 111CM(2), SAE IVDM(2), SAE XXXIB
5. Dynaco Stereo 400 (one original prototype, one production unit)
6. Sumo Power (3)
7. Sumo Gold (4)
8. Sumo Half Power
9. Sumo Nine prototype (Half power shell)
10. Sumo NINE, NINE+
11. Sumo Andromeda
12. Spread Spectrum Technologies Ampzilla 2000 prototype
13. Hadley 622C (2)
14. Marantz 15
15. Fisher 17 watt tube amps (from Fisher 1000 console)
16. Marantz Model 9 (2)
17. Marantz Model 8B
18. Marantz Model 5 (2)
19. Prototype of Hadley 601 tube amp

Preamps
1. Sumo Electra (4)
2. Gas Thaedra (4)
3. Gas Thoebe (3A)
4. Gas Thalia
5. Marantz 7C

Tuners
1. Charlie (4)
2. Marantz 10B
3. Sequerra Model 1
4. Heathkit AJ15
5. Onkyo T9090 type II
6. Sony SES 730 ES
7. Hafler
8. Pioneer F91
9. Denon
10 Yamaha TX1000
11. NEC 710
12. Pioneer TX 9500 II
13. Kenwood KT3300D
14. Harmon/Kardon Citation 23
15. Tecnics
16. Rotel

CD Players
1. Sony CDP707ES
2. Theta Miles

Turntable--MicroSeiki 1000 with 2 SME arms and one Black Widow
A multitude of cartridges

Speakers
1. Sequerra Professional Montitors
2. M&K subwoofers (2)
3. Magnaplanar Tympany IIIB

I hope this will give everyone an idea of what I have. The list is not
complete but that is all I can remember at one o'clock in the morning.
James Bongiorno

Hello,

This edition of the GAS-ETTE introduces Thoebe and Goliath.
Thoebe is similar to Thaedra in many ways -- precision
controls, servo controlled circuitry, low frequency
filters, front panel tape in jacks, headphone jacks,
and a little LED in the lower right corner! Styling
recalls Thaedra with five large knobs and the sliding
balance control above them. To add to Thoebe, if desired,
is Goliath as a pre-preamp (GASETTE'S description) with
power supplied by Thoebe. Five buttons select the gain.
Put them together and you have something like a Thaedra.
What I find interesting is that Goliath is described as
a pre-preamp, rather than a head amp, which would seem
to imply that Goliath needs Thoebe's phono stage.
(Is that correct, James?)

Prices Thoebe:
BLACK RACK
Denver/West 499.00 534.00
East of Den 509.00 544.00

Price Goliath: 149.00

James, since Thaedra had a white panel did Thoebe or
any other GAS product have a white panel? If not, what
was the reason for a white paneled Thaedra, an experiment
perhaps?

Inside is a photo and description of "Ampzilla's new look".
This new look includes the addition of standard AND
electrostatic headphone jacks. What other company ever
did THAT?

Also inside are pictures of three Son of Ampzillas in their
various configurations:
Utility: Cooling fins visible from the front
Front Panel: Cooling fins NOT visible from the front
Rack mtg: Holes for rack mounting and handles

Prices:
Utility Panel Rack
West: 399.00 414.00 424.00
East: 409.00 424.00 434.00

Next, is an announcement of an Industrialized Ampzilla:
"For those heavy-duty applications were long-term
reliability under adverse operating conditions is more
important than minimum distortion in the ultrasonic
region both Ampzilla and Son of Ampzilla ae now offered
in ruggedized versions for industrial usage." No prices
are given. James, what can you tell us about these
amps? How does someone spot one externally?

Facing that page is a glowing review from Stereopus
concerning Thaedra. This early production Thaedra "trounced"
the Audio Research SP-3a-1 and also outpeformed a tubed
Lux preamp. (Would that be a CL-32 or a CL-35, maybe?) Also
mentioned in the review is that the Thaedra could come
with a walnut case. (Has anyone seen a wood case of any
kind for a GAS piece of equipment?) The review concludes
with a humorous remark by Thomas J. Norton (of Stereophile)
"The Thaedra ads are sexy only in a rather kinky way --
have a banana?" No doubt a reference to the Ampzilla Gorilla.

Fold open the GASETTE and there is a long reprint of an
article by Walt Jung in The Audio Amateur concerning the building
of the Ampzilla kit. This is a rather interesting article
with lots of measurements, trials, tribulations, and descriptions
of what virtually every amp kit builder does -- second guess
the designer and try to improve things! This results in a reply
from the (ahem) President of the Great American Sound Co., Inc.
and Mr. Jung responds by continuing to press his own points.
Despite the exchange, Walt surmises by stating "building,
testing, and using Ampzilla ranks as one of the outstanding
experiences in my audio lifetime."

James, approximately how many Ampzilla kits were produced?

The back cover contains a whimsical story about Goliath and
specifications of both Thoebe and Goliath.

All in all, interesting reading. I hope to collect the
other GASETTES but these are probably quite rare. James,
do you remember how many GASETTES were produced? Were any
produced after the sale of the company?

Best regards,

Paul Bigelow

Dear James,

What do you think is happening to "High End" these days?

In my opinion it's starting to get out of hand. Well-heeled
audiophiles are spending hundreds and thousands of dollars
on high priced interconnects (and I mean $500/meter and up),
"treatments", mats to place equipment on to absorb vibrations,
wooden disks, etc. And this "equipment" is springing up like
weeds.

Is the audio industry running out of ideas?

If, for example, the current crop of audio (ahem) designers
REALLY have no idea as to how to advance sound reproduction
or they realize the development (and I mean REAL research and
development) would be prohibitively time consuming and
expensive, wouldn't the logical course be to end up where
we are now?

That course would be:
1) Repackage circuits in new clothing
2) Sell mysterious tweaks
3) Build up such a mystique around it all, nobody is
really sure of what they are hearing anymore
As a result, #1 can happen again and the cycle begins anew.
That way, development costs are kept to a minimum and
the "develoment" can be confined to areas that accountants
and manufacturers can get a "grip" on such as: faceplate
thickness, gold plated resistor leads, hospital grade
electrical plugs, the same Russian 12AX7 being "branded"
27 different ways, etc. And since features are now
a bad thing (isn't this clever?) manufacturers can save
money by leaving out phono sections, tape switching,
tone controls, etc.

Take, for instance, Stereophile. Components are rated
Class "A", for the very best. Eventually, the component
quietly slips off the list as either "unavailable" or
"not auditioned for too long a time to be sure of current
rating". If people are forgetting how components sound
and not revisiting them what keeps the manufacturers from
selling the same thing over and over?

Perhaps Stereophile could get a Thaedra, listen to it,
test it, and then determine if audio has really gone
anywhere in the last 25 years. Would you think they
would like the idea? Maybe I should propose it to
them.

In my listening, I have a wide range of equipment:
McIntosh MA6100, Luxkit (Monarchy Engineering) A1033
tube integrated amplifier, GAS Thaedra, Fisher 400 receiver,
Dynaco PAS-3x, ST-70, FM-3, various tuners, CD players, etc.
Every so often, I go on a "reality check" and swap out all
my pieces of gear and listen to them with "fresh ears". Then
the questions begin anew:

1) Am I hearing new faults or strengths?
2) Are what I thought were faults in the past not faults but
errors in listening?
3) Was I duped by something I thought was a strength?

Do you do the same?

Whew! Off the soapbox.

Best regards,

Paul Bigelow

Paul Anthony Bigelow wrote:

Hello,

What are the differnces between these preamplifiers?
Features? Cosmetic? Circuitry? The M is supposed to have
meters. Are these meters to measure output from the power
amp or are these VU meters?

Is there a web site that pictures the early SAE equipment?

Best regards,

Paul Bigelow

I have sent you some jpg files that are scans of the specs of the IB and
IM preamp. Hopefully this will answer your question.


Best Regards,

Mark Gurries

----------------------------------------------------------
Battery Charging and Power Systems Application Engineer
Linear Technology,1630 McCarthy Blvd, Milpitas, CA, 95035
WRK(408) 954-8400 x3864 Email: gurriesm@...
FAX(408) 428-9413 WebSite:
----------------------------------------------------------
Work & Hobby Related Website Info:
Smart Battery Charging Systems:
Model Railroad Club:
----------------------------------------------------------

Hello,

What are the differnces between these preamplifiers?
Features? Cosmetic? Circuitry? The M is supposed to have
meters. Are these meters to measure output from the power
amp or are these VU meters?

Is there a web site that pictures the early SAE equipment?

Best regards,

Paul Bigelow

Dear Terry,

I have easy access to an owner's / users manual and would
be happy to make a copy and mail it to you. Alternatively,
would you rather have jpeg scans emailed to you?

Or, is the request for service information?

Dear James,

Did the Thaedra operators manual go through any changes or
revisions (Thaedra II, for example), or is there only one
manual? My operator's manual makes no reference to Thaedra II
so I hope it is correct for my unit.

Best regards,

Paul Bigelow
--- In SAE_Talk@..., James Bongiorno <sstinc@e...> wrote:

Dear Terry,
Consider yourself one of the few lucky people to acquire my

Thaedra. Sorry

if I sound somewhat arrogant but, I'll put that unit up against

anything

made in this universe. Due to the age of the unit (25 years) and

the fact

that GAS has been out of business for 20 years, it is unlikely that

you will

find an operator's manual. I know that I have one somewhere but

since I just

moved, I'm having a little bit of difficulty in finding paperwork

at the

moment. When I do find the manual, I will be happy to make a copy

for you.

In the meantime, be patient. For the most part, the unit's features

are very

self-explanatory as far as function. If you need to know something

specific,

just ask me.
On another note, I STRONGLY urge you to consider at some point, to

have your

Thaedra completely upgraded and modernized. It is well worth the

effort and

the cost. Even though this is not cheap, I have to change 156 parts

in the

unit, and it takes a tremendous amount of hours. The $1375.00 fee

would be

the best dollars spent in your audio lifetime. I don't know what

you paid

for the unit and it's none of my business however, please consider

the

upgrade and start saving. You won't be disappointed.
James Bongiorno

Terry Cariveau wrote:

James, I got real lucky and got my hands on a Thaedra, with the

green

light which I understand is good. Amp is in very-very nice

condition.

Have it hooked up to a Bryston 4-B right now and sounds great, I
waiting for my SAE MK-24 to get here and check the sound

difference

if there is any. Anyway I'm looking for a instruction manual for

it

(Thaedra) if you or anyone else has a copy of one please let me
know. Thanks "Terry "

---------------------------------------------------------------------
---

Get paid for the stuff you know!
Get answers for the stuff you don?t. And get $10 to spend on

the
site!

---------------------------------------------------------------------
---

Community email addresses:
Post message: SAE_Talk@...
Subscribe: SAE_Talk-subscribe@...
Unsubscribe: SAE_Talk-unsubscribe@...
List owner: SAE_Talk-owner@...

Shortcut URL to this page:

Dear Terry,
Consider yourself one of the few lucky people to acquire my Thaedra. Sorry
if I sound somewhat arrogant but, I'll put that unit up against anything
made in this universe. Due to the age of the unit (25 years) and the fact
that GAS has been out of business for 20 years, it is unlikely that you will
find an operator's manual. I know that I have one somewhere but since I just
moved, I'm having a little bit of difficulty in finding paperwork at the
moment. When I do find the manual, I will be happy to make a copy for you.
In the meantime, be patient. For the most part, the unit's features are very
self-explanatory as far as function. If you need to know something specific,
just ask me.
On another note, I STRONGLY urge you to consider at some point, to have your
Thaedra completely upgraded and modernized. It is well worth the effort and
the cost. Even though this is not cheap, I have to change 156 parts in the
unit, and it takes a tremendous amount of hours. The $1375.00 fee would be
the best dollars spent in your audio lifetime. I don't know what you paid
for the unit and it's none of my business however, please consider the
upgrade and start saving. You won't be disappointed.
James Bongiorno

Terry Cariveau wrote:

James, I got real lucky and got my hands on a Thaedra, with the green
light which I understand is good. Amp is in very-very nice condition.
Have it hooked up to a Bryston 4-B right now and sounds great, I
waiting for my SAE MK-24 to get here and check the sound difference
if there is any. Anyway I'm looking for a instruction manual for it
(Thaedra) if you or anyone else has a copy of one please let me
know. Thanks "Terry "

Folks,
I just quit bidding on the SAE Mark VIB tuner on E-bay. I stopped at
$200.00. It seems that there are some idiots out there that have no clue
as to the true realistic value of a product. There is no way in hell
that this tuner is worth more than that. Period. So, if there is someone
else out there that would like to sell me one for $200.00 I'll buy it.
This is strictly for my archives as I already have some 25 different
tuners. Mark is also correct in that one should never, NEVER, pay more
than $1.00 per watt for an amp. That is a 200 watt stereo amp should
never cost more than $200.00.
I,ve been setting up my lab and I should be up and running at the end of
the weekend. Any of you that are wanting to send in units for upgrade
should contact me now.
James Bongiorno

Dear Paul,
The Mark VIII is EXACTLY the same tuner as the Mark VIB but without the
scope.
James

Paul Anthony Bigelow wrote:

Hello,

As the subject line indicates the SUMO "Half-Power"
sold for $332.95 on ebay. The price increased quickly
in the final minutes, as it usually does...

Earlier on ebay there was a nice looking SAE Mk VIII tuner.
It has some resemblance to the Mk VI tuner. How does it
compare? Is it, basically, a restyled MK VI without
the scope or an entirely new tuner?

Best regards,

Paul Bigelow

James! Excellent Idea. Don't be modest.
You are like Mr. Hifi.

On Wed, 10 May 2000, Jack Parker wrote:

About 2 years ago I shorted the speaker terminals of my SAE 2200. I
had bought this amp in 1978 And was depressed over its loss. Then I
spotted an add you had placed and, to make a long story short, you
did a fine job of restoring my 2200 to daily service. Recently, I
purchased an SAE 2400L which I'll be sending to you for refurbishment
which brings me to the purpose of this Email. Now that I know who you
are, I have often wished that you had personalized the repair you did
on the SAE 2200 by signing the case as having been repaired by you.
Besides the bragging rights that would bring, it should also increase
the value of the equipment. A personalized metalic sticker stating
something like,"Refurbished by James Bongiorno on (space for date)"
would be perfect. Your name on this sticker should be the duplicate
of your signature. Please consider this for your future
refurbishments. I hope that the members of this group will agree with
me as to the desireability of your personal signature on their
restored equipment.
I'll be contacting you soon about the 2400L. Thanks for all you have
done and the years of enjoyment I've received from the SAE brand of
equipment.
Best regards,
Jack Parker


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wanted: A few thousand Intelligent Guinea Pigs
Who really love music. New music site invites you to
hear & rate songs, and get paid for it! JABOOM.com

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Community email addresses:
Post message: SAE_Talk@...
Subscribe: SAE_Talk-subscribe@...
Unsubscribe: SAE_Talk-unsubscribe@...
List owner: SAE_Talk-owner@...

Shortcut URL to this page:

-=Jeff Gross=-

450 W. Byberry Rd. #T22
Philadelphia, PA 19116
(215) 464-6077 [voice]
(520) 752-4371 [E-fax]