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Late '60's early '70's "High End"
Paul Anthony Bigelow
Hello,
What constitiuted the U.S. "high end" in the late tube, early transistor days? From what I can remember, it would be SAE, Threshold, GAS, McIntosh, and Audio Research. Who else was present at the time (and considered "high end")? Best regards, Paul Bigelow |
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Re: SAE Mk. VI tuning bearing
James Bongiorno
Dear Paul,
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If memory serves me, I think only a 1000 Mark VIB's were made. Actually you would have to check with Morris on this but I think I'm right. Just as Sid and Dick at Marantz spent a huge amount of time on the "dial" integrity of the 10B, so did Ed Miller and Morris spent an equal amount of time. You must remember however, that synthesized tuning had not yet been developed back in those days ergo the need for smooth analog tuning. There are two schools of thought here. One is that analog tuning is preferable but, this is only useable IF one also has a means of verifying the center tuning position and/or has an indicator device such as an eye tube, or a scope for viewing multipath interference if is present. On the other hand, with synthesized tuning AND HOPEFULLY PROPER SELECTIVITY IN THE DESIGN, these things become totally redundant and unneccessary. James Bongiorno Paul Anthony Bigelow wrote: Hello, |
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SAE Mk. VI tuning bearing
Paul Anthony Bigelow
Hello,
What a joy it is to have tuning as smooth as the Mk. VI. It has ZERO play. NONE. No vertical movement, no horizontal movement, none in or out. ZILCH. It is the only tuner I have ever encountered (including communications receivers) that has this quality. I shudder to think what a tuner today with these machined parts would cost. The serial number is 60497. Would that be #497? What was the approximate number of the SAE Mk VI made? Best regards, Paul Bigelow |
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continuing SAE
James Bongiorno
Dear Paul,
As I said before, yes there are two filter blocks in the IF of the Mark VIB. One is a four pole and the other is a six pole. The reason for having one in close proximity to the front end is obvious. Actually, in all truthfullness, the Front end is probably the weakest element in the tuner. It was a fully enclosed assembly from a European manufacturer and was selected BEFORE I arrived at SAE. Its performance is OK however, I would have much prefered to use an ALPS front end. That's water over the dam. I've tried till I'm blue in the face to tell people that once an electrolytic has formed, it looks like a batery yet without the battery wear-down. Barring any faults that would be machanical and/or manufacturing, an electrolytic should last for decades. As long as it isn't stressed with overvoltage and/or wild temperature deviations, there really are no wear out mechanisms per se. It pays to be very conservative with the original specs. As far as the scope tube is concerned, it was a very common tube back in those days because unlike the tube used in the Marantz 10B which was round, this one was rectangular. If you find a source, let me know. James Bongiorno |
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Sae Mk. VI Filtech / Intensity control
Paul Anthony Bigelow
Hello,
There are actually two Filtech units inside the Mk. VI. One unit appears to be located on (I assume) the "IF board". Another, different, unit is attached to the "RF assembly". This "RF assembly" is interesting. It is fully encased, and bolted to the main U-shaped board. The tuning "wheel" attached to the tuning capacitor is a machined wheel with a grove for the drive belt. This attention to detail is quite remarkable. Usually this "wheel" is either plastic or stamped from thin metal. The stamped ones seem to, invariably, get warped or bent with time from the pull of the tuning cord. The construction inside still amazes. This kind of build quality just isn't seen inside consumer equipment. All of the boards are nicely layed out. Nicely finished, anodized aluminum is used throughout, soldering work is excellent. The resistors are 5%. Really nice. Once the chassis had been dusted off, it looked like new. Does anyone else in the group have experience with the Mk VI, MK I, or MK III they would like to share? James, I guess I'll leave the intensity control alone. It does seem to work OK. I just hope the repair person used the exact, specified value. Best regards, Paul Bigelow |
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Amperex ZM-1000 / Amperex D7-200GH
Paul Anthony Bigelow
Dear James,
If these tubes are available, I'll find them. Since these tubes are *probably* not SAE specific, there must have been other applications. If it can be determined what else the D7-200GH was used in it might lead to a supply. Maybe a compact military oscilloscope, for example. This tuner has aged quite well. All power supply electolytics have survived with very little leakage. Only an electrolytic capacitor on the relay board has drifted slightly out of spec. Since the parts are dated 1971, this is excellent performance. Best regards, Paul Bigelow |
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Re: SAE Mk VI scope tube
James Bongiorno
Dear Paul,
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SAE did go all out with the VIB to the best of their ability. The tuner really was a beautiful piece. As I've stated on these pages before, I myself am looking for one as many years ago, I did a very stupid thing when I got rid of mine. Regarding the adjustment of the spot killer, It should be TOTALLY off, meaning when there is no signal, there should NOT even be a feint risidual spot. This is very important to prolong the life of the tube. Actually, the two adjustments interact that is the inensity and the spot killer. James Bongiorno Paul Anthony Bigelow wrote: Dear James, |
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Re: SAE Mk VI Tuner - impressions and questions
James Bongiorno
Dear Paul,
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There is an old saying:if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Regarding the intensity control, if it works and is functioning, leave it alone. This is one of those "direct" interaction controls where you visually observe its action. Therefore, if the control is doing what it is supposed to do, then it must be acceptable. As far as the scope tube goes it is a D7-200GH which was made by Amperex I believe. Maybe it is still availabel but that is something to be determined. Amperex was located in The northeast I believe. If I remember correctly, somewhere in Rhode Island. James Bongiorno Paul Anthony Bigelow wrote: Dear James, |
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SAE Mk VI scope tube
Paul Anthony Bigelow
Dear James,
You are correct about the "spot killer". While not readily apparent with the transparent smoke cover in place, there is a faint residual dot visible with no signal present with the cover removed. Consequently, there is the faintest of burn marks on the scope tube, however it isn't bad -- just a slight discoloration really and quite small (but could, of course, get worse with time). With the smoke cover in place it is barely perceptible -- I have to really look for it. Thank you for the suggestion about ATI. Gale will be contacted concerning the knob and the poteniometer. Upon first inspection, I thought the scope adjustment knobs were black plastic with a set screw. WRONG -- even those knobs are machined and black anodized. Really impressive. Best regards, Paul Bigelow |
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Re: SAE Mk VI Tuner - impressions and questions
Paul Anthony Bigelow
Dear James,
Thank you for the reply. I would not undertake an RF alignment on this tuner. What I would like to do would be to determine if the the Intensity control "fix" was done properly and attempt to get the correct parts, if necessary. The replacement potentiometer is physically larger than the others and a resistor is between it and the focus control and connected to the .01 1kv capacitor to ground. The resistor does match the construction of the other resistors in the unit, so maybe it is supposed to be there. The "spot killer" does appear to be functioning in, at least, a rudimentary fashion. The trace does go away when the signal or audio is not present. It appears that there is some dust or other debris behind the front panel (quite dusty) so when the front panel is removed for cleaning, the tube face can cleaned and examined closer to see if any burn marks are truly present. The area in question is not exactly at the center so there may be hope. Was the scope tube made especially for SAE or is it an off-the-shelf item? Best regards, Paul Bigelow --- In SAE_Talk@..., James Bongiorno <sstinc@e...> wrote: Dear Paul,hesitate in sending out tuner information due to the fact that withoutEXTENSIVE knowledge, it is so easy to completely screw up the unit especiallyif one does not possess a complete RF laboratory. I have an extensive RFlab, probably the best in the country save for Dick Sequerra and RichardATI at 323278-0001 and ask for GALE. If there is any hope of finding thecorrect knob, she will know. In order for the scope tube to last a longtime it is mandatory that the "spot killer" be adjusted properly. It soundslike it is not as you indicate some loss in the center of the tube. Please beaware that I do not believe that tube is available any more.--------------------------------------------------------------------- --- ---------------------------------------------------------------------Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers. ---
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Re: SAE Mk VI Tuner - impressions and questions
James Bongiorno
Dear Paul,
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I have all of the schematics for the Mark VI tuner however, I hesitate in sending out tuner information due to the fact that without EXTENSIVE knowledge, it is so easy to completely screw up the unit especially if one does not possess a complete RF laboratory. I have an extensive RF lab, probably the best in the country save for Dick Sequerra and Richard Modaferi. As far as the knob goes, contact SAE's successor company, ATI at 323278-0001 and ask for GALE. If there is any hope of finding the correct knob, she will know. In order for the scope tube to last a long time it is mandatory that the "spot killer" be adjusted properly. It sounds like it is not as you indicate some loss in the center of the tube. Please be aware that I do not believe that tube is available any more. James Bongiorno Paul Anthony Bigelow wrote: Hello, |
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Re: Sumo Charlie Tuner -- Model 700?
James Bongiorno
Dear Paul,
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First of all, I can't see how anyone in their right mind would remove the gorgeous rack hadles that I designed for the unit. Most assuredly, this is one of the late units. There is no "tuning knob" as tuning is accomplished by an up/down button on the side of the display window. The tuner is synthesized in 100kHz steps. There is really no need for analog tuning for FM applications because it is absolutely mandatory that the station be crystal controlled and "right on the money". And believe me, the FCC does check all of the stations to make sure. If you had terrific interference, analog tuning might be of some help but then if you needed it, your selectivity would be pretty lousy to begin with. James Bongiorno Paul Anthony Bigelow wrote: Dear James, |
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Re: Sumo Charlie Tuner -- Model 700?
Paul Anthony Bigelow
Dear James,
Thank you for the response! When it rains, it pours. I state this because I have located a Charlie tuner. It does not have the handles so I assume it is a later one. The serial no is 700801, if that is any indicator. Are the rack handles removable? It is my understanding that Charlie's tuning is synthesized. Are there any provisions for analog fine tuning or is that not necessary with the Charlie? There is a tuning knob on the Charlie isn't there? What are the tuning steps? Are tuning steps smooth without annoying thumps as the synthesizer locks? My apologies for all the questions, it just seems that there is virtually no information on the internet. Solid state Hi-Fi history is quite scarce. Best regards, Paul Bigelow --- In SAE_Talk@..., James Bongiorno <sstinc@e...> wrote: Dear Paul,tubes but rather LED display readouts. The faceplate was available in eitherblack (to match the Andromeda amp) or in Gold (to match the Model Nine amp).Be forewarned however, as there are about 1500 Charlies out there(without the handles) that have NEVER been properly aligned. These were broughtin after I sold the company and since the RF equipment was all my personalgear, I took it with me when I left. They subsequently never replaced thistest gear and just sent the Charlies out as is. This is what happens when yousell a company.--------------------------------------------------------------------- --- theGet paid for the stuff you know! site! --------------------------------------------------------------------- ---
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SAE Mk VI Tuner - impressions and questions
Paul Anthony Bigelow
Hello,
IMPRESSIONS I just received my Mk VI tuner. Am I impressed! Maybe my other tuners are garbage (probably) but this tuner sounds great! It has many of the sonic qualities of my Fisher 400 receiver tuner -- dynamic bass and terrific midrange without the 400's negatives -- distortion and rolled off highs. It easily bests my other solid state tuners: Sansui TU717, Yamaha T-7, T-2, Marantz 2110. Stereo imaging is wide. RF-wise the tuner is quite sensitive but does have a slight problem with mixing products in my strong signal area. Selectivity is good, not great (but good enough). I can separate a STRONG station at 100.7 from a weak one at 101.1. If anyone on the list is in Austin, that would be KASE in Austin and KONO in San Antonio. My Yamaha T-2 may have better performance in the mixing product area. The build quality is quite impressive. All aluminum cabinet and interior, neat, carefully bundled wiring. All machined knobs. It looks to be rather easy to service -- at least from an access point of view. The tuning feel is remarkably smooth with no MECHANICAL play although there is a bit of backlash from the tuning belt arrangement. The tuning belt seems to have survived the years well and is pliant with no signs of deterioration, hardening, or cracking. Electrical condition-wise the tuner has had work done to it. The Brightness potentiometer was replaced and a new knob substituted. It was tastefully done but needs to be corrected. The nixies are nice and bright. The scope appears to only have just a hint of slight burn at the center. Not a hole, really, but *maybe* a slight dimming of the trace. Everything appears to work. The digital readout is accurate. The muting works properly, the output level switches work. The automatic switching from tuning display to audio display by touching the tuning knob works. Cosmetics-wise the panel has only the slightest scuff on a small section of the top edge -- 1/4", maybe. Hardly noticable. The lettering is perfect on both the front and back panel. QUESTIONS: Does anyone have service information that could be supplied/sold to me so that I can determine if the brightness control repair was done correctly? A schematic would do. Would anyone have a spare (yeah, right) knob for the brightness control they would like to sell? To make a correct looking knob, however, would not appear to be too difficult. Would anyone have an owner's manual for scanning or copying or, maybe, to sell? I would be happy to answer any questions about this tuner. Best regards, Paul Bigelow |
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Re: Sumo Charlie Tuner -- Model 700?
James Bongiorno
Dear Paul,
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The "Charlie" was indeed a model 700. And it did not use nixie tubes but rather LED display readouts. The faceplate was available in either black (to match the Andromeda amp) or in Gold (to match the Model Nine amp). Be forewarned however, as there are about 1500 Charlies out there (without the handles) that have NEVER been properly aligned. These were brought in after I sold the company and since the RF equipment was all my personal gear, I took it with me when I left. They subsequently never replaced this test gear and just sent the Charlies out as is. This is what happens when you sell a company. James Bongiorno Paul Anthony Bigelow wrote: Hello James, |
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Re: NAD?
James Bongiorno
Dear Kenny,
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Please be aware that NAD gear is made in TAIWAN and for the most part, might be considered the high end of the "low end". That is, you get what you pay for. When gear is priced dirt cheap, something's got to give. I'm not trying to knock NAD but if you really want audiophile quality, then I wouldn't recommend this stuff. After all, it is designed by Asians, and when in history have the Orientals ever made anything that sounded that good? Not yet anyway. Maybe Accuphase, if you can afford it. Also, once in a while, Sony engineers manage to come up with something clever and the same for Kenwood. But this is rare and you have to know, engineering wise, what was going on. This obviously, is beyond that capability of the layman. If I were recommending something alongs these lines I would tell you to consider Rotel much more than NAD. Even though Rotel gear for the most part is all made in TAIWAN also, their entire engineering is located in Tokyo, and I have been to there place and have had intimate relationships with their engineers over the years. They are a pretty good dedicated crew. James Bongiorno Kenny Burkhart wrote: I'm sure you guys have heard of NAD stereo equipment? Well, what |
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Re: Wiring layout and quality
James Bongiorno
Dear Paul,
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SAE wiring layouts were absolutely firs class, at least when I ran engineering. I think that for the most part over the years, the construction quality of SAE was First rate. James Bongiorno Paul Anthony Bigelow wrote: Hello, |
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Re: NAD?
NAD is probably one of the best companies
making equipment that is way above par. On Fri, 28 Apr 2000, Kenny Burkhart wrote: I'm sure you guys have heard of NAD stereo equipment? Well, what-=Jeff Gross=- 450 W. Byberry Rd. #T22 Philadelphia, PA 19116 (215) 464-6077 [voice] (520) 752-4371 [E-fax] |
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