Keyboard Shortcuts
ctrl + shift + ? :
Show all keyboard shortcuts
ctrl + g :
Navigate to a group
ctrl + shift + f :
Find
ctrl + / :
Quick actions
esc to dismiss
Likes
- SAE
- Messages
Search
|
NAD?
Kenny Burkhart
I'm sure you guys have heard of NAD stereo equipment? Well, what
kind of equipment is it, exactly? Pretty good stuff? I'm not looking at purchasing thousands of dollars worth of equipment, however, I want the best I can get with what I have in my wallet. I am still considering SAE ("02" Series), but I am also checking out some of the newer equipment on the market today. Can anybody shed some light on NAD for me? Thanks, Kenny PS: I thank everyone for all of the previous help. |
|
Wiring layout and quality
Paul Anthony Bigelow
Hello,
Much of the consumer equipment contains a mare's nest of thin wires. Alternatively, military electonics and certain audio manufacturers are very careful about wiring with very neat bundles. Where, generally, does SAE fall in with wiring layout? Best regards, Paul Bigelow |
|
Re: SAE 02 Series
Kenny Burkhart
Thanks guys. I think I'm going to go ahead and purchase an SAE "02"
series (not all at once, of course). I found a rather nice looking T102 on E-bay ( ViewItem&item=318675860 ) and I'm thinking awfully serious about it. If anyone has any SAE "02" series equipment that they might consider selling, please let me know. Thanks, Kenny Burkhart --- In SAE_Talk@..., James Bongiorno <sstinc@e...> wrote: Dear Kenny,for some of them and I have tested some of them. Pretty decent for themoney. The tuner (T101) is probably the best thing that Ed Miller ever did.think the "02"it LOOKS cheesy). I am curious however, to the quality of toSeries (Computer Direct-Line). ofthe"SAE TWO" equipment and you are referring to SAE's "02" series thistheir "Computer Direct Line" equipment. I could be wrong.wrote: andsubject. I am now aware to stear clear of the SAE II series, I'mIthatthank you for that. inwrong) that this equipment was actually already designed and ofcorrect?production BEFORE the company was actually sold. Is thatSo if that IS correct, then that means this would be the last equipmenttheGOOD SAE home audio equipment? itingood condition (not worked on, still in original shape) that LOLisgood stuff? wrote: DirectorDear Kenny, IIofEngineeringproductsat SAE in the "Golden Years" I think I know more about thethananyone. First of all, DO NOT consider buying any of the SAE builtgear. Notbecause it isn't decent, but this gear was designed and AtbyanybothpartsMarubene in Japan, but mostly by Inkel in Korea. Service andfor thisgear are NON-existant. Also, if you are contemplating buyingthataudio gearoff the Web, the only thing that I can say is Caveat Emptor,completelyis buyerbeware. A good portion of the stuff offered is eitherblown up,or in sad need of repair. What you need to do is to look forprestigiousgear that was made in the mid 70's through the early 80's. howleaststillthesepieces would have been made here and for the most part, canbepurchase,serviced. Be prepared to pay to have any gear that youawayservicedand/or repaired. went totowasmakethings sound right. lotresearch. Having never heard of SAE...I have learned a muchaboutthecompany in the last few weeks. However, I have FAR too before Ilefttolearn! Heck...most of the SAE equipment was put out pastwasseries.even born! shouldpostson this group, I have come to question whether or not I equipment....butconsideredpurchase the 02 series equipment. itIthinkI like the look and (what I've heard) of SAE better. compareactuallyin production before the company was actually sold?) you,tothePioneer, Onkyo, Kenwood, etc... of today? As I will tell (as IIamnot a great deal experienced with audio equipment, and forsaidearlier) I am merely interested in a good stereo system moderetlymyhomethat will put out some good, clear music and go to goodlouduser).levels (nothing like a Dance Hall...simply for the homeWillthe 02 series stand up to normal use everyday (I am VERY madeonmyequipment)? Iinlate80s and early-mid 90s) for my home stereo system, however up?amunsureof both. I am really unsure as to how they would stand I am endthinking about purchasing it. wasupbitwithsupportSAE equipment, I will help you guys anyway I can as far asand info on the equipment (I have managed to learn quite aoverthe past week or so; I started out the kind of guy that readyhappywith his Fisher mini-shelf system) and I am definately market,tomakethe step into high-end equipment. However in todays remotelyIhavefound it hard to find high-end equipment for an even ------------------------------------------------------------------appreciated.reasonable cost. on------Get paid for the stuff you know! --the---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ letsGet your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that ------you see and manage all of your finances all in one place.
|
|
Re: SAE 02 Series
James Bongiorno
Dear Kenny,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Actually, the "02" series were pretty decent. I have the schematics for some of them and I have tested some of them. Pretty decent for the money. The tuner (T101) is probably the best thing that Ed Miller ever did. James Bongiorno Kenny Burkhart wrote: Jeff: |
|
Re: SAE 02 Series
James Bongiorno
My memory is now refreshed and you are exactly correct. Thanks for bringing
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
me out of my early sinility. James Bongiorno jefhodge@... wrote: Kenny- |
|
Re: SAE 02 Series
James Bongiorno
Dear Kenny,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I guess I wasn't clear and I left out the following. There are (2) lines that were supplied by SAE. The units you refer to I believe were the last of the units that were made here. Since I was long gong from SAE at that point I might be wrong about this. There was an "02" series which is NOT to be confused with the "II" series that were made overseas. Anyway, all of this gear was still supplied by SAE BEFORE the company was sold and eventually out of business. After SAE was sold, there were NO new products made or supplied as of that point. Again, if you really want to find out exactly what products there were, you can call the successor company, ATI at 323 278 0001 and maybe get the straight answer. Again, be forewarned that none of the gear (and this applies to virtually any company that had gear made offshore) has available parts and/or service. I would still stick with reputable American companies. As a matter of fact, since you obviously have a very small budget, you might check out the 180 Watt/channel amp that is offered by ATI at a mere $800.00 retail. In today's market, it must be considered an absolute bargain considering its very fine performance. James Bongiorno Kenny Burkhart wrote: Please forgive me here if I may sound a little "ignorant" of this |
|
Re: SAE 02 Series
Kenny Burkhart
Jeff:
This is correct. Forgive me for not making that clear in the original post. I should have said "Computer Direct-Line." I am sorry. I am aware that the SAE TWO equipment is garbage (I personally think it LOOKS cheesy). I am curious however, to the quality of the "02" Series (Computer Direct-Line). Thanks, and sorry for any confusion. Kenny --- In SAE_Talk@..., jefhodge@b... wrote: Kenny-the "SAE TWO" equipment and you are referring to SAE's "02" series ofwrote: IPlease forgive me here if I may sound a little "ignorant" of this thatthank you for that. wasall of the 102 (P102, C102, D102, A102, etc.) series equipment correct?also made here in the states? I was thinking (correct me if I'm inSo if that IS correct, then that means this would be the last oftheGOOD SAE home audio equipment? isgood condition (not worked on, still in original shape) that it ofgood stuff? byEngineeringproductsat SAE in the "Golden Years" I think I know more about thethananyone. First of all, DO NOT consider buying any of the SAE IIgear. Notbecause it isn't decent, but this gear was designed and built anybothpartsMarubene in Japan, but mostly by Inkel in Korea. Service andfor thisgear are NON-existant. Also, if you are contemplating buying thataudio gearoff the Web, the only thing that I can say is Caveat Emptor, completelyis buyerbeware. A good portion of the stuff offered is either stillblown up,leastor in sad need of repair. What you need to do is to look forprestigiousgear that was made in the mid 70's through the early 80's. Atthesepieces would have been made here and for the most part, can bepurchase,serviced. Be prepared to pay to have any gear that you awayservicedand/or repaired. aren'tfrom theagainstcheap stuff--you get what you pay for. Also, I would adviseany ofthe older or even current Japanese gear, NOT because they wasmade welltoas they are, but rather, the Orientals have yet not learned howmakethings sound right. series.made hereaboutand not in the orient. Andconsideredpostsafter reading up on the SAE history, and reading through paston this group, I have come to question whether or not I should Isimply purhcasing brand new Onkyo or Pioneer equipment....but tothinkactuallyI like the look and (what I've heard) of SAE better. mytheIPioneer, Onkyo, Kenwood, etc... of today? As I will tell you,amsaidnot a great deal experienced with audio equipment, and (as Iearlier) I am merely interested in a good stereo system for user).homeloudthat will put out some good, clear music and go to moderetlylevels (nothing like a Dance Hall...simply for the home inWillonthe 02 series stand up to normal use everyday (I am VERY goodmyequipment)? amlate80s and early-mid 90s) for my home stereo system, however I bitunsureupof both. I am really unsure as to how they would stand up? tooverhappythe past week or so; I started out the kind of guy that waswith his Fisher mini-shelf system) and I am definately ready Imakethe step into high-end equipment. However in todays market, have------------------------------------------------------------------appreciated.found it hard to find high-end equipment for an even remotely |
|
Re: SAE 02 Series
Kenny-
I sense some confusion here. I think maybe James is referring to the "SAE TWO" equipment and you are referring to SAE's "02" series of their "Computer Direct Line" equipment. I could be wrong. Jeff Hodge --- In SAE_Talk@..., "Kenny Burkhart" <klburkhart@k...> wrote: Please forgive me here if I may sound a little "ignorant" of thisthe GOOD SAE home audio equipment?products thanpartsanyone. First of all, DO NOT consider buying any of the SAE IIgear. Notbecause it isn't decent, but this gear was designed and built bybothMarubene in Japan, but mostly by Inkel in Korea. Service and for thisleastgear are NON-existant. Also, if you are contemplating buying anyaudio gearoff the Web, the only thing that I can say is Caveat Emptor, thatis buyerbeware. A good portion of the stuff offered is either completelyblown up,or in sad need of repair. What you need to do is to look forprestigiousgear that was made in the mid 70's through the early 80's. At thesebepieces would have been made here and for the most part, can still againstserviced. Be prepared to pay to have any gear that you purchase,servicedand/or repaired.from the any oftothe older or even current Japanese gear, NOT because they aren'tmade wellas they are, but rather, the Orientals have yet not learned how makeaboutthings sound right.made here theleftcompany in the last few weeks. However, I have FAR too much towaslearn! Heck...most of the SAE equipment was put out before I Andeven born! Ipostsafter reading up on the SAE history, and reading through pastthinkon this group, I have come to question whether or not I should amsaidnot a great deal experienced with audio equipment, and (as I loudhomeearlier) I am merely interested in a good stereo system for mythat will put out some good, clear music and go to moderetly onWilllevels (nothing like a Dance Hall...simply for the home user).the 02 series stand up to normal use everyday (I am VERY good myuplateequipment)? withsupportSAE equipment, I will help you guys anyway I can as far as happyoverand info on the equipment (I have managed to learn quite a bitthe past week or so; I started out the kind of guy that was ------------------------------------------------------------------makewith his Fisher mini-shelf system) and I am definately ready tohavethe step into high-end equipment. However in todays market, Iappreciated.found it hard to find high-end equipment for an even remotely ------------------------------------------------------------------------theGet paid for the stuff you know! ------ |
|
Re: SAE 02 Series
Kenny Burkhart
Please forgive me here if I may sound a little "ignorant" of this
subject. I am now aware to stear clear of the SAE II series, and I thank you for that. You said the T102 was made here in the states. Does that mean that all of the 102 (P102, C102, D102, A102, etc.) series equipment was also made here in the states? I was thinking (correct me if I'm wrong) that this equipment was actually already designed and in production BEFORE the company was actually sold. Is that correct? So if that IS correct, then that means this would be the last of the GOOD SAE home audio equipment? So you are saying, if I CAN find the SAE series "102" equipment in good condition (not worked on, still in original shape) that it is good stuff? Thanks, Kenny Burkhart PS: I really appreciate the help. SAE people are so nice! LOL --- In SAE_Talk@..., James Bongiorno <sstinc@e...> wrote: Dear Kenny,Engineering at SAE in the "Golden Years" I think I know more about the productsthan anyone. First of all, DO NOT consider buying any of the SAE IIgear. Not because it isn't decent, but this gear was designed and built byboth Marubene in Japan, but mostly by Inkel in Korea. Service and partsfor this gear are NON-existant. Also, if you are contemplating buying anyaudio gear off the Web, the only thing that I can say is Caveat Emptor, thatis buyer beware. A good portion of the stuff offered is either completelyblown up, or in sad need of repair. What you need to do is to look forprestigious gear that was made in the mid 70's through the early 80's. At leastthese pieces would have been made here and for the most part, can still beserviced and/or repaired.from the cheap stuff--you get what you pay for. Also, I would advise againstany of the older or even current Japanese gear, NOT because they aren'tmade well as they are, but rather, the Orientals have yet not learned how tomake things sound right.made here and not in the orient.the tocompany in the last few weeks. However, I have FAR too much left postslearn! Heck...most of the SAE equipment was put out before I was thinkon this group, I have come to question whether or not I should actuallyI like the look and (what I've heard) of SAE better. thein production before the company was actually sold?) compare to amPioneer, Onkyo, Kenwood, etc... of today? As I will tell you, I homenot a great deal experienced with audio equipment, and (as I said Willthat will put out some good, clear music and go to moderetly loud mythe 02 series stand up to normal use everyday (I am VERY good on lateequipment)? unsure80s and early-mid 90s) for my home stereo system, however I am withof both. I am really unsure as to how they would stand up? overSAE equipment, I will help you guys anyway I can as far as support makethe past week or so; I started out the kind of guy that was happy havethe step into high-end equipment. However in todays market, I appreciated.found it hard to find high-end equipment for an even remotely ------Thanks. theGet paid for the stuff you know! site! ------
|
|
Re: SAE 02 Series
James Bongiorno
Dear Kenny,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I will try to answer your questions. Since I was the Director of Engineering at SAE in the "Golden Years" I think I know more about the products than anyone. First of all, DO NOT consider buying any of the SAE II gear. Not because it isn't decent, but this gear was designed and built by both Marubene in Japan, but mostly by Inkel in Korea. Service and parts for this gear are NON-existant. Also, if you are contemplating buying any audio gear off the Web, the only thing that I can say is Caveat Emptor, that is buyer beware. A good portion of the stuff offered is either completely blown up, or in sad need of repair. What you need to do is to look for prestigious gear that was made in the mid 70's through the early 80's. At least these pieces would have been made here and for the most part, can still be serviced. Be prepared to pay to have any gear that you purchase, serviced and/or repaired. May I recommend the following: SAE, GAS, SUMO. Stay away from the cheap stuff--you get what you pay for. Also, I would advise against any of the older or even current Japanese gear, NOT because they aren't made well as they are, but rather, the Orientals have yet not learned how to make things sound right. Finally, the T-102 is a great buy at that price and it was made here and not in the orient. James Bongiorno Kenny Burkhart wrote: In deciding to put together an older stereo system, I went to |
|
SAE 02 Series
Kenny Burkhart
In deciding to put together an older stereo system, I went to
research. Having never heard of SAE...I have learned a lot about the company in the last few weeks. However, I have FAR too much left to learn! Heck...most of the SAE equipment was put out before I was even born! After running across Wardsweb.org, I found the SAE 02 series. And after reading up on the SAE history, and reading through past posts on this group, I have come to question whether or not I should purchase the 02 series equipment. I'm not looking into thousands of dollars in audio equipment...although I want some good stuff. I have considered simply purhcasing brand new Onkyo or Pioneer equipment....but I think I like the look and (what I've heard) of SAE better. My question is this. How does the SAE 02 series (wasn't it actually in production before the company was actually sold?) compare to the Pioneer, Onkyo, Kenwood, etc... of today? As I will tell you, I am not a great deal experienced with audio equipment, and (as I said earlier) I am merely interested in a good stereo system for my home that will put out some good, clear music and go to moderetly loud levels (nothing like a Dance Hall...simply for the home user). Will the 02 series stand up to normal use everyday (I am VERY good on my equipment)? I have also considered some Carver equipment (equipment made in late 80s and early-mid 90s) for my home stereo system, however I am unsure of both. I am really unsure as to how they would stand up? I have found an SAE T102 Tuner for $45 plus shipping, and I am thinking about purchasing it. I need some help and assistance here, and even if I DON'T end up with SAE equipment, I will help you guys anyway I can as far as support and info on the equipment (I have managed to learn quite a bit over the past week or so; I started out the kind of guy that was happy with his Fisher mini-shelf system) and I am definately ready to make the step into high-end equipment. However in todays market, I have found it hard to find high-end equipment for an even remotely reasonable cost. Any help and info on the SAE 02 series would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Kenny Burkhart |
|
Re: ATI grapevine
James Bongiorno
Dear Luther,
I hate to rain on anyone's parade however, these kinds of protection circuits are very passe'. The reason being is that they are still either current sensing or volt-amp sensing. What this means is that SOME loads, especially very heavy reative loads, might activate the protection. It is probably ok in the sense that these amps will not in anyway drive these super difficult loads to start with no matter what Morris or Outlaw people say. This I could prove any day of the week. In the final analysis there are only two "right" ways to protect the amp. The first is to make it strong enough in the first place so you don't need protection circuits. A bit expensive, but effective. This way there are absolutely no limiters to get in the way of the signal. The second is to use an input-output real time window discriminator like I used in the big Sumo's 20 years ago. These amps had enormous power capability and needed this kind of protection mechanism. Again, no limiters of any kind to get in the way. These are the right ways to do it. James Bongiorno. [Original Message] --- James Bongiorno --- sstinc@... --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. |
|
Re: Thaedra -- very quiet
James Bongiorno
Dear Paul,
I'm glad that you are happy with the Thaedra. Would you believe that my upgrade reduces the noise a little bit more. And also, the THD is reduced by a factor of 5 or more. The upgraded line amp produces FULL output, that is greater than 10 volts RMS, at 100kHz dead flat and at less than .1% thd, all 2nd harmonic, with "rounded" overload characteristics. I'd like to see anyone achieve this. I really am proud of this unit. James Bongiorno [Original Message] --- James Bongiorno --- sstinc@... --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. |
|
Thaedra -- very quiet
Paul Anthony Bigelow
Hello,
Another great quality about the Thaedra is that it is exceptionally quiet. Despite the noise figures given for vintage transistor equipment there is almost always a certain level of hiss that is present when using headphones -- regardless of the volume setting. It is quite possible that the designers then did not envision the sensitivity of today's modern headphone. Anyway, it is quite annoying. The Thaedra has no constant background hiss or hiss of any kind, at any volume setting through the line inputs. Only at the upper reaches of the volume control does noise from the phono or head amp become audible. The Stackpole switches are dead quiet. No pops or thumps. And this is after 23 years! Splendid performance! Best regards, Paul Bigelow |
|
ATI grapevine
A little info I thought some of you would think of interest. I was
talking with Morris Kessler today about an amp I saw last March in the design stage at ATI. It is a multi channel amp for home theater. No biggie at first glance but as we were going over the schematics a nice trick showed up. It has an optically isolated output section. You can dead short the amp and it just goes into protection. Remove the short and it starts playing again without any adverse affect to the amp. Another twist here is you can not buy it at ATI. It is being made for Outlaw Audio (). ATI is using the design in their new 6 zone 12 channel amp. The amp, also, shares the transformer with the other ATI amps that is wound in-house at ATI. Pretty cool if you've never seen it done before. You can see a picture of it and the multi-channel layout on Outlaw Audio's web site. |
|
Re: SAE 4000
James Bongiorno
Dear Bob,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
All of the controls in the SAE gear were made by various Japanese manufacturers such as Noble. However, I'm positive that they have long ceased making these parts. For the last several years, virtually all switching and level and balance controls have been done electronically (not necessarily a good thing). You might contact Gale at ATI (the successor co. to SAE) because they have a huge warehouse of parts. You might get lucky. The number is 323 278 0001. If you have no luck, you can try to get a "control" from some other manufacturer (of audio equipment) that might sell you one. Make sure that you get the right Value. James Bongiorno desertfox wrote: Dear James Bongiorno, |
|
SAE 4000
desertfox
Dear James Bongiorno,
There seems to be a lot of talk about the GAS Thaedra these days, and I must admit that I am not familiar with it. All though I did see a GAS Pre-Amp and Amplifier at one of the local Hi End Audio Outlets some time ago. I am running a Marantz 3800 with my system, which sounds a lot like what everyone is talking about. Now for my main Question. You seem to be the lending authority on SAE equipment. I have a used SAE 4000 Electronic crossover, which someone replaced the Balance control with a volume control. Do you know who manufactured the balance controls for SAE with the center de-tent? Also while we are on the subject of controls. Do you know who manufactured the push button volume and VU Meter controls on the SAE model 2400, 2500 & 2600 amplifiers? Do you think these controls are still available from the manufacturer? I would like to replace the balance in the SAE 4000 with the correct one. Regards, Bob Ludka |
|
Re: Filtech questions
James Bongiorno
Dear Paul,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Firstly, the filters are potted, sorry about that, and then the can is soldered. They wanted to make life difficult for others to find out what they were doing. Yes we had to weed out the bad ones and that's all I'll say. No they weren't bad filters but they were not of supreme performance either. There were two filters: one was a six pole and the other was a four pole. Barely acceptable means just that in that the selectivity was barely acceptable, certainly not in the league of the Marantz 10B. But then nothing at that time was in the league of the 10B except the forthcoming Sequerra tuner which came out (finally) in 1975. Ed Miller was a supherb RF engineer but was under the gun to get something to market for a reasonable price. Everyone know what happened to Marantz because of the cost overruns on the 10B. So to be sure, the Mark VIB was a good tuner however, for another $1000 retail, it could have been much better. I don't think Morris would have slept very well if that were the case as sales might have been meager. So in the final analysis, the VIB represented the best that could be done for that money at the time. Be awares that the Sequerra tuner which came out about 2 years later started out at $3300 and quickly escalated to $12,500. Need I say more? James Bongiorno Paul Anthony Bigelow wrote: Dear James, |
|
Re: SAE and DAK
James Bongiorno
Dear Paul,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
DAK is one in the same. Caveat Emptor. James Paul Anthony Bigelow wrote: Hello, |
|
Re: SAE Mk 1 Preamplifier -- opinions wanted!
James Bongiorno
Dear Paul,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
The SAE Mark 1B has virtually the exact same circuits as the Marantz 7T. Unfortunately, in my opinion, this was the only backward step that Sid Smith made while at Marantz. It can be improved, but not much. I have talked extensively with him about this. It would be much better to completely replace the circuits in the unit with modern circuitry. The SAE was a virtual carbon copy, but Morris, not being an engineer, didn't know how to do any real designing, hence, the copy. Even the copy, which I hated, had flaws which I had to clean up. James Bongiorno Paul Anthony Bigelow wrote: Hello, |
to navigate to use esc to dismiss