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Re: Is the timing belt an engine-out procedure?


 

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Toaph

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  1. Engine removal ¨C Brace yourself for this one, but THEY ARE IN IT FOR THE MONEY. Maybe they need to watch my video to see how easy it is to do in place. If you are replacing all the coolant hoses, that job is much simpler without that lump in the way. Replace all the fuel hoses at the same time.
  2. Leaking carbs ¨C Yes, that is probably a good statement. Unless it is leaking from the banjo bolt where the fuel line attach to the carbs, ¡°the carbs¡± is a good statement for where they are leaking.

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Since you want them to check the alternator, it is removed during the timing belt installation, so it¡¯s a good time to check the output. If you need a new one, they are available rewound to provide up to 110 amps in the same case, whereas the original was considerable less than that.

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I see that you are trying to get the most out of the engine. I don¡¯t think that you have smog checks in NY, and if you don¡¯t, you might consider replaced the Stomberg carbs with Dellortos. It¡¯s going to be pricey, because you have to replace the intake manifold as well. My guess would be $1200-$1500 for intake manifold and carbs. Factory rating for the Domestic (UK) cars with Dellortos is 160 hp (also running a different timing), Federal with Stombergs is only 140 HP, which use a retarded timing. If you REALLY want to get fancy, the steel fuel line is different between the Domestic and Federal cars. On the UK cars, the fuel line comes up to the carbs near the front of the engine. In the Federal cars with Stombergs, it comes up from the rear, so when most people in the US put Dellortos on their cars, they still have the fuel lines entering from the rear of the engine. Not a huge difference, and only good for 10 HP or so (okay, calm down. I¡¯m kidding).

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Bill

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From: [email protected] <> On Behalf Of Toaph via groups.io
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2022 9:53 AM
To: [email protected]; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [S1S2euroS3LotusEspritOwners] Is the timing belt an engine-out procedure?

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Quick update.? I just got off the phone with their front office guy.? He admitted that it's possible to replace the timing belt without removing the engine, but they prefer to do it the other way.? He had also mentioned in our previous conversation that the carbs were "leaking."? I asked where the leak was coming from, and he said, "The carbs."? My confidence has dropped below zero.? I'm not going to even let these guys check the timing.? Game over.? They're off my list for good.

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-- Toaph

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On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 09:29:01 AM EDT, Toaph via groups.io <toaph@...> wrote:

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Thanks to everyone who replied, especially Bill with the link to the video, and Tim for all the details.? I'm not sure how email attachments work on groups.io, but I tried attaching
my statement of work and their estimate for those who are interested.? In the past I've gone to this shop for some miscellaneous, relatively minor things on a couple of my cars, and they did a fine job.? If anything my complaint was they weren't thorough enough.? I don't know if they've gone through some changes, or if this was just an isolated bad experience.? I'm going to have them tune the carbs and set the timing to the best of their ability and leave it at that.? I will NOT be signing up for the $10K package.

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-- Toaph

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On Saturday, July 23, 2022 at 01:32:15 PM EDT, Tim Engel <tsengel@...> wrote:

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The engine DOES NOT have to come out in order to replace the timing belt and tensioner bearing.? ?In my Esprit S2, I could replace both the belt & bearing in 3.0 hours with the engine IN the Esprit.? ?My record in a front-engined Eclat is 45 minutes for the timing belt only.? ?In general, replacing the tensioner bearing adds about 15 minutes to the task.

According to Lotus' Flat Rate Labor Manual, the time to accomplish the following tasks is...

ADJUST Timing Belt Tension (including setting cam timing):
0.8 hr = Esprit S1,? ?or? ?1.1 hr = Esprit S2

REPLACE Timing Belt (including setting cam timing & tensioning):
2.8 hr = Esprit S1 & S2

REPLACE (plug & play) Timing Belt Tensioner (eccentric).
2.5 hr = Esprit S1 & S2
REPLACE (plug & play) Timing Belt Tensioner (semi-automatic).
3.0 hr = Esprit S1 & S2
ADD the following time to both of the above IF the tensioner bearing is replaced
0.3 hr?= Esprit S1 & S2

CHECK Valve Clearances:
1.1 hr = Esprit S1 & S2

ADJUST (ie, shim) Valve Clearances:
4.0 hr = Esprit S1 & S2

Remove & Replace Engine & Gearbox Ass'y:
9.0 hr = Esprit S1 & S2
My experience is that it takes about
3.5 hours to put the engine on the floor, and...
5.5 hours to install the engine.
9.0 billable hoiurs, and they have not yet accomplished one single thing that was on your work order.
My best advice... do NOT do business with that shop.? ?They're scamming you/ padding the bill.? ?Removing the engine first is only easier/ faster 'IF' you ignore the amount of time and effort required to remove & replace the engine.? ?In general, you (or the mechanic) CAN NOT save enough time doing the above tasks on the engine out of the car to offset the time and effort (grief, pain, etc) required to remove & replace the engine !!

What is the name and address of the shop that insists upon removing the engine first.? ?Every Lotus owner living near you should be aware.

Regards,
Tim Engel


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