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Why "Scale"? it's all my fault


 

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Although it's been some time, I also mentioned it was time to put the toys aside into a secondary purpose--collecting.? Our hobby is too vast to ignore any segment entirely but since it's claimed that some of our track-age works with (nearly) everything so be it!? But we simply still don't have a one stop shop!? At one time many train-sets all used Atlas #100 track.? Perhaps Atlas only made all kinds of track for everybody!

I had hoped that the hi-rail folks would blend with the scale guys to sing songs of unity!? I also thought that perhaps Lionel would have seen the light too, with their newer diesels but since they only dipped their toe in the Koolaide, nobody really knows anything, but this type of thing happens in all sorts of industries--mostly singing verses in chapter 7 or 11...,? VHS vs Beta was a great example.? Then poor old Kodak was our 'yellow father figure' in my business till Fuji upset our entire business. ? Kodak didn't know how to compete when everything changed!? A Kodak rep stopped and left me with many hundreds in film,as the green Fuji disease started to take over. ? Now you have all sorts of products using old names made under contract god knows where!

At one time, I though all this was my fault when I was shooting SHS's ads.? I generally used scale settings but we also used AF items for some settings--coal loaders, accessory cars, etc. ? So that indicated that SHS & AM + others could blend with AF.? Apparently that blending didn't happen as we always hear about or see "Somebodies AF layout" while seeing AM PA diesels pulling Budd cars. SHS switchers switching a yard filled with SHS freight cars laid on SHS flex track!?

Now I think we all understand that "The Powers" had to show claws and large flanges (bills to pay!), but it didn't prepare for our days of reckoning.

Bob Werre


Boy, Dick. ?You certainly know how to thwack the hornets’ nest!
Ben Trousdale?



 

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< I had hoped that the hi-rail folks would blend with the scale guys to sing songs of unity!? >

Perhaps it should be the other way around?? After all, there is something like an 80% to 20% ratio of Hi-rail to scale.? Why are the scale people so put off by code 138 rail?

One problem I’ve noticed in visiting code 100 layouts is the track laying has to be more exacting.? If you’re not an experienced track layer, chances are you will be plagued by derailing.? To a newbie, I would think that pretty discouraging.

Tom Stoltz

in Maine


 

Just for amusement, a story:? at the last York TCA train show, I bought an AF Big Boy.? It was one of these where it was too good, and I had to buy it.? The owner said that it would simply not go around his curves.? Now there is little possibility of me ever trying some attempt at making this "scale".??
So I must use 148 and have it run all "S".? I do not want to fiddle with an idea of 138.? I can get my hands on 148 rail or take it from other track.? I can also take O gauge 148 TO's and use them to make what I need.? But for all of us, there is never the time to do everything.? Does anyone have any movable frog TO's that they want to sell?


 

The problem of course isn’t rail size - it is the turnouts not being able to run both scale and Flyer/Hi-rail. That’s a key difference between our issues and the old HO NEM vs NMRA issues. As probably everyone here knows.

I still suspect that we’d have more momentum if we had some manufacturer adding a new model (not a new paint scheme on existing models) every six months or even yearly. Not to be it seems.

Pieter Roos




On Monday, March 31, 2025, 4:20 PM, John Hutnick via groups.io <johnhutnick@...> wrote:

Just for amusement, a story:? at the last York TCA train show, I bought an AF Big Boy.? It was one of these where it was too good, and I had to buy it.? The owner said that it would simply not go around his curves.? Now there is little possibility of me ever trying some attempt at making this "scale".??
So I must use 148 and have it run all "S".? I do not want to fiddle with an idea of 138.? I can get my hands on 148 rail or take it from other track.? I can also take O gauge 148 TO's and use them to make what I need.? But for all of us, there is never the time to do everything.? Does anyone have any movable frog TO's that they want to sell?


 

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Peter noted: "I still suspect that we'd have more momentum if we had some manufacturer adding a new model (not a new paint scheme on existing models) every six months or even yearly. Not to be it seems."

I've been told it was my letter that got Lionel into thinking about taking the copula off the AF Bay Window caboose and then they'd have a "new" caboose with very little tooling costs, but my suggestions about putting S trucks under their 027 -3/16ths double door boxcar would hve been so simple and viloa, a "new" car. But the main thing I think that would have been simple for them to do is to take the Northern Chassis and put an SP Daylight shell and tender on it--yes, the drivers aren't exactly right and the main rod and valve action should be altered too, but the driver difference at scale is pretty tiny, but enough that scale folks would complain--however, with minor tooling costs a new locomotive that could be sold legitimately 5 ways; Daylight, Freedom Train, BNSF excursion train, WWII all black, and WP too.? Based on sales of such a locomotive in other scales causes me to believe they would "fly off the shelves" if the retail price was not astronomical.?

Apparently this is so logical? that someone is doing the shells with 3-D printing (which I have on order!!). It's going to take me some time to put it together and paint it properly (and i want to do lighted number boards and a mars light would be cool. . . .) so I will finally have my S Daylight.?

But no, the folks at "Big L" don't want to hear about it, nor risk any money on it.?

OK, back to the previous programming.

S'

David D.


 

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Tom-=-feel; I need to reply here. True S guys aren't put off, as our guys--have lived with results for a long time! Those who were put off were the ones who were put off with S for the lack correct size rail perhaps, or the lack of easy to use trackage, or having 5 sizes of couplers too.., You don't get to count the guys who didn't vote with their hobby dollars! A guy once stopped to visit with us with the question?? who are the unknown S scalers?? How many rebels are waiting to attach--how many ants are in the walls?? Those of us, unless we're rebuilding aren't affected too much. ? Of course nobody would really knows unless you had an employee (often a cutie in shorts and big smile) at a show and actually quiz them on these things! ( I once was involved i a high stakes infringement case--big dollars here.? BTW we won! Wish I would have reaped a dollar or 2 for the positive results!).

Sometimes we don't know who might even have an opinion on their favorite size/brand --if it says Peco--good; if it says Kato--probably good too; Tyco--be aware! If you run on a smooth layout you'll tend to follow along with those results, but often the brand does the speaking rather than the size!?
My layout is a mix of sizes from #70-#83-#100 with the bulk being the very vintage Miller #126 with some newer SHS? flex (whatever size it is/was!? So it's mainly a non-issue while they all look attractive.? Heavier rail on the main while sidings have lighter rail as it should be!? My exceptions are when it's hidden so I might choose the heavy stuff as it was free at one time!?

So Tom, here's making my 20% plus thousands of lost possibilities count!

Bob Werre
Phototraxx

< I had hoped that the hi-rail folks would blend with the scale guys to sing songs of unity!? >

Perhaps it should be the other way around?? After all, there is something like an 80% to 20% ratio of Hi-rail to scale.? Why are the scale people so put off by code 138 rail?

One problem I’ve noticed in visiting code 100 layouts is the track laying has to be more exacting.? If you’re not an experienced track layer, chances are you will be plagued by derailing.? To a newbie, I would think that pretty discouraging.

Tom Stoltz

in Maine



 

I'm a scale track guy.? Perhaps because I came from HO and not American Flyer.? I don't care if you use Code 800 for your rail and string for couplers.? I'm just tried of being bashed by Some AF and Hi-railers for liking scale.? It's gone on since this group started.? I really, really don't care what you do with your hobby money.? If you like what you're doing, why do you care I'm not interested in hi-rail and AF couplers?? Do what you like.? I've made a point to ask Hi-railers to join our local Blue Ridge Group. Not one has stepped forward.
I hope high railers and AF types stick with us scalers because we are a small group and need each other.? But, speaking for myself, again, I really really don't think badly of you for spending your money how you want.? I just ask you treat me the same.? Or you can believe I'm? a snob.? Your choice.
?
Sorry to rant, but my intentions are good.
George Courtney


 

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I preface this by saying that I am primarily a collector of AF in all gauges as well as a collector of information on model railroad history.? I don't really think that Hi Railers or AF collectors resent or disrespect those who are creating fine scale railroads in S scale, but we don't appreciate being likened to Albatrosses and being told that our equipment isn't "S Scale,"? but only "S Gauge."? Those aren't alternates, but are two different things.? American Flyer is S scale as it has a prototype and it is reproduced in 1/64 scale.?? Most Flyer equipment is within a few inches of the length and width of the prototypes.? Granted, it may not be fine scale, just like Tyco HO isn't fine scale HO.? I have great respect for the fine scale work done in S gauge and enjoy reading about it and seeing it.?? There is also some very interesting history in the scale oriented manufacturers of the past.?? I do think the NASG is doing a good job of serving the interests of AF, Hi Rail and fine scale modelers, which is not easy.? Why is it that only people in S gauge tend to divide the gauge into camps.?? I may be wrong, but I don't think people in HO regard the Tyco people as albatrosses.? They just ignore them.?? The problem in S is that Hi Rail and AF are 80% of the market, so we get the most attention from manufacturers.? I think the solution is for manufacturers to make highly detailed models with interchangeable wheels and provision for body mounted scale couplers.?? No one operating AF or Hi rail is going to object to detail far greater than was prevalent in 60-70 year old AF.? Hopefully for all, the current manufacturers will follow that approach.? Unfortunately, with so much manufacturing based in China, I don't think that the future of any model products is great and prices will most likely be going up.?? The current uncertainties of international trade make this a bad time for new ventures.

Dale Smith

On 4/1/2025 3:58 PM, George Courtney via groups.io wrote:

I'm a scale track guy.? Perhaps because I came from HO and not American Flyer.? I don't care if you use Code 800 for your rail and string for couplers.? I'm just tried of being bashed by Some AF and Hi-railers for liking scale.? It's gone on since this group started.? I really, really don't care what you do with your hobby money.? If you like what you're doing, why do you care I'm not interested in hi-rail and AF couplers?? Do what you like.? I've made a point to ask Hi-railers to join our local Blue Ridge Group. Not one has stepped forward.
I hope high railers and AF types stick with us scalers because we are a small group and need each other.? But, speaking for myself, again, I really really don't think badly of you for spending your money how you want.? I just ask you treat me the same.? Or you can believe I'm? a snob.? Your choice.
?
Sorry to rant, but my intentions are good.
George Courtney

Virus-free.