|
Over the past 20-30 years that I've "been work'in
on the railroad--all the live long day" and basically having a
blast in creating the monster.?? I'm starting to have regrets
over 2 things other than; too small of a room and no
water/bathroom (both beyond my control financially)!?
My isle became a bit cramped due to not planning
for a couple inches for view-block/background+wood trim and my
slightly increased waistline!? The other thing is my
floor-door!? That has become increasingly an issue.? I've
attached a couple of photos.? I wanted to avoid an outside
entrance/stairway, I also wanted to have a clear view of most of
the layout so I wanted to avoid a walled entrance.? So I
surprised the city permitting people, the member who helped with
the room plans not to mention most of my visitors too.? I
laminated two sheets of plywood to make it strong enough to
support at least a couple of guys standing on it, but still open
wide enough to accept a 4x8 sheet of material as it was used for
many photo sets for the NASG, SHS and several other clients.?
To help in raising the door, I used part of a
steel plate cut and welded to make a 60+- lbs counterweight that
I put in the wall cavity. It was never a body building exercise
but over the years it's become more so!?
So I'm looking for a helping hand as I age--any
suggestions?? I've got more photos.? Off hand I've thought about
garage door openers, automotive rear hatch struts and ... (out
of ideas here!)?
Bob Werre
PhotoTraxx
|
Pulleys and a cable attached to the door so you can pull from base of stairs to open the door easily with your existing counter weights. I had to come up with a door up to my railroad room as well though my door doesn¡¯t open up into the room but the loft area
in front of the room I designed a very lightweight door similar to how you would make a module with 1x4 and foam and used automotive gas pistons from a car hood system to easily open the door and allow it to stay open. While that works for me now I can see
when I get older it could be harder to open even for me but that is when I¡¯ll install a pulley to aid in opening it with little to no effort. Just a thought.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jun 25, 2024, at 12:09?PM, Bob Werre <bob@...> wrote:
?
Over the past 20-30 years that I've "been work'in on the railroad--all the live long day" and basically having a blast in creating the monster.?? I'm starting to have regrets over 2 things other than; too small of a room and no water/bathroom
(both beyond my control financially)!?
My isle became a bit cramped due to not planning for a couple inches for view-block/background+wood trim and my slightly increased waistline!? The other thing is my floor-door!? That has become increasingly an issue.? I've attached a couple
of photos.? I wanted to avoid an outside entrance/stairway, I also wanted to have a clear view of most of the layout so I wanted to avoid a walled entrance.? So I surprised the city permitting people, the member who helped with the room plans not to mention
most of my visitors too.? I laminated two sheets of plywood to make it strong enough to support at least a couple of guys standing on it, but still open wide enough to accept a 4x8 sheet of material as it was used for many photo sets for the NASG, SHS and
several other clients.?
To help in raising the door, I used part of a steel plate cut and welded to make a 60+- lbs counterweight that I put in the wall cavity. It was never a body building exercise but over the years it's become more so!?
So I'm looking for a helping hand as I age--any suggestions?? I've got more photos.? Off hand I've thought about garage door openers, automotive rear hatch struts and ... (out of ideas here!)?
Bob Werre
PhotoTraxx
<DSCN9941.JPG>
<DSCN9945.JPG>
<floordoor.3.jpg>
|
Bob,
Consider a small electric winch with a detectable cable to and from the lift panel.
You could drill a hole through the lift up panel and install a small steel plate with a thread hole. Then insert a threaded eye bolt and then attach the cable to the eye bolt and activate the winch.
Mechanical assistance, minimal alterations to your existing structures, no tripping hazard, minimal space impediment, reasonable cost expenditure with the benefit that when the hatch is open it would now be secured in an open position.
Mike (Ohio)
Over the past 20-30 years that I've "been work'in
on the railroad--all the live long day" and basically having a
blast in creating the monster.?? I'm starting to have regrets
over 2 things other than; too small of a room and no
water/bathroom (both beyond my control financially)!?
My isle became a bit cramped due to not planning
for a couple inches for view-block/background+wood trim and my
slightly increased waistline!? The other thing is my
floor-door!? That has become increasingly an issue.? I've
attached a couple of photos.? I wanted to avoid an outside
entrance/stairway, I also wanted to have a clear view of most of
the layout so I wanted to avoid a walled entrance.? So I
surprised the city permitting people, the member who helped with
the room plans not to mention most of my visitors too.? I
laminated two sheets of plywood to make it strong enough to
support at least a couple of guys standing on it, but still open
wide enough to accept a 4x8 sheet of material as it was used for
many photo sets for the NASG, SHS and several other clients.?
To help in raising the door, I used part of a
steel plate cut and welded to make a 60+- lbs counterweight that
I put in the wall cavity. It was never a body building exercise
but over the years it's become more so!?
So I'm looking for a helping hand as I age--any
suggestions?? I've got more photos.? Off hand I've thought about
garage door openers, automotive rear hatch struts and ... (out
of ideas here!)?
Bob Werre
PhotoTraxx
|
Perhaps contact a garage door repair place.? To help lift, they might be able to rig up one of the of those spring arrangements like are used on sectional rollup doors.? But the bulk of the long parallel spring would encroach on the door opening some.? At a minimum, they might be able to give you an idea or two.? It might even be the sort of thing they have seen before.? But even if not, this sort of thing is sort of in their "wheelhouse." I
Another thought.? I don't know how the weight in the wall cavity is arranged.? But it might be possible to affix lever arms to the door that would protrude into the space below and affix heavy counterweights.? It doesn't look like there is much room between the hinge point and the wall so those lever arms (which would probably have to be bent creatively to get around what looks like a beam along the hinge edge of the door) would probably have to be pretty short and the weights heavy.? And with the door open, they arms and weight would be straight down into the room area below.? With the door closed, up near the ceiling of the room below.
If you could move the hinging of the door to the other side, maybe there is more room but there seems to be a wall there, too.? But perhaps it could have a couple of openings made in it to clear levers and weights.? Or maybe the wall with the REA sign can have openings made.? I imagine the wall on at least one side of the stairs has space behind it..
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer?
On Tuesday, June 25, 2024 at 09:09:49 AM PDT, Bob Werre <bob@...> wrote:
Over the past 20-30 years that I've "been work'in
on the railroad--all the live long day" and basically having a
blast in creating the monster.?? I'm starting to have regrets
over 2 things other than; too small of a room and no
water/bathroom (both beyond my control financially)!?
My isle became a bit cramped due to not planning
for a couple inches for view-block/background+wood trim and my
slightly increased waistline!? The other thing is my
floor-door!? That has become increasingly an issue.? I've
attached a couple of photos.? I wanted to avoid an outside
entrance/stairway, I also wanted to have a clear view of most of
the layout so I wanted to avoid a walled entrance.? So I
surprised the city permitting people, the member who helped with
the room plans not to mention most of my visitors too.? I
laminated two sheets of plywood to make it strong enough to
support at least a couple of guys standing on it, but still open
wide enough to accept a 4x8 sheet of material as it was used for
many photo sets for the NASG, SHS and several other clients.?
To help in raising the door, I used part of a
steel plate cut and welded to make a 60+- lbs counterweight that
I put in the wall cavity. It was never a body building exercise
but over the years it's become more so!?
So I'm looking for a helping hand as I age--any
suggestions?? I've got more photos.? Off hand I've thought about
garage door openers, automotive rear hatch struts and ... (out
of ideas here!)?
Bob Werre
PhotoTraxx
|
My first suggestion would be to simply add more weight to the counterweight so that the door actually has just barely over the amount of counter weight needed to OPEN it.? Going this route, you would actually have to exert a small amount of downward PULL to close it instead of upward PUSH to open it. Essentially you would be reversing your current situation.
John D
Over the past 20-30 years that I've "been work'in
on the railroad--all the live long day" and basically having a
blast in creating the monster.?? I'm starting to have regrets
over 2 things other than; too small of a room and no
water/bathroom (both beyond my control financially)!?
My isle became a bit cramped due to not planning
for a couple inches for view-block/background+wood trim and my
slightly increased waistline!? The other thing is my
floor-door!? That has become increasingly an issue.? I've
attached a couple of photos.? I wanted to avoid an outside
entrance/stairway, I also wanted to have a clear view of most of
the layout so I wanted to avoid a walled entrance.? So I
surprised the city permitting people, the member who helped with
the room plans not to mention most of my visitors too.? I
laminated two sheets of plywood to make it strong enough to
support at least a couple of guys standing on it, but still open
wide enough to accept a 4x8 sheet of material as it was used for
many photo sets for the NASG, SHS and several other clients.?
To help in raising the door, I used part of a
steel plate cut and welded to make a 60+- lbs counterweight that
I put in the wall cavity. It was never a body building exercise
but over the years it's become more so!?
So I'm looking for a helping hand as I age--any
suggestions?? I've got more photos.? Off hand I've thought about
garage door openers, automotive rear hatch struts and ... (out
of ideas here!)?
Bob Werre
PhotoTraxx
|
Harbor Freight sells a small 12v. cable winch with a remote, which should easily lift your door.
|
This has been a good creative excercise
and I thank you for the ideas.? All make sense in some way but
there are only so many ways this can be accomplished in the
critically narrow space I have--here is where that extra 6" or 2'
or maybe 6' would be perfect!?
Indeed this addition (450 sq ft),was
largely scratchbilt, although I did hire a helper with 'some'
knowledge plus a high school level textbook.? Club members helped
in several areas, especially when it came time to haul
wheelbarrows of concrete!? I also had only basic knowledge of
these trades, but it passed the inspections once I determined the
rules!? Over the years it's also endured a handful of hurricanes.?
I couldn't began a project like that again.?
It's been mentioned to add additional
weight--I did add several lbs a few years back but it reached the
point of starting to put a bow in the door, so that point had been
reached.? The power winch might work--thinking of the units
mounted on Jeep's to get out of trouble.? If they work on 12 volts
that could be the answer--note to self--check it out!? As a
battery backup could handle loss of power too!? A typical hand
crank used to reel in a small boat could work too--we used them to
raise large lights and scrims in the studio--just where do I
anchor it?
Bob Werre
Phototraxx
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Pulleys and a cable attached to the door so you can pull from base
of stairs to open the door easily with your existing counter
weights. I had to come up with a door up to my railroad room as
well though my door doesn¡¯t open up into the room but the loft
area in front of the room I designed a very lightweight door
similar to how you would make a module with 1x4 and foam and used
automotive gas pistons from a car hood system to easily open the
door and allow it to stay open. While that works for me now I can
see when I get older it could be harder to open even for me but
that is when I¡¯ll install a pulley to aid in opening it with
little to no effort. Just a thought.?
   
On Jun 25, 2024, at 12:09?PM, Bob
Werre <bob@...> wrote:
?
Over the past 20-30 years that I've "been
work'in on the railroad--all the live long day" and
basically having a blast in creating the monster.?? I'm
starting to have regrets over 2 things other than; too
small of a room and no water/bathroom (both beyond my
control financially)!?
My isle became a bit cramped due to not
planning for a couple inches for
view-block/background+wood trim and my slightly
increased waistline!? The other thing is my floor-door!?
That has become increasingly an issue.? I've attached a
couple of photos.? I wanted to avoid an outside
entrance/stairway, I also wanted to have a clear view of
most of the layout so I wanted to avoid a walled
entrance.? So I surprised the city permitting people,
the member who helped with the room plans not to mention
most of my visitors too.? I laminated two sheets of
plywood to make it strong enough to support at least a
couple of guys standing on it, but still open wide
enough to accept a 4x8 sheet of material as it was used
for many photo sets for the NASG, SHS and several other
clients.?
To help in raising the door, I used part
of a steel plate cut and welded to make a 60+- lbs
counterweight that I put in the wall cavity. It was
never a body building exercise but over the years it's
become more so!?
So I'm looking for a helping hand as I
age--any suggestions?? I've got more photos.? Off hand
I've thought about garage door openers, automotive rear
hatch struts and ... (out of ideas here!)?
Bob Werre
PhotoTraxx
<DSCN9941.JPG>
<DSCN9945.JPG>
<floordoor.3.jpg>
|
Jeff, You could try a cheap ATV winch from Harbor freight that would allow you to lift and reset your hatch with the push of a button. Probably won¡¯t even deeded the gas struts.
Regards,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jun 25, 2024, at 12:22?PM, JJundt <cobramach1@...> wrote:
?
Pulleys and a cable attached to the door so you can pull from base of stairs to open the door easily with your existing counter weights. I had to come up with a door up to my railroad room as well though my door doesn¡¯t open up into the room but the loft area
in front of the room I designed a very lightweight door similar to how you would make a module with 1x4 and foam and used automotive gas pistons from a car hood system to easily open the door and allow it to stay open. While that works for me now I can see
when I get older it could be harder to open even for me but that is when I¡¯ll install a pulley to aid in opening it with little to no effort. Just a thought.?
<image0.jpeg> <image1.jpeg> <image2.jpeg> <image3.jpeg>
On Jun 25, 2024, at 12:09?PM, Bob Werre <bob@...> wrote:
?
Over the past 20-30 years that I've "been work'in on the railroad--all the live long day" and basically having a blast in creating the monster.?? I'm starting to have regrets over 2 things other than; too small of a room and no water/bathroom
(both beyond my control financially)!?
My isle became a bit cramped due to not planning for a couple inches for view-block/background+wood trim and my slightly increased waistline!? The other thing is my floor-door!? That has become increasingly an issue.? I've attached a couple
of photos.? I wanted to avoid an outside entrance/stairway, I also wanted to have a clear view of most of the layout so I wanted to avoid a walled entrance.? So I surprised the city permitting people, the member who helped with the room plans not to mention
most of my visitors too.? I laminated two sheets of plywood to make it strong enough to support at least a couple of guys standing on it, but still open wide enough to accept a 4x8 sheet of material as it was used for many photo sets for the NASG, SHS and
several other clients.?
To help in raising the door, I used part of a steel plate cut and welded to make a 60+- lbs counterweight that I put in the wall cavity. It was never a body building exercise but over the years it's become more so!?
So I'm looking for a helping hand as I age--any suggestions?? I've got more photos.? Off hand I've thought about garage door openers, automotive rear hatch struts and ... (out of ideas here!)?
Bob Werre
PhotoTraxx
<DSCN9941.JPG>
<DSCN9945.JPG>
<floordoor.3.jpg>
|
I built something similar but ?smaller?and used? spring loaded hinges? from the local hardware or big box store. ? Put that in your favorite search engine? There are MANY options, for example;
-- Ted Larson trainweb.org/mhrr/??????? --------??????? NASG.org??????? --------??????? GN in 1965
|
Have you considered a lighter door? I can't determine your exact construction but thinner plywood, 1x cross braces and a solid foam core might be as strong but less weight.
AJ
|
Bob W.,
The preceding responses have ranged from very good to potentially dangerous.? Before this thread gets too far out in the weeds, please clarify the purpose and expectations for your train room "door". The photos you provided in your first post were full of great details.? You are your own architect for this "door".
In no particular order I offer the following questions to help resolve your design criteria.
1.? Is the "door" intended to only keep pets, critters and unauthorized persons out of the train room?
2.? Is the "door", when 'closed' intended to support the weight (in the manner of a 'floor') of an authorized train room visitor?
3.? If not intended to function as a "floor", how will you protect an authorized visitor from a serious fall down the stairs should the "door" remain 'open' during train room activity?
When equipped with your answers to the above questions, I hope the commenters will provide more meaningful suggestions.
--Dave McBrayer
Auburn, CA
---------------
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 06/26/2024 11:49 AM, AJ via groups.io wrote: Have you considered a lighter door? I can't determine your exact construction but thinner plywood, 1x cross braces and a solid foam core might be as strong but less weight.
AJ
--
Dave McBrayer
Auburn, CA
|
Dave & Others,
I'll try and answer your questions as they are good.? Depending on traffic, and temperature the door might be open much of the time--November's tour is where the temp is moderate and humidity is agreeable with folks entering/leaving easily.? The AC/heat is a major factor as we seem to waste much of the energy we produce.? I generally have the door closed so myself and a couple of others can have a good time.? As I recently indicated the new kittens will love getting into things along with older neighbor cats, who have ventured inside to keep warm along with one lost bird!
The door is basically two sheets of glued plywood 1/2" and 3/4" but cut to 3' wide X 8' long.? I really didn't know what data could be found regarding keeping things straight without sagging and still be manageable weight wise.? The friend with some architectural experience (in remodeling/home building) who did the blueprints and basic deign had assumed that I was going to use a hollow core door similar to the old school inclined outdoor cellar? door--I knew that wasn't going to work.? I just could imagine three guys @200+ lbs being held up safely!? Usually one person is the load but we always hear of outside second floor decks that come crashing down during a party--didn't want that!? I also have some experience with office type solid core office doors (primarily for fire protection) and all their dead weight too!
The protection part of the floor and it's corresponding 'big black hole' is a problem.? I have a narrow walkway along the open edge that I use to get to the main entrance knob (a key locking deadbolt inset into the floor/decking)? So I will close the door, then stand on it and close the deadbolt. When it's open like any stairway, anybody can back into it and tumble.? I do have a plastic decorative chain across the opening (just like the safety chains between diesel units or caboose ends) but it's for a visuals purpose warning.? On the hinge side it's only 5" to the wall with mainline just above the door itself.? The top of the door in actually under the turntable area of the layout, so I feel that area is protected with the exception of the little people who have been known to wander around.? The other open edge is where my workbench is located, so it blocks access to that opening except for the narrow walkway.
I did have a city inspector give a final approval after having a couple of wiring issues (I simply didn't understand the procedures) and then issue a waver on the slab sections (laid more than a year earlier which was again wheel-barreled in by fellow S guys).? He specified installing a safety railing on the steps, but didn't mention a railing around the opening itself, but I already had much of that in my mind's design!? As you can see I recently installed a short "chunk" of railing (run diagonally) on the door itself that helps in navigation of the first step or two.? Over the years, I've been watching how people from the very young to just before the 'walker' bunch use the stairs, 'cause I knew I was not getting any younger!? I've always kept an eye on how visitors are 'handled' as guests at conventions/tours!
Bob Werre
PhotoTraxx
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Bob W.
The preceding responses have ranged from very good to potentially dangerous.? Before this thread gets too far out in the weeds, please clarify the purpose and expectations for your train room "door". The photos you provided in your first post were full of great details.? You are your own architect for this "door".
In no particular order I offer the following questions to help resolve your design criteria.
1.? Is the "door" intended to only keep pets, critters and unauthorized persons out of the train room?
2.? Is the "door", when 'closed' intended to support the weight (in the manner of a 'floor') of an authorized train room visitor?
3.? If not intended to function as a "floor", how will you protect an authorized visitor from a serious fall down the stairs should the "door" remain 'open' during train room activity?
When equipped with your answers to the above questions, I hope the commenters will provide more meaningful suggestions.
--Dave McBrayer
Auburn, CA
---------------
On 06/26/2024 11:49 AM, AJ via groups.io wrote:
Have you considered a lighter door? I can't determine your exact construction but thinner plywood, 1x cross braces and a solid foam core might be as strong but less weight.
AJ
|
Bob,
Thank you for your reply.? You have put a lot of thought into the "door" and access to it re the safety of yourself and others.? I'll go back to lurking now.?? Have a great time modelling.
Dave McBrayer
Auburn, CA
---------------
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 06/27/2024 6:16 AM, Bob Werre via groups.io wrote: Dave & Others,
I'll try and answer your questions as they are good.? Depending on traffic, and temperature the door might be open much of the time--November's tour is where the temp is moderate and humidity is agreeable with folks entering/leaving easily.? The AC/heat is a major factor as we seem to waste much of the energy we produce.? I generally have the door closed so myself and a couple of others can have a good time.? As I recently indicated the new kittens will love getting into things along with older neighbor cats, who have ventured inside to keep warm along with one lost bird!
The door is basically two sheets of glued plywood 1/2" and 3/4" but cut to 3' wide X 8' long.? I really didn't know what data could be found regarding keeping things straight without sagging and still be manageable weight wise.? The friend with some architectural experience (in remodeling/home building) who did the blueprints and basic deign had assumed that I was going to use a hollow core door similar to the old school inclined outdoor cellar? door--I knew that wasn't going to work.? I just could imagine three guys @200+ lbs being held up safely!? Usually one person is the load but we always hear of outside second floor decks that come crashing down during a party--didn't want that!? I also have some experience with office type solid core office doors (primarily for fire protection) and all their dead weight too!
The protection part of the floor and it's corresponding 'big black hole' is a problem.? I have a narrow walkway along the open edge that I use to get to the main entrance knob (a key locking deadbolt inset into the floor/decking)? So I will close the door, then stand on it and close the deadbolt. When it's open like any stairway, anybody can back into it and tumble.? I do have a plastic decorative chain across the opening (just like the safety chains between diesel units or caboose ends) but it's for a visuals purpose warning.? On the hinge side it's only 5" to the wall with mainline just above the door itself.? The top of the door in actually under the turntable area of the layout, so I feel that area is protected with the exception of the little people who have been known to wander around.? The other open edge is where my workbench is located, so it blocks access to that opening except for the narrow walkway.
I did have a city inspector give a final approval after having a couple of wiring issues (I simply didn't understand the procedures) and then issue a waver on the slab sections (laid more than a year earlier which was again wheel-barreled in by fellow S guys).? He specified installing a safety railing on the steps, but didn't mention a railing around the opening itself, but I already had much of that in my mind's design!? As you can see I recently installed a short "chunk" of railing (run diagonally) on the door itself that helps in navigation of the first step or two.? Over the years, I've been watching how people from the very young to just before the 'walker' bunch use the stairs, 'cause I knew I was not getting any younger!? I've always kept an eye on how visitors are 'handled' as guests at conventions/tours!
Bob Werre
PhotoTraxx
Bob W.
The preceding responses have ranged from very good to potentially dangerous.? Before this thread gets too far out in the weeds, please clarify the purpose and expectations for your train room "door". The photos you provided in your first post were full of great details.? You are your own architect for this "door".
In no particular order I offer the following questions to help resolve your design criteria.
1.? Is the "door" intended to only keep pets, critters and unauthorized persons out of the train room?
2.? Is the "door", when 'closed' intended to support the weight (in the manner of a 'floor') of an authorized train room visitor?
3.? If not intended to function as a "floor", how will you protect an authorized visitor from a serious fall down the stairs should the "door" remain 'open' during train room activity?
When equipped with your answers to the above questions, I hope the commenters will provide more meaningful suggestions.
--Dave McBrayer
Auburn, CA
---------------
On 06/26/2024 11:49 AM, AJ via groups.io wrote:
Have you considered a lighter door? I can't determine your exact construction but thinner plywood, 1x cross braces and a solid foam core might be as strong but less weight.
AJ
--
Dave McBrayer
Auburn, CA
|
? ? ? I'd build the door using aluminum angle and strips and TIG weld it together to make a multi cell, each cell being about ?9" squares. The top would be a 1/8" thick ?piece of Polycarbonate. Here locally we have a Junior college that has day and evening welding classes for welders to get certified. I've taken projects to the instructor and students have gladly took on the projects.?My cost for various projects was the metals and some Pizzas.
? ? ?For building many of my display cases my local plastic supplier has cut the polycarbonate to size for me to use as the display case windows. Polycarbonate does come in various colors and is extremely strong, not like the cheap acrylic plastic sheet.
Rusty
|
Bob Werre
John Degnan
Ted Larson
David McBrayer
