Gordy: Thanks for the history - neat...? You're talking about the one I still use!? When I was a kid, my dad would say, "get the tinker, tinker, tinker can", from the sound it made.? Since, to a little kid, tools had funny names, I could probably remember that better! Since I sort of inadvertently started the thread, let me try to put it to bed - if that is ever possible on this group!
The main reason for the effect was the more widespread use of thinner, cold rolled steel for side sheets.? Mills could make it just as strong but now thinner and lighter, which had weight advantages for freight cars.? The fact that change more or less coincided with the transition from riveted to welded cars is a bit of a red herring.? Like the 1930's Pullman photo I posted earlier and the two attached here, there are plenty of examples of riveted cars that show the oil canning effect.? Also, at least one company has been selling HO models with sides 3D printed to mimic oil canning for several years now, apparently not hard to model in 3D... A final non sequitur regarding the attached photo of the GAEX boxcar.? To bring it back to our home state of Michigan Gordy, you'll note that freight car is riding on Chrysler FR-5 trucks.? Enjoy! Jim Kindraka Grand Rapids, MI
On Sat, May 24, 2025 at 10:59?AM Gordy Michael wrote:
It¡¯s called ¡®oil canning¡¯ because the distorted metal will pop back and forth like the bottoms of older oil cans. You know the kind that allowed you to dispense a small amount by flexing the bottom usually with your thumb.
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By the time the effect is scaled down, it would likely fall under the heading of "not worth the trouble" and probably look more like a bad paint job.
?
Rich G(ajnak)
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It¡¯s called ¡®oil canning¡¯ because the distorted metal will pop back and forth like the bottoms of older oil cans. You know the kind that allowed you to dispense a small amount by flexing the bottom usually with your thumb.
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After completing this River raisin brass hoppers. I wanted to put removable coal loads in them. So I reached out to Dennis Brennan and Purchased his number two broken anthracite coal. This stuff is pretty nice. I thought I would share a photo of the two cars.?
--
Mike Swederska
Meramec Valley Lines
Modeling Mopac equipment in 3/16
https://www.youtube.com/@mikesscale3149
Don't let perfection get in the way of good enough! Keep model railroading fun!
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This is an example of oil canning ¨C the waviness of the steel sides due to welding. That would be very difficult to model. ? Thank You,
Bill Lane
Modeling the Mighty Pennsy, PRSL & Reading in 1957 in S Scale since 1987
See my finished models at:
Look at what has been made in PRR in S Scale! ? See my layout progress at:
Join the Pennsylvania Reading Seashore Lines Historical Society
It's FREE to join!??
Preserving The Memory Of The PRSL
?
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Re: Plastic paint striping
Someone said "mars paint". I was just pointing out there was a black pigment by that name.
On Friday, May 23, 2025 at 08:03:41 PM EDT, Edward Sauers via groups.io <edsauers@...> wrote:
Chris,
I think the only loco that AM has done so far in the MARS paint is the FP40PH, but I could be wrong!!!
Ed Sauers
On Fri, May 23, 2025 at 6:01?PM Chris Fauxturkey via <skogkatt007= [email protected]> wrote: Incidentally there's a color called mars black, the pigment being some type of iron oxide. Or a mixture. Different pigments are used, off the top of my head there are at least 3 different blacks (used in professional acrylic paints anyway). But this is probably unrelated to the reason why AM paint doesn't come off. I think this is likely to be a function of the binder/medium and not the pigment. I know, no one asked me :)
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Re: Plastic paint striping
Chris,
I think the only loco that AM has done so far in the MARS paint is the FP40PH, but I could be wrong!!!
Ed Sauers
On Fri, May 23, 2025 at 6:01?PM Chris Fauxturkey via <skogkatt007= [email protected]> wrote: Incidentally there's a color called mars black, the pigment being some type of iron oxide. Or a mixture. Different pigments are used, off the top of my head there are at least 3 different blacks (used in professional acrylic paints anyway). But this is probably unrelated to the reason why AM paint doesn't come off. I think this is likely to be a function of the binder/medium and not the pigment. I know, no one asked me :)
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The? 'Oil Canning Effect' isn't just limited to welded cars.???
Jim Kindraka Grand Rapids, MI Grand Rapids, MI
On Fri, May 23, 2025 at 4:59?PM Pieter Roos via <pieterroos53= [email protected]> wrote:
Hi Bob;
¡°Oil canning¡± is the wrinkled or slightly bowed sheet metal?panels on welded cars. Not often captured, although some people have used aluminum duct tape between the ribs on cars to get the effect.
Here is an article : hope I get the link in this time!
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Re: Plastic paint striping
Incidentally there's a color called mars black, the pigment being some type of iron oxide. Or a mixture. Different pigments are used, off the top of my head there are at least 3 different blacks (used in professional acrylic paints anyway). But this is probably unrelated to the reason why AM paint doesn't come off. I think this is likely to be a function of the binder/medium and not the pigment. I know, no one asked me :)
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Re: Plastic paint striping
Bill,
L Love to look at pictures of the original B&O EA/EB EMD units, those units?just looked so perfect to?me no matter?what paint scheme they represent!!!!
Ed
On Fri, May 23, 2025 at 4:45?PM William Winans via <3W2scalesonly= [email protected]> wrote: Hi Ed --
You know, no matter how ugly the particular diesel unit is (was), that paint job?always looks good!
Bill Winans ------------------------------- Mike,
CSX painted them in the old B&O Blue/black and Grey paint scheme.
Ed
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Hi Bob;
¡°Oil canning¡± is the wrinkled or slightly bowed sheet metal?panels on welded cars. Not often captured, although some people have used aluminum duct tape between the ribs on cars to get the effect.
Here is an article : hope I get the link in this time!
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Stony Smith Designs Hopper
In my previous response about this hopper car, I completely missed that entry. Sorry about that.
To John Mann: Yes, it was a design by Stony Smith Designs. I have it listed on the NASG web site:
(notset)steel,_fishbelly,_cylindrical,_single-bay,_center_discharge.php
The good news is that he has moved some of his designs over to the 3DP Train web site:
He doesn't list that S-scale hopper, but it might just be that he hasn't gotten any requests for it, or hasn't made it available on the 3DP Train site. His e-mail address is:
models@...
- Peter.
--
Peter Vanvliet (info@...)
owner, Fourth Ray Software
Houston, Texas
(personal web site)
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Re: Plastic paint striping
Hi Ed --
You know, no matter how ugly the particular diesel unit is (was), that paint job?always looks good!
Bill Winans -------------------------------
Mike,
CSX painted them in the old B&O Blue/black and Grey paint scheme.
Ed
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Re: Plastic paint striping
Mike,
CSX painted them in the old B&O Blue/black and Grey paint scheme.
Ed
On Fri, May 23, 2025 at 2:25?PM Mike Swederska via <mikesscale= [email protected]> wrote: I always put MARS with the color black. I think i had to do with the pigment that the paint is made up from. So if that¡¯s the case it mainly depends on what binders the paint uses.?
I¡¯m not familiar with the AM Amtrak paint scheme. Looking at the picture on AM¡¯s web site I would think the black was shot first then the silver and finally the colored stripes and logo. Surly Testors, AK or 91-99 isopropyl alcohol. Would get that part off the model.?
I would just concentrate on removing the stripes and logos. If the black doesn¡¯t come off and isn¡¯t marred beyond minor sanding, I¡¯d leave it.?
Depending on what final color the model is to be will determine what color it needs to be primed since you may be leaving the black and possibly the silver.?
I will also mention that the S12 I just finish was painted black by AM so I could decal and detail it for the MP. That black is tight with a semi gloss finish that seamed bullet prof. It also excepted decals better than most other factory paint work. Darn glad I didn¡¯t have to strip it.? Mike Swederska? ?I was thinking is it oil based paint?
Michael Osweiler? Waseca On May 23, 2025, at 12:47?PM, Chris Fauxturkey via <skogkatt007=[email protected]> wrote:
? Could it be that type of paint (Duplicote?) that when sprayed on first etches the plastic?
On Friday, May 23, 2025 at 01:35:59 PM EDT, Edward Sauers via <edsauers= [email protected]> wrote:
Bill,
I don't really know,,,I had a conversation with the guys at American Models about stripping the paint off of their EMD FP40s and the gentleman I spoke to said "you can't strip the paint off the FP40 because they?are painted with "MARS" paint. !!!!
I have tried the normal methods of stripping the factor paint and so I have not found anything that has removed the paint!!!!
I have not tried any of the new family of paint strippers though!!!
Hope this helps Ed Sauers As a relative noob, what does that ¡°MARS¡± mean, exactly?
> On May 22, 2025, at 9:41?PM, Edward Sauers via <edsauers=[email protected]> wrote:
>
> ?Mike,
>
> Just a reminder...when I asked the guys at AM they told me that the FP40 paint was "MARS" paint and it could not be stripped !!
>
> Ed
>
>> On 5/21/2025 2:48 PM, Mike Swederska via wrote:
>> Ed,
>> Haven¡¯t tried yet on a locomotive. But plan to soon on one of their box cars.
>> These are a pair of the Baldwin Centipede locos by Broadway Limited.
>>
>> Mike Swederska
>>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Mike Swederska
Meramec Valley Lines
Modeling Mopac equipment in 3/16
Don't let perfection get in the way of good enough! Keep model railroading fun!
|
Favor please!--what the heck is oil canning?? I can only
speculate that might be a wet ring around the can?
Bob Werre
?The programs can even add the oil canning effect quite well.?
Pretty cool...
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
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UP FA-2 and FB-2 set
UP FA #1600 A unit and
#1624a B unit both powered scale DC . Kadee couplers
Price $300.00 for set + $16.00 shipping $316.00 total.
Contact me off line at
fredschlegel7@...
Phone 402-499-7945
Fred Schlegel
7110 Culwells Ct
Lincoln. NE 68516
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Hi Bud... Your note reminded me that is exactly what I did - a very long time ago!? I ground the truck attachment bosses off the hirail version and used ACE bolsters with PRS trucks.? It was an early model and I've thought about selling it more than a few times but the gondola tub was damaged, like the lower sill was bent in a vise.? The damage makes the car look like it was "sideswiped" - more prototypical to me, so I've kept it.? I've attached photos of the side damage and also the truck mount, both
hard to capture in a photo.? I think I had to vacuum the workbench six times to clean up all the pot metal dust I ground off!
I do like the fact you can ding, dent and scratch metal and brass objects to make them look more prototypical - that doesn't work too well for plastic.? Although I understand now there are 3D CAD files that will mimic some of those effects during printing.? The programs can even add the oil canning effect quite well.? Pretty cool... Jim Kindraka Grand Rapids, MI
On Fri, May 23, 2025 at 11:22?AM Bud Rindfleisch via <BlackDiamondRR= [email protected]> wrote: I once had two scale Rex gons, in my infinite wisdom I sold them! I still have one hi rail version that with some milling work could be made ¡°scale¡± with a pair of Ace conversion boosters, the ones made with the shallower flat bottom. I have to weigh if I can find my gumption in the toolbox to tackle this!? ? ?Bud Rindfleisch
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Re: Plastic paint striping
I always put MARS with the color black. I think i had to do with the pigment that the paint is made up from. So if that¡¯s the case it mainly depends on what binders the paint uses.?
I¡¯m not familiar with the AM Amtrak paint scheme. Looking at the picture on AM¡¯s web site I would think the black was shot first then the silver and finally the colored stripes and logo. Surly Testors, AK or 91-99 isopropyl alcohol. Would get that part off the model.?
I would just concentrate on removing the stripes and logos. If the black doesn¡¯t come off and isn¡¯t marred beyond minor sanding, I¡¯d leave it.?
Depending on what final color the model is to be will determine what color it needs to be primed since you may be leaving the black and possibly the silver.?
I will also mention that the S12 I just finish was painted black by AM so I could decal and detail it for the MP. That black is tight with a semi gloss finish that seamed bullet prof. It also excepted decals better than most other factory paint work. Darn glad I didn¡¯t have to strip it.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On May 23, 2025, at 12:57?PM, SDL39FAN via groups.io <sdl39fan@...> wrote:
? I was thinking is it oil based paint?
Michael Osweiler? Waseca On May 23, 2025, at 12:47?PM, Chris Fauxturkey via groups.io <skogkatt007@...> wrote:
? Could it be that type of paint (Duplicote?) that when sprayed on first etches the plastic?
On Friday, May 23, 2025 at 01:35:59 PM EDT, Edward Sauers via groups.io <edsauers@...> wrote:
Bill,
I don't really know,,,I had a conversation with the guys at American Models about stripping the paint off of their EMD FP40s and the gentleman I spoke to said "you can't strip the paint off the FP40 because they?are painted with "MARS" paint. !!!!
I have tried the normal methods of stripping the factor paint and so I have not found anything that has removed the paint!!!!
I have not tried any of the new family of paint strippers though!!!
Hope this helps Ed Sauers As a relative noob, what does that ¡°MARS¡± mean, exactly?
> On May 22, 2025, at 9:41?PM, Edward Sauers via <edsauers=[email protected]> wrote:
>
> ?Mike,
>
> Just a reminder...when I asked the guys at AM they told me that the FP40 paint was "MARS" paint and it could not be stripped !!
>
> Ed
>
>> On 5/21/2025 2:48 PM, Mike Swederska via wrote:
>> Ed,
>> Haven¡¯t tried yet on a locomotive. But plan to soon on one of their box cars.
>> These are a pair of the Baldwin Centipede locos by Broadway Limited.
>>
>> Mike Swederska
>>
>
>
>
>
>
-- Mike Swederska
Meramec Valley Lines
Modeling Mopac equipment in 3/16
https://www.youtube.com/@mikesscale3149
Don't let perfection get in the way of good enough! Keep model railroading fun!
|
Re: Plastic paint striping
I was thinking is it oil based paint?
Michael Osweiler? Waseca
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On May 23, 2025, at 12:47?PM, Chris Fauxturkey via groups.io <skogkatt007@...> wrote:
? Could it be that type of paint (Duplicote?) that when sprayed on first etches the plastic?
On Friday, May 23, 2025 at 01:35:59 PM EDT, Edward Sauers via groups.io <edsauers@...> wrote:
Bill,
I don't really know,,,I had a conversation with the guys at American Models about stripping the paint off of their EMD FP40s and the gentleman I spoke to said "you can't strip the paint off the FP40 because they?are painted with "MARS" paint. !!!!
I have tried the normal methods of stripping the factor paint and so I have not found anything that has removed the paint!!!!
I have not tried any of the new family of paint strippers though!!!
Hope this helps Ed Sauers As a relative noob, what does that ¡°MARS¡± mean, exactly?
> On May 22, 2025, at 9:41?PM, Edward Sauers via <edsauers=[email protected]> wrote:
>
> ?Mike,
>
> Just a reminder...when I asked the guys at AM they told me that the FP40 paint was "MARS" paint and it could not be stripped !!
>
> Ed
>
>> On 5/21/2025 2:48 PM, Mike Swederska via wrote:
>> Ed,
>> Haven¡¯t tried yet on a locomotive. But plan to soon on one of their box cars.
>> These are a pair of the Baldwin Centipede locos by Broadway Limited.
>>
>> Mike Swederska
>>
>
>
>
>
>
|
Re: Plastic paint striping
Could it be that type of paint (Duplicote?) that when sprayed on first etches the plastic?
On Friday, May 23, 2025 at 01:35:59 PM EDT, Edward Sauers via groups.io <edsauers@...> wrote:
Bill,
I don't really know,,,I had a conversation with the guys at American Models about stripping the paint off of their EMD FP40s and the gentleman I spoke to said "you can't strip the paint off the FP40 because they?are painted with "MARS" paint. !!!!
I have tried the normal methods of stripping the factor paint and so I have not found anything that has removed the paint!!!!
I have not tried any of the new family of paint strippers though!!!
Hope this helps Ed Sauers
As a relative noob, what does that ¡°MARS¡± mean, exactly?
> On May 22, 2025, at 9:41?PM, Edward Sauers via <edsauers=[email protected]> wrote:
>
> ?Mike,
>
> Just a reminder...when I asked the guys at AM they told me that the FP40 paint was "MARS" paint and it could not be stripped !!
>
> Ed
>
>> On 5/21/2025 2:48 PM, Mike Swederska via wrote:
>> Ed,
>> Haven¡¯t tried yet on a locomotive. But plan to soon on one of their box cars.
>> These are a pair of the Baldwin Centipede locos by Broadway Limited.
>>
>> Mike Swederska
>>
>
>
>
>
>
|
Bill Lane
Bob Werre
SDL39FAN