Re: A F Tank Car Question
John Degnan
Gale Minard offers a copy service for NASG members
John Mann
Thanks Peter. If you happen to know which edition(s) of the S Gaugian had that series, please let me know. Perhaps someone here has the issue(s) and would be willing to scan and share it...?
John D
Hi John;
I think they are much too large for an 8000 gal. car. There was a series in S Gaugian on prototypes for AF models. As I recall the author thought it was a 10,000 gal, but about 20% oversized (the Car Builders Cyc shows one drawing with a table of dimensions for the different capacities).
Pieter Roos
On Thursday, January 30, 2025, 9:17 PM, John Degnan via groups.io <scaler164@...> wrote:
Speaking of the AF Tank Car...
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Does anyone here have any idea what prototype this model may have been based on?? Or what TYPE and CAPACITY of car it is supposed to represent?
?
It never occurred to me before tonight... but could this car possibly represent a 8000 gallon car similar to the one in the attached photos?? Or could it be used (without too much major surgery) as a starting point to model one of these cars?
?
?
John D
Scaler164
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Re: A F Tank Car Question
The Seaboard tank reads 8000 gal, and the waste oil looks to read 6450 gals but someone may have a better photo.
PDFs of the Dispatch together with an author and subject index are at
Jim
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Re: A F Tank Car Question
PDFs of the Dispatch together with an author and subject index are at
Jim
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Re: A F Tank Car Question
Thanks Peter. If you happen to know which edition(s) of the S Gaugian had that series, please let me know. Perhaps someone here has the issue(s) and would be willing to scan and share it...?
John D
Hi John;
I think they are much too large for an 8000 gal. car. There was a series in S Gaugian on prototypes for AF models. As I recall the author thought it was a 10,000 gal, but about 20% oversized (the Car Builders Cyc shows one drawing with a table of dimensions for the different capacities).
Pieter Roos
On Thursday, January 30, 2025, 9:17 PM, John Degnan via groups.io <scaler164@...> wrote:
Speaking of the AF Tank Car...
?
Does anyone here have any idea what prototype this model may have been based on?? Or what TYPE and CAPACITY of car it is supposed to represent?
?
It never occurred to me before tonight... but could this car possibly represent a 8000 gallon car similar to the one in the attached photos?? Or could it be used (without too much major surgery) as a starting point to model one of these cars?
?
?
John D
Scaler164
?
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Re: A F Tank Car Question
Hi John;
I think they are much too large for an 8000 gal. car. There was a series in S Gaugian on prototypes for AF models. As I recall the author thought it was a 10,000 gal, but about 20% oversized (the Car Builders Cyc shows one drawing with a table of dimensions for the different capacities).
On Thursday, January 30, 2025, 9:17 PM, John Degnan via groups.io <scaler164@...> wrote:
Speaking of the AF Tank Car...
?
Does anyone here have any idea what prototype this model may have been based on?? Or what TYPE and CAPACITY of car it is supposed to represent?
?
It never occurred to me before tonight... but could this car possibly represent a 8000 gallon car similar to the one in the attached photos?? Or could it be used (without too much major surgery) as a starting point to model one of these cars?
?
?
John D
Scaler164
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Re: Unique Southern Pacific AC-5 Cab Forward 4-8-8-2 for sale
John...Thanks For The response.? I had not ment?to start a thread on?Jesse Bennett locomotives, but I do find all of the responses interesting. I believe it's important to remember where the works of art from our early and very talented S scale modelers went/are. Not just Jesse, either.? It's Worth a page or two on the NASG website.? We both?know who sent me the AC-5 and I remain most appreciative.? It took a lot of effort to get it back to running plus up to date with Dan's brass castings.? There's probably?a good story as to how Arden ended up with those models.? He once told me the family wanted to keep them.? Also, I wonder who the guy is with the podcast (you tube) showing the Yellowstone and unpainted brass Challenger?operating.? There is a link to both on the NASG website.??
Many thanks & I hope all is?well with you.
Bob
Bob: ? The please read my message more carefully.? I was not discussing your AC-5.? The second AC-5 as well as the Big Boy and Challenger ( and I think the AC-12 though I do not recall) went to the NMRA for display at CSRM.? The same guy that sent you your AC-5 at the direction of the Goehring family delivered these locos to Bob Brown and Charlie Getz who were heading up the NMRA exhibit at the CSRM.? ? ? Thanks to Robert Carter who confirmed that these locos are on display.? I hope to have the opportunity to see them this weekend when I attend the LdSig/OpSig meeting at CSRM this weekend. ? ~ John
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Re: It's Official: No More Flyer
On Mon, Jan 27, 2025 at 06:30 PM, Andrew Parker wrote:
Sorry Ed,? as much as I love all the stuff I have bought from you I'm now switching to Z guage.
Andrew.........I, for one, will miss you and all the future purchases we might have transacted.? I have operated on only one Z scale layout, but I must admit it is a totally new perspective on things.? Z scale does offer a "big picture" opportunity missing in the larger scales.? Have fun.........Ed L.
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Ed Loizeaux
Los Altos, CA
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?I said I bought them over a dozen years ago, not that that was when they were built.? In fact, from the commercial parts used, they were built around forty years ago, if not even older.
?
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The workmanship on your tanks looks good but I don't think the time lines, line up.?
Bob Werre
Browsing old Heralds and other journals, apparently the Setsers (Seltzers?) did quite a bit of business repainting AF bodies.
I'm pretty sure I've mentioned that I bought a pair of much-rebuilt tank cars at an S Fest over a dozen years ago.? Someone with?
both ability and dedication had done an excellent job of turning the AF tank bodies into credible scale cars.? Could even have been?
Troxell.? Do either of these look familiar, Bob?
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Speaking of the AF Tank Car...
?
Does anyone here have any idea what prototype this model may have been based on?? Or what TYPE and CAPACITY of car it is supposed to represent?
?
It never occurred to me before tonight... but could this car possibly represent a 8000 gallon car similar to the one in the attached photos?? Or could it be used (without too much major surgery) as a starting point to model one of these cars?
?
?
John D
Scaler164
?
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REgarding;? --  ?? I know there are potential issues with putting die A into injection molding machine B,?Yes there are potential issues, but In general there are few issues with running a mold in a different injection molding press as long as the press is properly chosen for the needs of the mold.??
Ted Larson -- Ted Larson trainweb.org/mhrr/??????? --------??????? NASG.org??????? --------??????? GN in 1965
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The workmanship on your tanks looks
good but I don't think the time lines, line up.?
Bob Werre
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Browsing old Heralds and other journals, apparently the Setsers
(Seltzers?) did quite a bit of business repainting AF bodies.
I'm pretty sure I've mentioned that I bought a pair of
much-rebuilt tank cars at an S Fest over a dozen years ago.?
Someone with?
both ability and dedication had done an excellent job of turning
the AF tank bodies into credible scale cars.? Could even have
been?
Troxell.? Do either of these look familiar, Bob?
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Browsing old Heralds and other journals, apparently the Setsers (Seltzers?) did quite a bit of business repainting AF bodies.
I'm pretty sure I've mentioned that I bought a pair of much-rebuilt tank cars at an S Fest over a dozen years ago.? Someone with?
both ability and dedication had done an excellent job of turning the AF tank bodies into credible scale cars.? Could even have been?
Troxell.? Do either of these look familiar, Bob?
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Let me mention just a tiny bit of history here.?
Much of the end of Flyer in the 60's ended up at Hobby Surplus in large bins of parts.? When our lost bid for the NASG convention and it's related car occured, Jack Troxell still wanted a tank car train, so he built one!? He bought
a couple dozen of those very Shell Tank car shells and the chassis for them.? There were only two pieces--- chassis with bottom half of the tank, and then the top half of the tank.? Your photo shows it's missing the metal railing, & the ladder.? I'm surprised
it has the safety plaque and brake wheel.? Regardless, he spent about $2.00each.?
Of course it's well known what kinda work he did with those cars!? I put one aside for my RR, but I also have possession of all the jigs he made for that conversion.? I guess they are for sale!? However the knowledge to actually
make new versions has been lost. ?
So yes, not worth anything much above a couple of bucks back then so you can't expect much more today.? So Lionel should have been aware of all the old stuff that probably was of better quality when they opened that surprise box
and let the vampire live again!.?
Then we have old Rollie stomping on old AF cabooses as he auctioned them off!
Bob Werre
ABSOLUTELY CORRECT, Bill... ebay is the nail in AF's coffin.? I can't count the numbers of UNSELLING AF trains that are always listed on ebay, and at prices that one might think would guarantee a sale... but
no.? It seems that sellers can't even "GIVE" them away.? And I can attest to that fact since I have been trying to sell TWO NIV Lionel/AF items for over 4 years on the GROUPS, and I have not had even ONE bite of interest in them... even listed at MAKE OFFER
and pay postage prices.? So it looks like I'm literally going to have to throw them in the trash!
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(See attached images and MAKE ME AN OFFER)
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John D
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Re: Springfield Train Show
If memory serves, that was about the original list price.? At Bristol NASG (three years ago?) someone had a Flying Yankee for around $800, as I recall, apparently with no takers.? I'd have grabbed it, except I'd already gotten mine as part of a high-end lot
of S scale brass; it took me 3-4 years to sell it all, most of it as attractively priced as I could stand, but I recouped my investment and had the Flying Yankee to the good.
JGGK
The Bristol S Gauge Railroaders had a Flying Yankee on their sale table
which went fairly quickly asking $2300. They had maybe a dozen used
scale freight cars for sale. They also had a couple of dozen Hi-Rail and
AF pieces. There were a number of other booths with Hi-Rail and AF but I
didn't see any other scale S gauge.
Jim Woodward
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----- Original Message -----
Andrew Parker wrote:
The SD70 was retrofitted with scale wheels and couplers mounted to the body. <snip> It also threw every car attached to the loco off the rails on my 54" curves.??So, as a result I have to foist it on Bill's layout to enjoy its true potential.
> > > > > > > > >
That should not happen.??There's no way we can fix the problem from out here, but you have got to get you eyes right down at track-level and run it very slowly and see what the problem is.
tom Hawley??--??Lansing Mich
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Re: Unique Southern Pacific AC-5 Cab Forward 4-8-8-2 for sale
Bob: ? The please read my message more carefully.? I was not discussing your AC-5.? The second AC-5 as well as the Big Boy and Challenger ( and I think the AC-12 though I do not recall) went to the NMRA for display at CSRM.? The same guy that sent you your AC-5 at the direction of the Goehring family delivered these locos to Bob Brown and Charlie Getz who were heading up the NMRA exhibit at the CSRM.? ? ? Thanks to Robert Carter who confirmed that these locos are on display.? I hope to have the opportunity to see them this weekend when I attend the LdSig/OpSig meeting at CSRM this weekend. ? ~ John
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Re: It's Official: No More Flyer
All I can say is hmmmm.? ?I will have to take a closer look at what I have going on.? Thank you.
Andrew
On Wed, Jan 29, 2025 at 03:32 PM, Andrew Parker wrote:
?I see in your photos ES 44s.?
Well, the trailing locomotive is an SD70.
?
When I wrote my review in OGR back in 2012, I also included a photo of the SD70 coupled to an AM gondola and PRS 50' boxcar on my 29" radius passing track.? The couplers were at their limits, but the cars didn't derail.
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Re: Unique Southern Pacific AC-5 Cab Forward 4-8-8-2 for sale
Robert...
Many thanks for confirming this Jesse Bennett locomotive is at the CSRM.? The model is of SP #4209, a AC-10 Cab Forward. It has the "modern" cab and is detailed correctly?for?an AC-10, 11 or 12.?
?I noticed on the NASG website that a Leonard Williams has videos of Jesse's Northern Pacific Yellowstone #5011 (2-8-8-4) and a UP Challenger of his that is unpainted.? There is a direct link to view these two models?running.? ? If his UP Challenger and Big Boy are at CSRMthat means he built at least two Challengers,?including Leonard William's.? Still unaccounted for is his personal AC-5 "Flat faced" Cab Forward.? It can be seen on the NASG website, together with three other articulateds, in Vic Cherven's roundhouse photo on Jesse's layout.
Progress!
Bob Hogan
On Thu, Jan 30, 2025 at 1:08?PM Roger Nulton via <roger.nulton= [email protected]> wrote: Robert, Outstanding! Thanks. Roger Nulton ? ? Here is the Jess Bennett Cab Foward in the California State Railroad Museum in Sacramento, CA. They also have a Jess Bennett built Challenger and Big Boy.
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> Lionel was owned by Fundimensions/MPC back then and still finding its way in the market.? Lionel is now well established and owned by an investment company.
?
Interesting. Seems similar to M?rklin that was taken over by some hedgefonds guys. History repeated. I think in the years to come I will hunt for some modern Flyonel Diesels that fit into my roster and hopefully also find some replacement wheels for scale. Maybe some hoppers will come along with those machines.
Today I cleaned up my bureau and found some code 70 Shinohara in HO, brand new, never used. Bought in a time I was not into S but switching from M?rklin AC 3rail to DC 2rail to be able to run some locos that never came for the M?rklin system (that was before DCC and super tiny sound decoders). In the end it all remained a torso. I should do the test if my super detailed BLI B&O-locos (a nice E6 and a Baldwin Sharknose) are compatible with code 70 rail or if the flanges are too high for that kind of track.
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Greetings from a moist and windy winter night in Middle Franconia, Hans
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I don't think they'll reverse their decision of leaving the market. We are a niche in the hobby und we never were really interesting for them despite some lip service they did at the turn of the century around 1998. The short spring for Flyer was around 2010 - 2015 when they issued some "modern" Diesels and rolling stock like those infamous cylindrical hoppers with the well known problems. When I was in O only a very small segment of their catalog was of some interest for me. I bought some hoppers and a modern boxcar in heritage livery and with a lighted Star Spangled Banner that were well prepared for 2rail conversion with scale replacement wheels and predrilled holes for Kadees. Yes, Lionel did that although they sadly had none of their premium locos ever in a 2rail version.
Regarding traction power I was always relying on Atlas and MTH - they build some outstanding prototypes in O. For example I got George Walker Bush's SD70 and a few other treasures for 2rail O scale rtr, no conversion needed and equipped with a digital module that is compatible with DCC - not great like some ESU or ZIMO decoders, but useable. In S that prototype will remain a dream fading out slowly... At the moment we can be even glad if we get some rail in code 100 with Tomalco also leaving the business heading to an uncertain future...
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Tired greetings, Hans
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Re: Unique Southern Pacific AC-5 Cab Forward 4-8-8-2 for sale
Robert, Outstanding! Thanks. Roger Nulton ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Robert Carter via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2025 9:25 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Unique Southern Pacific AC-5 Cab Forward 4-8-8-2 for sale? Here is the Jess Bennett Cab Foward in the California State Railroad Museum in Sacramento, CA. They also have a Jess Bennett built Challenger and Big Boy.
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Rick Naylor
John Degnan
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Ted Larson
Bob Werre
Roger Nulton