Re: hypothetical question with a real answer
On Thu, Jun 20, 2024 at 02:50 PM, Shane Lambert wrote:
the "not enough stuff available" comment ticks me off.
Unfortunately the "not enough variety" is valid.
Gents.... How many of us have actually sat down with a real-life avid HO modeler and discussed the availability of S products?? Here we are asking ourselves about how to sell S to HO/N modelers but I see no evidence of knowing what the HO guys think about S. And so, without fanfare, here is what the HO guys in the San Francisco area have told me:? "There is not enough S product available to build the accurate authentic complete layout which I envision."?Nobody is counting the overall number of diesel engines or box cars or even RTR #6 turnouts on the open market.? Those statistics are meaningless to the HO fellows I mingle with.? If they want to model a particular road at a specific time, then they want as much stuff as possible to help them reach that goal.? Even us NYC fans in S do not have all that much.? For instance, where is a complete 20th Century Limited train?? Or, full-scale-length Budd passenger cars.? Simply not there, folks.? (Don't even mention there is a complicated craftsman kit for them.? Big turnoff in today's world of RTR products.) When HO guys start to think about it, it does not take much time for them to realize that S does not have enough products for them to reach their ultimate goal.? The overall total number of engines is irrelevant.? It is only the engines they seriously want which count. "If you cannot buy it, make it" only goes so far and usually not far enough. ?A tough situation for sure. ? Cheers.......... Ed L.? -- Ed Loizeaux Los Altos, CA
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Re: NWSL J&L Tank, Another Question
There is a builders photo, probably from the CBC, circulating.? The problem with builders photos is that too often they are painted in a light primer to highlight detail; most steam locomotives are shown that way.
I guess it is one of those unusual prototypes that attract disproportionate notice.? ?Seventy years ago Lobaugh offered a kit for one that was much sought after (and still is), and then Sunset/Third Rail imported some.??
Still it seems a very odd choice for Raoul Martin to dip his toe into S scale with.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Jace,
When these cars were in service they were black with what I remember was white lettering but it may have been silver.
I've performed a number of engineering projects at a number of steel mills including Aliquippa, PA where I first observed these cars. Mills were extremely competitive and therefore photographs were restricted
Mike
I just bought one of the NWSL J&L tank cars, mostly for historical interest, as I cannot possibly justify it for my shortline (nor can most other owners justify theirs, given the very limited prototype).
On the NASG website, Dick Karnes used the included Champ decals, but Tom Henderson apparently found another source of decals with slightly different lettering font.? Does anyone know about the latter source?
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Re: hypothetical question with a real answer
Oh yeah, the "not enough stuff available" comment pisses me off. I know my collection of 400+ freight cars and 50 locomotives, all in scale, is not the largest in the world. But when you consider that most of this was collected in a little over 2 years, it blows that comment out of the water.?
Unfortunately the "not enough variety" is valid. I'd love to have a few GP30's and SD40's on the roster, but I can make do with GP9's, GP35's and RS3's. Then again, if Bill Lane would stop hoarding the SD38's and SD40's, there would be more for the rest of us.
Mike,
One of the things I always found funny when doing local train shows
where the Houston S Gaugers had their layout set up, was when a member
of the audience, who showed some modicum of interest in S, exclaimed
that he would not entertain switching to "S" as "there is nothing
available in S". All they while, on the double-mainline club layout we
would have as many as 4 "scale" trains running, and the passenger yard
(on one side) and the freight yard (on the other side) fully loaded with
cars and spare engines!
So, one of my personal driving forces behind my efforts with the NASG
web site is to dispel the myth that there is "nothing available in S".
Granted, you can't go to your local hobby store (if there even is one)
and have your pick of S-scale products, but that is not really a
deterrent anymore in today's Inter-Web-connected world. Yes, one needs
patience, and, yes, one may need to build something oneself, but if one
wants something specific, one has to do the same in any other modeling
scale.
So, the simple fact of making people aware that there is plenty of
"stuff" available in S, but that you have to treat it more like a fun
"treasure hunt", is important. I think the fact that the "News" and
"Product Gallery" sections of the NASG web site are consistently the
most popular sections of the web site attests to the fact that people
are searching and researching S products.
And, the reason why I chose to respond to Alex' message, is that I, too,
came from the N-scale world. For me personally, it was the simple fact
that S wheels have a larger contact surface and thus run better on rails
that N engines do, that scratchbuilding is so much easier to do in S
than N, and, now, that it is easily possible to convert S engines to run
on battery power, which is next to impossible to do in N. I also think
that NOT having everything available all the time is helpful with the
"modeling budget". For me personally, the days of buying anything that
had "PRR" slapped on the side of it, are over.
- Peter.
On 06/20/2024 08:51 AM, alex binkley wrote:
> Well what attracted me to S was that it was good size for building
> structures especially scratchbuilt in. I had been In N which operated
> great but wasn't happy with my building results.
> cheers
>
>
> ?????? ------ Original Message ------
> ?????? From: MikeSscale@...
> ?????? To: [email protected]
> ?????? Sent: Thursday, June 20th 2024, 08:52
> ?????? Subject: [S-Scale] hypothetical question with a real answer
>
>
>
> ? if you were invited to be on a podcast to speak about S-Scale, what
> is the number one topic of S Scale that you would try to drive home to
> a non-S Scal?
> ? -- Mike SwederskaMeramec Valley LinesModeling Mopac equipment in
> 3/16Don't let perfection get in the way of good enough! Keep model
> railroading fun!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Peter Vanvliet (info@...)
owner, Fourth Ray Software
Houston, Texas
(personal web site)
|
Re: hypothetical question with a real answer
Hi All, First off, the New Tracks program is not a podcast. It is a Zoom meeting with a livestream on YouTube. It has video. I like to think of it as the Carol Burnett Show of model railroading. You tune in every week and there's usually?something entertaining. I started watching a couple years ago when Gaylord Gill and Randy Boscher did a "Build Along" of a Bar Mills One Kit. Wanting to support my friends, I built along. At some point Jim Kellow was begging for someone to send out the weekly notices, so I put my hand up. I like to help up. That's how I became the "Keeper of the List". Back in December he got someone to do an S scale segment every month, but the guy missed two out of the next three months, so Jim asked if I'd take over. Last night I talked about building passenger cars in S scale with highlights on some new products. Next month will be "Live From?the NASG Convention". Tune in. Jamie Bothwell
I would have put money --that I had
spelled it correctly! but apparently not--thanks Chuck? Yes it is
"Media Photographers" and I, B one!
Bob Werre
Just to be pedantic, it is
"Media" photographers, not "Median.'? However, in that group,
I suppose there would have to be a median photographer.
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
|
Re: hypothetical question with a real answer
I would have put money --that I had
spelled it correctly! but apparently not--thanks Chuck? Yes it is
"Media Photographers" and I, B one!
Bob Werre
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Just to be pedantic, it is
"Media" photographers, not "Median.'? However, in that group,
I suppose there would have to be a median photographer.
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
|
Re: hypothetical question with a real answer
Just to be pedantic, it is "Media" photographers, not "Median.'? However, in that group, I suppose there would have to be a median photographer.
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
On Thursday, June 20, 2024 at 01:09:40 PM PDT, Bob Werre <bob@...> wrote:
I have to put some of the blame on our
name--National Association of S Gaugers.? I
mentioned before that a visitor at a trainshow attended by
modelers (not just 'people who like trains') asked me what a
Gauger was!? Apparently even our name confuses some!? I didn't
know how to respond to that question.? The other realization now
is that much in the Lionel world is decent stuff that most can't
use in the Scale world.?
So two shots in the foot is a terrible
painful waste which makes it hard to carry on into the future!?
For most of my photography career I've
been a member of the ASMP, which at one time was named American
Society of Magazine Photographers.? That
worked well until the big magazines (Look/Life/Colliers/even
Playboy, etc) either closed or shrunk in subscribers.? Because so
much of our work was now destined for the web, it was changed to
American Society of Median Photographers.
20 years ago.? That went very smoothly.? I've been searching the
NASG for that change but so far, no luck.
So maybe it's time to make a painful
name change and get authorization for somebody to re-release
Lionel contemporary items with scale wheels etc.? For years
AM/SHS/SSA have offered their products in two versions, maybe it's
time to invest in 200-1000 engines with scale wheels and Kadee
type couplers without having to jump through hoops, hacks and
whatever else in getting things running without much effort--at
least to start with! All can run on new NASS #100 track and
turnouts.
Bob Werre
Phototraxx
On 6/20/24 11:29 AM, Shane Lambert
wrote:
Personally I'd like to address the misconception
that S Scale is too "toy like" to be taken seriously. I think
those who refer to S Scale as toy trains only know about
American Flyer and have not seen enough fine scale S to take it
seriously.?
To be clear, I don't think of it as toy like,
but I hear it a lot at shows, online, and in person when I
mention I model S Scale. I've seen some very nicely done
American Flyer layouts and equipment.
On Thu, Jun 20, 2024, 7:52 AM
Mike Swederska via <MikeSscale= [email protected]>
wrote:
?
if
you were invited to be on a podcast to speak about S-Scale,
what is the number one topic of S Scale that you would try
to drive home to a non-S Scal?
--
Mike Swederska
Meramec Valley Lines
Modeling Mopac equipment in 3/16
Don't let perfection get in the way of good enough! Keep model
railroading fun!
|
Re: hypothetical question with a real answer
Mike,
One of the things I always found funny when doing local train shows where the Houston S Gaugers had their layout set up, was when a member of the audience, who showed some modicum of interest in S, exclaimed that he would not entertain switching to "S" as "there is nothing available in S". All they while, on the double-mainline club layout we would have as many as 4 "scale" trains running, and the passenger yard (on one side) and the freight yard (on the other side) fully loaded with cars and spare engines!
So, one of my personal driving forces behind my efforts with the NASG web site is to dispel the myth that there is "nothing available in S". Granted, you can't go to your local hobby store (if there even is one) and have your pick of S-scale products, but that is not really a deterrent anymore in today's Inter-Web-connected world. Yes, one needs patience, and, yes, one may need to build something oneself, but if one wants something specific, one has to do the same in any other modeling scale.
So, the simple fact of making people aware that there is plenty of "stuff" available in S, but that you have to treat it more like a fun "treasure hunt", is important. I think the fact that the "News" and "Product Gallery" sections of the NASG web site are consistently the most popular sections of the web site attests to the fact that people are searching and researching S products.
And, the reason why I chose to respond to Alex' message, is that I, too, came from the N-scale world. For me personally, it was the simple fact that S wheels have a larger contact surface and thus run better on rails that N engines do, that scratchbuilding is so much easier to do in S than N, and, now, that it is easily possible to convert S engines to run on battery power, which is next to impossible to do in N. I also think that NOT having everything available all the time is helpful with the "modeling budget". For me personally, the days of buying anything that had "PRR" slapped on the side of it, are over.
- Peter.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 06/20/2024 08:51 AM, alex binkley wrote: Well what attracted me to S was that it was good size for building structures especially scratchbuilt in. I had been In N which operated great but wasn't happy with my building results.
cheers
?????? ------ Original Message ------
?????? From: MikeSscale@...
?????? To: [email protected]
?????? Sent: Thursday, June 20th 2024, 08:52
?????? Subject: [S-Scale] hypothetical question with a real answer
? if you were invited to be on a podcast to speak about S-Scale, what is the number one topic of S Scale that you would try to drive home to a non-S Scal?
? -- Mike SwederskaMeramec Valley LinesModeling Mopac equipment in 3/16Don't let perfection get in the way of good enough! Keep model railroading fun!
--
Peter Vanvliet (info@...)
owner, Fourth Ray Software
Houston, Texas
(personal web site)
|
Re: NWSL J&L Tank, Another Question
Jace,
When these cars were in service they were black with what I remember was white lettering but it may have been silver.
I've performed a number of engineering projects at a number of steel mills including Aliquippa, PA where I first observed these cars. Mills were extremely competitive and therefore photographs were restricted
Mike
I just bought one of the NWSL J&L tank cars, mostly for historical interest, as I cannot possibly justify it for my shortline (nor can most other owners justify theirs, given the very limited prototype).
On the NASG website, Dick Karnes used the included Champ decals, but Tom Henderson apparently found another source of decals with slightly different lettering font.? Does anyone know about the latter source?
|
Re: hypothetical question with a real answer
I have to put some of the blame on our
name--National Association of S Gaugers.? I
mentioned before that a visitor at a trainshow attended by
modelers (not just 'people who like trains') asked me what a
Gauger was!? Apparently even our name confuses some!? I didn't
know how to respond to that question.? The other realization now
is that much in the Lionel world is decent stuff that most can't
use in the Scale world.?
So two shots in the foot is a terrible
painful waste which makes it hard to carry on into the future!?
For most of my photography career I've
been a member of the ASMP, which at one time was named American
Society of Magazine Photographers.? That
worked well until the big magazines (Look/Life/Colliers/even
Playboy, etc) either closed or shrunk in subscribers.? Because so
much of our work was now destined for the web, it was changed to
American Society of Median Photographers.
20 years ago.? That went very smoothly.? I've been searching the
NASG for that change but so far, no luck.
So maybe it's time to make a painful
name change and get authorization for somebody to re-release
Lionel contemporary items with scale wheels etc.? For years
AM/SHS/SSA have offered their products in two versions, maybe it's
time to invest in 200-1000 engines with scale wheels and Kadee
type couplers without having to jump through hoops, hacks and
whatever else in getting things running without much effort--at
least to start with! All can run on new NASS #100 track and
turnouts.
Bob Werre
Phototraxx
On 6/20/24 11:29 AM, Shane Lambert
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Personally I'd like to address the misconception
that S Scale is too "toy like" to be taken seriously. I think
those who refer to S Scale as toy trains only know about
American Flyer and have not seen enough fine scale S to take it
seriously.?
To be clear, I don't think of it as toy like,
but I hear it a lot at shows, online, and in person when I
mention I model S Scale. I've seen some very nicely done
American Flyer layouts and equipment.
On Thu, Jun 20, 2024, 7:52 AM
Mike Swederska via <MikeSscale= [email protected]>
wrote:
?
if
you were invited to be on a podcast to speak about S-Scale,
what is the number one topic of S Scale that you would try
to drive home to a non-S Scal?
--
Mike Swederska
Meramec Valley Lines
Modeling Mopac equipment in 3/16
Don't let perfection get in the way of good enough! Keep model
railroading fun!
|
Re: Diesels on the way out..............in California
We can look forward to "California layouts." ?Rather than plugged into an unreliable electrical grid subject to rotating blackouts, power up with an exercise bike attached to a 12 volt DC generator. ?For smaller layouts, convert them to tilt-tables, balanced on an old bowling ball. ?You can put those free rolling S scale locomotives with a split gear to use and also model functional wheel chocks to hold cars at customer sidings. ??
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I forgot to mention the NASG promo ad and the S features start at about the 8:30 mark in the video.
Brooks Stover
|
I mentioned in Mike's "Hypothetical Question" thread that the NASG is now a sponsor of Jim Kellow's NEW TRACK MODELING podcast.? ?I just looked and there was a episode yesterday and besides the NASG video 'ad', Jamie Bothwell and Joel Weber did segments on scale and hi-rail respectively.? ?If you're not familiar with NEW TRACKS MODELING, here's a link to yesterday's episode.
?
Brooks Stover
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Re: hypothetical question with a real answer
Taking what Shane Lambert said and running with it... For starters... if I were to do a presentation, it would focus on the fact that American Flyer does NOT solely represent S scale, as most outsiders seem to think, and would reveal the realistic models that both are and have been offered in both brass, other metals, resins and plastics from other S manufacturers. It would be heavy on visual (photographic) evidence.
I have done essentially this very same thing through my efforts with the displays I have set up at numerous train shows and RPM meetings over the years, but printed media can go so much farther than I can with my displays.
John D
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Re: hypothetical question with a real answer
Advantages of S Scale given the eyesight/available space ratio.? :-)
Perhaps Jim Whipple or Jamie Bothwell will pitch in here but the NASG is now a sponsor of Jim Kellow's podcast "NEW TRACKS MODELING".? We recently completed a 60 second video 'ad' promoting S which runs on the NEW TRACKS show once a month, I believe.? It includes, among other images, some of the excellent S layouts that have been used in the RMC ad campaign.? I think that Jamie is the 'point person' for the NASG in terms of lining up presentations on S topics to share with the 'attendees' of the podcast.? ?I'm sure he'd love to hear from anyone on this list that has a hankerin' to do a podcast presentation on any aspect of S modeling.
Brooks Stover
|
Re: hypothetical question with a real answer
Perhaps Jim Whipple or Jamie Bothwell will pitch in here but the NASG is now a sponsor of Jim Kellow's podcast "NEW TRACKS MODELING".? We recently completed a 60 second video 'ad' promoting S which runs on the NEW TRACKS show once a month, I believe.? It includes, among other images, some of the excellent S layouts that have been used in the RMC ad campaign.? I think that Jamie is the 'point person' for the NASG in terms of lining up presentations on S topics to share with the 'attendees' of the podcast.? ?I'm sure he'd love to hear from anyone on this list that has a hankerin' to do a podcast presentation on any aspect of S modeling.
Brooks Stover
|
Re: RDC-3 (with RPO & baggage)
From:?Ed Loizeaux
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2024 08:47:32 PDT?
. . . I do not have photos of the interior. ?The main visible improvement was the addition?of seats and passengers. . .
I typed “budd rdc interior” into my web browser address window, and a variety of images popped into view.? --?
Bill Roberts
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Re: hypothetical question with a real answer
Personally I'd like to address the misconception that S Scale is too "toy like" to be taken seriously. I think those who refer to S Scale as toy trains only know about American Flyer and have not seen enough fine scale S to take it seriously.?
To be clear, I don't think of it as toy like, but I hear it a lot at shows, online, and in person when I mention I model S Scale. I've seen some very nicely done American Flyer layouts and equipment.
On Thu, Jun 20, 2024, 7:52 AM Mike Swederska via <MikeSscale= [email protected]> wrote: ?
if you were invited to be on a podcast to speak about S-Scale, what is the number one topic of S Scale that you would try to drive home to a non-S Scal?
--
Mike Swederska
Meramec Valley Lines
Modeling Mopac equipment in 3/16
Don't let perfection get in the way of good enough! Keep model railroading fun!
|
NWSL J&L Tank, Another Question
I just bought one of the NWSL J&L tank cars, mostly for historical interest, as I cannot possibly justify it for my shortline (nor can most other owners justify theirs, given the very limited prototype).
On the NASG website, Dick Karnes used the included Champ decals, but Tom Henderson apparently found another source of decals with slightly different lettering font.? Does anyone know about the latter source?
|
Re: hypothetical question with a real answer
Hi Mike..........
The two main ideas I would present are:
1.? It is possible to construct a complete and finished outstanding layout even though S has fewer products than HO or N.? Having fewer products in S should not be a deterrent.?
2.? Inform listeners how to find S products.? Most folks just take a quick trip to the local hobby shop and then conclude S has nothing to offer.? With smarter effort, S products are easily found.? Prepare yourself for direct mail order from S manufacturers.
Have fun.........Ed Loizeaux
--
Ed Loizeaux
Los Altos, CA
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Did Gene Walp do the silk screened sides for the Kinsman refrigerator car kits?
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Bob Werre
John Degnan