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Looking for a good source of photos and info on the?Santa fe's?citrus industry sites.? The kite route particularly north of the Santa Ana River (highland area).? I have been photographing and recording my findings but they are all post closing of the line.? Anyway if there someone in the group that wants to share info let me know.

Joe

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I just joined the group as well.??? I haven't had much time for modeling these days, but I will one day in the future.??? Till then, I love eating and growing?citrus?fruit, building model trains, and the?geography and history of SoCal and the SP.???? So it was a no-brainer joining.?? ; )
Jason

I saw the posting in the Santa Fe group so I thought I'd join. I'm
planning a small packing operation on my own layout. I hope to learn
some interesting stuff about this colorful industry. - Dave

--- In citrusmodeling@..., Gary <ralstonvalley1@y...>
wrote:

All,
Does anyone have photos of the packing house on the SP main track

just off of Barton Road in West Redlands? This was at the west
entrance to San Timateo Canyon.

Jim Landcaster's packing house site
() does not yet have photos
for Redlands, however, I know these are planned. I've avoided
exterior packing house photos for now because Jim has such a great
site.

The interior packing house photos on this site from the Library of
Congress apparently were taken at a Santa Fe-served packing house.
No other Redlands photos are on that site (I just checked again).

You may want to contact the Redlands Historical Society
() for help. I will be contacting every
historical society in a community that had packinging houses and/or
citrus groves to see what they can share with us but that will take
a bit of time.

Bob Chaparro
Owber-Moderator

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David-

I live a few miles from you so let me know when you want to go.

Bob Chaparro
Owner-Moderator
Mission Viejo, CA
949-770-5158

Has anybody been to the San Juan Capistrano historical Society

to

see what they have? they do have some old train pictures but I

have

no idea how extensive it is or how much they have on railroading

in

the early days of SJC. I'll be going there soon to look into what
they may have in anyone is interested?
David


--- In citrusmodeling@..., kapa@g... wrote:

Hi list,

I'm new to this list and want to introduce myself. Some people

on

this

list may know me already from the different Santa Fe list.

My name is Alain Kap and I live in Luxembourg, Europe. I'm

modeling

different Santa Fe locations and structures for my layout and my

modules,

some also for fun or challenge. As Southern California is one of

my main

places of interest, I cannot come by the citrus industry and its

related

facilities.

One project I'm in currently is the depot of Capistrano and its
surrounding buildings/industries etc. South of the depot is what

I

suppose

a packing house. I could not locate any information or picture

about what

kind of brand it packed (Sunkist or ????). On a photo I think to

see 2

reefers side by side. How was the track arrangement at the

packing

house,

siding, stub ended tracks. What did the packing house look like.

I

will

only need a track side shot as space considerations limit it to

a

half

relief building.

Packing Houses usually had large Signs of their brandnames

painted

on the

building. Are there any of these signs available that are

suitable

to

print out and apply to a model structure. I'm particularly

thinking of the

Sunkist sign.

Any help will be appreciated.

Alain KAP
Luxembourg

I have been living in San Juan Capistrano since 1968. I remember
the depot as two buildings, the main passenger building, a freight
house separated by a parking lot, There was a main track and a
siding that went in front of the depot. There were more orange
groves at that time than there are now, I think I remember a wind
machine or two and I think one may still be there, I'll look and
take a photo, smudge pots were also used. Just south of the depot
where the parking structure is now was a building being used as a
building supply company that caught firs in the 1970's. That
building reminded me that it could have been used as a packing house
at one time.

Has anybody been to the San Juan Capistrano historical Society to
see what they have? they do have some old train pictures but I have
no idea how extensive it is or how much they have on railroading in
the early days of SJC. I'll be going there soon to look into what
they may have in anyone is interested?
David


--- In citrusmodeling@..., kapa@g... wrote:

Hi list,

I'm new to this list and want to introduce myself. Some people on

this

list may know me already from the different Santa Fe list.

My name is Alain Kap and I live in Luxembourg, Europe. I'm modeling
different Santa Fe locations and structures for my layout and my

modules,

some also for fun or challenge. As Southern California is one of

my main

places of interest, I cannot come by the citrus industry and its

related

facilities.

One project I'm in currently is the depot of Capistrano and its
surrounding buildings/industries etc. South of the depot is what I

suppose

a packing house. I could not locate any information or picture

about what

kind of brand it packed (Sunkist or ????). On a photo I think to

see 2

reefers side by side. How was the track arrangement at the packing

house,

siding, stub ended tracks. What did the packing house look like. I

will

only need a track side shot as space considerations limit it to a

half

relief building.

Packing Houses usually had large Signs of their brandnames painted

on the

building. Are there any of these signs available that are suitable

to

print out and apply to a model structure. I'm particularly

thinking of the

Sunkist sign.

Any help will be appreciated.

Alain KAP
Luxembourg

I have the following data from a California agriculture publication
from the 1950s which I converted to HO scale measurements:

Full Size HO
Feet Inches
Tree Spacing, Rows 22 3.03
Tree Spacing, Within Rows 20 2.76

In addition I ran across the following:


Citrus Tree Spacing
June 1994
D.P.H. Tucker, T.A. Wheaton and R. P. Muraro

SPACING AND LAND USAGE
There is a worldwide trend in citrus culture
toward higher density plantings encompassing a wide
assortment of variety/rootstock and tree spacing
combinations. Over the past two decades in Florida
there has been an increased level of interest in
establishing more trees per acre in higher density
plantings. The average spacing between rows of
about 25 ft has remained relatively constant since
1900 (Figure 1). Spacing in the row, however,
decreased gradually during the first half century, and
then more abruptly with the extensive new plantings
of the 1960's. This trend has continued with an
average spacing for oranges planted in 1987 of 25.9 ft
between rows and 14.6 ft in the row, providing 115
trees per acre. The move toward higher planting
densities was partially the result of an intensified
constraints on growers of tree crops due to reduced
land and water availability, more stringent land use
regulations, the desire for earlier economic return on
investment and a need for increased management
efficiency.
Most of what was considered the most suitable
citrus land located in the north and central ridge
areas on deep, well-drained sandy soils had already
been planted and was in production prior to the
freezes of the 1980's. As such land became less
available and the freezes of 1962, 1983, 1985 and 1989
severely damaged or killed citrus in these areas, many
new plantings were established in south central,
southwest and east coast locations with predominantly
shallow, poorly drained soils. Contrary to early
thinking, citrus grew and produced well with good
drainage and irrigation management.

--- In citrusmodeling@..., "Garth Ponsonby"
<g_ponsonby@y...> wrote:

Hi,

A question from the UK, please.

I am modelling an orange grove next to a Santa Fe line in Southern
California, but need some info on how the trees were planted in

the

1950s and 1960s. Seems to me from photos there were at least two
different methods:

1. close together with no grass between, and no room for tractors
with
trailers.

2. relatively wide apart, often grass between trees, and

sufficient

room for vehicles.

Are there any other variations, and which is most representative?

TIA.

Garth Ponsonby
UK

Hi,

A question from the UK, please.

I am modelling an orange grove next to a Santa Fe line in Southern
California, but need some info on how the trees were planted in the
1950s and 1960s. Seems to me from photos there were at least two
different methods:

1. close together with no grass between, and no room for tractors
with
trailers.

2. relatively wide apart, often grass between trees, and sufficient
room for vehicles.

Are there any other variations, and which is most representative?

TIA.

Garth Ponsonby
UK

I'd rather not expand the group's scope beyond Southern California
and the three major railroads (plus PE) that served the local
industry.

I would be happy to share anything I have or come across with anyone
doing a Florida or Texas citrus group.

Bob Chaparro
Owner-Moderator

--- In citrusmodeling@..., "Ben Woelk" <fbw1957@h...>
wrote:

Any thought to extending the scope to Florida citrus operations

such

as Tropicana?

Ben
Fairport, NY (Florida native)

These drawings appeared in the "Built In America" section of their
files. A search on their site using "National Orange Packing" took
me right to it.

Good luck.

Bob Chaparro
Owner-Moderator

--- In citrusmodeling@..., pepperkay@a... wrote:

Hi Jim:

Under what section of the American Memory site from the Library of

Congress

did you find the photos and track diagrams for the packing

house ?? ...

Thanks,

Pepper

Any thought to extending the scope to Florida citrus operations such
as Tropicana?

Ben
Fairport, NY (Florida native)

Is it appropriate to discuss ATSF reefers on this list?

Glad to see you with us.

Discussions on these reefers (or PFE for that matter) are quite
appropriate for this group.

Yahoo has several Santa Fe, SP and UP groups which would be better
places for discussions of other types of cars, plus this group's
links include links to the historical societies for these railroads.

Bob Chaparro
Owner-Moderator.

Paul-

This model and an image are featured in this group's files section
on the "Models and > Supplies" list. This list takes a bit of time
to download due to the images so be patient.

I will say the footprint is quite large. The Library of Congress
website has drawings of this structure and you can calculate the
scale footprint of the building from the drawings.

And thanks again for that wonderful presentation on the railroads
last September at the PSR Cobvention in Glendale.

Bob Chaparro
Group Owner & Moderator
(also PSR/NMRA Layout Coordinator)