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Phylogeography update: R-Z18


 

Hi all,

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I've pushed out the latest update to my for R-U106. As well as the R-U106 basal clades, it now includes the migrations of R-Z18 and its sub-clades.

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The key geographical split of R-Z18 is between the Nordic countries (particularly Norway and Sweden) and the Alpine countries (particularly Switzerland and Slovakia). This geography is unique to R-Z18 among all R-U106 sub-clades. Looking at homogeneity and heterogeneity in individual R-Z18 sub-clades, I've deduced that R-Z18 did not begin in either of these extremes, but probably somewhere in the middle. I've assumed an origin and initial growth in the southern end of the Nordic Bronze Age and dated the subsequent migrations north and south to the rise of the Germanic peoples. That is not to say that all R-Z18 were Germanic, but that the majority seem to be. The Jastorf culture probably plays a significant role in the growth of R-Z18, but I've not been able to pin that role down precisely.

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See the document for full details and information about individual haplogroups. Much of it is necessarily either speculative or imprecise, as this is really getting as much as we can out of the data. Don't expect a lot of the detail to be accurate or unchanging in the future, and there may well be different explanations that I haven't thought of that fit the data better than the understanding I've been able to build up.

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This represents the last chunk I was able to get done over the Christmas holidays. I'm expecting the next chunk will take me some time.

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All the best,

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Iain.


 

Many thanks, Iain.
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I was very happy to see the sub-section R-Z18>FGC5817, being a descendant.
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Re: your comment in that sub-section about the Israeli tester. The same kit number appears on Alex Williamson's Y Tree with a Danish flag and surname.
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Jeremy?


 

Thank you for this incredible work, Iain

On Thursday, January 23, 2025 at 02:30:02 PM CST, Iain via groups.io <gubbins@...> wrote:


Hi all,

?

I've pushed out the latest update to my for R-U106. As well as the R-U106 basal clades, it now includes the migrations of R-Z18 and its sub-clades.

?

The key geographical split of R-Z18 is between the Nordic countries (particularly Norway and Sweden) and the Alpine countries (particularly Switzerland and Slovakia). This geography is unique to R-Z18 among all R-U106 sub-clades. Looking at homogeneity and heterogeneity in individual R-Z18 sub-clades, I've deduced that R-Z18 did not begin in either of these extremes, but probably somewhere in the middle. I've assumed an origin and initial growth in the southern end of the Nordic Bronze Age and dated the subsequent migrations north and south to the rise of the Germanic peoples. That is not to say that all R-Z18 were Germanic, but that the majority seem to be. The Jastorf culture probably plays a significant role in the growth of R-Z18, but I've not been able to pin that role down precisely.

?

See the document for full details and information about individual haplogroups. Much of it is necessarily either speculative or imprecise, as this is really getting as much as we can out of the data. Don't expect a lot of the detail to be accurate or unchanging in the future, and there may well be different explanations that I haven't thought of that fit the data better than the understanding I've been able to build up.

?

This represents the last chunk I was able to get done over the Christmas holidays. I'm expecting the next chunk will take me some time.

?

All the best,

?

Iain.


 

Thank you very much Ian for this update.??
Re R-Z18 in Slovakia the testers might be descendants of the German settlers from Middle Ages.


 

Re., Slovakian testers - the evidence for exactly when these individual families arrived in Slovakia is very scarce. We simple don't have enough testers to make this clear in most cases. Some could be very recent, others much older. The clearest example is the specific case of , which shows at the very latest an arrival in Slovakia around 1000 years ago, but probably these Slovakian testers descend from a migration towards that general area that is much older.

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- Iain.


 

As others have said, Iain, thank you very much for the time and effort you¡¯ve put into this. I¡¯m one of the three closely related Polish-origin testers under R-FT60052. I, too, get the sense that this is a ¡®continental¡¯ branch of Z17 (and thus Z18). The numbers you provided helped me understand just how few of us non-Z372 folks exist among Z17+. Unless there is a large untested cache of FT60052+ men somewhere in Eastern Europe, it appears this line is trending toward extinction.

- Mark