#8148

I needed a project to re-teach myself Excel.? ?I used to be pretty good at Excel but that was 15 years ago and I have not really touched it for the last 10 years.

For my re-teaching "moment".....hopefully of interest to some people......
I have captured all the STRs in the U106 project.? ? I then calculated how many of each number for each of the 111 STRs (except the multicopy STRs).

example, the first STR, DYS393

Total 7240

11	2
12	192
13	6659
14	338
15	49

There are several Basement Subgroups at the end of the Classic or Colorized results, a few of which are not very U106ish.? ?At this point, I have kept them in the stats, as on my preliminary effort, I wanted to stay as near as possible to the original totals for each STR.

btw, the totals of each level (approximately)
Y12? ?7240
Y25? ?7151
Y37? ?7093
Y67? ?6187
Y111 4976

I also did a subset of the Blue groups, Z30 and Z8 (combined).? Groups 65 to 99.

The attached Excel files are the summaries.? They do not contain the 7000 plus rows of STR data.

U106 STR distribution.xlsx

Z30 Z8 Blue STRs distribution.xlsx

#8149

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Thanks Martin.

And I’m glad you included the ZERO counts.? On my leg of U106, we our all DYS425=0, which evidently formed about 1500BCE with Z326 haplogroup.

But that ZERO itself doesn’t tell the actual story (at least as regards DYS425).? I tested my father’s sample at YSEQ for DYF371X (DYS425 is a subset) and it appears that my father and I are DYS425=10c

Our sample: DYF371X 10c-10c-13c-14c

Most common DYF371 haplotype in R1b is 10c-12t-13c-14c

You see, Y67/111/etc. DYS425 only reports a STR count if the repeats are type “T” --- if instead it flipped to “C” at some point, the test does not read or report it.

Of the 297 “Zero” samples for DYS425 in the database, I’d guess that most or all of them have repeats that are “12c”, “11c” or “10c”.

We are currently testing 3 more samples in our tree for DYF371X---one with MRCA at about 500ybp, another at perhaps 1000ybp and another at about 1500ybp.

Since we see a few DYS425=12 in our Project (Cecil-Cessill), I suspect that the change that happened around Z326 simply flipped from 12t to 12c, then over time on our part of the tree mutated further to 11c, then 10c.? Or maybe some other scenarios…

?

If any of you are also under Z326 and see a DYS425=0, you might also consider testing for DYF371X.

There are 10x more DYS425=0 than any other result except CYS425=12, which is about 16x the number who have zero as the result.

For sure, the STR difference counts reported for sample comparisons under Z326 are ignoring any mutations at DYS425 unless they backmutate to “t”.

This means that while we might think we have a GD:1 match at Y67 with someone, the actual number could be GD:2, it’s just that that second one is masked by this ZERO.

Not all zeroes are the same…

?

Thanks!

?

-Myles

?

Show quoted text

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Martin Abrams via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2024 9:04 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [R1b-U106] Y111 STR counts for U106

?

I needed a project to re-teach myself Excel.? ?I used to be pretty good at Excel but that was 15 years ago and I have not really touched it for the last 10 years.

For my re-teaching "moment".....hopefully of interest to some people......
I have captured all the STRs in the U106 project.? ? I then calculated how many of each number for each of the 111 STRs (except the multicopy STRs).

example, the first STR, DYS393

Total 7240

11	2
12	192
13	6659
14	338
15	49

There are several Basement Subgroups at the end of the Classic or Colorized results, a few of which are not very U106ish.? ?At this point, I have kept them in the stats, as on my preliminary effort, I wanted to stay as near as possible to the original totals for each STR.

btw, the totals of each level (approximately)
Y12? ?7240
Y25? ?7151
Y37? ?7093
Y67? ?6187
Y111 4976

I also did a subset of the Blue groups, Z30 and Z8 (combined).? Groups 65 to 99.

The attached Excel files are the summaries.? They do not contain the 7000 plus rows of STR data.

#8150

Thank you, Martin, for sharing this.

I went through and put in my own STRs, found those values where my numbers were not common, and finally compared those results with a my BigY matches using the information on a couple of project sites. In the end, the 10 testers you identified with a value of 16 at DYS532 seem to all be positive for R-S3997. This seems to be a unique value we share in contrast to others who fall under U106.

I'm not sure that really means much, but I found it interesting none the less.

Ed

#8151

Way back in ancient DNA times DYF371X results did appear to support some branching under Z326.? Overlaying DYF371X results on top of the current branch structure would be an interesting exercise.? I also wonder if in some of the well tested lines such as Cecil if relevant DYS371X branching is observed.? I have not done DYF371X across my broad paternal line.

Wayne

On Monday, July 1, 2024 at 12:51:05 PM EDT, Myles Twete <matwete@...> wrote:

Thanks Martin.

And I’m glad you included the ZERO counts.? On my leg of U106, we our all DYS425=0, which evidently formed about 1500BCE with Z326 haplogroup.

But that ZERO itself doesn’t tell the actual story (at least as regards DYS425).? I tested my father’s sample at YSEQ for DYF371X (DYS425 is a subset) and it appears that my father and I are DYS425=10c

Our sample: DYF371X 10c-10c-13c-14c

Most common DYF371 haplotype in R1b is 10c-12t-13c-14c

You see, Y67/111/etc. DYS425 only reports a STR count if the repeats are type “T” --- if instead it flipped to “C” at some point, the test does not read or report it.

Of the 297 “Zero” samples for DYS425 in the database, I’d guess that most or all of them have repeats that are “12c”, “11c” or “10c”.

We are currently testing 3 more samples in our tree for DYF371X---one with MRCA at about 500ybp, another at perhaps 1000ybp and another at about 1500ybp.

Since we see a few DYS425=12 in our Project (Cecil-Cessill), I suspect that the change that happened around Z326 simply flipped from 12t to 12c, then over time on our part of the tree mutated further to 11c, then 10c.? Or maybe some other scenarios…

?

If any of you are also under Z326 and see a DYS425=0, you might also consider testing for DYF371X.

There are 10x more DYS425=0 than any other result except CYS425=12, which is about 16x the number who have zero as the result.

For sure, the STR difference counts reported for sample comparisons under Z326 are ignoring any mutations at DYS425 unless they backmutate to “t”.

This means that while we might think we have a GD:1 match at Y67 with someone, the actual number could be GD:2, it’s just that that second one is masked by this ZERO.

Not all zeroes are the same…

?

Thanks!

?

-Myles

?

Show quoted text

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Martin Abrams via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2024 9:04 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [R1b-U106] Y111 STR counts for U106

?

I needed a project to re-teach myself Excel.? ?I used to be pretty good at Excel but that was 15 years ago and I have not really touched it for the last 10 years.

For my re-teaching "moment".....hopefully of interest to some people......
I have captured all the STRs in the U106 project.? ? I then calculated how many of each number for each of the 111 STRs (except the multicopy STRs).

example, the first STR, DYS393

Total 7240

11	2
12	192
13	6659
14	338
15	49

There are several Basement Subgroups at the end of the Classic or Colorized results, a few of which are not very U106ish.? ?At this point, I have kept them in the stats, as on my preliminary effort, I wanted to stay as near as possible to the original totals for each STR.

btw, the totals of each level (approximately)
Y12? ?7240
Y25? ?7151
Y37? ?7093
Y67? ?6187
Y111 4976

I also did a subset of the Blue groups, Z30 and Z8 (combined).? Groups 65 to 99.

The attached Excel files are the summaries.? They do not contain the 7000 plus rows of STR data.

#8152

It's been very interesting to look at the STR frequencies.?

I have over 5000 matches at Y12 but only a few at Y37 (other than several known Y 5th cousins).? ?I've wondered why the steep decline and from the frequencies I can see why.

I extracted a subset of frequencies for R-S1774, which is below Z30>Z8.? Group 77B.? ?99 men in this sample

I have no unusual markers in the first 12.? ?And only one in the first 25.? But from STRs 26 to 37, I get hammered.? ?Out of the 10 single copy markers, I have three low frequency markers, two of which are very low (IMO).? ?

The following is based upon the frequencies of the R-S1774 haplotypes (group 77B).? ?

DYS437? ? My value occurs only 3 times out of 99? ?(Y25 group)
Y-GATA-H4? ? My value occurs only 4 times out of 99
DYS456? ? My value occurs 18 times out of 99
DYS570? ? My value occurs 8 times out of 99

In addition, my pair of values for multi marker CDY, have a frequency of approximately 1 in 10 (for the whole U106 database).? Same 1 in 10 frequency for the 4 values for DYS464.? ??

By the time I go through the first 37 markers, I already have 6 low frequency values.? ?Sets up a challenge for matching.??

My STRs from 38 to 111 are less volatile.? Only 4 markers out of the norm.? ?Sometimes, I get matches at Y67 and Y111 from men who are AWOL at Y37.

Three out of the six low frequency values were flagged by FTDNA as red fast-moving markers.

This has been a good exercise in Excel.? ?I don't mean to imply that any of the above supersedes BigY SNP testing.